00:09 | aombk | nice
| |
00:21 | intracube | aombk: thanks
| |
00:22 | intracube | one thing I've noticed is the FPN-subtract01.tif has noticable vignetting when you increase gain/contrast
| |
00:23 | intracube | I wonder if this is down to slight uneven illumination of the sensor when calibrating?
| |
00:23 | Bertl | probably, and the optics as well I guess
| |
00:23 | intracube | I'd sort of expect the fixed noise to run full width/height without any gradient
| |
00:23 | intracube | Bertl: there was a lens attached during calibration?!
| |
00:24 | Bertl | I'm pretty sure, otherwise even illumination is even more trickier
| |
00:24 | intracube | I'm experimenting with pre-processing the FPN tif to reduce the vignetting
| |
00:24 | intracube | and see if that gives slightly better results
| |
00:25 | Bertl | we built a contraption to illuminate the sensor without lens system, but that was rather complicated to use
| |
00:25 | intracube | with a contrast boost: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/show.php?id=77841
| |
00:25 | intracube | Bertl: ah I see
| |
00:25 | Bertl | also, depending on when the footage was acquired, the section doesn't need to be in the center of the sensor
| |
00:26 | Bertl | more likely it is at the top of the visual area
| |
00:26 | Bertl | 3072/2 = 1536, but the output was 1080 (full HD)
| |
00:27 | Bertl | so it might be up to 768 rows off center
| |
00:27 | Bertl | (which is a lot :)
| |
00:27 | intracube | eep
| |
00:31 | aombk | global shutter footage is very pleasing
| |
00:45 | intracube | ^ + 1
| |
00:47 | intracube | I read on here there were at least two different ways the data was read of the sensor
| |
00:47 | intracube | something to do with the capability of the recording device or HDMI interface?
| |
00:48 | Bertl | yes, we first had an odd 4:2:2 RGB encoding
| |
00:48 | Bertl | and later switched to a more sane YCbCr encoding
| |
00:48 | intracube | do you know if the FPN tiff was done using a different encoding to the test footage?
| |
00:49 | Bertl | I presume neither nor, i.e. I think that is most likely a snapshot
| |
00:49 | intracube | there is a (green) hot pixel that's in a slightly different position in the tiff compared to the test footage
| |
00:49 | Bertl | i.e. taken directly after the sensor, before the image output pipeline
| |
00:50 | intracube | the dead pixel is slightly further to the right (and smeared horizontally) compared to the tiff
| |
00:50 | intracube | the texture of the FPN also looks shifted in the same direction
| |
00:50 | intracube | that might make it impossible to do an accurate subtract
| |
00:50 | Bertl | the image is most likely 128 pixel off to the left as well
| |
00:51 | Bertl | because of the full HD vs sensor size
| |
00:53 | intracube | it doesn't appear to be that far out. only a pixel or so
| |
00:59 | Bertl | keep in mind, that it is probably a single sensel
| |
01:00 | Bertl | so that will show up as one bad color component in a snapshot
| |
01:00 | Bertl | but will get smeared in the YCbCr conversion for recording
| |
01:08 | intracube | Bertl: yep
| |
01:09 | intracube | so the FPN frame needs to be redone using the same capture method as the rest of the footage
| |
01:09 | intracube | then hopefully it would subtract that bit better
| |
01:11 | aombk | http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/fake-advert-apple-wave-convinces-people-charge-their-iphones-microwave-1467253
| |
01:38 | Bertl | intracube: yes, or you can apply the transformation used when the recording was done
| |
02:29 | Wescotte | left the channel | |
02:42 | Bertl | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
| |
02:43 | Bertl | changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
| |
05:17 | Gegsite | joined the channel | |
06:04 | danieel | se6astian|away: intracube - the sensor can not be made for any particular color space - as there is no single color which would generate response ONLY on its own color plane
| |
06:04 | danieel | the calibration matrix has therefore emphasis on the primary, with substraction of the other two, to reach e.g. sRGB
| |
06:09 | danieel | if you want to see the kodak chip in operation at live 4k... come to Brno this evening (pioneers unplugged)
| |
06:19 | Gegsite | left the channel | |
08:00 | KurtAugust | joined the channel | |
08:04 | KurtAugust | Hi there, nice to see that the Magic Lantern announcement seems to bring in a lot of donations! I have a question https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_WCZjPI7Bw#t=55 This was shot without an OLPF, right? Please consider adding one that soften the image enough. Nothing worse than over sharpened detail and color moiree. Unless you're going for a cctv look...
| |
08:12 | danieel | around 0.15 you can see the moire on the white buldings left edge...
| |
08:25 | PhilippeJ | joined the channel | |
08:31 | KurtAugust | Well, there is a lot in the fence too.
