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13:23 | Bertl | morning folks!
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15:50 | BAndiT1983 | i think one of the next team talks can show somet stuff from OC, if someone missed new things which were added recenty (some are buggy at the moment): drive transfer was implemented, currently just for one target path, transfer progress in progress dialog, checksum verification, this one fails currently for 1 of 2 test files
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15:50 | se6astian | great idea
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15:51 | se6astian | We will need your guidance how to get everything up and running, what we need in addition to the software (footage, raw files, etc.)
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15:51 | se6astian | and what we can already do and show with it
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15:52 | BAndiT1983 | no problem, i would be very glad if someone can test it beside me
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15:52 | BAndiT1983 | real footage from axiom would be the best thing, as i partially use arri footage :D
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15:52 | BAndiT1983 | but as you've probably seen in the screenshot, there are also MOV files from apertus which were used
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15:54 | BAndiT1983 | another question is, if we want to provide VMs for camera firmware development and OC, i've created a task for camera one in Lab, cause i was testing QEMU recently
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15:54 | se6astian | great
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15:55 | BAndiT1983 | i think it oculd draw more people, cause it's tedious for some to set everything up, although there are not many requirements and i'm simplifying it step by step
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15:55 | se6astian | sounds good
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15:56 | se6astian | I dont even think a VM has to be very polished or small filesize as long as its easy to just start and run OC
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15:57 | BAndiT1983 | my idea is to take ubuntu and install it in OEM mode, so the user can create custom account with password at first start
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15:58 | BAndiT1983 | i would add some scripts which have to be executed to setup the basic system
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15:58 | BAndiT1983 | it's not just OC, i don't want to be selfish :D i also could create one, which has scripts for QEMU download and build
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15:59 | BAndiT1983 | especially for GSoC
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16:00 | se6astian | sounds good
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16:01 | BAndiT1983 | we jsut need a little discussion about it, maybe tomorrow evening after team round
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16:07 | se6astian | good idea
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17:00 | se6astian | Hi MichaelH
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17:01 | MichaelH | Hi Sebastian
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17:05 | BAndiT1983 | found this interesting, if someone is not following blendernation -> https://www.blendernation.com/2017/02/23/man-high-castle-season-2-vfx/
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17:35 | se6astian | https://lab.apertus.org/T741
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17:36 | Rex0r | Bandit - https://s10.postimg.org/5zyok6f3d/Screenshot_2017_02_26_17_35_31.png
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17:37 | BAndiT1983 | have looked MLT up, but don't know hat to use it for at the moment, has too many features and most of them are not required at the moemtn
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17:37 | BAndiT1983 | or somebody could evaluate and tell what it should be used for
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17:37 | Rex0r | Link was - https://mltframework.org/projects/
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17:38 | BAndiT1983 | *what *moment
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17:53 | BAndiT1983 | ah, the right man joined
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17:53 | BAndiT1983 | hello d0
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17:55 | d0 | Hey thought I drop by here
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17:55 | BAndiT1983 | good idea
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17:56 | d0 | As an old blender user and a creator of films I am quite curious what will happen with this project
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17:57 | BAndiT1983 | me too :D also blender user here
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17:57 | BAndiT1983 | posted a link to man in the high castle making of in blender, nice to see that people use it for bigger productions
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18:00 | d0 | Currently rendering an animation since 3 days. No need for heating anymore : )
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18:01 | d0 | Is also for a short movie
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18:01 | BAndiT1983 | i know this dilemma, especially when i render volumetrics, like smoke and fire in blender
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18:02 | d0 | But they have an incredibly fast update cycle. It is like having christmas all year
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18:02 | BAndiT1983 | :D true
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18:04 | BAndiT1983 | are you the same guy who commented on facebook?
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18:04 | d0 | Are there any mockups or drafts what about a opencine UI?
