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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2015/01/28

Timezone: UTC


00:36
slikdigit
hmmm. It could be hard coded bins could be tags instead, with reasonable per tag views
00:36
slikdigit
and search
01:41
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02:34
fsteinel_
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03:18
troy_s
slikdigit: Yes something like that is plausible. Hence why it is critical to think through the logging side of applications
04:01
intracube
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04:09
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
04:09
Bertl
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07:52
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08:13
niemand
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09:38
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
09:38
Bertl
morning folks!
10:08
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niemand
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13:03
davidak
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13:22
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13:56
danieel
troy_s: what is the best format for alpha channel? (separate stream - would a grayscale tiff do?)
13:57
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14:12
intracube
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14:34
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14:36
intracube
re. editing tools, kdenlive has a basic clip bin - select in/out points on a longer clip then drag the preview over to the bin to create a virtual clip
14:37
intracube
and the project format is xml so there's the possibility of converting to some standard EDL format
14:37
intracube
cc troy_s, slikdigit ^
14:39
intracube
which... I guess you guys already probably know :)
14:44
troy_s
danieel: An associated alpha TIFF would do, yes.
14:44
troy_s
Anything associated.
14:44
troy_s
(As in no PNG.)
14:45
Bertl
troy_s = PNG hater :)
14:45
troy_s
intracube: The issue is it is designed as an always online NLE = broken by design.
14:45
danieel
cant do PNG, would be slow as hell
14:45
troy_s
Bertl: Yep. Express a colored green gas emitting light with a PNG. See you in the afterlife... :)
14:46
danieel
so the alpha tiff is just a plain tiff, or some extra metadata is necessary to treat it as mask channel?
14:46
troy_s
(As in only associated alpha can express light as it exists.)
14:47
troy_s
danieel: Are you using it for lines?
14:47
troy_s
danieel: Or trying to darken a region?
14:47
danieel
also - is a lut common on 8 bit alphas? or we should aim for 16bits - its only for edges
14:47
danieel
using it for keying
14:48
danieel
but there is some water, so it is semitransparent
14:49
Bertl
troy_s: you're aware that PNG supports associated alpha and 16bit depths?
14:49
troy_s
danieel: Sorry... This is for post then?
14:50
danieel
yes, post
14:50
troy_s
Bertl: Nope. Junk format. No one uses it. Don't care that they revised it.
14:50
intracube
troy_s: oh ok, I don't know what that means in practice here
14:50
troy_s
danieel: Then you only need two formats. EXR and DPX. Keep your whole post pipe in EXR.
14:51
danieel
exr is always 16bit float or can it do other?
14:51
troy_s
danieel: Once you are in EXR, at the head, stay there until the very end.
14:51
troy_s
danieel: 16 or 32 float.
14:52
danieel
it is R3D for the video... that gets untouched, alpha is matched to it - so not sure how to call that input phase of post... but exr would do probably as well
14:52
troy_s
danieel: Always linear. There are plenty of metadata options if needed, including custom.
14:52
Bertl
the fact that many use it isn't any indication of the quality, no? just take GIF, which is probably the worst format ever (except for the microsoft bitmap format of course)
14:52
danieel
at least it looks pro and who can not handle it, is not enough pro for our data :)
14:53
troy_s
Bertl: No. No indication. Many say RGB is a colorspace. ;)
14:53
lab-bot
sebastian created T268: Exposure Compensation. http://lab.apertus.org/T268
14:53
troy_s
danieel: So you want to pull a key off water?
14:53
danieel
Bertl: I like png for reference frames, but for actual video (even archive) i would not use it
14:53
troy_s
Bertl: So yes... Fitting example. :)
14:53
troy_s
danieel: Reference frames = DPX
14:54
danieel
reference stills - like lossless
14:54
troy_s
Basically when you have to communicate a transfer curve or final frame, that is precisely what DPX was designed for.
14:54
troy_s
And if you are doing any sort of manipulation, that is what EXR was designed for. It extends well beyond that, of course.
14:55
danieel
i do not think it is yet normalized to 0...1 as nontransparent...fullytransparent, so it curve does not matter yet
14:55
danieel
*its
14:56
troy_s
For me it is a no brained.
14:56
troy_s
Brainer
14:56
troy_s
Just go to EXRs at the head for any and all post work, then DPX for archival frame purposes.
14:57
troy_s
(You could of course also go to DPX, then EXR as needed and leave untouched frames as DPX)
14:57
danieel
can exr/dpx use compression? the keys/alpha might have same colored regions
14:57
danieel
well compressible
14:57
troy_s
It really is a helluva logical path that will keep your data pristine.