| |
08:46 | KurtAugust | left the channel | |
08:47 | KurtAugust | joined the channel | |
08:58 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
| |
09:16 | se6astian | KurtAugust: correct, the ALpha has no OLPF
| |
09:32 | aombk | http://prolost.com/blog/camcamcam
| |
09:42 | se6astian | anyone here to help me review a shortperk description
| |
09:43 | se6astian | native speaker maybe?
| |
09:59 | danieel | left the channel | |
10:23 | Fred__ | joined the channel | |
10:30 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
| |
10:30 | Fred__ | If you insert a perk in front of EUR75 the Mega and Hyper supporter gets this to? (>> "All of the above") So at the moment there are 19 Buttons and T-shirts and not 5. is this right?
| |
10:34 | KurtAugust | left the channel | |
10:48 | Fred__ | left the channel | |
10:49 | Fred__ | joined the channel | |
10:53 | Fred__ | left the channel | |
11:16 | KurtAugust | joined the channel | |
11:20 | PhilippeJ | left the channel | |
11:43 | PhilippeJ | joined the channel | |
12:01 | Bertl_zZ | changed nick to: Bertl
| |
12:01 | Bertl | morning folks!
| |
12:15 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
| |
12:34 | se6astian | back
| |
13:19 | masal | joined the channel | |
13:22 | KurtAugust | left the channel | |
13:26 | masal | left the channel | |
14:28 | intracube | left the channel | |
14:40 | intracube | joined the channel | |
15:27 | PhilippeJ | left the channel | |
16:41 | Gegsite | joined the channel | |
16:52 | aombk | you know apart from surveys, polls on your web page are nice
| |
17:27 | se6astian | ah good that you remind me to remove the poll on the website :)
| |
17:32 | Gegsite | left the channel | |
17:33 | se6astian | done
| |
17:34 | aombk | pm?
| |
17:44 | comradekingu | joined the channel | |
17:45 | comradekingu | Is it possible to use C-type usb (which has DP) rather than hdmi
| |
17:45 | comradekingu | and/or DP in general instead of hdmi
| |
17:46 | Bertl | well, the problem with DP is that both integrated chips as well as connectors are rather proprietary and expensive
| |
17:47 | Bertl | but yes, from the technical point of view there is nothing which speaks against (e)DP
| |
17:48 | Bertl | both, HDMI and DP use TMDS as encoding and both can be supported with minimal change in the electrical connection
| |
17:48 | slikdigit | left the channel | |
17:49 | Bertl | for the USB C-type, I've read about it, but I haven't seen any connectors/cables there yet, and it is unclear to me what bandwidth will be supported
| |
17:50 | Bertl | also I do not think that it supports DP at all, but I might be wrong there
| |
17:56 | comradekingu | Bertl: even the DP chips from TI?
| |
17:56 | comradekingu | Its royalty free to implement, so that probably weighs up a bit
| |
17:57 | comradekingu | Bertl: you can read about it here http://www.anandtech.com/show/8558/displayport-alternate-mode-for-usb-typec-announced
| |
17:59 | Bertl | ah, so in 'alternate' mode, basically using the USB signal pairs for something else :)
| |
18:00 | Bertl | yes, that would be doable I guess ... regarding TI chips, do you have any links/suggestions there?
| |
18:01 | Bertl | last time I checked I found a number of chips, from ST and similar vendors, but all of them required an NDA
| |
18:04 | Bertl | a hint for type-c receptacles would be also appreciated ... haven't found any right now on a quick search :)
| |
18:09 | Bertl | but I definitely like the idea
| |
18:15 | comradekingu | Bertl: TI has all sorts of DP solutions. They helped develop the dockport with AMD
| |
18:19 | Bertl | btw, royalfree to implement, yes, but the standard is not available (e.g. DP 1.3)
| |
18:19 | Bertl | you cannot even purchase it, as it seems, you have to become a vesa member to get it
| |
18:22 | Bertl | but the annual membership dues are a little more reasonable, starting with 3.500 USD
| |
18:24 | comradekingu | It used to be available with earlier DP
| |
18:24 | comradekingu | 3500 USD isnt as bad as paying a per-device royalty. With 3 hdmis that adds up
| |
18:39 | legendin | joined the channel | |
18:54 | aombk | this whole dslr blog/news sites thing is very disappointing. after having contacted many of them i am starting to believe most of them host ONLY paid articles/advertisements.
| |
18:56 | aombk | maybe i should make an independent and open cinema blog, like most of them used to be.
| |
19:20 | Bertl | welcome legendin!
| |
19:20 | Bertl | aombk: sounds good!
| |
19:28 | Gegsite | joined the channel | |
19:35 | comradekingu | aombk: the 43rumours site featured the indiegogo campaign, which is where i caught wind of it. I thought i was on the apertus newsletter, but guess not
| |
19:46 | hamster | joined the channel | |
19:46 | hamster | Morning all...
