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08:53 | Tanos | Goood morning everyone!
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09:01 | Bertl | morning Tanos!
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10:15 | Bertl | off for a nap ... bbl
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14:27 | Bertl | back now ...
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15:54 | se6astian | https://www.apertus.org/axiom-team-talk-volume-12.3-article-march-2017 is out
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15:54 | se6astian | AXIOM Team Talk Volume 12.3: Sample Footage!!!
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15:54 | se6astian | with the best ever article teaser image
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15:54 | se6astian | https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/styles/teaser/public/field/image/TT12.3-cover.jpg?itok=JD_5xMJy
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16:04 | Roopal08 | Hey , will BAndiT1983 be coming online today ?
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16:05 | se6astian | I think he will
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16:05 | se6astian | just finishing his dayjob work now
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16:07 | Roopal08 | okkay . Thanks.
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16:34 | BAndiT1983 | Roopal08: you had some questions?
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16:43 | Roopal08 | yeah . can you tell me which is the class which I should look to get the path to the image in OCCore.
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16:44 | Roopal08 | I can't find any execuatble file in OCCore so that I can run it and check from where is it getting the image.
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16:44 | Roopal08 | when I grepped "ThumbnailProvider" in OCBackup, it shows that QMLThumbProvider is used as class where as in OCCore , it shows ThumbnailProvider as the class.
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16:44 | Roopal08 | ThumbNailProvider.h doesn't have any implementation
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16:45 | BAndiT1983 | OCcore and also OCui are shared libraries, .so under Linux and .dll under Windows
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16:45 | BAndiT1983 | they are used by several modules
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16:45 | BAndiT1983 | you should take a look at ProcessingTest which uses both and is a playground to test features, also image loading
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16:46 | BAndiT1983 | if thumbnail provider is empty and QML one is filled, so which one you should look at?
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16:47 | BAndiT1983 | as the proof of concept was done quickly, so i haven't moved the code to thumbnail provider class and put it directly into QML thumbnail provider, cleanup and restructuring is still on the list
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16:49 | Roopal08 | Yeah . Actually i found the class and object which does that. I just couldn't find the path where i should place a .dng image
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16:50 | BAndiT1983 | i told you before that ProcessingTest is the right module to start, it already loads files, but the path has to be adjusted there, if i remember correctly in ProcessingTest.cpp
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16:50 | Roopal08 | Yeah. It does load files.
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16:50 | BAndiT1983 | take a look at ProcessingPresenter.cpp
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16:51 | Roopal08 | since you told me that its already been done in OCCore and OCBackup , so i was trying to figure out there
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16:51 | Roopal08 | that from where r they reading the image from
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16:51 | BAndiT1983 | the presenter contains such lines like provider->Load(...), there it is loaded
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16:52 | BAndiT1983 | the whole routine is placed there, as i wanted to test several thing and splitting afterwards
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16:53 | Roopal08 | Yeah , it does loading , but from where ? Currently It is not able to load anything , because the path is not givem correct
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16:53 | BAndiT1983 | OCcore is still not a module but a library, OCBackup and ProcessingTest are using it for core functionality, also OCui uses OCcore
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16:53 | BAndiT1983 | you have to correct the path
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16:53 | BAndiT1983 | provider->Load("darklab-frame00004.dng", FileFormat::DNG, *_image.get(), *poolAllocator);
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16:54 | BAndiT1983 | just put a path to the DNG file you have
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17:01 | Roopal08 | Okay. Will try that by directly putting path there , in some time.
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17:23 | mash_ | hi -- is there anybody here, who is involved in the apertus GSoC process?
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17:24 | BAndiT1983 | hi, which part?
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17:24 | Bertl | mash_: you can assume that somebody is here :)
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17:25 | BAndiT1983 | and i assume FPGA, then it's Bertl :P
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17:25 | mash_ | hmmm... -- i'm quite incertain -- linux programming, camera control and also a little bit of interst in hardware development
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17:25 | BAndiT1983 | let me guess, sobel filter?