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18:04 | d0 | yeah
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18:04 | BAndiT1983 | i'm asking so i can upload OC UI screenshot, just a moment, have to start debugger again
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18:05 | d0 | no need to hurry : )
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18:07 | BAndiT1983 | https://lab.apertus.org/T341
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18:08 | BAndiT1983 | no problem here, as my VM is running, was just looking in lab around
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18:09 | BAndiT1983 | some things will be changed, like overwrite/checksum boxes, as they should be set per target, at least in my opinion
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18:09 | BAndiT1983 | the UI is not a mockup, it's real, hope to get a screencast soon, when some bugs were fixed
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18:12 | RexOrCine | Welcome to the community d0
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18:14 | BAndiT1983 | i see, that people could get a wrong idea about OC -> twitter: @LeeABrian so I may not require OpenShot to edit?
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18:14 | BAndiT1983 | in first place it's a backup solution for now, the module which will be implemented after OCBackup is stable and usable is a RAW clip editor, for color grading and simple cutting
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18:16 | BAndiT1983 | people could suggest other things also, but i'm not aiming at NLE editing currently, more on "on-set" features to help people there
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18:18 | BAndiT1983 | and for better apertus promotion, i would still like to include things which use beta camera features
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18:19 | BAndiT1983 | like live preview and control, similar to tethering in darktable
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18:20 | d0 | So to put it simple it is meant to work as a tool to gather and backup data directly from the camera (or removable drives) to whatever backup location(s)
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18:21 | BAndiT1983 | yes, this applies to OCBackup, but it's intended to be one module of many in OC toolsuite
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18:21 | d0 | I often used Teracopy with file hash, or hand woven rsync scripts on set for it
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18:22 | BAndiT1983 | i wanted all-in-one solution, but some guy told me, that it would be better to split it, so different departments of film production can work independently
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18:22 | d0 | it is definitly something that would be very useful
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18:23 | d0 | I think it makes sense to at least make OCBackup a seperate application
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18:24 | BAndiT1983 | plan is also to create OCManage, so one can sort his library and mark the files, also like rawtherapee/darktable do, then OCProcess for simple color-grading and cutting the clip
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18:24 | d0 | I imagine using it on set. It should be lightweight, stable and secure (data integrity)
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18:24 | BAndiT1983 | that's my plan
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18:24 | BAndiT1983 | backup feature is there, but it's buggy at the moment
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18:24 | d0 | well I think that is a reasonable structure
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18:25 | d0 | and it will launch and then you have to select the mode?
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18:26 | BAndiT1983 | i've shown you the launcher in lab, would place all the separate apps there, also ones which will be created as UIs for command-line tools from other apertus repository
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18:31 | BAndiT1983 | Sebastian, Rex, are you there?
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18:34 | d0 | Good idea : )
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18:37 | Rex0r | Aye.
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18:38 | BAndiT1983 | want to test VM for easier distribution of OC dev environment, does anything speak against ubuntu?
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18:39 | BAndiT1983 | my preference is linuxmint usually, but don't know what the people are using mostly
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18:45 | Rex0r | I'm gonna give you access to the OpenCine acct. It's a good platform for this sort of thing and you can do polls. (I'm on Mint by the way)
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18:45 | BAndiT1983 | argh, please don't
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18:45 | BAndiT1983 | i am a developer and prefer dark basement :D
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18:45 | Rex0r | XD
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18:46 | BAndiT1983 | not really a basement, don't have one here
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18:47 | BAndiT1983 | i'm really not a social network guy, maybe i've grown beside the age when it's interesting to exhibit yourself
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18:50 | BAndiT1983 | alright, will go for LM18.1 (with MATE for higher performance) for now, does not remember if it has OEM mode so test is required, if someone wants different one, then we can still decide again, scripts should stay mostly the same imho
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18:52 | BAndiT1983 | i'm at the point where i'm tired of thinking about preferences of people, but should mostly decide, otherwise there won't be feedback from the outer world, just like apple -> "you need thins phone, or your life is waste"
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18:54 | d0 | Well I think it doesn't matter that much and in the end there will be someone complaining no matter what you decide for, so meh
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18:55 | Bertl | I completely agree, pick whatever suits your purpose best
