Current Server Time: 06:19 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2015/06/27

Timezone: UTC


01:28
g3gg0
left the channel
01:30
fsteinel
left the channel
01:30
fsteinel_
joined the channel
01:53
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
01:53
Bertl
back now ...
02:47
intracube
left the channel
04:20
ItsMeLenny
joined the channel
04:36
ItsMeLenny
hello
04:39
Bertl
hey ItsMeLenny!
04:39
ItsMeLenny
hey Bertl1Ll!
04:40
ItsMeLenny
i'm struggling with this time base corrector, it's taken me a long time so far because i made the parts as SVG for fritzing which took ages, but fritzing wasnt very good to use so someone told me to switch to kicad, and so now i've rebuilt the parts in that, and thats basically where i'm up to, laying out the schematic
04:42
Bertl
sounds good
04:43
Bertl
that was the ADV chip, IIRC
04:43
ItsMeLenny
yeah
04:43
ItsMeLenny
i'm a bit confused how the P0 to P53 lines are meant to hook up http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/ADV7800.pdf#page=18
04:44
ItsMeLenny
or what they connect them to in their diagram, apparantly according to black magic, my intensity pro can take digital component
04:45
Bertl
well, the P0-53 are 54 digital outputs
04:45
ItsMeLenny
on page 23 and 24 there are two different 10bit DDRs, one being ITU-656, and the other being 4:2:2 parallel
04:46
Bertl
ah, correction, P30-P53 are input ports
04:47
Bertl
ah, no, they are actually bidirectional, i.e. can be configured as input or output
04:48
ItsMeLenny
yeah
04:48
Bertl
so, in general, it would be best to connect them with some FPGA to get some flexibility
04:48
ItsMeLenny
i only need with P0 to P29, or P20 to P29, the latter being ITU-656
04:49
Bertl
unless you know exactly what you want to connect
04:49
ItsMeLenny
i want 10 bit component output 4:2:2
04:49
ItsMeLenny
and i'll just check what this black magic guy said
04:50
ItsMeLenny
" The Intensity Pro (non-4K0 only supports YUV 4:2:2, so as long s the YCrCb or YPrPb signal are YUV 4:2:2 they should work fine."
04:50
ItsMeLenny
then he asked a question which i responded to and he never wrote back (1st of june)
04:50
Bertl
okay, you are talking about component video, yes?
04:51
Bertl
I'm not sure what you want to connect where, maybe make a quick drawing?
04:53
ItsMeLenny
im not sure what im meant to connect where :P
04:53
ItsMeLenny
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_kjh0L1etrodVVRNUt3SS1TZk0&authuser=0
04:54
Bertl
whoa :)
04:54
Bertl
well, I wasn't talking about the schematic, I'm more talking about the general connection
04:54
ItsMeLenny
using their diagram but i reordered some pins
04:55
Bertl
obviously you have some video input somewhere
04:55
ItsMeLenny
i dont need the digital input pins because they have analog input pins
04:55
Bertl
and some output which is supposed to go somewhere (the BM intensity?)
04:55
ItsMeLenny
yeah, those AIN1 through to AIN12 will have composite and svideo input
04:56
ItsMeLenny
the output has to come out of pins P0 to P29 to component video which will plug into the BM intensity with normal component cables
04:56
ItsMeLenny
or P20 to P29, depending which i need to go with
04:57
Bertl
I don't think they are for component (analog) output
04:57
ItsMeLenny
P20 to P29 can be 10-Bit SDR ITU-656 Mode 1, and that ITU standard is 4:2:2 anyway
04:57
ItsMeLenny
no but it can do component digital
04:58
ItsMeLenny
8-/10-bit ITU-RBT.656 4:2:2 YCrCb with embedded time codes and/or HS_OUT, VS_OUT, and FLD_DE_OUT pin timing
04:58
ItsMeLenny
(that oxford comma tho)
04:59
Bertl
where do you see (in the datasheet) that it supports this?
