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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2015/12/30

Timezone: UTC


00:22
troy_s
Okie. Thanks Bertl_oO .
00:23
troy_s
philippej: ^^. I will also create a task.
00:28
pozitrono
left the channel
00:29
troy_s
Apparently I have progress!
00:30
Bertl_oO
don't let it get too far :)
00:36
troy_s
It didn't. I mashed buttons and got three email verifications, but now when I add my original email it stalls out again.
00:36
troy_s
Ugh.
00:37
Bertl_oO
you sure your "original" email is not filtering the messages out as spam or something like that?
00:41
ar
3r/37
00:41
ar
sorry
00:41
Bertl_oO
no problem, nice to hear from you ar!
00:41
ar
n/p
00:42
ar
the one thing i'm actually interested now is a full-frame still-photo camera
00:42
ar
but i'm not sure if such sensors are available and suitable for your project
00:42
Bertl_oO
the CMV20k is a full frame sensor
00:46
ar
Bertl_oO: it's not listed at http://apertus.org/axiom-beta-imagesensors, right?
00:47
Bertl_oO
correct, but we have been investigating it and a sensor frontend would be possible
00:48
Bertl_oO
http://www.cmosis.com/assets/generate-single-pdfs.php?products=cmv20000
00:51
ar
specs look fine, as long as my totally lame eye is concerned
00:52
ar
i'll need to get a second look when not drunk (i'm at the warsaw hackerspace assembly at 32c3 now and i just finished another long island)
01:13
morethink
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01:13
morethink
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01:16
morethink
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01:16
Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
01:16
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
01:53
intracube
the cmv20000 is 4:3 format which makes me think super35 dimensions
01:54
intracube
so similar to the cmv12000 but higher pixel count?
01:54
intracube
and not FF 35mm still format (3:2 aspect)
01:55
intracube
odd that Cmosis don't just list the width/height on the spec sheet
02:33
morethink
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02:51
troy_s
intracube: Square aspect
02:51
troy_s
intracube: On the sensel sites I suspect, so you should be able to deduce the dimensions
03:22
morethink
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03:49
morethink
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04:24
morethink
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04:52
morethink
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04:58
pozitron
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05:02
morethink
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05:17
morethink
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05:27
morethink
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05:32
morethink
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06:52
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
06:52
Bertl
morning folks!
07:10
alexML
morning
07:18
troy_s
Morning all.
07:21
troy_s
Ffffffff
07:23
Bertl
2^32-1
08:35
troy_s
Bertl: Smart ass.
08:36
troy_s
OK. One earthquake per year is enough. Good night.
08:42
Bertl
nn
08:49
Guest18375
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09:29
pozitron
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09:41
LordVan
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10:07
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
10:08
se6astian
good morning
10:08
Bertl
morning se6astian!
10:29
aombk2
oh great, the couch video is out
10:30
se6astian
yes :)
10:32
Bertl
good that it wasn't delayed much :)
10:32
se6astian
they claimed they were just waiting for the perfect moment to release it :P
10:35
aombk2
heh
10:56
aombk2
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11:15
Diggi
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11:30
danieel
ar: 12bit and 41dB SNR is very poor for stills camera, the architecture of cmosis is not optimized for that (GS only, 12 bit max)
11:30
Diggi
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11:37
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
11:37
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
11:48
pozitrono
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12:19
ar
danieel: thanks
14:34
mimi
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14:34
mimi
dear all from apertus, is someone from you still at 32c3 congress?
14:36
se6astian
I think matthias is still there
14:36
se6astian
pmed you his email address
14:36
mimi
until when? If I find time between the talks I'd like to visit you
14:36
mimi
thanks a lot
14:37
mimi
I'd just like to see the camera in real :)
14:44
se6astian
great, just email him, I have no idea how lon he will stay
14:44
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
14:54
mimi
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15:01
DoomRainer
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15:39
parasew
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15:42
parasew
hi i am still at the congress today, in case somebody wants to meet up best would be at 17:45 or 20:00 at the crypto bar (in front of saal g)
15:44
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
15:46
parasew
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16:19
LordVan
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16:20
Mined
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16:21
Mined
Looking at one of your speeches on YouTube
16:21
Mined
Awesome project
16:34
pozitrono
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16:43
arpu
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16:47
se6astian
Mined: thanks, let us know if you have any questions
16:51
aombk2
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16:53
aombk2
se6astian, i was worrying you may come out as hostile but you did good on that couch interview. nice :)
16:57
tyrone
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16:57
tyrone
hi all...
16:59
aombk2
hi tyrone
17:02
aombk2
changed nick to: aombk
17:03
aombk
changed nick to: aombk2
17:03
tyrone
is sebastian active? or are all in party mode :-)
17:03
DoomRainer
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17:03
tyrone
it's quiet....
17:04
Bertl_oO
is that so? :)
17:08
_tyrone
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17:09
_tyrone
ohh the dev master is active :-)
17:10
tyrone
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17:17
se6astian
we are always having a party in here
17:17
se6astian
aombk2: thanks, I wasnt sure how exactly it would look from the outside as well :)
17:26
aombk2
Bertl_oO, when will we see you in a debate?
17:29
Bertl_oO
whenever there is something technical to discuss :)
17:32
_tyrone
nice to hear :-)
18:24
John_K
@se6astian @Bertl_oO: is there an easy way to trace where the different voltage domains (NW/NN/NE) go to on the different boards?