| |
19:48 | legendin | left the channel | |
19:49 | Bertl | hey hamster!
| |
19:51 | hamster | Saw your email - looking like you have a lot of work on your hands
| |
19:51 | Bertl | of course, but a lot of fun as well :)
| |
19:52 | hamster | Well, actually I was going to write "It looks like you have a lot of fun on your hands...."
| |
19:52 | Bertl | freudian slip? :)
| |
19:52 | Bertl | in any case, it will be both I guess, so right on the spot
| |
19:52 | hamster | :)
| |
19:53 | hamster | I'm more than happy to help if I can, but I am quite time poor - I only get a couple of hours a week to 'play' with stuff.
| |
19:54 | Bertl | we had a number of encounters already, so I thought I'll bring you in contact with the project, it might be your alley
| |
19:54 | hamster | However, I am working on one little project that might be of use. It is a low bandwidth (200Mb/s) serial bus for connecting buttons, switches, sensors and so on around an FPGA.
| |
19:55 | hamster | because it only has one wire between devices it leaves a lot of routing resource for fast, wide, stuff - you are going to need that with 4K.
| |
19:56 | hamster | What's the data rate from the sensors? about 1GB/s?
| |
19:56 | Bertl | you wish :)
| |
19:56 | Bertl | with the CMV12k we have 64 LVDS pairs with 600MHz
| |
19:57 | Bertl | but of course, we do not need to use the full bandwidth for 'normal' 4k recording
| |
19:57 | hamster | Oh, 5GB/s... just a little more than I'm use to!
| |
19:57 | Bertl | we have a preliminary design for the Beta, but we are open for improvements and additions where it makes sense
| |
19:58 | hamster | I saw the beta footage. Looks awesome.
| |
19:58 | Bertl | that is actually Alpha footage, i.e. from the AXIOM Alpha
| |
19:58 | Bertl | our shoe-box sized proof of concept camera
| |
19:59 | Bertl | basically uses a ZedBoard plus a custom sensor interface
| |
19:59 | hamster | How did you get started in this? is it a research project that has taken off?
| |
19:59 | Bertl | (the designs and code are on github if you like to check it out)
| |
20:00 | Bertl | apertus exists for quite some time, with the aim to develop FOSS/OH for movie making
| |
20:00 | Bertl | but the AXIOM basically got started a year ago (or a little more)
| |
20:01 | Bertl | I got involved last summer when sebastian was looking for some FPGA programmer to help :)
| |
20:01 | Bertl | half a year later we had moving pictures from the AXIOM Alpha
| |
20:02 | hamster | Nice.
| |
20:03 | hamster | Do you think that the desired design size is ambitious? That is a lot of stuff to pack in.
| |
20:03 | Bertl | yes, but we are basically matching the MicroZed size there
| |
20:04 | Bertl | and it seems like all the parts fit, except for connectors, where we have to go mini/micro for most of them
| |
20:04 | hamster | (joke) You could get the back of the case milled to be a heatsink for the Zynq(/joke)
| |
20:04 | Bertl | https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema (btw)
| |
20:05 | Bertl | we thought about that, and I'm sure we will do something similar on the Gamma (a little down the way)
| |
20:05 | hamster | Already found it :) Will have to have a good look when I get home from work.
| |
20:06 | philippej | joined the channel | |
20:07 | hamster | The higher spec sensor had some pretty high frame rates - 500 fps IIRC that's HEAPS of data. Are you actually able to get that to storage. (of course you are, but I still wonder!)
| |
20:08 | Bertl | 300FPS at 10bit full 4k, for the CMV12000, yes
| |
20:08 | Bertl | well, not everything needs to be stored, but yes, storing huge amount of data is a major problem
| |
20:09 | Bertl | we probably won't solve the storage problem completely in the Beta, which is designed for an external recording device
| |
20:09 | Bertl | but we plan to do so with the Gamma
| |
20:11 | hamster | I was also taking with somebody who was building something to capture high speed RF (250MB/s for an hour), and it looked like an array of high end SD cards was the only way to go. Or a very high spec PCIe SSD.
| |
20:12 | Bertl | yeah, we gave up on the SD idea, we have dual SD interface planned on the Beta for recording still images and similar
| |
20:12 | Bertl | but we figured we need at least two SATA 6G SSDs to record raw video
| |
20:14 | hamster | They were looking at Samsung SSD XP941 SSDs - e.g. http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-XP941-512GB-PCIe-MZHPU512HCGL/dp/B00JOSM3TK
| |
20:15 | Bertl | yeah, PCIe is one option, NVMe another and as I said, SATA 6G
| |
20:16 | Bertl | typically you want something which can be easily swapped for archiving
| |
20:18 | hamster | The whole professional video market is just a different world, where you can afford to keep content on expensive media because it costs so much to actually obtain it in the first place... quite foreign to me!
