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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2016/01/30

Timezone: UTC


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Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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Bertl_oO
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Bertl_zZ
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06:41
Bertl
morning folks!
06:54
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
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Bertl
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se6astian|away
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se6astian
good day
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intracube
afternoon :)
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12:51
se6astian
first 3d print tests of simple enclosure
12:51
se6astian
https://twitter.com/ApertusOSCinema/status/693426610301698048
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14:03
intracube
se6astian: this is experimental right?
14:03
intracube
beta cases will still be cnc milled?
14:04
intracube
nvm
14:04
intracube
has just read the roadmap
15:07
se6astian
:)
15:08
se6astian
more details in next teamtalk
15:08
se6astian
we already have a full enclosure design in CAD
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se6astian
gotta go
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15:42
jjshawver_
hey Bertl
15:42
jjshawver_
do you guys have any documentation anywhere on getting started with the FPGA stuff you have?
15:42
jjshawver_
found the git repo, but it's a flat hierarchy without test benches that I noticed
15:46
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl
15:46
Bertl
hey jjshawver_!
15:47
Bertl
the most recent source can be found here: http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/BETA/cmv_hdmi3/
15:47
Bertl
still there is no documentation or test benches, because when the software was developed (for the alpha) there was not much time for that
15:48
jjshawver_
that makes sense.
15:48
jjshawver_
any starting projects?
15:48
Bertl
well, basically the entire firmware needs an overhaul/rewrite
15:49
jjshawver_
gotcha. probably a good time to swap to automake and the git repo?
15:49
Bertl
there are a bunch of ideas (what we learned from the current version)
15:49
jjshawver_
very cool
15:50
Bertl
yes, no problem with that, although I don't see how automake would help much, but please elaborate ...
15:50
jjshawver_
just nice for bundling things. especially if you utilize makefiles
15:50
jjshawver_
assuming your firmware was more than vhdl. probably c, or a linux environment etc
15:51
jjshawver_
automake can handle the dependecies and get you an initial setup so that people can get started really easily
15:51
Bertl
ah, you are talking different parts, not just the firmware blob
15:51
jjshawver_
aka, with automake you can create rpms, deb files etc
15:51
Bertl
yes, I'm aware of the automake capabilities
15:52
Bertl
anyway, as I said, no problem with that
15:52
Bertl
I can check in the latest version (if I haven't already) to github
15:52
jjshawver_
ok cool. is the firmware somewhere else then?
15:52
Bertl
let me check
15:53
Bertl
ah, https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/beta-software/tree/master/cmv_hdmi3 seems to be "up-to-date"
15:54
Bertl
so you can use that to work with (regarding firmware)
15:54
jjshawver_
ok cool. does vivado dump out a block diagram or anything like that?
15:54
jjshawver_
looking for an overall idea of what's going on first, and then to dive in at the block level as needed
15:55
Bertl
there are options for schematic and similar in vivado, but as the cmv_hdmi3 does not work at the "IP" level but on the "VHDL" level I don't think there is anything useable
15:55
Bertl
but I can give you a quick rundown what does what
15:56
jjshawver_
yeah. I wasn't really meaning "schematic capture"
15:56
jjshawver_
more so just the top level documentation
15:56
jjshawver_
verdi (an expensive tool) generates one for you from the HDL code you use.
15:57
Bertl
yeah, well, we don't use expensive tools, all free (speech kind preferred :)
15:57
jjshawver_
the dvt plugin for eclipse looks pretty nice as well. although that can also be rather spendy 700 per seat
15:57
Bertl
https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/AXIOM_Alpha_Software
15:57
jjshawver_
makes sense
15:58
Bertl
there you can find the Pipelines
15:58
Bertl
basically the firmware works in two almost independant parts
15:58
jjshawver_
ok cool. that's a good start
15:58
jjshawver_
are all of the vhdl files shown at this level?
