| 00:03 | RahaMee | Another big problem that can be mentioned is the volatility of a camera's price in accordance to the tech. Especially with RED owners who get the price of their red epics slashed in half or how Sony cannibalizes its own market.
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| 00:04 | RahaMee | Btw, I think Sony uses the same sensor in their fs700 as they do in their f5 and the new fs7
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| 00:07 | Bertl | should be easy to check for somebody who has access to both
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| 00:07 | Bertl | a simple picture of the sensor (from the front) should be more than sufficient to compare bonding patterns
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| 00:11 | RahaMee | Philip Bloom
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| 00:15 | Bertl | question? statement? :)
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| 00:30 | danieel | not sure if bonding pattern differs over slight improvements (color mask)
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| 00:30 | danieel | finished my automtatic color matching... time for sleep
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| 00:31 | Bertl | yeah, maybe if the sensor is already perfect, but usually a new sensor means a slightly modified pattern, even if it is basically the same sensor
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| 00:31 | danieel | you can check on d800 / d810 differences
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| 00:33 | Bertl | no, I can't, I don't have either :)
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| 00:59 | RahaMee | Do you guys have a roadmap for the beta?
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| 01:00 | Bertl | do you mean the development process or after we finished the Beta hardware?
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| 01:16 | Bertl | the AXIOM Beta design is already in progress, otherwise we couldn't show images of the case and shields, etc
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| 01:17 | Bertl | the next step is doing some testboard of the base system, and integrating the sensor as well as testing the high speed interfaces
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| 01:17 | Bertl | after that we will do an early beta, which will allow us to actually work on basic software
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| 01:18 | Bertl | this is when we will start ironing out all hardware issues and get a final Beta design which will then be manufactured
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| 01:18 | Bertl | once the hardware is complete, the focus will be on software development and documentation
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| 01:19 | Bertl | the Beta will be shipping when the hardware is complete and tested
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| 01:20 | Bertl | the software will get updated in the field during software development
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| 01:21 | RahaMee | development process. I was just wondering if April would be the absolute earliest time you would be releasing the beta units
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| 01:24 | Bertl | I think we will provide some early betas to interested folks willing to contribute
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| 01:26 | Bertl | and if all goes well, we can finish the hardware earlier I guess
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| 01:26 | Bertl | but it is always better to plan for unexpected problems, while hoping for the best
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| 01:28 | RahaMee | I agree, I was just wondering :)
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| 01:38 | Bertl | I'm off to bed now ... have a good one! and thanks for the chat!
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| 11:26 | Bertl | morning folks!
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| 12:45 | ItsMeLenny | heya
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| 12:45 | ItsMeLenny | oh, delayed reply
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| 12:46 | Bertl | hey look, it's Lenny :)
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| 12:47 | ItsMeLenny | its you lenny
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| 12:47 | ItsMeLenny | but its me
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| 12:49 | Bertl | hehe, fair enough! what's up?
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| 13:36 | ItsMeLenny | gaming basically
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| 13:36 | ItsMeLenny | left 4 dead 2, and second life :P
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| 13:55 | Bertl | is your first live not interesting enough?
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| 14:59 | aombk | did anybody watch the new southpark episode?
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| 15:00 | danieel | whats in it?
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| 15:01 | aombk | shall i spoil it for you?
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| 15:01 | danieel | i do not watch it regularly so go on
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| 15:10 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
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| 15:13 | se6astian | good day!
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| 15:13 | aombk | hi
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| 15:30 | se6astian | new article: http://www.techthefuture.com/technology/open-source-cinema-camera-returns-freedom-to-the-user
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| 16:18 | aquarat | I watched it @ South Park
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| 18:12 | Bertl | welcome Gegsite!
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| 18:12 | Gegsite | Hello
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| 19:24 | Topic | apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | Currently Hot: AXIOM Beta Crowd Funding is Live: http://igg.me/at/axiom-beta | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
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| 19:24 | se6astian | has set the topic |
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| 21:35 | alexML | hey guys, I have something for you: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=11787.msg129672#msg129672
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| 21:35 | Bertl | hey alexML! how's going?