05:00
ItsMeLenny
page 20 saysthe pixel output modes
05:00
ItsMeLenny
and then page 23 in the table shows which pins are needed for DDR memory (and another page on 24 with the parrallel output)
05:01
ItsMeLenny
on their schematic on page 18 (which ive been copying off) their digital IO and O pins are just all connected together :P
05:02
Bertl
but page 21 only shows parallel digital out
05:03
Bertl
i.e. you need at least 8 channels to transfer video
05:03
ItsMeLenny
21 is for SDR
05:04
Bertl
where SDR = Single Data Rate, in contrast to DDR = Double Data Rate
05:04
ItsMeLenny
im going to use DDR on page 23
05:04
ItsMeLenny
yeah
05:04
Bertl
which means, it only transfers one bit per pin per clock
05:04
ItsMeLenny
for the memory hooked up, because DDR allows for TBC and 3d comb at the same time
05:05
Bertl
but you still need 8 pins (bits) to transfer the video
05:05
ItsMeLenny
it has 10 pins for 10bit, P20 throught to O29
05:05
ItsMeLenny
P29*
05:05
Bertl
i.e. you would get the data on P22-P29 in ITU-656 mode 1
05:05
Bertl
yeah, for 10bit you get P20-P29
05:06
Bertl
but you need to feed that data into some framegrabber which can handle this
05:07
ItsMeLenny
ah, i thought it was something like that, ive never looked at ADC before do i thought maybe it would have just some straight up component out on it :P
05:07
ItsMeLenny
what options are there for framegrabbers
05:07
Bertl
well, hard to say, but as the chip support many different parallel modes, the best option would be to use an HDMI encoder
05:08
Bertl
(which gives you HDMI, which is easy to grab)
05:08
ItsMeLenny
yeah i have HDMI input
05:08
Bertl
in this case, you would simply connect the P* and HS/VS/DE to the HDMI encoder's inputs
05:09
ItsMeLenny
that sounds easy enough
05:09
Bertl
of course, you need to configure both chips to use the correct format (via I2C, e.g. from an RPi or so)
05:09
ItsMeLenny
ah, i was going to use an arduino, a raspi might be wasier though
05:10
ItsMeLenny
easier* or is wasier mean way easier
05:10
Bertl
and I would suggest to go for the lowest clock rate and highest bit depth in the transfer
05:10
Bertl
i.e. it is easy to connect 24 lanes or even more than to get 8 lanes working properly with ddr and high clock rates
05:10
ItsMeLenny
oh
05:11
ItsMeLenny
so i should go for this parallel output
05:11
Bertl
all the modes on page 21/22 are parallel modes
05:11
ItsMeLenny
im wanting 10 bit because thats what my card captures in
05:12
ItsMeLenny
21 and 22 are for SDR
05:12
Bertl
what I'm saying is, that you best check what the HDMI encoder can do
05:12
ItsMeLenny
ah
05:12
Bertl
again, SDR is not serial
05:12
Bertl
it just means that data is trasnferred only on the rising clock edge
05:12
Bertl
while DDR means data is transferred at both clock edges (i.e. twice as often)
05:13
ItsMeLenny
no it's talking about what kind of memory it is using, because the ADC can either use SDR or DDR ram
05:13
ItsMeLenny
on page 18 theres a typical connection diagram for DDR ram, and then page 19 is a connection diagram for SDR ram
05:14
ItsMeLenny
page 16 talks about the features of using DDR ram and the feeatures of using DDR ram
05:14
Bertl
the DDR/SDR memory interface is unrelated, it has 16 data, 14 address and 9 control ports
05:14
ItsMeLenny
yeah but im using DDR memory, so i cant get the SDR memory outputs
05:15
Bertl
sure, there is no relation between those two
05:15
Bertl
it is just coincidence that they are named similar
05:15
ItsMeLenny
oh >_<
05:16
ItsMeLenny
well i've been fooled all along then
05:16
Bertl
i.e. P* is digitial input/output for video
05:16
Bertl
SD* pins are the memory interface
05:16
comradekingu
joined the channel
05:16
Bertl