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17:26 | se6astian | I just saw your comment in https://lab.apertus.org/T734
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17:26 | se6astian | so its actually live waveforms and histograms you are interested in, am I right?
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17:26 | mash_ | yes -- and i'm quite sure, you know me from other forums and virtual discussions as well... :)
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17:27 | mash_ | i'm living in graz austria and are working in the fiels of media artes and devolopment of all the needed software and hardware for a view decades now...
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17:29 | mash_ | no -- it's not only histograms and waveforms, which i'm interested in... but it's in fact a very important feature if you use tools like natron often for more general purpose tasks
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17:29 | se6astian | great!
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17:30 | mash_ | right now i'm for example actualy working on a color calibration plugin for natron, as you may know it from resolve...
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17:31 | mash_ | i did a lot of related work two years, when i was calculating ACES profiles for the GH4...
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17:34 | mash_ | but in fact i would be really interested, if there is a chance, to partizipate in the apertus project -- not only in the context of GSoC, but that was the final stimulus to contact you ;)
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17:41 | mash_ | in fact, i have to say, i'm not a big fan of Google at all! i allways liked to stay independed and establich alternative infrastructure with friend (e.g. mur.at here in graz) to keep them in distance -- so i do nat have an gmail account right now and aren't even able to read the related mailinglist :(
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17:44 | se6astian | there is a chance to partizipate in the apertus project ? <- of course there is!
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17:44 | mash_ | that's fine!
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17:45 | se6astian | and color profiling is already something very interesting for us
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17:45 | se6astian | eg aces
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17:45 | se6astian | there was just an email from a couple of days ago where someone asked about aces
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17:45 | se6astian | and if the beta could capture footage in aces colorspace natively
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17:45 | se6astian | we had concerns about the bandwidth requirements for EXR though
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17:46 | mash_ | in practice i always had lots of sympathy for the apertus and allways watched it -- but for may practical work with cameras i had to choose cheaper ready made products...
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17:47 | se6astian | then lets change that :)
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17:48 | mash_ | ACES is nothing spectcular... it's more or less just the standardization of workflows, whiche are very common in tools like nuke/natron ant other OpenColorIO based solutions...
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17:49 | mash_ | in general i think, natron is very intersting starting point for many tasks!
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17:49 | mash_ | it's the only useful 32bit open source video processing framework ...
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17:51 | mash_ | sure -- it has all the limitations of a shot based envrionnment. but i think, it's often more effictive to write addons for this application, instead of reinventing the wheel by other projects...
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17:53 | mash_ | i don't konw, if it really makes sense for a camera to export ACES EXRs -- pure raw access and later processing is much more useful!
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17:54 | se6astian | that was also our approach
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17:54 | se6astian | also keeping bayer data intact
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17:54 | mash_ | yes! -- that's the way to go!
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17:55 | se6astian | We are thinking about an OpenCine Frameserver though to serve different kinds of formats generated in realtime from the raw file
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17:55 | se6astian | aces could be an additional output
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17:56 | se6astian | frameserver through vapoursynth is the current plan: https://lab.apertus.org/T763
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17:56 | mash_ | could you give me a a short hint, why OpenCine is so central for you?
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17:57 | mash_ | i'm just asking, because good libraw support in an openfx generator plugin, taht could be used by many applications would give users more freedom IMHO
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17:58 | mash_ | otherwise it looks somhow closed like GoPros raw handling...
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18:01 | se6astian | BAndiT1983 will be able to share his thoughts about libraw and why he abandoned using it
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18:03 | BAndiT1983 | libraw has some awful inteface, so i dropped it a long time ago
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18:04 | mash_ | well it doesn't have to be libraw itself... but i would prefer a openfx over frameservers nowadays.
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18:04 | BAndiT1983 | i decided against doing a wrapper for it, as i was frustrated to search for every little bit of info where it contains which part of the image
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18:05 | BAndiT1983 | openfx ist just a plugin lib, frameserver has other purposes and is meant for wider use
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18:05 | mash_ | it's a much better solution to handel the neccesary memory transfers more efficient.
