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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2018/11/25

Timezone: UTC


00:40
RexOrCine
changed nick to: RexOrCine|away
00:41
Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
00:41
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
01:03
Spirit532
My high speed cam is for sale on eevblog and a few other places, but the pictures are easy to view there
01:03
Spirit532
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-high-speed-camera-nearly-indestructible/
01:03
Spirit532
I really need it gone so I can get a working URSA Mini 4.6K :P
01:27
futarisIRCcloud
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BAndiT1983|away
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BAndiT1983
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BAndiT1983
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niteesh
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futarisIRCcloud
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niteesh
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niteesh
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iti
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iti
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futarisIRCcloud
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illwieckz
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futarisIRCcloud
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10:09
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
10:27
se6astian
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10:28
se6astian|away
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10:41
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
10:41
Bertl
morning folks!
10:42
se6astian
good day!
10:45
niteesh
left the channel
10:47
se6astian
anyone have worked/experience with avisynth+ ? http://avs-plus.net/
10:47
se6astian
or do you know any any project that can be considered a successor of avisynth?
11:04
BAndiT1983
changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
11:04
BAndiT1983|away
changed nick to: BAndiT1983
12:16
Titin
joined the channel
12:16
Titin
Hi, everyone!!
12:16
se6astian
hi Titin!
12:16
Titin
Newbie here
12:17
se6astian
thats how everyone starts at some point :)
12:17
Titin
I want to contribute in apertus
12:17
se6astian
great, in which area?
12:18
Titin
Means?
12:18
Titin
Which area means?
12:19
Titin
Are you there?
12:20
Titin
Axiom beta, axiom remote, opencine.... Which one is beginner friendly?
12:21
Bertl
Hey Titin!
12:22
Bertl
Really depends on what you're good at! :)
12:24
enthu1234
joined the channel
12:24
enthu1234
Hello
12:25
enthu1234
I wanted to ask under what conditions the Axiom Camerasystem or parts thereof may be used in commercial projects
12:26
Bertl
as long as you respect the licenses, there is no restriction to use it in any commercial project
12:26
enthu1234
this is sort of hypothetical, if I was doin this for some serious business they'd have lawyers and all that obviously to figure these things out, so I mean
12:27
enthu1234
what is the boundary from your perspective
12:27
Bertl
well, any license violation is a problem
12:27
enthu1234
obviously
12:27
enthu1234
e.g. usage of your hardware with entirely own developed software probably doesn't mean that own software has to be published under open source liscence
12:28
Bertl
correct
12:28
enthu1234
now the more complex thing is where your software is used partially, while some own software is used, now obviously your software has to be added with the product in so far as it is GPL
12:28
Bertl
you can run your completely proprietary software on the hardware
12:28
se6astian
enthu1234: I took your recent visit as opportunity to update our FAQ: https://www.apertus.org/faq#Can_I_sell_proprietary_software_that_runs_on_the_AXIOM_Beta_
12:28
enthu1234
thank you
12:28
Bertl
you can write your proritetary firmware for the FPGAs
12:29
enthu1234
now the question is: assume I have some proprietary components of the firmware of my own, thats illegal right?
12:29
Bertl
you can build your completely proprietary plugins
12:29
se6astian
Titin: can you tell us a bit about yourself, what have you done so far?
12:29
enthu1234
I can't have some own special code for e.g. industrial application specific
12:29
enthu1234
without making it open source
12:29
enthu1234
if I use otherwise your firmware
12:29
enthu1234
plugins are ok?
12:29
Titin
left the channel
12:29
Bertl
that depends on the location and interface
12:30
Bertl
for example, it will be hard to impossible to combine your proprietary FPGA IP with the open source firmware
12:30
Bertl
but it will be easy/simple to run a proprietary app on the Linux
12:30
enthu1234
you mean in terms of legality
12:31
Bertl
yes
12:31
enthu1234
so if I change HDL, I also have to change do the software side all on my own
12:32
Bertl
really depends on the changes
12:32
enthu1234
I mean is there some level of where I could e.g. ask
12:32
enthu1234
like if I ask a specific council or whatever of your apertus association
12:32
enthu1234
and they say its ok
12:32
enthu1234
then I have some sort of certainity
12:32
enthu1234
for that specific project
12:33
enthu1234
or could I then be sued by a third-party anyway
12:33
Bertl
we are a member of the FSF/FSFE so they can probably help with the legal stuff
12:33
enthu1234
because of that "it depends"
12:33
enthu1234
ah ok
12:33
enthu1234
yeah I see how the problem is that it isn't so clear cut where its a "component" and where it isn't a "component"
12:36
enthu1234
Ah anyway i wanted to say that your project is pretty cool.
12:36
Bertl
thanks!