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18:55 | BAndiT1983 | gentoo!!!! :D
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18:55 | Bertl | (or if that isn't clear, pick the easier one :)
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18:55 | BAndiT1983 | just a joke, i'm not that crazy linux user
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18:56 | BAndiT1983 | linuxmint is ubuntu, but with better performance, so apt-get all the way
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18:56 | BAndiT1983 | d0: OC runs also under windows, trying to develop it partly under linux and partly under windows, to remove errors of different compilers
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18:58 | d0 | I used all min, ubuntu and windows so everything is fine with me : ) Mostly use windows in (film) production though
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18:59 | d0 | with the Linux subsystem in Windows 10 it got at least bearable to code there also
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18:59 | BAndiT1983 | using it for AE, as my hobby film group prefers it
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19:00 | BAndiT1983 | currently i'm developing in LM18.1 VM under win8.1
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19:00 | Bertl | there is no 'Linux' in Microsoft Windows :)
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19:00 | BAndiT1983 | pfff
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19:00 | BAndiT1983 | i've also tried win98 on my android phone
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19:05 | d0 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux well it is better than using powershell
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19:06 | BAndiT1983 | currently still avoiding win10, but will have to live with it on the new tablet, if i order one finally
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19:07 | d0 | I find it by far more "enjoyable" than 8, at least gui wise
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19:07 | Bertl | well, no doubt that a unix is better ...
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19:08 | BAndiT1983 | :D Bertl at his best
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19:08 | Bertl | but a 'Linux' requires a Linux Kernel ...
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19:09 | Bertl | so while Microsoft is jumping on the 'Linux' train, it is just a misnomer
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19:09 | BAndiT1983 | Bertl, by the way, when do you have time to test QEMU?
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19:09 | BAndiT1983 | what do they want achieve by doing it?
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19:10 | Bertl | as soon as I finish testing the recently assembled PCBs
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19:10 | BAndiT1983 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Linux_distributions
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19:10 | BAndiT1983 | many quality problems or just general tests?
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19:12 | Bertl | Microsoft realized, quite some time ago, that they cannot survive if they do not play the open source and Linux cards sooner or later
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19:12 | BAndiT1983 | so they opened a lot of frameworks, e.g. .NET
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19:12 | Bertl | yes, and now they are trying to market Linux as their newest achievement :)
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19:12 | d0 | I think they realized that people would abandon windows just to have bash running.
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19:13 | BAndiT1983 | bash is not everything, i use it also, but an UI is faster to use sometime
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19:13 | BAndiT1983 | just imagine OC as bash :D
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19:13 | Bertl | the shell is not about being fast
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19:14 | Bertl | the shell is about being flexible
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19:14 | d0 | So they tried to implement something like it. For people like me who cannot run linux for software reasons but still love to have bash, this is a good thing.
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19:14 | d0 | still not a Microsoft lover though
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19:15 | BAndiT1983 | i just take best of both worlds, FFMPEG binding in OC was easier under linux, under Windows it's still not working, but will fix it when i have time, linux first at the moemtn
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19:19 | BAndiT1983 | thanks Rex, will try it as soon as there is stable version and new ideas are required
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19:32 | se6astian | added another oc logo attempt
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19:32 | se6astian | https://lab.apertus.org/T341
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19:33 | BAndiT1983 | nice one, d0 your turn :)
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19:34 | se6astian | queen on A4 :)
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19:34 | BAndiT1983 | what do you mean?
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19:35 | d0 | I need to reflect a little on the structure of the project. OpenCine is the whole thing. Then there is OpenCineBackup, OpenCineManager, OpenCineProcess and so on. All of which are subsets of OpenCine
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19:36 | se6astian | chess
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19:36 | BAndiT1983 | :D
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19:36 | se6astian | tower on F8
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19:36 | se6astian | your tunr
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19:36 | se6astian | turn
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19:37 | BAndiT1983 | knight at C3
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19:37 | BAndiT1983 | i thought you were talking about the band
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19:45 | BAndiT1983 | oha, what the hell, why is our chat conversation posted in twitter?
