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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2015/05/29

Timezone: UTC


01:06
fsteinel
left the channel
01:07
fsteinel_
joined the channel
01:40
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
01:40
Bertl
back now ...
03:42
slikdigit
left the channel
05:02
ItsMeLenny
joined the channel
06:27
fsteinel_
changed nick to: fsteinel
07:01
tezburma
joined the channel
07:03
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
07:04
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
08:05
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
08:05
se6astian
good morning
08:13
LordVan
joined the channel
08:19
se6astian
hi LordVan
08:19
se6astian
how is it going?
08:19
LordVan
hi
08:19
LordVan
been busy this week
08:20
LordVan
I hope to get around to work some more on the CAD today
08:20
se6astian
so no cad yet? :(
08:20
se6astian
great
08:20
LordVan
since friday = short day
08:20
LordVan
the .stl worked
08:20
LordVan
the inventor files sort of worked (but some linked stuff was missing so i used the stl)
08:20
LordVan
what i meant to ask you: how much extra "space" do you need around the PCB?
08:26
LordVan
se6astian, btw do you have the measurements of a 40x40 fan you mentioned at hand? i don't have any that small here ;)
08:26
LordVan
(if not i can always look it up so no prolbem there)
08:34
se6astian
the fan is already modelled and on github
08:34
se6astian
https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/beta-hardware/blob/master/Enclosure/Version%20002/Cooler.ipt
08:34
LordVan
ah ok maybe i overlooked it. thanks will get it from there
08:34
LordVan
:)
08:35
LordVan
do you have any specific deadline by when you need it btw or just "this week" ?
08:35
se6astian
extra space around the PCBs: for the sides that have connectors: as little as possible
08:35
se6astian
for the other sides 1-2mm should do
08:35
se6astian
not that critical
08:35
LordVan
ok.
08:35
LordVan
:)
08:36
se6astian
manfred leaves for vacation on the 3rd of june
08:36
se6astian
I would have liked to discuss the CAD concept before he leaves with him
08:37
LordVan
ok
08:37
LordVan
cuz I have a training seminar on Sat+Sun for 8hour+ each so what I don't get done today .. ^^
08:37
LordVan
but i guess i could upload on github/send you what i have in any case
08:37
LordVan
can you open solid edge files directly or do you prefer .stl/.step?
08:59
se6astian
please send both
08:59
se6astian
and more important is the general shape
09:00
se6astian
we can reposition and dimension the details later on easily as well
09:18
LordVan
yeah
09:18
LordVan
good point
09:19
LordVan
btw stl or step what do you prefer? (SE works better with step usually, but stl normall works as well)
09:22
se6astian
both please
09:22
LordVan
ok
13:25
g3gg0
joined the channel
13:37
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
13:37
Bertl
morning folks!
13:38
se6astian
hello!
13:39
aombk2
hi
13:42
LordVan
hi Bertl
13:42
LordVan
anyway i gotta go .. se6astian i shall work on the CAD later and will send as soon as it is (sort of at least) ready ;)
13:43
LordVan
left the channel
13:49
se6astian
great
13:49
se6astian
please also send it if its half ready
14:05
ItsMeLenny
hello
14:06
ItsMeLenny
does it blow anybody elses minds how cheap cameras can be bought for in china
14:06
ItsMeLenny
even if the quality of them are awful
14:07
Bertl
no, not at all
14:07
ItsMeLenny
lol
14:07
Bertl
if you consider how many parties get their cut for doing almost nothing in a "western" country, you understand why it is so cheap in china
14:08
ItsMeLenny
that's true
14:08
ItsMeLenny
but i still don't think that would put a DSLR at less than $50, not that china are selling $50 DSLRs
14:10
ItsMeLenny
but if some of their cheapies had a lens mount instead of a pinhole, and had fast data writing outputs, and open firmware or similar, i'd like to see what theyre capable of in shooting raw with a good lens
14:10
ItsMeLenny
not that the sensors would be bigger than a cm
14:12
ItsMeLenny
by the way, i am still waiting for the AXEÖHM CD release
14:12
ItsMeLenny
although i'll probably wait for the cassette tape version
14:15
Bertl
you didn't get the CD yet?
