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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2017/03/28

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07:53
Tanos
Goood morning everyone!
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Bertl
morning Tanos!
09:15
Bertl
off for a nap ... bbl
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Bertl_zZ
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Bertl
back now ...
14:54
se6astian
https://www.apertus.org/axiom-team-talk-volume-12.3-article-march-2017 is out
14:54
se6astian
AXIOM Team Talk Volume 12.3: Sample Footage!!!
14:54
se6astian
with the best ever article teaser image
14:54
se6astian
https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/styles/teaser/public/field/image/TT12.3-cover.jpg?itok=JD_5xMJy
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Roopal08
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15:04
Roopal08
Hey , will BAndiT1983 be coming online today ?
15:05
se6astian
I think he will
15:05
se6astian
just finishing his dayjob work now
15:07
Roopal08
okkay . Thanks.
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15:34
BAndiT1983
Roopal08: you had some questions?
15:43
Roopal08
yeah . can you tell me which is the class which I should look to get the path to the image in OCCore.
15:44
Roopal08
I can't find any execuatble file in OCCore so that I can run it and check from where is it getting the image.
15:44
Roopal08
when I grepped "ThumbnailProvider" in OCBackup, it shows that QMLThumbProvider is used as class where as in OCCore , it shows ThumbnailProvider as the class.
15:44
Roopal08
ThumbNailProvider.h doesn't have any implementation
15:45
BAndiT1983
OCcore and also OCui are shared libraries, .so under Linux and .dll under Windows
15:45
BAndiT1983
they are used by several modules
15:45
BAndiT1983
you should take a look at ProcessingTest which uses both and is a playground to test features, also image loading
15:46
BAndiT1983
if thumbnail provider is empty and QML one is filled, so which one you should look at?
15:47
BAndiT1983
as the proof of concept was done quickly, so i haven't moved the code to thumbnail provider class and put it directly into QML thumbnail provider, cleanup and restructuring is still on the list
15:49
Roopal08
Yeah . Actually i found the class and object which does that. I just couldn't find the path where i should place a .dng image
15:50
BAndiT1983
i told you before that ProcessingTest is the right module to start, it already loads files, but the path has to be adjusted there, if i remember correctly in ProcessingTest.cpp
15:50
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15:50
Roopal08
Yeah. It does load files.
15:50
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15:50
BAndiT1983
take a look at ProcessingPresenter.cpp
15:51
Roopal08
since you told me that its already been done in OCCore and OCBackup , so i was trying to figure out there
15:51
Roopal08
that from where r they reading the image from
15:51
BAndiT1983
the presenter contains such lines like provider->Load(...), there it is loaded
15:52
BAndiT1983
the whole routine is placed there, as i wanted to test several thing and splitting afterwards
15:53
Roopal08
Yeah , it does loading , but from where ? Currently It is not able to load anything , because the path is not givem correct
15:53
BAndiT1983
OCcore is still not a module but a library, OCBackup and ProcessingTest are using it for core functionality, also OCui uses OCcore
15:53
BAndiT1983
you have to correct the path
15:53
BAndiT1983
provider->Load("darklab-frame00004.dng", FileFormat::DNG, *_image.get(), *poolAllocator);
15:54
BAndiT1983
just put a path to the DNG file you have
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16:01
Roopal08
Okay. Will try that by directly putting path there , in some time.
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16:23
mash_
hi -- is there anybody here, who is involved in the apertus GSoC process?
16:24
BAndiT1983
hi, which part?
16:24
Bertl
mash_: you can assume that somebody is here :)
16:25
BAndiT1983
and i assume FPGA, then it's Bertl :P
16:25
mash_
hmmm... -- i'm quite incertain -- linux programming, camera control and also a little bit of interst in hardware development
16:25
BAndiT1983
let me guess, sobel filter?
16:26
se6astian
I just saw your comment in https://lab.apertus.org/T734
16:26
se6astian
so its actually live waveforms and histograms you are interested in, am I right?
16:26
mash_
yes -- and i'm quite sure, you know me from other forums and virtual discussions as well... :)
16:27
mash_
i'm living in graz austria and are working in the fiels of media artes and devolopment of all the needed software and hardware for a view decades now...
16:29
mash_
no -- it's not only histograms and waveforms, which i'm interested in... but it's in fact a very important feature if you use tools like natron often for more general purpose tasks
16:29
se6astian
great!
16:30
mash_
right now i'm for example actualy working on a color calibration plugin for natron, as you may know it from resolve...