15:59
jjshawver_
assuming there's more
15:59
Bertl
an input pipeline which receives the images from the sensor, rearranges the data and bursts it into memory
15:59
Bertl
and an output pipeline which fetches the data from memory, combines and formats it and then outputs the data via HDMI
16:00
jjshawver_
ok. so a specific hardware DMA type of setup
16:00
jjshawver_
dual port DRAM i take it?
16:00
jjshawver_
or are you using a different type of memory?
16:00
Bertl
back then, on the Alpha we used a dedicated HDMI chip, on the Beta we do the HDMI output in the FPGA
16:00
Bertl
we are using the DDR memory on the Microzed
16:00
jjshawver_
ok cool. that makes sense
16:01
Bertl
and the PL <-> DDR transfer happens via the AXI busses
16:01
jjshawver_
not sure if you guys are interested this late in the game, but I did hear about an alternate platform you might like
16:01
jjshawver_
https://www.crowdsupply.com/krtkl/snickerdoodle
16:01
jjshawver_
same xilinx chip I believe
16:02
Bertl
hehe, we are backer of the snickerdoodle :)
16:02
jjshawver_
just 55 a pop instead of the 250
16:02
jjshawver_
nice :)
16:02
Bertl
so, we have been looking at that and other alternatives for some time
16:02
jjshawver_
any thoughts on the other alternatives?
16:03
Bertl
the thing is, with an 1000 USD sensor, the 200 USD for the Microzed are not _that_ much
16:04
jjshawver_
that is fair, although any savings can be nice
16:04
jjshawver_
any formal pin locations for shields yet?
16:05
Bertl
we have been investigating the parallella, which would be a nice option for low end sensors
16:05
jjshawver_
meaning something as formal as the Arduino where you can infinitely stack them
16:05
jjshawver_
yeah. the parallella is a very cool board. guessing you'd go the embedded flavor for the more GPIO
16:05
Bertl
we also have been investigating the Picozed, which is a stripped down version of the Microzed
16:06
jjshawver_
that definitely could be nice
16:06
Bertl
anyway, for the current Beta the Microzed interface has been chosen/fixed, but that doesn't mean that a future version won't use a different devel board
16:07
jjshawver_
most definitely. that's part of the fun with the open source aspect. any dev board can be plugged in later
16:08
Bertl
so, for the FPGA part, would you like a walk through?
16:08
jjshawver_
that would be great, although some solid documentation would probably help more so.
16:09
jjshawver_
I do know how time puts that aside
16:09
Bertl
you have to write that or use the source :)
16:09
jjshawver_
works for me
16:09
jjshawver_
latex cool with you guys?
16:09
Bertl
definitely
16:09
jjshawver_
documentation isn't a favorite, but definitely helps. so I can start to chip away there initially
16:11
jjshawver_
and if you guys are doing a rehaul, would you potentially be interested in swapping to SystemVerilog instead?
16:11
jjshawver_
removes the need of a lot of verbose coding
16:12
jjshawver_
aka, wiring modules up shrinks to just a couple lines of code
16:14
Bertl
personally I'm not a fan of Verilog per se but I'm not against it if you can make a point
16:14
Bertl
note that recent Vivado support VHDL 2009 (at least most of it) so VHDL has become a lot more attractive than before
16:15
jjshawver_
I'm not familiar with VHDL 2009. Currently using SystemVerilog 2012. Which I think Vivado also supports
16:15
jjshawver_
I'd agree that VHDL has some serious advantages over Verilog 2001. Although SystemVerilog simplifies things quite a bit
16:15
Bertl
2012 you say, you should probably check that, xilinx is not so fast in picking up new standards :)
16:17
Bertl
note that a main goal is to create code which can be rebuilt without a special license or expensive toolchain
16:17
Bertl
i.e. whatever we do, we are limited to the Web Pack provided by Xilinx
16:18
jjshawver_
that's a good goal. I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that Vivado supported it all. Although there are Testbench specific things in the language that you can't synthesize with.
