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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2020/11/28

Timezone: UTC


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Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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Bertl_oO
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BAndiT1983|away
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Bertl_zZ
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11:41
Bertl
morning folks!
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13:43
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
13:43
Bertl
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14:23
EmilJ
Hi there. Any tips for block diagramming software? Heck even paid, just not tikz or the janky generic ones like drawio/libreoffice draw
14:25
BAndiT1983
yed
14:26
BAndiT1983
or plantuml
14:36
BAndiT1983
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14:37
EmilJ
yed is really good, but I haven't really figured out how to use it for digital block diagrams well
14:37
BAndiT1983|away
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14:37
EmilJ
plantuml seems even less adaptable to digital
14:37
BAndiT1983
what do you mean by less adaptable?
14:39
BAndiT1983
if you mean by digital the signals, then you can have them -> https://forum.plantuml.net/11288/mixed-signal-timing-diagram
14:40
BAndiT1983
as digital for me (as software developer) has many meanings, we are using plantuml in professional software development a lot, for different diagram types, also used yed previously more, but it always depends on what you want to achieve etc.
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BAndiT1983
off for now
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BAndiT1983
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14:43
EmilJ
Sorry, I should have been more specific: I'm looking for tools to create block diagrams like this one:
14:43
EmilJ
https://irc.tywoniak.eu/file/1/4gaAMsHCfBZ4WsPq
14:43
EmilJ
which have abstraction as well as "actual wiring" and interface with electronics
14:47
EmilJ
automagically yosys-emitted diagrams are wonderful but don't provide input to, for example, take all primitives from a module and pack them in an abstracted box that still reflects function. And you can't easily hide signals that aren't as relevant for what you're trying to show about your digital design
14:48
vup
I previously alwyas used drawio
14:48
vup
maybe you can play around with exporting to netlistsvg directly from nmigen?
14:49
EmilJ
Hmm, I'll take a look into that
14:50
vup
I wrote a naive one here: https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/nmigen-gateware/blob/07f71d9/src/util/draw_hierarchy.py
14:50
EmilJ
Drawio is so nice and then I spend 75% of the time just moving the dang connection points to the right place on the edges of the boxes...
14:50
vup
yeah same
14:50
vup
although If i actually wanted to have a nice looking diagram I would use tikz
14:50
vup
but I can understand not wanting to do that
14:51
EmilJ
so I'm currently finishing a block diagram of the framebuffer test, I'm drafting it with this cool framework called "mechanical pencil and squarey paper"
14:52
EmilJ
it's a robust tool but pretty time intensive and you can't easily move objects around :D
14:52
vup
yeah
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BAndiT1983|away
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16:35
BAndiT1983
EmilJ: as yed, draw.io and plantuml allow custom shapes and also connection points (at least to some extent), you just have to find which tool is more suitable for you, have used custom shapes only in draw.io so far, in other tools there were enough options for my needs
16:52
BAndiT1983
probably SysML is something in that direction -> https://modeling-languages.com/sysml-extension-ecad-electrical-cable-design/
21:53
EmilJ
Fascinating. I'll look into the usability of extending SysML and using it in existing tools
21:53
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22:22
BAndiT1983
EmilJ: you can try also to limit connections in draw.io to certain positions, so you can imitate the buffer/sink etc. -> https://desk.draw.io/support/solutions/articles/16000042498-how-to-add-remove-connection-points-how-to-connect-anywhere-on-a-shape-
22:22
BAndiT1983
https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/44953/add-more-fix-points-to-a-data-flow-diagram-using-draw-io
22:30
EmilJ
that is really nice!
22:30
BAndiT1983
especially large arrows are looking like ones in your example -> https://drawio-app.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/drawio-connector-styles2.png
22:30
EmilJ
The last thing I'd miss is clumping blocks together hierarchically though
22:30
BAndiT1983
so with a bit of SVG or so, you can achieve nice custom library of controls, which you can re-use, jsut tried it a bit in the offline version of draw.io
22:31
BAndiT1983
do you have an example for that?
22:31
EmilJ
The only way I do "hierarchy" (a thing with things in it) is by putting a large rectangle in the background
22:31
EmilJ
hold on
22:31
EmilJ
https://gitlab.com/tywonemi-school-stuff/silicon-radar-fun/-/raw/stable/hardware_arch.png
22:31
EmilJ
rounded rectangle, just... sent to background
22:32
EmilJ
oh also those dashed arrows were a pain. They can't really bifurcate...
22:34
BAndiT1983
we have used containers for that -> https://drawio-app.com/create-a-container-shape-in-draw-io/#:~:text=Turn%20any%20shape%20into%20a,Collapse%2FExpand%20from%20the%20menu.
22:34
BAndiT1983
will check tomorrow about shapes as containers, as we used it in a grid like arrangement to show software architecture layers with several sections
22:36
EmilJ
Well, that settles it then. Now all that's left is either find or start a library of symbols for digital/electronic elements!
22:36
BAndiT1983
drag a shape into the docs, then Arrange -> Group on it, then drag other shapes into it,
22:37
BAndiT1983
yep, done similar stuff for my colleagues in my former job, but for UI elements in pencil (https://pencil.evolus.vn/), it simplifies the work immense if you have some lib and define some tool which everybody can use
22:37
BAndiT1983
off for today, good night
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BAndiT1983
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22:37
EmilJ
Good night!
22:40
EmilJ
And thank you