| 01:40 | RexOrCine | changed nick to: RexOrCine|away
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| 01:41 | Bertl_oO | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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| 02:03 | Spirit532 | My high speed cam is for sale on eevblog and a few other places, but the pictures are easy to view there
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| 02:03 | Spirit532 | http://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-high-speed-camera-nearly-indestructible/
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| 02:03 | Spirit532 | I really need it gone so I can get a working URSA Mini 4.6K :P
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| 11:41 | Bertl | morning folks!
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| 11:42 | se6astian | good day!
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| 11:47 | se6astian | anyone have worked/experience with avisynth+ ? http://avs-plus.net/
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| 11:47 | se6astian | or do you know any any project that can be considered a successor of avisynth?
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| 13:16 | Titin | joined the channel |
| 13:16 | Titin | Hi, everyone!!
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| 13:16 | se6astian | hi Titin!
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| 13:16 | Titin | Newbie here
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| 13:17 | se6astian | thats how everyone starts at some point :)
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| 13:17 | Titin | I want to contribute in apertus
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| 13:17 | se6astian | great, in which area?
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| 13:18 | Titin | Means?
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| 13:18 | Titin | Which area means?
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| 13:19 | Titin | Are you there?
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| 13:20 | Titin | Axiom beta, axiom remote, opencine.... Which one is beginner friendly?
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| 13:21 | Bertl | Hey Titin!
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| 13:22 | Bertl | Really depends on what you're good at! :)
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| 13:24 | enthu1234 | joined the channel |
| 13:24 | enthu1234 | Hello
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| 13:25 | enthu1234 | I wanted to ask under what conditions the Axiom Camerasystem or parts thereof may be used in commercial projects
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| 13:26 | Bertl | as long as you respect the licenses, there is no restriction to use it in any commercial project
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| 13:26 | enthu1234 | this is sort of hypothetical, if I was doin this for some serious business they'd have lawyers and all that obviously to figure these things out, so I mean
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| 13:27 | enthu1234 | what is the boundary from your perspective
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| 13:27 | Bertl | well, any license violation is a problem
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| 13:27 | enthu1234 | obviously
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| 13:27 | enthu1234 | e.g. usage of your hardware with entirely own developed software probably doesn't mean that own software has to be published under open source liscence
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| 13:28 | Bertl | correct
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| 13:28 | enthu1234 | now the more complex thing is where your software is used partially, while some own software is used, now obviously your software has to be added with the product in so far as it is GPL
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| 13:28 | Bertl | you can run your completely proprietary software on the hardware
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| 13:28 | se6astian | enthu1234: I took your recent visit as opportunity to update our FAQ: https://www.apertus.org/faq#Can_I_sell_proprietary_software_that_runs_on_the_AXIOM_Beta_
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| 13:28 | enthu1234 | thank you
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| 13:28 | Bertl | you can write your proritetary firmware for the FPGAs
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| 13:29 | enthu1234 | now the question is: assume I have some proprietary components of the firmware of my own, thats illegal right?
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| 13:29 | Bertl | you can build your completely proprietary plugins
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| 13:29 | se6astian | Titin: can you tell us a bit about yourself, what have you done so far?
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| 13:29 | enthu1234 | I can't have some own special code for e.g. industrial application specific
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| 13:29 | enthu1234 | without making it open source
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| 13:29 | enthu1234 | if I use otherwise your firmware
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| 13:29 | enthu1234 | plugins are ok?
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| 13:29 | Bertl | that depends on the location and interface
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| 13:30 | Bertl | for example, it will be hard to impossible to combine your proprietary FPGA IP with the open source firmware
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| 13:30 | Bertl | but it will be easy/simple to run a proprietary app on the Linux
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| 13:30 | enthu1234 | you mean in terms of legality
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| 13:31 | Bertl | yes
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| 13:31 | enthu1234 | so if I change HDL, I also have to change do the software side all on my own
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| 13:32 | Bertl | really depends on the changes
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| 13:32 | enthu1234 | I mean is there some level of where I could e.g. ask
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| 13:32 | enthu1234 | like if I ask a specific council or whatever of your apertus association
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| 13:32 | enthu1234 | and they say its ok
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| 13:32 | enthu1234 | then I have some sort of certainity
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| 13:32 | enthu1234 | for that specific project
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| 13:33 | enthu1234 | or could I then be sued by a third-party anyway
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| 13:33 | Bertl | we are a member of the FSF/FSFE so they can probably help with the legal stuff
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| 13:33 | enthu1234 | because of that "it depends"
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| 13:33 | enthu1234 | ah ok
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| 13:33 | enthu1234 | yeah I see how the problem is that it isn't so clear cut where its a "component" and where it isn't a "component"
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| 13:36 | enthu1234 | Ah anyway i wanted to say that your project is pretty cool.