the memory interface can handle SDR and DDR memory
05:17
Bertl
and the digital input/output can do SDR and DDR modes
05:17
ItsMeLenny
yeah, which i'll use DDR otherwise SDR wont let me run two features at once
05:17
ItsMeLenny
ah
05:17
ItsMeLenny
i never actually wouldve figured that out
05:18
Bertl
so given that you pick an HDMI encoder which can do 24bit 4:4:4
05:19
Bertl
ah, you want 10bit, so 30bit 4:4:4
05:19
ItsMeLenny
oh its one of those triple the number confusing things :P
05:19
Bertl
e.g. the ADV7511
05:19
ItsMeLenny
RGB vs YUV
05:20
ItsMeLenny
oh, so thats doing exactly what i was going to avoid of converting it back to analog
05:20
Bertl
for your purpose, the ADV7513 is probably simpler and cheaper
05:21
ItsMeLenny
why is that a DAC when HDMI is digital
05:21
Bertl
no DAC, it is just digital conversion
05:22
Bertl
ah, no, you need the ADV7511, the 7513 can't do more than 24bit
05:22
ItsMeLenny
ah
05:22
ItsMeLenny
let me check the price on it :P
05:22
Bertl
about 10 bucks, IIRC
05:23
ItsMeLenny
oh yeah it is, probably about 50 from farnell australia lol, im gonna order everything from america i think
05:23
ItsMeLenny
but thats way cheaper than the ADC, i was just making sure it wasnt 70+
05:24
Bertl
DAC :)
05:24
Bertl
or are you talking about the capturing concept from last time?
05:24
ItsMeLenny
why doesnt those chips show up in http://www.analog.com/en/products/audio-video/video-encoders/video-da-converters.html
05:24
Bertl
because they are not digital to analog converters :)
05:24
ItsMeLenny
oh
05:24
Bertl
as I said, no analog involved :)
05:25
ItsMeLenny
ah
05:25
Bertl
you basically end the analog part on the ADV7800
05:26
ItsMeLenny
oh, heres part of the problem though, which is why i was going to stick on digital component
05:26
ItsMeLenny
i have no way of capturing sound on HDMI
05:26
Bertl
the intensity cannot do that?
05:27
ItsMeLenny
oh it can! my bad
05:27
ItsMeLenny
maybe the updated it in this new interface
05:32
ItsMeLenny
is that bad to convert up to 12 bit for the capture card to go back to 10bit, im not really counting the capture card as reliable despite their claim of professional lol
05:33
Bertl
probably the best way is to connect both in a compatible pinout
05:33
Bertl
i.e. so that you can select different modes and see what works best
05:34
ItsMeLenny
ah
05:34
Bertl
note that more than 8 bit HDMI requires a feature called "deep color" which is not handled by all (most) grabbers
05:34
ItsMeLenny
that 7511 spec sheet is quite short and useless :P
05:34
ItsMeLenny
oh
05:35
Bertl
it is actually a brief
05:35
Bertl
get the programming/hardware guide for the 7511 for details
05:36
ItsMeLenny
the new intensity pro 4K does deep colour, not sure about mine
05:38
ItsMeLenny
theyve pretty much gotten rid of all evidence of the first intensity pro, but the other two USB 3 and thunderbolt version of it say "10bit HDMI"
05:40
Bertl
sounds good then
05:41
Bertl
note that if you connect them properly, you can still switch to 8bit if it doesn't work
05:41
ItsMeLenny
im pretty sure the whole card does 10bit, but i never saw the words deep color
05:41
ItsMeLenny
true
05:41
Bertl
also note that 8bit RGB (4:4:4) gives way better quality than 10bit 4:2:2 YCrCb
05:42
ItsMeLenny
but the main purpose of building this myself was i couldnt find a 10bit tbc :P
05:42
ItsMeLenny
yeah but intensity pro wont capture in 4:4:4 only 4:2:2 and this is coming from 4:1:1 vhs tapes anyway
05:43
Bertl
fair enough
05:52
ItsMeLenny
The digital video interface contains an HDMI 1.4- and a DVI 1.0-compatible transmitter, and supports all HDTV formats <-- trying to find it, but does that still do SD
06:00
Bertl
you are talking about the adv7511 now, yes?