14:16
ItsMeLenny
no, i ordered but it hasnt arrived
14:16
ItsMeLenny
and i put it on express post so i dont know where it is
14:16
Bertl
probably hijacked by a fan at the postal service :)
14:17
ItsMeLenny
hate those posties
14:17
ItsMeLenny
i think they took my birthday money 2 years ago as well
14:19
ItsMeLenny
does this company "analog devices" make good ICs
14:23
jucar
left the channel
14:37
aombk2
there is a chinese cinema camera company called kineraw
14:38
aombk2
their cameras are not that cheap
14:39
Bertl
ItsMeLenny: they make reasonably good parts, yes, they are also not very cheap
14:39
aombk2
sorry, the name of the company is kinefinity
14:39
Bertl
aombk2: yeah, we had a chat with them on NAB
14:40
aombk2
great. are they ok guys?
14:42
aombk2
also something you said about an on the couch interview with other camera manufacturers, will it ever be out?
14:42
Bertl
honestly, we don't know if they will publish it
14:43
Bertl
maybe blackmagic didn't like it and bought the "only" copy :)
14:43
aombk2
makes sense
14:48
aombk2
but what was the problem? can you describe how it went?
14:49
hozer
joined the channel
14:50
Bertl
https://instagram.com/p/1emRPiRiX-/
14:50
Bertl
you see who is smiling? :)
14:51
aombk2
seemingly all of them. that was after the interview?
14:52
Bertl
I think so, don't remember when the picture was taken
14:54
aombk2
it would be interesting to watch it
14:54
aombk2
maybe you should ask cinema4d about what happened at some point
14:55
Bertl
5D :)
14:56
ItsMeLenny
Bertl, the bits i'm looking at are only ~$15, but double that when bought in a quantity of one
14:56
aombk2
oh right
14:58
Bertl
ItsMeLenny: what are you working on, if you don't mind me asking?
14:58
ItsMeLenny
whats a kineraw mini worth
14:58
ItsMeLenny
Bertl, i want to build my own Time Base Corrector
14:59
Bertl
what's that? what does it do?
14:59
ItsMeLenny
although my skills in electronics are minimal, but it doesnt look too difficult :P famous last words
14:59
ItsMeLenny
corrects the time base on VHS tapes
14:59
ItsMeLenny
and the chips i'm looking at also do 3D comb filtering
15:00
ItsMeLenny
so basically i want to make a device that takes composite and/or svideo in 10bit, comb filters (if need be), corrects time base, which is on the ADC chip, and then the DAC chip spits it back out at 10bit
15:01
ItsMeLenny
i bought the cheapest TBC i could find which was 300 dollars, so not actually cheap, and it was awful, ruined all the contrast, blew out the brightness
15:02
ItsMeLenny
so theyre usually a couple of thousand dollars to buy, so i decided i'll make my own
15:02
ItsMeLenny
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cfx97Mr7bqs/maxresdefault.jpg
15:03
Bertl
sounds interesting, which analog chips do you have in mind for that?
15:04
ItsMeLenny
this was the piece of crap i bought, and quickly returned (at my own expense :( ) http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/av-toolbox/images/avt-8710.jpg i'm not sure what chips were on it
15:04
aombk2
it adds fake sharpness with big radius
15:05
ItsMeLenny
well i'm looking at (i've emailed them some questions which they seemed to not want to answer through an email, they wanted to call my company or university :P ) but the video decoder chip ADV7800, i'm not sure if it's a full frame TBC, but i assume it is given the external memory it needs
15:06
g3gg0
left the channel
15:07
ItsMeLenny
and then i havent figured out which video encoder, probably the ADV7344, but i havent looked at price, so if not that the adv7341 or adv7340 are the only other ones with enough pixel inputs i think, their website tables of features are awfully laid out
15:07
ItsMeLenny
the adv7800 only says its NTSC on the website, but says PAL in the spec sheet http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ADV7800.pdf
15:07
ItsMeLenny
aombk2, the TBC?