16:31
mash_
i did a lot of related work two years, when i was calculating ACES profiles for the GH4...
16:34
mash_
but in fact i would be really interested, if there is a chance, to partizipate in the apertus project -- not only in the context of GSoC, but that was the final stimulus to contact you ;)
16:38
niemand
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16:41
mash_
in fact, i have to say, i'm not a big fan of Google at all! i allways liked to stay independed and establich alternative infrastructure with friend (e.g. mur.at here in graz) to keep them in distance -- so i do nat have an gmail account right now and aren't even able to read the related mailinglist :(
16:44
se6astian
there is a chance to partizipate in the apertus project ? <- of course there is!
16:44
mash_
that's fine!
16:45
se6astian
and color profiling is already something very interesting for us
16:45
se6astian
eg aces
16:45
se6astian
there was just an email from a couple of days ago where someone asked about aces
16:45
se6astian
and if the beta could capture footage in aces colorspace natively
16:45
se6astian
we had concerns about the bandwidth requirements for EXR though
16:46
mash_
in practice i always had lots of sympathy for the apertus and allways watched it -- but for may practical work with cameras i had to choose cheaper ready made products...
16:47
se6astian
then lets change that :)
16:48
mash_
ACES is nothing spectcular... it's more or less just the standardization of workflows, whiche are very common in tools like nuke/natron ant other OpenColorIO based solutions...
16:49
mash_
in general i think, natron is very intersting starting point for many tasks!
16:49
mash_
it's the only useful 32bit open source video processing framework ...
16:51
mash_
sure -- it has all the limitations of a shot based envrionnment. but i think, it's often more effictive to write addons for this application, instead of reinventing the wheel by other projects...
16:53
mash_
i don't konw, if it really makes sense for a camera to export ACES EXRs -- pure raw access and later processing is much more useful!
16:54
se6astian
that was also our approach
16:54
se6astian
also keeping bayer data intact
16:54
mash_
yes! -- that's the way to go!
16:55
se6astian
We are thinking about an OpenCine Frameserver though to serve different kinds of formats generated in realtime from the raw file
16:55
se6astian
aces could be an additional output
16:56
se6astian
frameserver through vapoursynth is the current plan: https://lab.apertus.org/T763
16:56
mash_
could you give me a a short hint, why OpenCine is so central for you?
16:57
mash_
i'm just asking, because good libraw support in an openfx generator plugin, taht could be used by many applications would give users more freedom IMHO
16:58
mash_
otherwise it looks somhow closed like GoPros raw handling...
17:01
se6astian
BAndiT1983 will be able to share his thoughts about libraw and why he abandoned using it
17:03
BAndiT1983
libraw has some awful inteface, so i dropped it a long time ago
17:04
mash_
well it doesn't have to be libraw itself... but i would prefer a openfx over frameservers nowadays.
17:04
BAndiT1983
i decided against doing a wrapper for it, as i was frustrated to search for every little bit of info where it contains which part of the image
17:05
BAndiT1983
openfx ist just a plugin lib, frameserver has other purposes and is meant for wider use
17:05
mash_
it's a much better solution to handel the neccesary memory transfers more efficient.
17:05
BAndiT1983
not a fan of giving away the control over memory
17:06
mash_
no -- openfx generator are simply filereaders... sure thy have ther limitatations (e.g. no sound and timcode), but that's the case with frameservers just as well
17:06
BAndiT1983
especially in times of c++11/14/17
17:06
BAndiT1983
now you have to elaborate how frame server is limited there
17:07
mash_
yes -- therfor i vote for doing it in RUST! -- it also helps to minimize alle the troubles with buggy plugins! ;)
17:07
BAndiT1983
sure, if you implement it
17:09
mash_
hmmm -- it's really harde to argue against frameservers... the somehow look very oldfashiond to me, in times, where we try to utilize GPUs as mmuch as possible and minimize cross aplication/hardware transfers...
17:09
BAndiT1983
i think you don't fully understand what a frame server is
17:10
mash_
yes -- you are right! :) it's always easier to have a plausible anser, than to write a working implemenation...
