| 00:49 | Bertl | off for a nap ... bbl
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| 16:14 | Bertl | morning everyone!
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| 18:14 | troy_s_ | Bertl: Greets
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| 18:14 | troy_s_ | se6astian: Interesting document.
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| 20:27 | guesst | what document?
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| 20:55 | se6astian | documents from cmosis
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| 20:56 | FergusL | guesst: I would have expected that from a TVlogic screen
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| 20:56 | FergusL | it's a control screen designed for on-camera use
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| 20:57 | FergusL | they aren't made for showing precisely what you're shooting
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| 20:58 | FergusL | rather showing something deliberatly wrong(~ corrected) for the sake of simply helping the operator what he needs to check
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| 21:00 | bootstrap | joined the channel |
| 21:00 | bootstrap | hello again Bertl, se6astian and all.
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| 21:01 | Bertl | wb bootstrap!
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| 21:01 | bootstrap | I've been performing some due diligence about everything related to this project.
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| 21:01 | bootstrap | howdy!
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| 21:01 | bootstrap | Sorry I've been silent, but it takes a while to get back up to speed on stuff like this.
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| 21:01 | bootstrap | Just last night I was looking into 10Ge PHYs.
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| 21:02 | bootstrap | Strange that nobody seems willing to let component prices be known without jumping through hoops.
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| 21:04 | Bertl | that is mostly because they want to sell them at the highest possible price
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| 21:05 | bootstrap | Sigh. I can't imagine how not knowing the price will get me to design them into products! :-o
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| 21:05 | Bertl | i.e. if the chip costs 10cent in production, it can be sold at 10 USD typical, but if you buy more, it can be 2USD or 1USD or even 20 cent :)
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| 21:05 | bootstrap | Fortunately I have an NDA with Marvell from during my camera project, so maybe they'll be quick.
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| 21:06 | bootstrap | Well, the chips like these are more likely $20 to $80 in 1K to 10K quantities.
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| 21:06 | bootstrap | I assume the chip business is all about amortizing their development costs.
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| 21:07 | bootstrap | In most cases, anyway.
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| 21:07 | bootstrap | When I just looked into FPGAs again recently, I was BLOWN AWAY by how much they imagine they can get for the more elaborate ones. They're just NUTS.
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| 21:08 | bootstrap | Take a $5 CPU... put it inside the FPGA... and they want $150 or $1500 extra for it. Yeah, right. Not from this kid.
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| 21:09 | bootstrap | They must be focused only on markets like MRI machines or something, where the cost of the machine is so high, the IC costs are irrelevant.
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| 21:09 | bootstrap | For those kinds of projects, the flexibility of the FPGA is "worth it".
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| 21:11 | bootstrap | Fortunately, the "logic element only" FPGAs are still within reach (cost wise), though still annoyingly expensive.
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| 21:13 | guesst | i do not see fpga cost to be expensive
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| 21:13 | guesst | they can do more than is required :)
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| 21:13 | bootstrap | I assume you're talking about the LE-only variety.
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| 21:13 | guesst | yes
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| 21:14 | bootstrap | Yes, they are within rearch for this kind of project.... but MUCH too expensive for many other projects they would be nice for.
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| 21:14 | guesst | zynq make sense if you need more than 5Gbps between cpu-logic, but that much data the cpu can not process anyway
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| 21:14 | guesst | eg?
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| 21:14 | bootstrap | ?
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| 21:14 | bootstrap | What is zynq? Xilinx?
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| 21:15 | guesst | yes. fpga+arm
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| 21:15 | bootstrap | I've been looking at Altera, because that's what I'm familiar with.
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| 21:15 | guesst | the price is > than a fpga + discrete arm... only benefit is sharing the memory :)
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| 21:15 | bootstrap | In their case, the new generation of LE-only ones are about $60... but add a microcontroller, and the price goes through the roof.
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| 21:16 | guesst | it is not a microcontroller
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| 21:16 | guesst | the dualcore arm is maybe more powerful than your phone :)
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| 21:16 | bootstrap | The one I used before in my camera project was cyclone 3, and only cost $14 (which I considered very high at the time).
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| 21:16 | bootstrap | The new logic-element cyclone 5 parts are $60 minimum.
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| 21:16 | guesst | but they are way larger
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| 21:16 | bootstrap | I don't have a cell phone!
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| 21:16 | guesst | and less power hungry
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| 21:16 | bootstrap | Hahaha.
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| 21:16 | guesst | and faster
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| 21:17 | bootstrap | I haven't really looked into that. How does it compare with a C8051F120 for example?
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| 21:17 | bootstrap | I assume it is a 32-bit CPU.
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| 21:17 | guesst | 8051 ~ 8bit?
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| 21:17 | bootstrap | Yes. 100Hz, generally 1~2 cycles per instruction execution.
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| 21:18 | guesst | 100MIPS stated
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| 21:18 | guesst | and 8 bit
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| 21:18 | bootstrap | Okay, so similar, but wider I assume (32-bits, right)?
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| 21:18 | guesst | a dualcore arm at 1G can do 2000MIPS, 32bit
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| 21:18 | guesst | so 20x4x more ? :)
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| 21:18 | bootstrap | The problem is, put one of those uC inside the FPGA, and they want hundreds of dollars for it.
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| 21:18 | bootstrap | Or at least $100 extra at the very minimum.
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| 21:19 | guesst | foga is not for mcu replacement
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| 21:19 | bootstrap | So... unless it is impossible for some reason, putting them on the outside seems wiser.
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| 21:19 | bootstrap | outside of the FPGA I mean.
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| 21:19 | guesst | check pm
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| 21:19 | bootstrap | pm?
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| 21:19 | guesst | yes, i think that is the way to go
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| 21:19 | bootstrap | what is pm?
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| 21:19 | guesst | private message? :)
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| 21:20 | bootstrap | Oh, where? Is that part of IRC ?
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| 21:20 | guesst | yes.
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| 21:20 | guesst | what is your client?
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| 21:20 | bootstrap | I haven't done much on IRC, so don't know how this works.
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| 21:20 | guesst | you have channels - groups
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| 21:20 | bootstrap | XChat on linux.
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| 21:20 | guesst | many-to-many
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| 21:20 | guesst | and then there is private, one-on-one
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| 21:21 | guesst | look at bottom - for channels (#name) or (nickname) for private
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| 21:21 | bootstrap | Bottom of what? The main window? That's where I'm typing now, and there's nothing here.
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| 21:21 | guesst | yes
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| 21:21 | guesst | wait
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| 21:21 | bootstrap | I'm looking in the menus for "private".
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| 21:21 | guesst | menu:
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| 21:22 | guesst | view-channel switcher-tabs
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| 21:22 | bootstrap | Ah, now I see buttons at the bottom. Click yours?
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| 21:22 | guesst | yes.
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| 21:51 | se6astian | time for bed
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| 21:51 | se6astian | good night!
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