Current Server Time: 14:07 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2014/10/27

Timezone: UTC


00:00
Rebelj12a
I mean it is gpu based but to run on a phone gpu it would have to be pretty light I would think
00:00
wescotte
Phone GPUs are pretty powerful
00:01
Rebelj12a
Hm
00:01
wescotte
Look at the games you can play on them
00:02
Rebelj12a
true true
00:02
wescotte
I bet the typical phone GPU is more powerful than the PS2/Original XBox GPUs
00:03
wescotte
Bertl: Well, now I have an excuse to figure out how to use the lab...
00:03
Rebelj12a
Oh yeah most likely, doesnt mean they can interpret the shaders and physics as well but thats cpu processing although phones are getting really good at handing that off to gpu
00:03
Rebelj12a
Haha
00:05
Rebelj12a
Bah yeah nevermind, research yielded opengl as the best
00:06
Rebelj12a
Is it a pic32mx or MZ EC? or something else entirely?
00:07
Rebelj12a
bah ill check the wiki
00:08
Bertl
PIC32MZ
00:08
Rebelj12a
mz ok
00:08
Rebelj12a
On Arch Linux good choice
00:08
Bertl
probably on bare metal
00:09
Bertl
Arch will be running on the FPGA core(s) though
00:23
wescotte
How long does it typically take to program an FPGA? Is it a static amount of time or does it depend on the complexity of the code?
00:24
Bertl
what exactly do you mean with 'program'?
00:25
wescotte
Is it like blitting to a frame buffer but instead of pixels it's enabling/disabling gates?
00:26
Bertl
somewhat similar, the gates are all there and in fixed places, also the 'wiring'. what you configure is basically connections on intersecting wires
00:27
Bertl
and lookup tables
00:27
wescotte
I don't know much about them.. Do you change the lookup tables on the fly too?
00:28
wescotte
Or does that get too complicated?
00:28
Bertl
they can be changes by a mechanism called dynamic reconfiguration, which is supported on some FPGAs
00:28
Bertl
*changed
00:29
Bertl
basically all but the simplest gates are actually lookup tables
00:29
wescotte
So you can basically do almost an inturrupt and reprogram the entire thing to do a specific task and once done revert back the original design?
00:30
Bertl
if you don't mind that in the meantime everything else won't work, yes
00:30
wescotte
So you could build complex instructions as you need them
00:31
wescotte
I just wasn't sure how fast you could reprogram it completely
00:31
Bertl
the FPGA is not a processor, it is more like a breadboard
00:31
wescotte
right
00:32
Bertl
but you can 'build' a processor in the FPGA
00:32
Bertl
which then can execute complex instructions
00:33
wescotte
I just was curious how you can "wire the breadboard"
00:33
Bertl
by uploading a bitstream :)
00:34
Rebelj12a
Shouldnt.... shouldnt have joined the lab.... tooo many things to post..........
00:35
wescotte
Bertl: okay, wasn't sure if there was some physical "reaction" that limited how fast it could go. Sorta like a CD-rW erasing/writing where it needs a specific amount of light for a specific duration before it can flip
00:36
Bertl
well, yes, it takes some time as the bandwidth for uploading the bitstream is not that great
00:36
wescotte
Bertl: So it's basically a grid of gates that are all physically wired together and via a lookup table determines the actual paths?
00:37
Bertl
basically there are a huge number of mosfet transistors, which are controlled by a bitstream
00:37
Bertl
all of them create connections in the existing fabric
00:38
Bertl
parts of the fabric are 'wires', other parts are lookup tables (they are forming the gates) and again other parts are hardened parts (i.e. special electronics)
00:40
Bertl
http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home2010/vipin2/publications/esl2013-vipin.pdf
00:40
Bertl
(some info regarding efficient partial reconfiguration)
00:43
wescotte
I guess what I was originally trying to ask was if it's common for FGPAs to create new instructions on the fly.. A compiler will optimize chunks of code to use SIMDs if they exist. So if you have code to detect that sort of thing for your FGPA it could create that instruction on the fly and use it
00:44
wescotte
Or do you have to writ the whole thing at once
00:44
wescotte
I apologize if I'm not making any sense :)
00:45
Bertl
I know what you mean but it doesn't make much sense :)
00:45
Bertl
think of the FPGA like this:
00:45
Bertl
you have on one side 64 inputs from the sensor
00:46
Bertl
and on the other side 4 outputs to an HDMI connector
00:46
wescotte
I think my mistake is trying to implement a cpu on a FGPA. They're more about single task then general purpose?
00:47
Bertl
now you design a circuit (not a program) to retrieve the data from the sensor, reorder it, encode it and transmit it with a different data rate over those four outpus
00:47
Bertl
*outputs
00:47
Bertl
there is no program, unless you create a soft cpu (as circuit) in the FPGA
00:48
Bertl
in theory, that soft cpu could use the reconfiguration interface to do some kind of just in time SIMD reconfiguration to 'speed up' processing
00:49
Bertl
practically the overhead for this would be way larger than doing the same with a normal CPU or even better with predefined circuits in the FPGA
00:50
wescotte
So above when you said "Arch will be running on the FPGA core(s)" you are creating a soft cpu for that?
00:50
Bertl
no, there are two hardened arm cores in the zynq
00:51
Bertl
we will be using those, but we could create a soft CPU as well
00:51
wescotte
okay I see now
00:51
Bertl
(only it would waste FPGA resources in our case)
00:52
wescotte
So what tasks are you intending to use the FPGAs for? Taking the sensor data, debayering, and creating the 3 HDMI streams?
00:54
Bertl
for example
01:00
wescotte
I have a lot of catching up to do. I've been programming as a hobby for at least 25 years now but I keep getting further and further away from the metal.