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18:05 | BAndiT1983 | not a fan of giving away the control over memory
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18:06 | mash_ | no -- openfx generator are simply filereaders... sure thy have ther limitatations (e.g. no sound and timcode), but that's the case with frameservers just as well
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18:06 | BAndiT1983 | especially in times of c++11/14/17
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18:06 | BAndiT1983 | now you have to elaborate how frame server is limited there
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18:07 | mash_ | yes -- therfor i vote for doing it in RUST! -- it also helps to minimize alle the troubles with buggy plugins! ;)
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18:07 | BAndiT1983 | sure, if you implement it
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18:09 | mash_ | hmmm -- it's really harde to argue against frameservers... the somehow look very oldfashiond to me, in times, where we try to utilize GPUs as mmuch as possible and minimize cross aplication/hardware transfers...
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18:09 | BAndiT1983 | i think you don't fully understand what a frame server is
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18:10 | mash_ | yes -- you are right! :) it's always easier to have a plausible anser, than to write a working implemenation...
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18:12 | BAndiT1983 | i suppose that every video-related application uses VRAM / RAM transfer a lot, so it's no problem to utilize GPU and CPU in hybrid mode
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18:12 | BAndiT1983 | for me the frame server is just a provider of generalized video file, which can be used by every app which supports AVI or similar
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18:12 | mash_ | well -- i may be wrong in my underatanding of frameservers, but i think, i have a vage idee how it usually workes... especilly in the avisynth//vapoursynth tradidition
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18:13 | BAndiT1983 | how i load videos or process them is up to me
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18:13 | BAndiT1983 | so performance is not the biggest problem
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18:14 | BAndiT1983 | with 4k it's more of IO throughput
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18:14 | mash_ | hmm... i think, vor some tasks it doesn't matter if it's a little bit slower, and i like applications that do not require any super expensive hardware to work acceptable
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18:15 | mash_ | but it's also nice, if we do/design solutions in amore state of the art fashion...
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18:16 | BAndiT1983 | have not seen many applicatios using openfx, so we decided to use frame server for that
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18:18 | mash_ | openfx is also quite conservative in this respect. it isn't prepared to reuse e.g. SPIR-V buffers/textures etc. right now. but simple reuse of OpenGL contexts is possible, and that opens some very interesting possibilites to handel things faster than by other more simpe approaches.
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18:21 | mash_ | but, please don't get me wrong... i'm more in brainstorming mood right now... i don't want to convince you about anything utterly unrealistic...
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18:21 | BAndiT1983 | the problem is to have enough maintainers for such things, i like new technology, but sometimes one has to settle with mature one as there are not enough people to manage it
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18:21 | mash_ | right!
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18:23 | mash_ | but i think, natron could be a really intersting platform to realize the necessary modules with minmal efforts.
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18:24 | mash_ | ther is so much useful code in it... it's often much better to reuse it, insted of writing another solution from scartch.
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18:24 | BAndiT1983 | maybe, but opencine started 3,5 years ago, so won't kill it off, just because there is already something
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18:25 | BAndiT1983 | so the frame server will be attached and maybe finds it useful
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18:25 | BAndiT1983 | *maybe someone
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18:25 | mash_ | and the way how you can customize natron, build your own groups (pyplugs) and openfx plugin for specific tasks is increadable attractive for a wider comutiy to partizipate....
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18:27 | mash_ | you are right, a few years agao, the situation looked quite differnt... nobody hadd expected, that something like natron could appear.
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18:28 | mash_ | and in fact it doesen't make much differnce... a frameserver client for openfx applications could be written just as well...
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18:28 | BAndiT1983 | OC was never meant to be like natron, so it was never in my interest to extend it
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18:28 | BAndiT1983 | still, why should one write a server in openfx if it's not widely used?