18:25
John_K
trying to make sure I put the right pots on the right LDO
18:53
Bertl_oO
yes, the schematic for the sensor board explains which voltage is what
18:54
Bertl_oO
(for the sensor) including the proper ranges
18:54
Bertl_oO
http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/BETA/axiom_beta_sensor_cmv12000_zif_v0.18_r1.2.pdf
19:14
gunnar
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19:30
Bertl_oO
hello gunnar!
20:08
gunnar
Hi, good evening, Bertl
20:10
gunnar
(Sorry for the delay, I was watching your 32C3 presentation, and then went astray on your website)
20:12
Bertl_oO
no problem, IRC is perfectly fine with long delays
20:14
pozitron
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20:15
gunnar
Would it be technically feasible to use alternating, different exposure times with the Axiom Beta? (I'm thinking of an exposure stack needed for HDR)
20:15
Bertl_oO
sure, why not?
20:16
Bertl_oO
the CMV12k also supports two HDR modes natively
20:17
gunnar
*searching for CMV12k*
20:18
gunnar
Is the CMV12k the sensor used in the Beta?
20:18
Bertl_oO
yep, the k is for thousand, i.e. the sensor is called CMV12000
20:19
Bertl_oO
https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/alpha-hardware/blob/master/Datasheets/datasheet_CMV12000%20v1.12.pdf
20:19
gunnar
So I should RTFM, (and thanks for the link, you beat me...)
20:19
Bertl_oO
it's a slightly older datasheet, but it has the relevant parts
20:20
Bertl_oO
you can get a newer one from cmosis without any problems (i.e. no NDA)
20:21
gunnar
That's rare (the _without NDA_ part) , and very positive. Will look into it right now
20:22
Bertl_oO
it is one of the reasons we are using the cmosis sensors
20:22
Bertl_oO
no point in doing FOSS/OH with an undocumented sensor :)
20:25
Bertl_oO
chapter 5.3 are the HDR modes
20:25
gunnar
page 32, just reading it....
20:26
se6astian
latest datasheet is actually here: https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/beta-hardware/tree/master/Datasheets
20:26
gunnar
CMV12k even supports linewise interleaved exposure times, sweet...
20:26
se6astian
CMV12000 has version 1 (150 FPS) and version 2 (300 FPS) other than that the datasheets should be similar/identical
20:27
aombk2
left the channel
20:27
gunnar
Do you use 8, 10 or 12 bit output, or do you plan to make this user selectable?
20:30
se6astian
12bit currently
20:30
se6astian
user selectable would be prefered at some point in the future
20:32
gunnar
12 bit is probably the best choice for now, I agree, and probably one of the main difficulties is to level feature requests versus implementation manpower....
20:33
gunnar
So, did you do a signal / noise calculation on the 12 bits? How many bits "hold", how much frame-by-frame noise is there, roughly?
20:37
se6astian
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11787.msg129672#msg129672
20:43
gunnar
You guys are amazingly helpful, thanks, will be reading a while...
20:48
se6astian
you are welcome :)
21:26
tyrone
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21:28
troy_s
How goes it se6astian ?
21:28
troy_s
irieger: You have been MIA for a bit. Awaiting your return.
21:29
se6astian
good good, thanks :)
21:29
_tyrone
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21:45
pozitron
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22:00
ar
se6astian: 12bit is all available color space, or 12bit/channel?
22:02
se6astian
bayer pattern
22:02
se6astian
12bit per channel
22:12
troy_s
Bit depth is not a colour space.
22:15
baldand
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baldand
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22:23
baldand
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22:24
baldand
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22:24
gunnar
Read the 11-page thread, and A1ex's improvements to FPN, and it seems that there is still room for improvement. Just a silly thought: Since FPN might also be affected by Vcc filtering, and I seem to spot a FPGA directly on the "Main Board", are you sure you are filtering Vcc and keeping Vcc of the Sensor and Vcc of the FPGA as separated as possible?
22:25
gunnar
To be honest, I just drew my assumptions from a picture of the "Main Board", and did not look yet at any PCB layout files.
22:26
gunnar
And I hop I do not insult you, Bertl....
22:26
gunnar
*hope
22:47
gunnar
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22:51
baldand
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baldand
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22:54
aombk
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22:54
aombk
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23:28
se6astian
going to bed
23:28
se6astian
I am sure Bertl will be able to answer your question gunnar
23:30
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
23:33
Bertl_oO
@gunnar no problem with constructive criticism here ...
23:34
Bertl_oO
regarding the FPN part, an insufficient filtering or noise on VCC would result in dynamic noise on the sensor
23:34
Bertl_oO
FPN is something systematic which is tied to the sensor acquisition in some way
23:35
Bertl_oO
regarding the FPGA, we have two on the mainboard actually, but they use completely different supply rails than the sensor, so the crosstalk should be minimal
23:36
aombk2
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aombk
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23:47
aombk
changed nick to: aombk2
23:47
aombk2
hey Bertl_oO are you there?
23:48
Bertl_oO
kind of ...
23:49
aombk2
interesting
23:50
aombk2
so i wanted to ask, is there a possibility after all is complete to make any module for a lower end tiny sensor?
23:50
Bertl_oO
sure, you "just" have to replace the sensor frontend PCB by your own design
23:51
Bertl_oO
we will probably give a template to start from, but for now you can simply use the CMV12k one and get rid of everything CMV12k specific you don't need
23:52
aombk2
you dont plan designing more PCBs in the future
23:52
aombk2
?
23:52
Bertl_oO
we plan to do PCBs for the CMV2/4k and the KAC
23:53
aombk2
yes i know about that
23:53
Bertl_oO
if there will be "interesting" and well documented sensors available, we will do frontends for those as well
23:55
aombk2
great. i think at some point a small sensor for macro photography / videography would be useful