01:02
wescotte
which is why i was originally asking about UI stuff. I might actually be able to contribute there :)
01:08
Bertl
well, if you can get comfortable with designing UI stuff in C, then why not
01:17
wescotte
Cuz that's no fun :)
01:17
Rebelj12a
haha
01:29
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01:30
Bertl
Elite had a quite spectacular GUI and '3D' rendering with way less than we have on the hardware side :)
01:32
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01:34
Rebelj12a2
hmm
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04:12
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
04:12
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
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08:45
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
08:46
se6astian
good morning
09:02
danieel
hi seb.. what does parking in front of hofburg cost? (kurzparkzone)
09:05
se6astian
lol
09:06
danieel
dont lol, there is a place to park there
09:07
se6astian
2⬠per hour, max parking duration 2 hours
09:07
se6astian
you need to buy the colored parkcertificates first though
09:07
danieel
thanks, so i assume I will need a garage then
09:08
se6astian
will cost you a multitude though
09:08
danieel
staying like 2 days.. any better idea where to leave the car?
09:08
danieel
yes i found some in 40e/day range
09:08
se6astian
do you need the car during that time?
09:08
danieel
no, i just unpack the stuff there and the car can go anywhere
09:09
danieel
unpaid zone wont be near right?
09:09
se6astian
then bring it to an outer district where parking is free
09:09
danieel
best tip, with ubahn connection there?
09:10
se6astian
let me check
09:10
danieel
do you have those P+R sites there?
09:10
danieel
paid with a ticket valid for mass transportation
09:10
se6astian
yes, but they are not free most of the time either
09:10
danieel
well, still will need the ticket to get back to central
09:10
se6astian
they are typically located at the outskirts of vienna so people can communte into the city
09:12
se6astian
do you have a GPS in your car?
09:13
danieel
yes
09:13
danieel
would be lost without it :)
09:13
se6astian
bring your car to "BoschstraÃe 24"
09:13
se6astian
its at the end of metro line U4 just around the corner
09:13
se6astian
in the 18th district which has free parking
09:15
se6astian
you will have to search a bit for a free space though
09:16
davidak
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09:16
danieel
thanks
09:17
danieel
the U lines are more like train or a subway?
09:18
se6astian
subway
09:18
se6astian
the U stands for underground
09:18
se6astian
even though some lines dont go underground all the way
09:27
Rebelj12a
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10:47
intracube
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11:06
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
11:06
Bertl
morning folks!
11:18
se6astian
hey there
11:18
se6astian
I think I am in love with the tormach mill :D
11:18
se6astian
they even have an accessory for small volume injection molding
11:18
se6astian
for just 800$
11:18
se6astian
http://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom&ns=prodshow&ref=32079
11:19
se6astian
only downside I found so far is that their automatic toolchanger system is not compatible with EMC2
11:19
se6astian
they clearly state that on the tool changer page
11:29
se6astian
gotta go
11:29
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
12:57
aombk
"needs triage" in phabrikator is a high priority?
13:19
Bertl
not sure, but it basically means that somebody should look at it and classify/assign
13:19
Bertl
(at least to me :)
13:20
Bertl
we might know more after tomorrow
14:00
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15:37
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16:15
Rebelj12a
Hey was it on anyone's mind, or discussed, compression of dngs and format?
16:15
Rebelj12a
Well at least for archival.
16:19
Rebelj12a
I mean I'm sure it will come since ML will develop for axiom, however a post from the MLRawviewer creator on archival dng http://thndl.com/how-dng-compresses-raw-data-with-lossless-jpeg92.html
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17:23
aombk
Bertl, so there is a maximum number of shields that can be added to the board the beta will use?
17:24
Rebelj12a
Well.. for size constraints at the very least functionality id say so haha
17:24
Rebelj12a
Giant 4 ft long camera XD
17:25
Bertl
aombk: in the current design, yes, precisely two shields, one on the left and one on the right side
17:26
aombk
because of the enclosure size or because of board i/o connections?
17:27
Bertl
because of the board I/O
17:27
Bertl
in theory you could stack some of them up
17:28
Bertl
i.e. make connectors on both sides of the shield, pass through some lanes and stack more than one shield on each side
17:28
Rebelj12a
Power constraints and loss due to more shields?
17:29
Bertl
yeah, all within reason, of course
17:29
Rebelj12a
of course
17:29
Bertl
and as I said, the 'lower' shields would have to be special for that to work
17:33
aombk
and what shields are you planning to make?
17:34
Bertl
at least one tripe low speed hdmi shield, and one high speed hdmi one
17:34
Bertl
a debug shield and probably some button, key, LCD shield
17:35
Rebelj12a
Oh debug shield I likes
17:35
aombk
usb,wifi,sdcard are onboard?
17:38
aombk
i mean no extra shield?
17:39
aombk
also Accelerometer, magnetometer and gyroscope?
17:44
aombk
bertl, you say "Highly customizable via modular I/O addons" that means after you make the basic i/o shields you have planned (and probably after release), you are going to start discussion on other shield ideas?
17:54
Bertl
usb and ethernet, as well as internal SD card are onboard the MicroZed
17:54
danieel
Bertl: what is the approximate volume of the shield can consume? ( X x Y x Z )
17:54
Bertl
wifi can be done via usb, IMU is onboard the Beta board
17:57
Bertl
the size over the Beta board is roughly 22 x 57mm, the height is at least 10mm probably more like 20mm
17:57
Bertl
but you could extend the shield to the side if the case allows that
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se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
18:32
se6astian
good evening
18:32
se6astian
discussing T3
18:34
philippej
bot will be back when some features are ironed out
18:34
se6astian
ok :)
18:38
Bertl
how are T3 and the bot related? :)
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se6astian
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20:45
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
20:46
philippej
good night!
20:46
Bertl
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