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18:29 | BAndiT1983 | forget the question, i'm just rather tired from work
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18:30 | BAndiT1983 | frame server does not need a client, it provides an AVI file for applications like natron or AE to work with video and audio data
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18:31 | BAndiT1983 | so the client is some video editor or player
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18:32 | mash_ | i think, openfx is quite well supported in high end software.
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18:33 | BAndiT1983 | maybe, but just a handful of open ones -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenFX_(API)
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18:34 | mash_ | on of the significant differnce between an ofx plugin and a framserver is the fact, tht you do not need a another application runing at the same time, becaus the ofx plugin aslo gives you the neccessary GUI to control the RAW development from any host application.
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18:37 | mash_ | yes -- there is not much free software around, that supports openfx, but most free video software doesn't support anything beyond 8bit processing as well. :(
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18:38 | mash_ | and if you look for the more more professional grade solutions, which do support 32bit processing, they usually also support openfx.
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18:39 | BAndiT1983 | my focus is open source, i don't care about professional systems as i don't have the money to buy and use them
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18:39 | BAndiT1983 | so i will proceed with OC regardless of natron, as it's done for other pruposes
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18:39 | mash_ | it's just the smalest common denominator in actual high end video processing...
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18:41 | mash_ | i totally understand your point of view! it's perfectly fine to me! i just think, its somehow a contratiction given apertus goals...
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18:42 | BAndiT1983 | how so?
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18:43 | Roopal08 | <BAndiT1983> I can view the image , but the display shows only the R channel . Here's the screenshot of it https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0Xb3WJpS5dFbmE1cDZRT2l0eGs/view?usp=sharing
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18:43 | mash_ | because this kind of qualities (raw processing, full control iver the internal workflow of the canera...) is usually strongly connected to high end / professional needs.
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18:44 | BAndiT1983 | alright, then i will kill the project and leave apertus project, there is no point in developing it further as there are better professional solutions
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18:45 | BAndiT1983 | no point in developing open source it seems, reddit thread from yesterday told it also
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18:45 | mash_ | i also like free software a lot, and use linux nearly exclusive since the early 90ths, but when it comes to me creative need, i somehow have to satisfy the quality critieria i'm aware of...
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18:46 | Bertl | so what software do you use and on what platform?
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18:46 | mash_ | no -- don't stop! -- go further! :)
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18:46 | BAndiT1983 | Roopal08: you have to debug it or press the buttons at the bottom, i used the application long ago
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18:47 | BAndiT1983 | why do you think that open-sourde cannot be done professionally?
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18:48 | Roopal08 | <BAndiT1983> If i disable red button , screen turns out black and rest Green and Blue button have no effect on image
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18:48 | BAndiT1983 | i have an engineers degree and work as software developer in my regular job, so i know different sides of things
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18:48 | mash_ | i really do most of my video editing and grading in a virtual windows machine runing resolve and GPU passtrough.
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18:49 | BAndiT1983 | have to switch to my other machine
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18:49 | mash_ | that is in fact the only application where i do not have an adequate linux alternative.
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18:49 | BAndiT1983|away | changed nick to: BAndiT1983
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18:50 | mash_ | but i was spending a lot of energy and frequently letters on the blackmagic forums, so that we could convice them to support linux equal to ther operating systems
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18:51 | mash_ | it's still a closed source application, but now it's availabe without cost on our platform as well.
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18:51 | BAndiT1983 | sorry Roopal08, but you have to debug what's wrong, i cannot guess and my dev environment is not available currently
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18:51 | mash_ | that's better then nothing!
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18:51 | Bertl | mash_: isn't Microsoft Windows professional enough for you? :)
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18:51 | Roopal08 | Ohh . cool . Will do that .
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18:52 | mash_ | and in fact, i think, it's very intersting how the borders bettween open source and commercial applicatens melt away.
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18:52 | BAndiT1983 | closed source is still closed
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18:53 | mash_ | because in the profesional video and film world linix is quite dominating for a long time (nuke/mistika/baselight/resolve) but all this tools were unaccesable to must of us.