15:08
Bertl
so you want to re-encode it?
15:09
ItsMeLenny
well i have the black magic intensity pro, which has component input 10bit 4:2:2, so i think i have to re-encode it
15:09
ItsMeLenny
it wont take YCrCb i wouldnt think, i did write to blackmagic and ask, but no response as usual
15:10
ItsMeLenny
i'd be happy to skip the re-encoding step if i knew how :P
15:10
ItsMeLenny
oh, hdmi takes YCrCb, maybe i can feed it into that
15:12
ItsMeLenny
i'm not too familiar with digital video :P i'm an analogue kind of guy, #retro
15:12
ItsMeLenny
i also want to see if i can hack a VCR, as well as my VHS-c camera to output S-video
15:13
Bertl
sounds like a number of projects ...
15:13
ItsMeLenny
i would think itd be as easy as jumping a capacitor
15:13
ItsMeLenny
its all the same project :P
15:13
Bertl
then maybe call it sub-projects :)
15:13
ItsMeLenny
to capture all the VHS-c tapes my mum shot over years
15:13
ItsMeLenny
lol thats better :P
15:14
ItsMeLenny
do you think that ADV7800 can be fed into HDMI if its outputting YCrCb
15:15
Bertl
not without an interface, probably buffer memory as well to get the timing right
15:16
ItsMeLenny
it'd probably be a better idea than converting it back to analogue
15:17
ItsMeLenny
i should grab the awful dvd vcr combo with have, ~400 dollars down the drain as neither the vcr or dvd work, and see what this card can take from HDMI
15:17
Bertl
my approach (but I'm a digital kind of guy :) would be to digitize everything at high datarate and do the rest in software :)
15:18
ItsMeLenny
the VCR was broken, and they wouldnt take it back, instead we had to get it fixed, and then they broke the dvd instead
15:18
ItsMeLenny
yeah, how would you go about digitizing something from composite?
15:19
ItsMeLenny
or do you mean do the combing and TBC in software, because i dont think theres anything that can do that
15:19
ItsMeLenny
particularly when the time base can be so off that frames get dropped constantly
15:21
Bertl
you need the appropriate analog interface (the part up to the ADC)
15:21
Bertl
but after that, the adv7800 does the processing on the digital data
15:22
ItsMeLenny
yeah, but i mean how would you save that digital data
15:22
Bertl
so using a 12 or maybe even 14bit ADC at the proper clock rate would give you great data to crunch on (in software)
15:23
Bertl
CVBS seems to require 54MHz sampling, that isn't too bad
15:25
ItsMeLenny
my capture card can only do 10bit
15:25
Bertl
i.e. you can get away with a 150 MHz ADC, make it 200MHz to be on the safe side
15:25
ItsMeLenny
oh
15:25
ItsMeLenny
so that 7800 might not suffice?
15:26
aombk2
ItsMeLenny, how do you connect the vcr to the computer?
15:26
ItsMeLenny
aombk2, blackmagic intensity pro
15:26
aombk2
and you get frame drops and syncing problems?
15:27
ItsMeLenny
composite at the moment, but VHS records Y and C separately, so if i can get svideo should stop the combing problem, though i did just buy this decomber from america second hand someone suggested, i now hate that person :P
15:28
ItsMeLenny
i was getting dropped frames, however they stopped after a firmware update, at least on one VHS tape i tried, but there is still time base problems as the picture warps a bit
15:29
ItsMeLenny
they released the intensity pro 4K, which they say has a professional TBC on it, turns out its just a mini TBC, and its actually an "analogue devices" IC, and from what i've seen it does a very poor job
15:29
aombk2
couldnt this be a vcr problem. can you test another vcr or playback device?
