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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2014/09/26

Timezone: UTC


00:03
RahaMee
Another big problem that can be mentioned is the volatility of a camera's price in accordance to the tech. Especially with RED owners who get the price of their red epics slashed in half or how Sony cannibalizes its own market.
00:04
RahaMee
Btw, I think Sony uses the same sensor in their fs700 as they do in their f5 and the new fs7
00:07
Bertl
should be easy to check for somebody who has access to both
00:07
Bertl
a simple picture of the sensor (from the front) should be more than sufficient to compare bonding patterns
00:11
RahaMee
Philip Bloom
00:15
Bertl
question? statement? :)
00:30
danieel
not sure if bonding pattern differs over slight improvements (color mask)
00:30
danieel
finished my automtatic color matching... time for sleep
00:31
Bertl
yeah, maybe if the sensor is already perfect, but usually a new sensor means a slightly modified pattern, even if it is basically the same sensor
00:31
danieel
you can check on d800 / d810 differences
00:33
Bertl
no, I can't, I don't have either :)
00:59
RahaMee
Do you guys have a roadmap for the beta?
01:00
Bertl
do you mean the development process or after we finished the Beta hardware?
01:16
Bertl
the AXIOM Beta design is already in progress, otherwise we couldn't show images of the case and shields, etc
01:17
Bertl
the next step is doing some testboard of the base system, and integrating the sensor as well as testing the high speed interfaces
01:17
Bertl
after that we will do an early beta, which will allow us to actually work on basic software
01:18
Bertl
this is when we will start ironing out all hardware issues and get a final Beta design which will then be manufactured
01:18
Bertl
once the hardware is complete, the focus will be on software development and documentation
01:19
Bertl
the Beta will be shipping when the hardware is complete and tested
01:20
Bertl
the software will get updated in the field during software development
01:21
RahaMee
development process. I was just wondering if April would be the absolute earliest time you would be releasing the beta units
01:24
Bertl
I think we will provide some early betas to interested folks willing to contribute
01:26
Bertl
and if all goes well, we can finish the hardware earlier I guess
01:26
Bertl
but it is always better to plan for unexpected problems, while hoping for the best
01:28
RahaMee
I agree, I was just wondering :)
01:38
Bertl
I'm off to bed now ... have a good one! and thanks for the chat!
01:39
Bertl
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01:44
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02:06
intracube
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03:03
ItsMeLenny
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04:13
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05:28
Gegsite
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intracube
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11:07
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11:21
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11:26
Bertl_zZ
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11:26
Bertl
morning folks!
12:45
ItsMeLenny
heya
12:45
ItsMeLenny
oh, delayed reply
12:46
Bertl
hey look, it's Lenny :)
12:47
ItsMeLenny
its you lenny
12:47
ItsMeLenny
but its me
12:49
Bertl
hehe, fair enough! what's up?
13:36
ItsMeLenny
gaming basically
13:36
ItsMeLenny
left 4 dead 2, and second life :P
13:55
Bertl
is your first live not interesting enough?
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14:59
aombk
did anybody watch the new southpark episode?
15:00
danieel
whats in it?
15:01
aombk
shall i spoil it for you?
15:01
danieel
i do not watch it regularly so go on
15:10
se6astian|away
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15:13
se6astian
good day!
15:13
aombk
hi
15:23
ItsMeLennnny
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15:30
se6astian
new article: http://www.techthefuture.com/technology/open-source-cinema-camera-returns-freedom-to-the-user
16:18
aquarat
I watched it @ South Park
16:28
danieel
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18:03
alesage
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18:12
Bertl
welcome Gegsite!
18:12
Gegsite
Hello
18:49
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19:24
Topic
apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | Currently Hot: AXIOM Beta Crowd Funding is Live: http://igg.me/at/axiom-beta | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
19:24
se6astian
has set the topic
19:26
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sebix
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20:31
se6astian
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20:31
se6astian|away
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20:51
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20:54
se6astian
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21:35
alexML
hey guys, I have something for you: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11787.msg129672#msg129672
21:35
Bertl
hey alexML! how's going?