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18:54 | mash_ | that's now changing slowly... many of this applications are now available in some form of training and non-commercial editions too
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18:54 | mash_ | and we cen learn a lot from them!
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18:54 | mash_ | i relly like to study good foraign software, to make littel things here in linux land better ;)
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18:56 | mash_ | open source solutions, which do not fullfill your expectations quality wise etc. are no real answer.
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18:57 | mash_ | when i like linux and many of its applications a lot, that's because it's better for my sepecific needs, not just because of some dogmaic point of view.
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18:59 | mash_ | !Bertl no i don't like windows so much! ;)
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19:00 | mash_ | i think, anybody should use whatever he likes -- and the differnces between linux desktops, macs and windoes arnet that drastic anymore -- but for my needs (developing and server operation) linux is simply fantastic!
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19:01 | mash_ | it's just very hard to build software for others in the necessary platform independend way...
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19:01 | Bertl | I really disagree there ...
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19:01 | BAndiT1983 | me too, CMake helps me a lot, OC runs under linux and windows in similar way
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19:02 | mash_ | yes -- but real issues are usually more related to subtilities, that are hard to solve on all platforms...
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19:05 | BAndiT1983 | solved that also, different implementations of drive handling, no problem there
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19:05 | BAndiT1983 | cmake loads linux classes or windows ones, depending on the environment
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19:13 | mash_ | btw. is somown of you at "diagonale" here in graz by chance? -- would be quite nice to comunicate and get a better insight in a more personal / efficent manner :)
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19:15 | BAndiT1983 | core team is in vienna, i'm on the other hand live in germany
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19:15 | BAndiT1983 | -'m
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19:19 | RexO | < Britain.
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19:20 | mash_ | yes -- i was more thinking about the collegues from vienna. ("diagonale" is the austrian film festival taking place this week here in graz)
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19:22 | BAndiT1983 | Rex, do you have to bypass a firewall toget on IRC soon when Brexit finishes? ;)
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19:22 | mash_ | but i also like this virtual discussions in a spread comunnity as well -- it's just not always a very efficent form of communication -- face to face meetings also have their advantages ;)
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19:25 | RexOrCine[m] | Maybe. Keeping me safe from the likes of you.
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19:27 | mash_ | :)
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19:28 | BAndiT1983 | make britain great again ;) i suppose it will lose great at first if scotland leaves
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19:28 | BAndiT1983 | but you can merge with france
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19:32 | RexOrCine[m] | It's all a big 50 year long social experiment man. Maulmutt laws are the only docs I'm interested in, but we're not supposed to know about those. I'm not sure about the 'Great' either I think that was early corporate nonsense.
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19:34 | RexOrCine[m] | ... marketing campaigns from the 1700s.
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19:36 | BAndiT1983 | britain has a long-coming story of conquerors and colonists
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19:37 | BAndiT1983 | also really interesting connections to france
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20:06 | Elbehery | This is my final proposal, any comments before submitting this ? [https://github.com/ELBe7ery/i2c_draft_gsoc/blob/master/Proposal/AbdelrahmanElbehery.md]
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20:07 | intracube_afk | changed nick to: intracube
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20:07 | Elbehery | fixed many grammar mistakes, spells and took into consideration all the gathered feedback
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20:09 | Bertl | the only thing I see which strictly isn't correct is the SCL_*/SDA_* connection between the ZYNQ SOC and the MachXO2
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20:10 | Bertl | because the SCL/SDA interface is on the 'inside' of MachXO2 and the ZYNQ PL
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20:10 | Bertl | but they actually communicate over one or two LVDS pairs
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20:10 | Bertl | (this is what T731 is all about)
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20:12 | BAndiT1983 | so i2c is "virtualized"?