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19:45 | BAndiT1983 | https://twitter.com/apertusOpenCine/status/835922951820230657
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19:45 | d0 | Me too. And he said it while I was creating a DIN A4 artboard in Illustrator so I was like "???"
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19:45 | d0 | Oh I am famous now
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19:45 | d0 | : D
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19:46 | BAndiT1983 | second thought was, that Sebastian is looking after women in an Audi A4 :D
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19:49 | Bertl | should I be worried? :)
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19:51 | BAndiT1983 | ?
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19:53 | Bertl | nah, probably it is fine ...
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20:04 | BAndiT1983 | d0, it's not mess, it's the usual environment of an engineer ;)
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20:10 | d0 | it is even worse, I am actually a student of fine arts : )
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20:11 | d0 | (doing a lot of analog audio electronics for modular synthesizers though.)
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20:11 | BAndiT1983 | wouldn't guessed that, if i see soldering iron and oscilloscope there
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20:11 | BAndiT1983 | oha, nice one
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20:11 | BAndiT1983 | we were typing in parallel, so it wasn't sarcastic, just badly timed
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20:14 | d0 | haha na didn't read it as sarcasm : ) I like my creative chaos
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20:15 | BAndiT1983 | it's the creative chaos which helps to be creative
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20:16 | d0 | It is just a high-complexity form of order : )
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20:17 | BAndiT1983 | but just for engineers and artists, but it's a pity that other people don't think so
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20:18 | d0 | OCBackup – also meant for encoding of raw files? You mentioned FFMPEG so I'd guess so?
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20:19 | BAndiT1983 | at the moment for decoding of MOV files from the external recorder, e.g. Shogun, but there is also CinemaDNG file reader in source code
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20:20 | BAndiT1983 | but it's a good point, encoding to different formats should be also added later, e.g. for OCProcess, before that i don't know what i should encode for, maybe besides metadata, but that can be solved by using MXF container or similar
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20:21 | BAndiT1983 | i need more input from people who actively have to do with film shooting and know what's required and used nowadays
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20:24 | BAndiT1983 | my idea is to carry most things, like metadata, externally, e.g. in XML file, and not to embed it into files, because it's easier to write parsers that way
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20:25 | BAndiT1983 | but it's a point which have to be discussed with Alex, who wrote the converter from MOV stream to DNG, if i'm not mistaken and possibly Bertl
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20:25 | BAndiT1983 | *has to be discussed
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20:25 | d0 | Well I study film (ofically as said "fine arts") actually and did 5 films as a DOP last year, so shoot
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20:26 | BAndiT1983 | i'm doing post-processing of 2008 shots, so not up to date at the moment :D
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20:26 | d0 | MXF is certainly a standard
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20:26 | d0 | either that or Quicktime with Prores
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20:27 | d0 | I like MXF more, because it is more compatible cross platform. The Prorescodec on Windows is sort of slow
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20:27 | BAndiT1983 | heard of prores from some people, but i still lack the knowledge, have to search for some examples of containers, so i know how they are used
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20:28 | BAndiT1983 | my main profession is software development, so film stuff has to be grasped while developing OC
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20:29 | d0 | Defacto if you buy yourself a Shogun Flame 10bit 4K recorder today, the two containers it uses are MXF (using DNxHD or DNxHR) or Quicktime (using Prores)
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20:29 | BAndiT1983 | Geez, even more format definitions
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20:30 | d0 | I work also with image sequences (DPX, PNG, EXR, depending on the task)
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20:31 | d0 | but if I had to choose one file format and use it forever, I would not feel bad using mxf with a good DNxHD/DNxHR Codec)
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20:31 | BAndiT1983 | CinemaDNG was selected as format back when i started, in the future we can extend it of course, especially EXR is interesting, i've tried to import blender things with depth into AE some time ago, works fine, plus HDR is there
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20:32 | BAndiT1983 | don't forget to think about the licensing stuff, as many formats are restricted
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20:32 | d0 | Oh cinemadng is also fine if you have the space. Working with 8 TB of it right now.