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| 21:38 | alexML | fine, thanks
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| 21:38 | Bertl | the row noise you identified is probably fixed/fixable
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| 21:39 | alexML | yep
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| 21:39 | Bertl | there are three different sources for this noise artefact
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| 21:39 | Bertl | s/this/these/ s/artefact/artefacts/
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| 21:39 | alexML | yeah, some of them are fixed (just average 1000 dark frames or so), but there's strong row noise that remains after you do that
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| 21:39 | Bertl | one is a known problem with voltage stabilization in the sensor
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| 21:40 | Bertl | we got the errata for that after we built the sensor interface
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| 21:40 | alexML | ah, makes sense
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| 21:40 | Bertl | but of course that will be fixed in the Beta
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| 21:40 | alexML | the optical black (8+8 columns) are too small though
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| 21:40 | Bertl | another problem is that there is noise interference between readout and sampling, as it is a pipelined sensor
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| 21:41 | alexML | ah, that line artifact?
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| 21:41 | alexML | if it's a single line, I wouldn't worry about it
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| 21:41 | Bertl | nah, it shows as offset difference
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| 21:41 | Bertl | i.e. dark area/light area
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| 21:41 | Bertl | but it is deterministic, so it can probably be removed completely
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| 21:41 | alexML | that's good
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| 21:42 | Bertl | and when I went through the cmosis datasheets, I stumbled upon something rather interesting
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| 21:42 | Bertl | as you probably know, the sensor has 32 configureable readout areas
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| 21:43 | alexML | yep
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| 21:43 | Bertl | but, what isn't really obvious, unless you read through an application note describing a workaround
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| 21:44 | Bertl | is that those areas can overlap arbitrarily
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| 21:44 | alexML | and the data doesn't get reset once you read it out?
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| 21:44 | Bertl | so in theory, you could do up to 32 readouts of the same exposure
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| 21:45 | Bertl | note, this is untested, I found out a few days ago when reading the newest application notes
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| 21:45 | Bertl | but if it works, it could be used to eliminate most of the readout related noise problems
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| 21:46 | Bertl | not reading 32 times of course, but for example 2-3 times
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| 21:46 | alexML | worth trying
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| 21:46 | Bertl | at least for noise evaluation it should be very helpful
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| 21:47 | alexML | sure
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| 21:47 | alexML | btw, do you know if you can lower the clock frequency?
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| 21:47 | Bertl | anyway, great work! I hope you will continue working on the Beta platform once we have it up and running
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| 21:47 | Bertl | yes, you can lower the clock rate
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| 21:48 | alexML | the KAC datasheet hints that noise performance might differ (I guess it would be better)
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| 21:48 | Bertl | we actually lowered the lvds clock in the Alpha
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| 21:48 | alexML | I want to lower them in Canons too, I just have no idea how :P
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| 21:48 | Bertl | yes, I presume the LVDs transmitters are the main source of interference noise
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| 21:49 | Bertl | well, you need to supply a different clock signal, and reset the sensor
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| 21:49 | Bertl | it will pick up the new clock rate and sync the internal PLL to that
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| 21:49 | Bertl | (but no idea how to do that on a proprietary platform)
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| 21:51 | Bertl | regarding Sony/Exmor, I really doubt they will provide an open data sheet
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| 21:53 | Bertl | s/open/publicly available/
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| 22:12 | Q_ | You can always ask if you can develop something open source under NDA.
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| 22:13 | Bertl | yes, but we also want the folks out there to be able to use the hardware to the full extent
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| 22:13 | Bertl | which isn't possible with NDAs and undocumented hardware
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| 22:15 | Bertl | just look at the problems folks have with the proprietary stuff in the raspberry pi (camera interface and related)
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| 22:15 | Q_ | Some people might prefer to use it even when they don't have access to the documentation, as long as someone does and is willing to support it.
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| 22:16 | Bertl | those people will buy cameras from sony I guess :)
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| 22:16 | Q_ | Anyway, you can always ask if they want to open it.
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| 22:16 | Bertl | yes, of course, and I'm pretty sure somebody here will do
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| 22:58 | Bertl | alexML: how important is cooling the sensor in your experience?
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| 22:59 | Bertl | what I mean is, is it a matter of centigrades or is it just a ballbark range one should keep in
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