12:36
se6astian
what you can definitely do (Bertl please correct me if I am wrong) is doing any closed source processing on an additional FPGA in a plugin module for example
12:36
enthu1234
though it would be nice to have a bit more documentation ^.^
12:37
enthu1234
I mean, at least I didn't find it for the VHDL code on the github page
12:37
se6astian
then there is a clear interface between "the camera" and "your hardware/IP"
12:37
enthu1234
Ah yes
12:37
Bertl
sure, as I said, plugin modules can be as proprietary as they can get :)
12:37
Bertl
same is true for shields btw
12:38
enthu1234
but you know, say I want some sort of high speed image processing or something low latency, as needed for some industrial processes, you'll need to directly access the camera esp. for the latency improvement side
12:38
se6astian
the plugin module slots provide exactly that
12:38
Bertl
the plugin interface is roughly capable of 15Gbit/s throughput
12:39
enthu1234
oh
12:39
futarisIRCcloud
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12:39
enthu1234
that sounds nice
12:40
se6astian
and latency for data arriving on the plugin modules is low (is it 1 frame currently Bertl?)
12:41
Bertl
you can easily bypass the frame buffer and send data directly from the sensor to the plugin interface
12:41
enthu1234
and just have that part published
12:41
Bertl
which gives you near zero latency
12:41
enthu1234
which is no problem
12:41
enthu1234
or is it directly configurable?
12:42
Bertl
not presently but as you said, it is a small modification you can easily do and publish
12:46
enthu1234
Btw. whats the plan for the FPN Compensation so far?
12:47
Bertl
well, there are basically three options
12:48
Bertl
- complete FPN in post
12:48
Bertl
- RCN correction (Row/Column based)
12:48
Bertl
- Dark Frame/Gain correction based on memory image
12:50
BAndiT1983
changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
12:52
Adnan
joined the channel
12:53
Adnan
Hi everyone
12:54
Bertl
hey
12:54
Adnan
i am new hear i hope you will help me to sort out things
12:55
Adnan
actually i will start my work with this org after 6 or 7 days currently i am giving my semester exams
12:57
se6astian
hi Adnan
12:58
se6astian
sounds great, what would you like to work on or contribute to?
13:01
se6astian
enthu1234: to clarify regarding FPN: we currently do a mix of 1 and 2
13:01
se6astian
rcn correction can be done in FPGA in realtime
13:01
se6astian
and we remove the remaining FPN in post
13:02
se6astian
any of these steps is optional of course
13:02
enthu1234
ah ok
13:02
se6astian
and both steps require a calibration
13:02
enthu1234
something I wondered about
13:02
enthu1234
when you have dead pixels
13:02
enthu1234
what interpolation do you use
13:02
enthu1234
to compensate
13:02
se6astian
currently we dont interpolate
13:02
enthu1234
ah ok
13:02
enthu1234
so you just have black pixels
13:03
enthu1234
and people will do something in postproduction so to speak
13:03
Bertl
well, we haven't had a sensor with bad pixels yet
13:03
Bertl
but yeah, that's the idea
13:03
se6astian
the plan is to save any dead pixel locations in metadata
13:04
se6astian
so they can be sorted out in raw development as you said
13:04
enthu1234
and the recognition
13:04
enthu1234
just use a white wall
13:04
enthu1234
or what
13:04
enthu1234
or do it on the fly
13:05
enthu1234
with normal images and then some processing to detect
13:06
Adnan
se6astian:actually GSOC
13:07
Adnan
that i why i would like to contribute to your orginsation and in future also
13:07
se6astian
enthu1234: any out of focus mid grey wall should work to detect white or black pixels standing out
13:07
se6astian
Adnan: very well!
13:08
enthu1234
yeah so its ~the white wall approach
13:08
se6astian
did you have a look at our idea page from last year already?
13:08
Adnan
yes i gone through but i didnot understand any of them yet...
13:08
se6astian
enthu1234: on the fly detection is probably an overkill and not as reliable as real world content can create 1 pixel sized highlights
13:09
enthu1234
well 1 pixel sized highlights.. but not over a lot of very different looking pictures
13:09
se6astian
also dead pixels dont normally pop up over time, they are there from the beginning
13:09
enthu1234
all at the same place
13:09
enthu1234
yeah thats a really good argument
13:09
enthu1234
if new ones don't come its pointless
13:09
enthu1234
to do anything but that wall approach
13:09
se6astian
Adnan: what is your particular interest, what programming language are you good in?