16:19
jjshawver_
Trying to find where I read that
16:19
jjshawver_
but yeah. SystemVerilog has interfaces, which are very similar to bundled cables that are plug and play between modules
16:19
jjshawver_
it also has enums, typedefs, structs and unions
16:20
jjshawver_
so moving data between modules can be read and deciphered rather easily. plus, bit width changes don't effect you nearly as much
16:20
Bertl
in any case it should be combineable with VHDL, so as I said, if you can make a point, that's fine with me
16:21
Bertl
note that there are also quite nice alternatives (wrappers) for VHDL, like MyHDL
16:21
jjshawver_
also has keywords to help protect synthesis. i.e. always_comb will throw warnings if there are inferred latches, and always_ff is a good way of showing when registers are being used
16:22
jjshawver_
hmm.. haven't heard of MyHDL. does vivado support those?
16:22
Bertl
it's open source software, and Vivado starts at the VHDL/Verilog level
16:23
Bertl
anyway, plenty of options :)
16:24
jjshawver_
most definitely. I'll have to check out MyHDL and see what is nice about it. (as I'm sure you've noticed, I'm partial to SystemVerilog - primarily to it's C similarities)
16:24
jjshawver_
But definitely good to try something new :)
16:25
Bertl
when I started coding HDL (which was when we started with the Alpha design :) I checked out both languages
16:25
Bertl
and then decided to go for the more structured and well defined one instead of the the one which was more familiar :)
16:26
jjshawver_
I'd consider SystemVerilog almost as a third language. A blend between VHDL, Verilog, C and a little of its own :)
16:26
Bertl
note that SystemVerilog is a huge improvement over Verilog
16:26
jjshawver_
most definitely agree that SystemVerilog is a huge improvement over verilog.
16:27
Bertl
so I'd say: make yourself familiar with e.g. the input pipeline
16:27
Bertl
check out what the Web Pack provides in this regard
16:28
Bertl
and e.g. rewrite part of it in SystemVerilog to show how that improves the design
16:28
Bertl
or let me know what you want to work on ...
16:29
jjshawver_
sounds good to me! :) That's definitely a good starting point. I'll probably have to badger you at some points to get a thorough understanding of the layout from time to time
16:29
jjshawver_
what hours are you typically available?
16:29
Bertl
no problem, I'm usually around and definitely answer any questions directed at my nick at some point
16:31
jjshawver_
ok. sounds good. thanks!
16:31
Bertl
hard to say, but usually my hours are very similar to the US timezones
16:31
jjshawver_
I'll go ahead and get started and get back to you periodically in the next couple weeks
16:32
jjshawver_
would you prefer I fork the git repo or work right out of master? (probably would need to be added to the repo for that)
16:33
Bertl
shouldn't be a problem to get you added to the repo, but I guess for a start it's simpler to fork
16:33
jjshawver_
works for me! thanks
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19:18
Phrk_
Hello, is someone here using a editor on linux in a "pro" way ?
19:18
Bertl
not sure what that even means :) I'm using vim in a "pro" way :)
19:19
Phrk_
Vim is a very serious pro software
19:19
Phrk_
not marketing bullshit, i mean pro like you can do a lot of thing with
19:20
Bertl
correct, so is emacs
19:20
Phrk_
like 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 10bit support
19:20
Bertl
ah, so the question is regarding film editing
19:20
Phrk_
by editor, i mean video editor (sorry)
19:20
Phrk_
ye
19:21
Phrk_
I'm currently using vegas on windows, but i want to slowly change my workflow on linux, if it's possible
19:22
Bertl
I see, well, I'm the wrong person for that question then, I don't do video editing ...
19:22
Phrk_
:'(
19:25
Bertl
but there are a number of other folks around (or better sometimes around) who do
19:25
Bertl
so give it a little time and maybe ask again if you don't get feedback
19:26
Phrk_
ok
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20:40
alexML
for those of you interested in PLR: you may want to check my first notes here: https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/PLR
20:46
Bertl
nice, tx!
20:49
alexML
that was just scratching the surface :P
20:49
alexML
I wonder if that nonlinear highlight response from regular exposures (that "nondata" part) may be actually a side effect of the PLR circuits
20:50
Bertl
possible
20:53
Bertl
off for a nap ... bbl
20:53
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
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