21:38
alexML
fine, thanks
21:38
Bertl
the row noise you identified is probably fixed/fixable
21:39
alexML
yep
21:39
Bertl
there are three different sources for this noise artefact
21:39
Bertl
s/this/these/ s/artefact/artefacts/
21:39
alexML
yeah, some of them are fixed (just average 1000 dark frames or so), but there's strong row noise that remains after you do that
21:39
Bertl
one is a known problem with voltage stabilization in the sensor
21:40
Bertl
we got the errata for that after we built the sensor interface
21:40
alexML
ah, makes sense
21:40
Bertl
but of course that will be fixed in the Beta
21:40
alexML
the optical black (8+8 columns) are too small though
21:40
Bertl
another problem is that there is noise interference between readout and sampling, as it is a pipelined sensor
21:41
alexML
ah, that line artifact?
21:41
alexML
if it's a single line, I wouldn't worry about it
21:41
Bertl
nah, it shows as offset difference
21:41
Bertl
i.e. dark area/light area
21:41
Bertl
but it is deterministic, so it can probably be removed completely
21:41
alexML
that's good
21:42
Bertl
and when I went through the cmosis datasheets, I stumbled upon something rather interesting
21:42
Bertl
as you probably know, the sensor has 32 configureable readout areas
21:43
alexML
yep
21:43
Bertl
but, what isn't really obvious, unless you read through an application note describing a workaround
21:44
Bertl
is that those areas can overlap arbitrarily
21:44
alexML
and the data doesn't get reset once you read it out?
21:44
Bertl
so in theory, you could do up to 32 readouts of the same exposure
21:45
Bertl
note, this is untested, I found out a few days ago when reading the newest application notes
21:45
Bertl
but if it works, it could be used to eliminate most of the readout related noise problems
21:46
Bertl
not reading 32 times of course, but for example 2-3 times
21:46
alexML
worth trying
21:46
Bertl
at least for noise evaluation it should be very helpful
21:47
alexML
sure
21:47
alexML
btw, do you know if you can lower the clock frequency?
21:47
Bertl
anyway, great work! I hope you will continue working on the Beta platform once we have it up and running
21:47
Bertl
yes, you can lower the clock rate
21:48
alexML
the KAC datasheet hints that noise performance might differ (I guess it would be better)
21:48
Bertl
we actually lowered the lvds clock in the Alpha
21:48
alexML
I want to lower them in Canons too, I just have no idea how :P
21:48
Bertl
yes, I presume the LVDs transmitters are the main source of interference noise
21:49
Bertl
well, you need to supply a different clock signal, and reset the sensor
21:49
Bertl
it will pick up the new clock rate and sync the internal PLL to that
21:49
Bertl
(but no idea how to do that on a proprietary platform)
21:51
Bertl
regarding Sony/Exmor, I really doubt they will provide an open data sheet
21:53
Bertl
s/open/publicly available/
22:00
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22:07
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22:12
Q_
You can always ask if you can develop something open source under NDA.
22:13
Bertl
yes, but we also want the folks out there to be able to use the hardware to the full extent
22:13
Bertl
which isn't possible with NDAs and undocumented hardware
22:15
Bertl
just look at the problems folks have with the proprietary stuff in the raspberry pi (camera interface and related)
22:15
Q_
Some people might prefer to use it even when they don't have access to the documentation, as long as someone does and is willing to support it.
22:16
Bertl
those people will buy cameras from sony I guess :)
22:16
Q_
Anyway, you can always ask if they want to open it.
22:16
Bertl
yes, of course, and I'm pretty sure somebody here will do
22:43
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22:45
aombk2
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22:56
Gegsite
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22:58
Bertl
alexML: how important is cooling the sensor in your experience?
22:59
Bertl
what I mean is, is it a matter of centigrades or is it just a ballbark range one should keep in
23:16
Gegsite
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