06:16
ItsMeLenny
yeah
06:21
ItsMeLenny
oh yeah it seems to have SDTV, took me a bit to find the programming guide
06:21
Bertl
yeah, that shouldn't be a problem
06:21
Bertl
it can do all kind of standard and non-standard modes
06:30
ItsMeLenny
its output formats are 36, 30, or 24 bit RGB 4:4:4 | 36, 30, or 24 bit YCbCr 4:4:4 | 24 bit YCbCr 4:2:2
06:30
ItsMeLenny
so no 10bit 4:2:2, but that 10bit 4:4:4 is still YCC allegedly
06:30
Bertl
as I said, 10bit is not really defined IIRC
06:31
Bertl
not in the modes, there it exists, I'm talking about the HDMI
06:31
ItsMeLenny
ah
06:32
Bertl
no, sorry, I'm wrong, HDMI claims that 10bit _is_ a supported mode
06:33
ItsMeLenny
i'm guessing i should go with this 30Bit SDR 4:4:4 RGB mode
06:34
Bertl
and it is also listed in the input formats of the ADV7511
06:34
Bertl
i.e. both 10bit 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 YCrCb
06:35
Bertl
the adv7511 can do a huge number of input formats with various alignments and bit orders, so just make sure that the most interesting modes for your purpose match the modes from the ADV7800
06:36
Bertl
then you can always change the mode and test what works
06:36
ItsMeLenny
yeah it has 10bit 4:2:2 input, but it doesnt have 10bit 4:2:2 output
06:37
Bertl
if you want even more flexibility, get a cheap FPGA board with an ADC7511 onboard or as addon module and configure it in software to route the pins
06:37
Bertl
*ADV
06:38
ItsMeLenny
hmm
06:40
Bertl
but probably more expensive
06:41
ItsMeLenny
yeah, probably getting out of my price range
06:42
ItsMeLenny
i would assume this card can take 4:4:4 input but can only capture 4:2:2
06:43
Bertl
do you have any FPGA development boards at hand?
06:44
ItsMeLenny
no, i dont have anything really, a raspi and an arduino
06:45
ItsMeLenny
i am really jumping in the deep end
06:45
Bertl
okay
07:42
ItsMeLenny
im making a schematic for that chip
08:50
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
08:50
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
11:20
jucar
joined the channel
12:11
jucar
left the channel
12:47
jucar
joined the channel
12:57
jucar
left the channel
13:27
ItsMeLenny
thanks for the help Bertl_zZ i got distracted
14:23
intracube
joined the channel
15:02
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
15:10
intracube
left the channel
15:27
intracube
joined the channel
15:53
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
15:53
Bertl
morning folks!
16:24
JustOneMoreShot
joined the channel
16:24
Bertl
welcome JustOneMoreShot!
16:24
JustOneMoreShot
Thanks Bertl!
16:37
gcolburn
joined the channel
16:40
ItsMeLenny
left the channel
16:50
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
18:12
jucar
joined the channel
18:15
g3gg0
joined the channel
19:46
slikdigit_
joined the channel
19:47
gcolburn_
joined the channel
19:50
gcolburn
left the channel
19:50
gcolburn_
changed nick to: gcolburn
19:52
JustOneMoreShot
left the channel
19:58
slikdigit
left the channel
19:59
slikdigit_
changed nick to: slikdigit
19:59
slikdigit
left the channel
19:59
slikdigit
joined the channel
20:36
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
20:46
jucar
left the channel
20:58
gcolburn
left the channel
21:46
Bertl
off for a nap ... bbl
21:46
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
22:06
intracube
changed nick to: intracube|away
22:37
se6astian
I am off to bed!
22:37
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
22:46
slikdigit
left the channel
22:57
jucar
joined the channel
23:20
slikdigit
joined the channel
23:21
slikdigit
left the channel
23:21
slikdigit
joined the channel
23:36
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
23:36
Bertl
back now ...
23:52
intracube|away
changed nick to: intracube