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20:12 | Bertl | yup
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20:12 | Elbehery | ops, so sorry will fix this
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20:12 | Bertl | I call it 'transported' but that caused confusion as well
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20:13 | Bertl | Elbehery: so best keep the ZYNQ<->MachXO2 connection neutral
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20:13 | Bertl | i.e. 'some channel' no further details
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20:14 | Elbehery | Aha, okay
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20:14 | BAndiT1983 | does it have a special protocol for "transport" of i2c
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20:14 | BAndiT1983 | ?
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20:15 | Bertl | that is part of T731
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20:15 | BAndiT1983 | ah, alright
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20:25 | Elbehery | I have a question, the software PID controller that will be running on the ARM core on zynq, will it be something that schedule the code on the processor? i mean is it the only thing being executed on one of the cores ? or its a part of something else !
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20:27 | BAndiT1983 | shouldn't it be on FPGA side?
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20:27 | BAndiT1983 | PID in software is possible, but characteristics would be awkward i suppose
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20:27 | Bertl | Elbehery: it is running in Linux userspace
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20:28 | BAndiT1983 | in user space? is it sufficient enough?
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20:28 | Bertl | how fast do you think that a change in fan speed will influence the temperature?
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20:29 | BAndiT1983 | you are the hardware guy ;) i'm just asking
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20:29 | Bertl | well, I doubt that you need more than one decision per second
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20:30 | Elbehery | Aha so its just a process being executed on one of the cores
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20:30 | Bertl | BAndiT1983: getting the sensor data from the control daemon is probably way slower than the actual regulation loop
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20:31 | BAndiT1983 | maybe i should write it in VHDL or Verilog ;)
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20:31 | Bertl | maybe
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20:34 | Bertl | Elbehery: yes, it will simply be scheduled on one of the cores by the Linux kernel
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20:35 | Elbehery | All clear now :) thank you
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20:36 | Bertl | you're welcome!
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20:49 | mash_ | now i have got access and run down the existing proposals on your gsoc mailing list... ;)
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20:50 | mash_ | nice ideas!
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20:50 | se6astian | its progressing yes
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20:51 | mash_ | i don't know, if i'm really able to suggest somthing similar useful for the whole project...
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20:51 | mash_ | i have to sleep one night and reconsider the topic.
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20:53 | mash_ | most of the ideas i have in mind are not so much hardware related, but more conserning the gaps beteen other existing free software and common used software for artistic work.
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20:58 | intracube | erf, the black level is shifting up and down quite a bit on the raw tank test footage
| 20:58 | intracube | goes back to grading
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21:06 | se6astian | its not just raw, its superraw :)
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21:22 | se6astian | https://i.imgflip.com/1m9lyh.jpg
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21:25 | BAndiT1983 | memes are so 2016 ;)
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21:27 | intracube | I don't know about tasting photons, but they're slippery and hard to wrangle :)
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21:27 | BAndiT1983 | sounds rather like eel farm to me
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21:29 | intracube | a good analogy
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21:30 | Bertl | slippery, hard to wrangle and electrifying :)
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21:30 | BAndiT1983 | the floor in Bertls lab it seems
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21:30 | Bertl | all the photons here ... :P
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21:51 | se6astian | off to bed
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21:51 | se6astian | too many photons already
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21:51 | se6astian | good night
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21:51 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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22:02 | BAndiT1983 | changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
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22:58 | dh__ | did a quick and dirty regrade of the cat footage
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22:59 | dh__ | changed nick to: atoav
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22:59 | atoav | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FGANCAU7-c&feature=youtu.be
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23:09 | RexOrCine[m] | Are you on Twitter atoav?
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23:34 | Bertl | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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23:35 | Bertl | changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
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23:37 | mash_ | left the channel | |
23:48 | OnkelTem | left the channel | |
23:57 | Elbehery | left the channel | |
00:07 | arpu | left the channel | |
00:21 | arpu | joined the channel | |
00:39 | intracube | regrade of the tank footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEQcOqlCgqQ
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00:42 | intracube | atoav: nice work
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00:55 | intracube | changed nick to: intracube_afk
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