17:12
BAndiT1983
i suppose that every video-related application uses VRAM / RAM transfer a lot, so it's no problem to utilize GPU and CPU in hybrid mode
17:12
BAndiT1983
for me the frame server is just a provider of generalized video file, which can be used by every app which supports AVI or similar
17:12
mash_
well -- i may be wrong in my underatanding of frameservers, but i think, i have a vage idee how it usually workes... especilly in the avisynth//vapoursynth tradidition
17:13
BAndiT1983
how i load videos or process them is up to me
17:13
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17:13
BAndiT1983
so performance is not the biggest problem
17:14
BAndiT1983
with 4k it's more of IO throughput
17:14
mash_
hmm... i think, vor some tasks it doesn't matter if it's a little bit slower, and i like applications that do not require any super expensive hardware to work acceptable
17:15
mash_
but it's also nice, if we do/design solutions in amore state of the art fashion...
17:16
BAndiT1983
have not seen many applicatios using openfx, so we decided to use frame server for that
17:18
mash_
openfx is also quite conservative in this respect. it isn't prepared to reuse e.g. SPIR-V buffers/textures etc. right now. but simple reuse of OpenGL contexts is possible, and that opens some very interesting possibilites to handel things faster than by other more simpe approaches.
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17:21
mash_
but, please don't get me wrong... i'm more in brainstorming mood right now... i don't want to convince you about anything utterly unrealistic...
17:21
BAndiT1983
the problem is to have enough maintainers for such things, i like new technology, but sometimes one has to settle with mature one as there are not enough people to manage it
17:21
mash_
right!
17:23
mash_
but i think, natron could be a really intersting platform to realize the necessary modules with minmal efforts.
17:24
mash_
ther is so much useful code in it... it's often much better to reuse it, insted of writing another solution from scartch.
17:24
BAndiT1983
maybe, but opencine started 3,5 years ago, so won't kill it off, just because there is already something
17:25
BAndiT1983
so the frame server will be attached and maybe finds it useful
17:25
BAndiT1983
*maybe someone
17:25
mash_
and the way how you can customize natron, build your own groups (pyplugs) and openfx plugin for specific tasks is increadable attractive for a wider comutiy to partizipate....
17:27
mash_
you are right, a few years agao, the situation looked quite differnt... nobody hadd expected, that something like natron could appear.
17:28
mash_
and in fact it doesen't make much differnce... a frameserver client for openfx applications could be written just as well...
17:28
BAndiT1983
OC was never meant to be like natron, so it was never in my interest to extend it
17:28
BAndiT1983
still, why should one write a server in openfx if it's not widely used?
17:29
BAndiT1983
forget the question, i'm just rather tired from work
17:30
BAndiT1983
frame server does not need a client, it provides an AVI file for applications like natron or AE to work with video and audio data
17:31
BAndiT1983
so the client is some video editor or player
17:32
mash_
i think, openfx is quite well supported in high end software.
17:33
BAndiT1983
maybe, but just a handful of open ones -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenFX_(API)
17:34
mash_
on of the significant differnce between an ofx plugin and a framserver is the fact, tht you do not need a another application runing at the same time, becaus the ofx plugin aslo gives you the neccessary GUI to control the RAW development from any host application.
17:37
mash_
yes -- there is not much free software around, that supports openfx, but most free video software doesn't support anything beyond 8bit processing as well. :(
17:38
mash_
and if you look for the more more professional grade solutions, which do support 32bit processing, they usually also support openfx.
17:39
BAndiT1983
my focus is open source, i don't care about professional systems as i don't have the money to buy and use them
17:39
BAndiT1983
so i will proceed with OC regardless of natron, as it's done for other pruposes
17:39
mash_
it's just the smalest common denominator in actual high end video processing...
17:41
mash_
i totally understand your point of view! it's perfectly fine to me! i just think, its somehow a contratiction given apertus goals...
17:42
BAndiT1983
how so?
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17:43
Roopal08
<BAndiT1983> I can view the image , but the display shows only the R channel . Here's the screenshot of it https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0Xb3WJpS5dFbmE1cDZRT2l0eGs/view?usp=sharing
17:43
mash_
because this kind of qualities (raw processing, full control iver the internal workflow of the canera...) is usually strongly connected to high end / professional needs.
17:44
BAndiT1983
alright, then i will kill the project and leave apertus project, there is no point in developing it further as there are better professional solutions
17:45
BAndiT1983
no point in developing open source it seems, reddit thread from yesterday told it also
17:45
mash_
i also like free software a lot, and use linux nearly exclusive since the early 90ths, but when it comes to me creative need, i somehow have to satisfy the quality critieria i'm aware of...
17:46
Bertl
so what software do you use and on what platform?