14:57
troy_s
Lossless yes.
14:58
danieel
yes, lossless
14:58
troy_s
EXRs can use three types IIRC.
14:59
troy_s
DPXs, being typically log, have log-light compression.
14:59
troy_s
As well as RLE and possibly others
14:59
danieel
i would wonder if i can pick any compression algo specified... and everybody would be able to read it
15:00
troy_s
That can certainly be an issue. You should design to your post pipe and make sure everyone understands it.
15:00
danieel
i am not designing the post pipe
15:00
troy_s
If all you have is a bunch of ProRes twiddlers, then you have to design to that.
15:00
danieel
i need to deliver the original r3d with a matching alpha/key stream
15:01
troy_s
No, but I am saying you are somewhat constrained by the others.
15:01
danieel
yes, that might be the case as one of the options for format was QT :) hard to explain that to some people, that it is not a codec, just a container
15:02
troy_s
Oh yes. The joys of the cascading "Why!?!"
15:02
danieel
so it seems we are back at the tiff sequence, simple to read by anybody
15:02
danieel
who do exr would merge the r3d an the tiffs to their packed exr
15:03
niemand
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15:03
troy_s
danieel you will like this on "Why" http://youtu.be/wMFPe-DwULM
15:04
troy_s
So is exr
15:04
troy_s
The real issue is more complex
15:04
troy_s
If you want a proper comp, you need linear radiometric light composites.
15:05
troy_s
What are they comping in?
15:06
troy_s
AE?
15:06
danieel
we do not care really, we create and supply the alpha data
15:16
troy_s
Well... Then go for the EXR
15:17
troy_s
Also note that the alpha is inherently bound to the RGB in an associated format. Hard to go back and forth without care.
15:18
troy_s
danieel: Very challenging for example, to go from associated values of RGBA of 1.2,0.3,0.0,0.0 back and forth. :)
15:19
danieel
there is no going back, the data is real world capture
15:30
troy_s
danieel: So did they ship you the footage and want the plates back?
15:32
danieel
sort of yes
15:33
Bertl
off to grab some groceries ... bbl
15:33
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
15:33
troy_s
danieel: Complex shot or something?
15:34
danieel
if semitransparencies rate for complex then definitely
15:35
troy_s
LOL
15:44
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17:22
niemand
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17:36
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
17:42
se6astian
good evening
17:43
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17:57
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18:14
davidak1
hello se6astian
18:14
davidak1
i really like your video :3
18:15
davidak1
it would be nice to see some random videos of different parts of the project.
18:16
davidak1
like cnc milling, firmware programming and testing, funny bugs etc
18:18
Bertl_oO
developers eating a bowl of rice? :)
18:19
se6astian
great you liked it :D
18:19
se6astian
we will try to do more of this daily developer life in the future :)
18:19
niemand
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18:23
Bertl_oO
davidak1: I'm currently eating my lunch :)
18:23
se6astian
can I stop by and film you eating?
18:23
se6astian
though cooking it would have been more interesting to film? :)
18:23
Bertl_oO
sure, no problem
18:24
Bertl_oO
but you have to be quick, it's almost gone
18:26
se6astian
damn, last bite slow motion :D
18:38
Bertl_oO
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19:04
intracube
+1 for an unedited video of the first Beta case being milled :)
19:30
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19:37
Bertl
off for a nap ... bbl
19:37
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
20:02
niemand
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20:35
aombk
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20:36
aombk
greetings from liberated greece :P
20:40
niemand
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20:47
se6astian
hello!
20:47
se6astian
I heard you will hire all fired state officers back
20:48
niemand
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20:53
aombk
all unconstitutionally fired state officers yes
21:03
aombk
among other things. you disagree?
21:06
alexML_
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alexML
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21:18
designbybeck_
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21:48
troy_s
I give up.
22:15
lab-bot
BAndiT1983 committed rOPENCINE5d4c48680f5e: - Prototype: WIP, Commiting for backup (authored by BAndiT1983).
22:21
troy_s
slikdigit: Good god. That was pathetic.
22:26
aombk
what are you talking about
22:37
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
22:37
Bertl
back now ...
22:41
niemand
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22:43
se6astian
time for bed
22:49
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
22:53
Bertl
good night!
22:56
slikdigit
troy_s: what was pathetic?
23:02
troy_s
slikdigit: the discussion over in PiTiVi. God.