15:30
ItsMeLenny
it's an every VCR problem, i'm actually capturing from the original camera used to record, because it had very clean heads and because the picture is basically aligned it's much crisper than other VCRs
15:30
ItsMeLenny
the fix to the problem is to get a VCR with a TBC built in, but they cost as much as a TBC
15:31
ItsMeLenny
in addition to that, because its VHS-c, the VHS-c to VHS converter box has to pull the tape through a bit, and it cuts off the beginning of some of the recording from the start and end of the tape
15:32
ItsMeLenny
this is something i've been trying to do for the past 2 years :P i've gone through a lot of different things, and i am quite anal lol
15:33
Bertl
the thing is, the more often you play a tape back, the worse it will get
15:33
ItsMeLenny
Bertl, definitely, the tape i'm testing on is one that I shot something on that I don't care much for
15:33
Bertl
so the best option regarding data is to digitize it at high resolution first, then start working on recovery
15:34
ItsMeLenny
the tape has been sitting around and it didnt have combing in it before, but now it does, so its developed combing from not even being played, unles im getting interference somewhere
15:34
Bertl
the best approach would be to tap into the first amplified output of the head(s)
15:35
ItsMeLenny
but the time base still wouldnt be right
15:35
ItsMeLenny
what would i record that head data with and to
15:35
Bertl
with an ADC and directly to some memory
15:36
ItsMeLenny
that'd need a lot of memory
15:37
Bertl
at 150MHz it will take about 200 megabyte per second
15:37
ItsMeLenny
LOL
15:38
ItsMeLenny
i actually really like the idea
15:38
ItsMeLenny
but that's not going to be feasible
15:38
Bertl
not even a terrabyte per hour
15:39
ItsMeLenny
we havent even gotten gigabytes here in australia yet :P
15:41
ItsMeLenny
i think i might be able to do that YCC through hdmi though
15:42
ItsMeLenny
will save the DAC
15:43
ItsMeLenny
probably the most difficult part will be ensuring equal track lengths to the ram
15:46
ItsMeLenny
that adv7800 though says 10bit input on some pages, and 24bit and/or 8 bit on others
15:47
Bertl
four, 10bit ADCs
15:47
Bertl
24bit digital input
15:47
Bertl
and yes, it looks like the adv7800 can do the retiming for HDMI out
15:48
Bertl
you can feed the 30bit output to one of the HDMI encoder from analog devices
15:52
intracube
joined the channel
15:53
ItsMeLenny
ah
15:53
ItsMeLenny
i think this will be my best bet
15:54
ItsMeLenny
i bought a kramer FC-10D from america second hand, exchange rate is awful, its only a comb filter, the comb filter is awful :P works on combing, ruins all other picture
15:57
ItsMeLenny
by the way, would you happen to know what the difference is between the -80 and the -150 http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=adv7800
15:57
ItsMeLenny
they list them both in the spec sheet with the eval board just as a random note
15:58
ItsMeLenny
wow, cost 90 dollars to buy from farnell
16:00
jucar
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16:05
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
16:38
Bertl
I'd say the -80 can only do 80MHz, while the -150 does the full 150MHz
16:40
ItsMeLenny
ah!
16:41
ItsMeLenny
i never wouldve guessed
16:41
ItsMeLenny
thanks very much
17:08
Bertl
you're welcome!
17:12
ItsMeLenny
thanks for all the help
17:12
ItsMeLenny
i'll be off to bed shortly
17:22
Bertl
sweet dreams :)
17:41
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
17:46
intracube
changed nick to: intracube_afk
18:00
ItsMeLenny
left the channel
18:31
g3gg0
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18:38
se6astian
anyone here wanna help us find electronic parts for cheapest price for the Beta?
19:08
aombk2
i could try
19:13
se6astian
great
19:14
Bertl
note that "cheapest" means best price for certain parts
19:14
Bertl
i.e. we are not looking for cheap replacements
19:15
aombk2
ok
19:15
se6astian
pm
19:36
tezburma
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intracube_afk
changed nick to: intracube
20:19
slikdigit
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slikdigit
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slikdigit
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21:55
se6astian
gotta go
21:55
se6astian
good night
21:55
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
22:41
aombk3
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aombk2
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00:32
g3gg0
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