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06:55 | se6astian | good morning
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07:06 | Bertl | morning folks!
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18:05 | Marco74 | Bertl: Hi
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18:05 | Marco74 | Read the article on heise about your project
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18:05 | Marco74 | I'd like to participate
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18:06 | se6astian | hi Marco74, thats great
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18:06 | se6astian | can you tell us a bit about your background?
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18:07 | Marco74 | Actually English would not be the problem but I could also write German
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18:07 | Marco74 | I'm Tyrolean
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18:07 | Marco74 | Do you mind?
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18:07 | Marco74 | ... about the German?
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18:08 | se6astian | haha, griaß di :D
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18:08 | Marco74 | seavas :)
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18:09 | Marco74 | Naja, ein bisschen etwas über mich:
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18:09 | Marco74 | * HTL
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18:09 | Marco74 | (Elektrotechnik/IT) in Innsbruck
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18:09 | Marco74 | Linux versteht sich bei so einem Projekt eh von selber
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18:10 | Marco74 | war bis vor Kurzem auch Sysadmin in eine 40 Mann Firma, 3 sites, 2 Standorte
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18:10 | Marco74 | Mit servern kann ich ein bisschen etwas anstellen
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18:10 | Marco74 | Programmieren:
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18:10 | Marco74 | Hab' immer C++ gemacht
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18:11 | Marco74 | embedded aber nicht
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18:11 | Marco74 | würde ich mir aber gern ansehen
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18:11 | Marco74 | Wo habt ihr euer Labor?
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18:12 | Marco74 | Bzw. Werkstatt?
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18:13 | se6astian | sehr gut
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18:13 | se6astian | hmm ja arbeitsplatz, in wien und umgebung sozusagen :)
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18:13 | Marco74 | Ich kann auch einmal vorbeikommen
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18:14 | Marco74 | ÖBB zahl' ich pauschal im Monat, herumfahren is eh spaßig
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18:15 | Marco74 | Python hab' ich mir mehr oder weniger selber beigebracht
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18:15 | Marco74 | Auch des Webzeugs (HTML, Javascript, CSS)
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18:23 | se6astian | wenn du dir die weltreise antun willst gerne :)
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18:23 | se6astian | herbert sollte bald wieder da sein dann kann er dir konkrete startpunkte geben
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18:23 | Marco74 | Innsbruck – Wien sind 4:08 min
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18:29 | se6astian | ah da hat sich viel getan mit dem railjet, in meinem kopf sind noch 6 stunden drin :)
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18:32 | Marco74 | und da ist noch viel potential drin: Deutsches Eck bzw. Wallersee
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18:49 | Bertl | hey Marco74, what area seems most interesting to you (regarding AXIOM Alpha or Beta)?
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19:20 | Marco74 | Bertl: Sorry, just saw your message.
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19:21 | Marco74 | Actually developing would be interesting
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19:21 | Marco74 | C++ is my department as well as web
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19:22 | Marco74 | I never did anything like embedded, but that would be very interesting
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19:24 | Bertl | so till now, mostly web design I presume, what did you do with C++?
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19:27 | Marco74 | In school we had to write a software hiding information in a bitmap image
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19:28 | Marco74 | the next project had been a image manipulating software:
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19:28 | Marco74 | Median Blur, Sobel, etc.
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19:29 | Bertl | okay, how did you hide the information?
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19:30 | Bertl | just trying to get an idea what task might be interesting, challenging but still doable for now
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19:30 | Marco74 | aktually in a 24 bit bitmap there 16.7 mio colors
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19:30 | Marco74 | humans only can realize a few
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19:31 | Marco74 | if the last bit of each channel is changed nobody would realize it
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19:31 | Marco74 | 3 channels per pixel
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19:31 | Marco74 | so 3 bits per pixel
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19:31 | Marco74 | This is only possible with bmp
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19:32 | Marco74 | in short: working on elemantary bits and bytes
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19:35 | Bertl | I see, well, maybe you would like to play around with image processing then?