17:46
mash_
no -- don't stop! -- go further! :)
17:46
BAndiT1983
Roopal08: you have to debug it or press the buttons at the bottom, i used the application long ago
17:47
BAndiT1983
why do you think that open-sourde cannot be done professionally?
17:48
Roopal08
<BAndiT1983> If i disable red button , screen turns out black and rest Green and Blue button have no effect on image
17:48
BAndiT1983
i have an engineers degree and work as software developer in my regular job, so i know different sides of things
17:48
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17:48
mash_
i really do most of my video editing and grading in a virtual windows machine runing resolve and GPU passtrough.
17:49
BAndiT1983
have to switch to my other machine
17:49
BAndiT1983
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17:49
mash_
that is in fact the only application where i do not have an adequate linux alternative.
17:49
BAndiT1983|away
changed nick to: BAndiT1983
17:50
mash_
but i was spending a lot of energy and frequently letters on the blackmagic forums, so that we could convice them to support linux equal to ther operating systems
17:51
mash_
it's still a closed source application, but now it's availabe without cost on our platform as well.
17:51
BAndiT1983
sorry Roopal08, but you have to debug what's wrong, i cannot guess and my dev environment is not available currently
17:51
mash_
that's better then nothing!
17:51
Bertl
mash_: isn't Microsoft Windows professional enough for you? :)
17:51
Roopal08
Ohh . cool . Will do that .
17:52
mash_
and in fact, i think, it's very intersting how the borders bettween open source and commercial applicatens melt away.
17:52
BAndiT1983
closed source is still closed
17:53
mash_
because in the profesional video and film world linix is quite dominating for a long time (nuke/mistika/baselight/resolve) but all this tools were unaccesable to must of us.
17:54
mash_
that's now changing slowly... many of this applications are now available in some form of training and non-commercial editions too
17:54
mash_
and we cen learn a lot from them!
17:54
mash_
i relly like to study good foraign software, to make littel things here in linux land better ;)
17:56
niemand
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17:56
mash_
open source solutions, which do not fullfill your expectations quality wise etc. are no real answer.
17:57
mash_
when i like linux and many of its applications a lot, that's because it's better for my sepecific needs, not just because of some dogmaic point of view.
17:59
mash_
!Bertl no i don't like windows so much! ;)
18:00
mash_
i think, anybody should use whatever he likes -- and the differnces between linux desktops, macs and windoes arnet that drastic anymore -- but for my needs (developing and server operation) linux is simply fantastic!
18:01
mash_
it's just very hard to build software for others in the necessary platform independend way...
18:01
Bertl
I really disagree there ...
18:01
arpu
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18:01
BAndiT1983
me too, CMake helps me a lot, OC runs under linux and windows in similar way
18:02
mash_
yes -- but real issues are usually more related to subtilities, that are hard to solve on all platforms...
18:05
BAndiT1983
solved that also, different implementations of drive handling, no problem there
18:05
BAndiT1983
cmake loads linux classes or windows ones, depending on the environment
18:13
mash_
btw. is somown of you at "diagonale" here in graz by chance? -- would be quite nice to comunicate and get a better insight in a more personal / efficent manner :)
18:15
BAndiT1983
core team is in vienna, i'm on the other hand live in germany
18:15
BAndiT1983
-'m
18:19
RexO
< Britain.
18:20
mash_
yes -- i was more thinking about the collegues from vienna. ("diagonale" is the austrian film festival taking place this week here in graz)
18:22
BAndiT1983
Rex, do you have to bypass a firewall toget on IRC soon when Brexit finishes? ;)
18:22
mash_
but i also like this virtual discussions in a spread comunnity as well -- it's just not always a very efficent form of communication -- face to face meetings also have their advantages ;)
18:25
arpu
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18:25
RexOrCine[m]
Maybe. Keeping me safe from the likes of you.
18:27
mash_
:)
18:28
BAndiT1983
make britain great again ;) i suppose it will lose great at first if scotland leaves
18:28
BAndiT1983
but you can merge with france
18:32
RexOrCine[m]
It's all a big 50 year long social experiment man. Maulmutt laws are the only docs I'm interested in, but we're not supposed to know about those. I'm not sure about the 'Great' either I think that was early corporate nonsense.
18:34
RexOrCine[m]
... marketing campaigns from the 1700s.