| |
20:19 | philippej | aloha everyone !
| |
20:19 | Bertl | hamster: yeah, it was a completely new world for me as well
| |
20:19 | hamster | I would really like to chat a lot more, but I've got to go and do 'real work'.... 8-(
| |
20:19 | hamster | I'll leave the window open, and keep an eye on things....
| |
20:19 | hamster | Hi Phillippej
| |
20:20 | Bertl | no problem, we'll chat later ...
| |
20:21 | Bertl | and of course, feel free to hang around ... the channel is also logged in case you loose connection, or want to read up on discussions
| |
20:27 | hamster | I've just been scanning the logs from 2014-09-14 - where Anton has had pretty much the same conversation we just had :-)
| |
20:29 | Bertl | yeah, sometimes it's good to have archives :)
| |
20:35 | se6astian | any native speakers around now
| |
20:35 | se6astian | still need some text reviewed
| |
20:35 | se6astian | I again managed to smuggle some mistakes into the last update posts :)
| |
20:36 | hamster | left the channel | |
20:36 | Bertl | yeah, always impressive :)
| |
20:39 | legendin | joined the channel | |
20:40 | legendin | Greetings!
| |
20:40 | se6astian | hey there
| |
20:47 | legendin | Really excited about this initiative. Finally decided as I was filling out the beta survey that I would like to get involved in Axiom development on a personal basis, and maybe offer modules and other accessories on a professional basis in the future
| |
20:48 | Bertl | great!
| |
20:49 | legendin | Been itching to get back to programming and electronics for a while now, but it's hard to say now to film work ;)
| |
20:50 | Bertl | well, so AXIOM is the perfect combination then :)
| |
20:51 | legendin | certainly seems so yes :)
| |
20:53 | se6astian | what modules or accessories did you have in mind, I am curious
| |
21:00 | legendin | Im am currently in the process of rummaging through old ideas to see if I can draw some inspiration. There are so many possibilities with the AXIOM that open up possibilities that up until now have been hindered by proprietary or incomplete interfaces. The key is to find the old ideas that were put on the shelf for reasons such as "that won't be possible to integrate with a camera" etc.
| |
21:04 | philippej | left the channel | |
21:04 | se6astian | I see, well thats exactly the kind of things we were hoping to enable with our approach
| |
21:04 | legendin | So far I have one concrete project in mind that would benefit from automation via rec information. Additionally I'd like to tap into live IMU data to control lights on set.
| |
21:06 | legendin | And that's what I love about this project. Coming from a linux/oss background, it is quite frustrating at times not to be able to tinker with / hack professional film cameras
| |
21:07 | legendin | I just recall how liberating it felt when I installed ML on my 550D a couple of years ago
| |
21:11 | se6astian | :)
| |
21:13 | Gegsite | left the channel | |
21:16 | legendin | Ooh! With an active mount, a software addon could log lens data, time, duration, clip number etc. on the fly and let the on set script add descriptive metadata on eg. a tablet through wifi
| |
21:16 | legendin | that'd be nice as hell
| |
21:18 | legendin | pour some processing in there and the addon could search for a frame with the slate and embed a thumbnail in the log as well
| |
21:20 | aombk | nice idea
| |
21:21 | legendin | Curious as to how the runtime will facilitate such software addons
| |
21:22 | aombk | do you know of pcie recording solutions for desktop/studio work and usb recording solutions for laptop recording?
| |
21:22 | aombk | like this one http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1073122-REG/inogeni_4k2usb3_4k_hdmi_to_usb.html
| |
21:24 | aombk | i dont like the idea of getting an hdmi monitor/recorder when there are cheaper and powerful laptops available
| |
21:28 | aombk | se6astian? bertl?
| |
21:29 | Bertl | not on my end, at least not for a reasonable price
| |
21:39 | aombk | lets say, the one i linked, would it work on a laptop bandwidthwise?
| |
21:41 | Bertl | if your laptop has USB 3.0, yes
| |
21:42 | Bertl | but it does do some data conversion as mentioned on the overview
| |
21:58 | se6astian | at least it supports Linux and is rather affordable
| |
21:58 | se6astian | interesting find
| |
21:58 | Bertl | yup, probably worth testing at some point
| |
22:54 | se6astian | Canon reacts to the AXIOM - ML team up
| |
22:54 | se6astian | http://www.slrlounge.com/canon-teams-stella-mccartney-limited-edition-bagcamera-combo/
| |
22:55 | Bertl | LOL :)
| |
22:56 | se6astian | with this I sign of for today
| |
22:56 | se6astian | good night :)
| |
22:56 | Bertl | have a good one!
| |
22:57 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
|