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19:36 | Marco74 | image processing would be very great, although I needed to do much research on that
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19:36 | Marco74 | but actually bits and bytes are my world
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19:37 | Marco74 | that is often needed often in image processing
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19:40 | Bertl | well, maybe the following could be interesting to you:
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19:40 | Bertl | as you probably know, the AXIOM Alpha has a somewhat tricky image pipeline (actually two, one for the sensor, the other for the HDMI out)
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19:41 | Marco74 | ok, and image processing should happen inline as I asume
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19:42 | Marco74 | as a port of this pipeline
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19:42 | Bertl | the first pipeline receives the sensor data and converts it to a 'proper' memory representation, doing some preprocessing like column/row noise correction and linearization, etc
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19:43 | Bertl | the second pipeline fetches the memory and applies first a matrix, and then a lookup table, and passes the resulting data to the HDMI encoder
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19:43 | Bertl | now, I think it would be beneficial, if we could replicate the effects of those pipelines (they are VHDL code working inside the FPGA in realtime)
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19:44 | Bertl | with C, Python or C++, so that folks without an actual AXIOM (and the FPGA) can apply it to test images
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19:45 | Bertl | so basically one starts with a perfect 4k+ still image, then the code rasterizes it to simulate what the sensor will 'see'
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19:46 | Bertl | the result is then processed like the input pipeline would do, and you get a raw 'snap' as we capture them on the camera
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19:47 | Bertl | the second part would then be to process this raw data in the same way the output pipeline does it in the FPGA, so you end up with a full HD frame which is basically what you would see on a monitor
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19:48 | Bertl | a lot of bits and bytes, and you probably need to dig into VHDL as well (at least a little)
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19:48 | Marco74 | sounds really interesting
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19:49 | Marco74 | Image processing VHDL, etc.
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19:50 | Marco74 | bun actually I wasn't involved into the project,
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19:50 | Marco74 | so I first need to understand the whole task and the relevant environment
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19:51 | Bertl | of course
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19:52 | Marco74 | so the first pipeline already exists?
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19:52 | Bertl | both pipelines exist and work in the AXIOM Alpha FPGA
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19:53 | Marco74 | ah, so you want a port to C
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19:53 | Marco74 | or C++
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19:53 | Bertl | or whatever (although C would be preferable)
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19:53 | Marco74 | of course
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19:54 | Marco74 | close to hardware
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19:54 | Bertl | note that part of the processing is how the hardware works
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19:54 | Marco74 | definitely
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19:54 | Bertl | so for example, the rasterization the sensor does isn't implemented anywhere (yet) it just happens
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19:54 | Marco74 | it part of the electronics
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19:55 | Marco74 | I asume
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19:55 | Bertl | yup
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19:55 | Marco74 | a 2d photo-sensor-array
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19:55 | Bertl | so basically you would develop an AXIOM Alpha simulator :)
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19:55 | Marco74 | that testing is easier
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19:56 | Bertl | yes, especially that algorithms which are not that simple to implement in VHDL can be tested
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19:57 | Marco74 | so for now we have that vhdl, further improvements would be done in C, therefore the port is needed?
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19:58 | Bertl | mostly testing, so that folks without an Alpha or Beta can investigate how to add stuff to the image pipeline
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19:59 | Marco74 | so I really need to care about cpu-capacity and throughput time?
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19:59 | Marco74 | because it should process images in RT
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19:59 | Bertl | it won't hurt, but it isn't your main concern I guess
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19:59 | Bertl | folks will process single images for testing I guess
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20:00 | Marco74 | ah, ok
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20:00 | Bertl | but if it is efficient, maybe they will process entire movies lateron
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20:00 | Bertl | but I'd say that isn't the top priority
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20:00 | Marco74 | ok,
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20:01 | Marco74 | actually understanding VHDL could be quite difficult
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20:01 | Marco74 | but I already figured out how ancient greek works
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20:01 | Marco74 | this probably helps at this task
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20:02 | Bertl | well, VHDL isn't that complicated to read actually, you'll see
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20:03 | Bertl | it is harder to get it right when you're designing new modules
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20:04 | Bertl | you need to get an idea what logic and logic vectors are, but for the most part it is sufficient to ask (e.g. me) what the relevant part/module does and then simulate it properly
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20:05 | Bertl | so of course, it won't hurt to lear a little VHDL and FPGA design as well
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20:07 | Marco74 | I think it's doable
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20:07 | Marco74 | I love learning new stuff
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20:07 | Bertl | me too :)
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20:08 | Marco74 | Just didn't have a project to learn VHDL for
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20:08 | Marco74 | until now
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20:09 | Bertl | if you really want to dig into VHDL, I suggest to get a really cheap FPGA development board (there are some with lower end FPGAs for 30-60 EUR)
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20:10 | Marco74 | actually the second problem is, that it is electronics.
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20:10 | Bertl | or, alternatively, if you don't want to 'mess' with electronics, you can grab GHDL and play with that
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20:10 | Marco74 | good idea, FOSS?
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20:10 | Bertl | i.e. VHDL doesn't require an FPGA per se
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20:10 | Bertl | yes, ghdl is gnuHDL
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20:11 | Marco74 | ah....
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20:22 | Marco74 | so the repo is https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/alpha-software.git
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20:22 | Marco74 | ?
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20:23 | Bertl | yep
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20:23 | Bertl | the cmv_hdmi2 is the current design
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20:24 | Marco74 | this includes both pipelines?
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20:25 | Bertl | yes, there is a schematic overview of the pipelines, sec
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20:25 | Bertl | https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php?title=Axiom_Alpha_Software#Image_Pipeline
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20:27 | Marco74 | thx.
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