18:36
BAndiT1983
britain has a long-coming story of conquerors and colonists
18:37
BAndiT1983
also really interesting connections to france
18:43
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19:02
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19:06
Spirit532
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19:06
Elbehery
This is my final proposal, any comments before submitting this ? [https://github.com/ELBe7ery/i2c_draft_gsoc/blob/master/Proposal/AbdelrahmanElbehery.md]
19:07
intracube_afk
changed nick to: intracube
19:07
Elbehery
fixed many grammar mistakes, spells and took into consideration all the gathered feedback
19:09
Bertl
the only thing I see which strictly isn't correct is the SCL_*/SDA_* connection between the ZYNQ SOC and the MachXO2
19:10
Bertl
because the SCL/SDA interface is on the 'inside' of MachXO2 and the ZYNQ PL
19:10
Bertl
but they actually communicate over one or two LVDS pairs
19:10
Bertl
(this is what T731 is all about)
19:12
BAndiT1983
so i2c is "virtualized"?
19:12
Bertl
yup
19:12
Elbehery
ops, so sorry will fix this
19:12
Bertl
I call it 'transported' but that caused confusion as well
19:13
Bertl
Elbehery: so best keep the ZYNQ<->MachXO2 connection neutral
19:13
Bertl
i.e. 'some channel' no further details
19:14
Elbehery
Aha, okay
19:14
BAndiT1983
does it have a special protocol for "transport" of i2c
19:14
BAndiT1983
?
19:15
Bertl
that is part of T731
19:15
BAndiT1983
ah, alright
19:25
Elbehery
I have a question, the software PID controller that will be running on the ARM core on zynq, will it be something that schedule the code on the processor? i mean is it the only thing being executed on one of the cores ? or its a part of something else !
19:27
BAndiT1983
shouldn't it be on FPGA side?
19:27
BAndiT1983
PID in software is possible, but characteristics would be awkward i suppose
19:27
Bertl
Elbehery: it is running in Linux userspace
19:28
BAndiT1983
in user space? is it sufficient enough?
19:28
Bertl
how fast do you think that a change in fan speed will influence the temperature?
19:29
BAndiT1983
you are the hardware guy ;) i'm just asking
19:29
Bertl
well, I doubt that you need more than one decision per second
19:30
Elbehery
Aha so its just a process being executed on one of the cores
19:30
Bertl
BAndiT1983: getting the sensor data from the control daemon is probably way slower than the actual regulation loop
19:31
BAndiT1983
maybe i should write it in VHDL or Verilog ;)
19:31
Bertl
maybe
19:34
Bertl
Elbehery: yes, it will simply be scheduled on one of the cores by the Linux kernel
19:35
Elbehery
All clear now :) thank you
19:36
Bertl
you're welcome!
19:43
Roopal08
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19:49
mash_
now i have got access and run down the existing proposals on your gsoc mailing list... ;)
19:50
mash_
nice ideas!
19:50
se6astian
its progressing yes
19:51
mash_
i don't know, if i'm really able to suggest somthing similar useful for the whole project...
19:51
mash_
i have to sleep one night and reconsider the topic.
19:53
mash_
most of the ideas i have in mind are not so much hardware related, but more conserning the gaps beteen other existing free software and common used software for artistic work.
19:58
intracube
erf, the black level is shifting up and down quite a bit on the raw tank test footage
19:58
intracube
goes back to grading
20:06
se6astian
its not just raw, its superraw :)
20:22
se6astian
https://i.imgflip.com/1m9lyh.jpg
20:25
BAndiT1983
memes are so 2016 ;)
20:27
intracube
I don't know about tasting photons, but they're slippery and hard to wrangle :)
20:27
BAndiT1983
sounds rather like eel farm to me
20:29
intracube
a good analogy
20:30
Bertl
slippery, hard to wrangle and electrifying :)
20:30
BAndiT1983
the floor in Bertls lab it seems
20:30
Bertl
all the photons here ... :P
20:51
se6astian
off to bed
20:51
se6astian
too many photons already
20:51
se6astian
good night
20:51
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
21:02
BAndiT1983
changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
21:58
dh__
did a quick and dirty regrade of the cat footage
21:59
dh__
changed nick to: atoav
21:59
atoav
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FGANCAU7-c&feature=youtu.be
22:09
RexOrCine[m]
Are you on Twitter atoav?
22:34
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
22:35
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
22:37
mash_
left the channel
22:48
OnkelTem
left the channel
22:57
Elbehery
left the channel
23:07
arpu
left the channel
23:21
arpu
joined the channel
23:39
intracube
regrade of the tank footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEQcOqlCgqQ
23:42
intracube
atoav: nice work
23:55
intracube
changed nick to: intracube_afk