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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2014/12/31

Timezone: UTC


23:28
jucar
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00:06
troy_s
Bertl: Greets H.
00:06
Bertl
hey troy_s! how's going?
00:07
troy_s
Bertl: It moves.
00:07
troy_s
Bertl: You?
00:08
Bertl
I'm fine. Lot of work to do but it's still fun and things are progressing
00:10
troy_s
Bertl: What was the recent call for EVFs?
00:10
troy_s
Bertl: And why?
00:10
troy_s
Bertl: Would it not be more productive to sample the higher quality ones that come kit on the higher end cameras and use a quality onboard for the demos?
00:10
Bertl
I think se6astian is considering to buy one for the next AXIOM, but I'm not sure
00:11
Bertl
probably because many folks asked about a quality view finder in regard to the Beta/Gamma
00:11
Bertl
but it doesn't hurt to investigate the options there
00:12
troy_s
Well they are all pretty much junk but obviously depends on one's version of quality.
00:12
troy_s
If it is color and contrast, then yes, all junk.
00:12
troy_s
The highest quality onboards are generally lower resolution. EVFs tend to be weird even in the higher end cameras it seems.
00:12
Bertl
maybe suggest a bunch of "good ones" in your version of quality then?
00:13
troy_s
(Like cramming your head into a fisheye lens against an Oculus rift.)
00:13
troy_s
I threw two on the wiki for onboards.
00:13
troy_s
TV Logic was already there, and that is for certain a pretty typical onboard. (With Marshal)
00:13
troy_s
SmallHD has gained a rather large foothold of late due to their customer support it seems.
00:13
troy_s
And the OLED panel is very solid.
00:14
troy_s
And there is a Sony Trimaster EL which ... well I'm sure it is a fortune.
00:14
troy_s
(Their 17" Trimaster ELs were 30000 not too long ago. Probably less than half of that today.)
00:21
Bertl
yeah, I'm pretty sure we won't spend 30k on a view finder, I consider it unlikely we will spend 15k either
00:22
Bertl
but yes, I can imagine that the sky is the limit there
00:23
troy_s
Bertl: To be honest, the SmallHD OLED is a really solid display
00:23
troy_s
they cover the reasons why the panels aren't higher res (Spoiler: Gamut)
00:24
troy_s
But with a profiled little display and a GOOD (read not lprof) profile for the camera, it would probably be a helluva tandem.
00:24
troy_s
If you had to do a presentation, then perhaps consider renting a Trimaster as it has hardware based LUTs and such and really is an amazing display.
00:33
troy_s
Bertl: What was the hertz rate for operating latency on the display?
00:33
troy_s
40ish hz?
00:34
Bertl
on the alpha the delay is about a frame
00:34
Bertl
so depending on the frame rate (up to 60FPS in theory)
00:34
Bertl
or do you really mean the display (as in the panel)?
00:35
troy_s
Bertl: I remember you quantifying the threshold for latency before it becomes an operator problem.
00:35
troy_s
I cannot recall the exact number.
00:35
Bertl
ah, yes, I cannot remember either, but we can look it up in the logs
00:37
troy_s
Bertl: I seem to recall you saying something like 40 hertz being a threshold. But I may be well off.
00:39
Bertl
20th of November
00:39
troy_s
LOL
00:39
troy_s
You creep me out.
00:39
Bertl
2013 of course :)
00:40
troy_s
Your Fu with scripts and graphing and god knows what freaks me out in a sort of scary way.
00:40
troy_s
It really does.
00:40
troy_s
I bet you are a regex wizard too. Those types really freak me out.
00:40
troy_s
Where bash becomes a sort of stream-of-consciousness coding environment.
00:41
Bertl
hey cool, we have a funny bug on the irc log history
00:41
Bertl
October 2013 is listed twice
00:43
Bertl
http://irc.apertus.org/index.php?day=20&month=11&year=2013
00:43
Bertl
not the only one btw, but this was the initial "zero latency" discussion
00:45
Bertl
I've specialized in reindeer pullover style sed expressions :)
00:46
Bertl
something like s/\/\//\/-\//g
00:48
intracube
Bertl: yep, irc log only shows months with 31 days
00:48
Bertl
could you file a bug report on the lab please?
00:49
intracube
sure
00:49
Bertl
assign it to se6astian. thanks a bunch!
00:59
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01:00
lab-bot
intracube created T239: IRC log has duplicate and missing months. http://lab.apertus.org/T239
01:03
fsteinel_
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01:06
troy_s
Bertl: What was the hertz you deduced?
01:54
Bertl
can't tell, but it was about at least one frame in a 60FPS setup
01:55
Bertl
so let's assume the 40HZ you remember
01:56
Bertl
I think even a 30FPS one frame delay cannot be detected easily
02:05
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02:56
troy_s
Bertl: That's odd. I know some operators complain with a single frame at 24/25, but that is a little slower than 1/30 of course.
02:57
Bertl
and I think that is an additional frame
02:57
Bertl
i.e. we are probably talking about more than a frame (maybe even two frames) from the actual scene/reality
02:58
Bertl
but I'm sure we can test this out with the Beta
02:59
troy_s
Bertl: I know it is ridiculously low from real-world experience. It is 'just enough' to throw an operator off.
02:59
troy_s
Happens more frequently than many would like.
02:59
Bertl
at least with some HDMI monitor at high frame rates we can go up to 120Hz with only a single frame delay and then increase the delay artificially
02:59
troy_s
Mostly on long distance transmits to remote head stations. Some aren't quite great.
03:01
Bertl
whenever you have digital equippment in the "path" you most likely get significant delay, because of implicit conversion, ertc
03:01
Bertl
but as I said, we will be able to test this out with the Beta
03:22
Bertl
anyway, off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
03:22
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
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10:52
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
10:52
Bertl_oO
morning folks!
10:53
mars_
morning bertl
10:57
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
10:58
se6astian
good day
11:36
intracube
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surami
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surami
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12:24
lab-bot
sebastian closed T239: IRC log has duplicate and missing months as "Resolved". http://lab.apertus.org/T239
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13:04
daFred
what do you think about this HDMI adapter for smartphone displays: http://hackaday.io/project/364-mipi-dsi-display-shieldhdmi-adapter
13:07
se6astian
looks like a very nice hack project
13:07
se6astian
for a camera monitor I would consider it too much work and unknowns (like enclosure, power supply, etc.)
13:11
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13:15
daFred
I was asking because I have changed the display of my old nexus 4 and the displays are very good quality and cheap ($40 for 1280x768) an IPhone 4 display is about $15...
13:20
se6astian
can you buy these in higher quantities?
13:21
se6astian
would be interesting for potentially building our own LCD in the future
13:32
daFred
I'll get in contact with the developer. Maybe adafruit or sparkfun can get involved or we could produce it ourselves...
13:33
se6astian
lets keep it in mind for when the time comes
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18:04
lab-bot
philippej reopened T239: IRC log has duplicate and missing months as "Open". http://lab.apertus.org/T239
19:33
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20:12
lab-bot
sebastian closed T239: IRC log has duplicate and missing months as "Resolved". http://lab.apertus.org/T239
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22:00
Bertl_oO
Happy New Year from Austria!
22:00
davidak
Happy New Year from Germany!
22:09
comradekingu
Godt nyttår :)
22:13
troy_s
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