13:10
Bertl
enthu1234: and you can always redo this and update the data
13:10
Adnan
se6astian:c and c++
13:10
se6astian
enthu1234: if a new dead pixel does pop up for whatever reason its easy to add it to the metadata even of existing clips
13:10
enthu1234
true
13:11
se6astian
Adnan: then any non FPGA/HDL tasks could be interesting to you I guess
13:11
se6astian
https://lab.apertus.org/project/view/20/
13:12
se6astian
check out what our students did this year as projects: https://www.apertus.org/google-summer-of-code-wrap-article-august-2018
13:12
Adnan
actually i got intrest ian your org by seeing video one of your last year gsoc 2018 student supergay
13:12
Adnan
supergaya
13:13
enthu1234
oops, what a typo
13:17
Adnan
se6astian: thank you i will try to get knowledge about this
13:17
Bertl
yeah, I would be ashamed to confuse its with it's :)
13:18
enthu1234
I just checked, apparently I'm not ashamed of that
13:18
Bertl
we won't hold it against you
13:19
enthu1234
thanks!
13:23
Adnan
i hope i am not disturbing you Guys
13:23
enthu1234
neither do I
13:23
Adnan
left the channel
13:23
enthu1234
I meant I hope I'm not disturbing anyone either
13:25
se6astian
not at all, this channel is very quiet most of the time, its refreshing to see things happening :)
13:25
enthu1234
seb6astian: are you the austrian guy?
13:30
se6astian
well I am an Austrian guy yes :)
13:34
enthu1234
yeah I'm not sure how many Sebastians from Austria participate at the Axiom, but I'd assume it is an exclusive circle
13:37
enthu1234
One of your not yet started projects is the interfacing with the actuators of the optical system
13:37
enthu1234
motors for lens and such
13:38
enthu1234
isn't that a bit huge, considering how many different standards there are?
13:38
se6astian
yeah, we are a bit afraid of getting into that
13:38
se6astian
lens communication in general
13:38
se6astian
but we will do it at some point
13:40
enthu1234
if someone wants to do that, he needs a lot of cameras already to do all the reverse engineering of a lot of standards, right?
13:41
se6astian
well I wouldnt say its "a lot" but a few yes
13:41
se6astian
and then the different dialects of different lenses as well
13:42
enthu1234
yeah I guess that alone makes it hard to get started if its all a single project
13:42
se6astian
yes, and then whenever a new lens comes out you need to check if it works, make small modifications
13:42
se6astian
a maintenance nightmare
13:44
BAndiT1983|away
changed nick to: BAndiT1983
13:44
enthu1234
but there is no real security or anything right?
13:45
enthu1234
this is all just spi or i2c firmware so to speak, that is totally undocumented
13:45
se6astian
I think so yes
13:46
enthu1234
so one could e.g. contribute by just choosing one camera + lens, make a set up to log all the communication, do a small setup with a microcontroller to verify one understood what is doing what, and then supply that documentation
13:47
enthu1234
and if that was done by a bunch of people, the job of integrating the results into axiom project wouldn't be anything scary anymore
13:47
enthu1234
at all
13:49
Titin
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Titin
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13:50
se6astian
true
13:50
se6astian
its not rocket science, still it requires quite an effort as you need to put a device between camera and lens
13:50
enthu1234
yeah but then the issue really is that its a too big chunk as a single project I guess
13:51
enthu1234
that makes it scary
13:51
se6astian
indeed
13:51
enthu1234
but you have that totally under your control, you can just split it up
13:56
se6astian
its one of many things still on the todo list
14:04
vup2
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illwieckz
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14:39
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
14:39
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
14:44
illwieckz
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14:45
Kjetil
On lens communication. I was looking into it a few.. well, actually many years ago. Then I focused on Nikon F-mount lenses. As far as i can remember there is some information available online, such as the basic layout of the internal i2c rom in the lens. But the project stalled as it was hard to get hold of the proper connectors. (This was before 3D printing became a big thing)
14:48
futarisIRCcloud
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BAndiT1983
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vup2
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vup2
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vup2
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vup2
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16:27
RexOrCine|away
changed nick to: RexOrCine
16:41
RexOrCine
(18:27:44) enthu1234: 14:34:27> yeah I'm not sure how many Sebastians from Austria participate at the Axiom, but I'd assume it is an exclusive circle.... (18:27:44) se6astian: 14:41:41> well I wouldnt say its "a lot" but a few yes ... < Nobody is sure. But there's definitely at least one body double to my certain knowledge.
16:42
RexOrCine
One can drive the other one can't.
16:43
RexOrCine
Search for "Vienna Road Rage. Austria's Maddest Drivers. Best Public Freakouts."
17:11
enthu1234
left the channel
17:35
BAndiT1983|away
changed nick to: BAndiT1983
17:46
BAndiT1983
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17:46
BAndiT1983|away
changed nick to: BAndiT1983
20:37
se6astian
off to bed
20:37
se6astian
good night
20:37
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
20:54
BAndiT1983
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21:40
enthu
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enthu
changed nick to: enthu1234
22:11
illwieckz
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futarisIRCcloud
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