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20:32 | BAndiT1983 | i mean not technically
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20:32 | d0 | legally
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20:33 | d0 | oh FFMPEG also supports DNxHD with 10bits
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20:34 | BAndiT1983 | very good, then i don't have to bother about new libs
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20:34 | BAndiT1983 | OC should be as slim and as fast as possible
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20:34 | BAndiT1983 | but not slim on features
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20:35 | BAndiT1983 | now it's the fourth icon, after reordering, hard to decide for me as Libra :D
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20:36 | Bertl | off for now ... bbl
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20:36 | Bertl | changed nick to: bertl_oO
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20:36 | bertl_oO | changed nick to: Bertl_oO
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20:36 | BAndiT1983 | just think of icon set for OCBackup, OCManage and OCProcess, or other apps, they should be similar but distinct per app
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20:54 | d0 | sth among those lines? https://lab.apertus.org/file/data/f4kopjwxvo5bxygkflit/PHID-FILE-n3iesiiqhdf455zrcpxa/OC_Structure-01.png
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20:55 | d0 | (took me 2 minutes, so there is room for improvement)
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20:55 | BAndiT1983 | you should change the access to the file, just look on the left side for "Files" and then select yours, then "Edit file" and select other option, as i get restricted file
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20:55 | BAndiT1983 | "You do not have permission to view this object."
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20:55 | BAndiT1983 | happens to me also every time i upload images and forget to adjust it
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20:55 | d0 | https://lab.apertus.org/T341
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20:56 | d0 | there (sorry for png transparency)
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20:56 | d0 | jsut open it in a new tab
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20:56 | BAndiT1983 | no problem, looking at it currently, nice idea, what about recognition, when icons are small?
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20:57 | d0 | The question is: will they be? : )
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20:57 | BAndiT1983 | plan is to mainly use launcher which shows bigger ones and only launcher has icon on desktop or in the favorite panel
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20:57 | BAndiT1983 | alright, it seems you already got the idea ;)
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20:58 | d0 | for smal icons maybe we could add letters like "OB", "OM", "OP" usw
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20:58 | BAndiT1983 | good idea, we should definitely test it soon
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20:59 | BAndiT1983 | i would prepare a VM, so people can test or develop OC without much hassle
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20:59 | d0 | cool : )
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21:04 | RexOrCine | I like OCProcess a lot
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21:04 | RexOrCine | OCManager is ok
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21:05 | BAndiT1983 | looks good, but still thinking about most recognizable thing in video processing
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21:05 | RexOrCine | Not sure about Backup though. I thought about something like building blocks. eg, the O being pixelated with some of the pixels not added or flying off
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21:06 | d0 | Agreed
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21:06 | BAndiT1983 | also a good idea, i'll let d0 decide for a moment
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21:07 | RexOrCine | Reducing the check boxes to two in Manager would probably help with smaller versions of the icon
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21:07 | d0 | agreed
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21:07 | BAndiT1983 | so i can concetrate on preparation of the VM, which should help a lot when someone wants to try the thing
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21:08 | d0 | already changed it to two checkboxes, also made them a little bigger
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21:08 | BAndiT1983 | i will extract the json file which configures the launcher, it's basic currently, but can be extended later
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21:08 | d0 | Process looks nice to me, wouldn't change a thing
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21:08 | BAndiT1983 | then you can try it yourself, without recompilation, like it was planned
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21:08 | d0 | cool
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21:09 | d0 | Backup. I will try some data thingie
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21:09 | BAndiT1983 | i must say, FB post with previous screenshot is gathering some people, which is nice
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21:14 | RexOrCine | Oh, the OCBackup icon in labs is better though.
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21:16 | d0 | yeah I fucked up removing the contour
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21:17 | BAndiT1983 | prepare them on dark background first, i mean your A4 structure diagram, so transparency problem will be gone for now
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21:17 | RexOrCine | Process is just great
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21:57 | BAndiT1983 | so, off to bed, will be back after work tomorrow, let's see what google decides
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21:57 | BAndiT1983 | good night
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21:57 | BAndiT1983 | changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
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22:02 | se6astian | I am off too
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22:02 | se6astian | good night
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