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| 13:36 | Bertl | thanks!
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| 13:36 | se6astian | what you can definitely do (Bertl please correct me if I am wrong) is doing any closed source processing on an additional FPGA in a plugin module for example
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| 13:36 | enthu1234 | though it would be nice to have a bit more documentation ^.^
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| 13:37 | enthu1234 | I mean, at least I didn't find it for the VHDL code on the github page
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| 13:37 | se6astian | then there is a clear interface between "the camera" and "your hardware/IP"
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| 13:37 | enthu1234 | Ah yes
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| 13:37 | Bertl | sure, as I said, plugin modules can be as proprietary as they can get :)
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| 13:37 | Bertl | same is true for shields btw
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| 13:38 | enthu1234 | but you know, say I want some sort of high speed image processing or something low latency, as needed for some industrial processes, you'll need to directly access the camera esp. for the latency improvement side
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| 13:38 | se6astian | the plugin module slots provide exactly that
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| 13:38 | Bertl | the plugin interface is roughly capable of 15Gbit/s throughput
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| 13:39 | enthu1234 | oh
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| 13:39 | enthu1234 | that sounds nice
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| 13:40 | se6astian | and latency for data arriving on the plugin modules is low (is it 1 frame currently Bertl?)
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| 13:41 | Bertl | you can easily bypass the frame buffer and send data directly from the sensor to the plugin interface
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| 13:41 | enthu1234 | and just have that part published
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| 13:41 | Bertl | which gives you near zero latency
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| 13:41 | enthu1234 | which is no problem
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| 13:41 | enthu1234 | or is it directly configurable?
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| 13:42 | Bertl | not presently but as you said, it is a small modification you can easily do and publish
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| 13:46 | enthu1234 | Btw. whats the plan for the FPN Compensation so far?
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| 13:47 | Bertl | well, there are basically three options
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| 13:48 | Bertl | - complete FPN in post
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| 13:48 | Bertl | - RCN correction (Row/Column based)
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| 13:48 | Bertl | - Dark Frame/Gain correction based on memory image
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| 13:52 | Adnan | joined the channel |
| 13:53 | Adnan | Hi everyone
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| 13:54 | Bertl | hey
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| 13:54 | Adnan | i am new hear i hope you will help me to sort out things
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| 13:55 | Adnan | actually i will start my work with this org after 6 or 7 days currently i am giving my semester exams
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| 13:57 | se6astian | hi Adnan
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| 13:58 | se6astian | sounds great, what would you like to work on or contribute to?
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| 14:01 | se6astian | enthu1234: to clarify regarding FPN: we currently do a mix of 1 and 2
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| 14:01 | se6astian | rcn correction can be done in FPGA in realtime
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| 14:01 | se6astian | and we remove the remaining FPN in post
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| 14:02 | se6astian | any of these steps is optional of course
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| 14:02 | enthu1234 | ah ok
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| 14:02 | se6astian | and both steps require a calibration
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| 14:02 | enthu1234 | something I wondered about
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| 14:02 | enthu1234 | when you have dead pixels
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| 14:02 | enthu1234 | what interpolation do you use
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| 14:02 | enthu1234 | to compensate
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| 14:02 | se6astian | currently we dont interpolate
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| 14:02 | enthu1234 | ah ok
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| 14:02 | enthu1234 | so you just have black pixels
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| 14:03 | enthu1234 | and people will do something in postproduction so to speak
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| 14:03 | Bertl | well, we haven't had a sensor with bad pixels yet
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| 14:03 | Bertl | but yeah, that's the idea
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| 14:03 | se6astian | the plan is to save any dead pixel locations in metadata
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| 14:04 | se6astian | so they can be sorted out in raw development as you said
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| 14:04 | enthu1234 | and the recognition
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| 14:04 | enthu1234 | just use a white wall
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| 14:04 | enthu1234 | or what
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| 14:04 | enthu1234 | or do it on the fly
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| 14:05 | enthu1234 | with normal images and then some processing to detect
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| 14:06 | Adnan | se6astian:actually GSOC
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| 14:07 | Adnan | that i why i would like to contribute to your orginsation and in future also
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| 14:07 | se6astian | enthu1234: any out of focus mid grey wall should work to detect white or black pixels standing out
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| 14:07 | se6astian | Adnan: very well!
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| 14:08 | enthu1234 | yeah so its ~the white wall approach
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| 14:08 | se6astian | did you have a look at our idea page from last year already?
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| 14:08 | Adnan | yes i gone through but i didnot understand any of them yet...
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| 14:08 | se6astian | enthu1234: on the fly detection is probably an overkill and not as reliable as real world content can create 1 pixel sized highlights
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| 14:09 | enthu1234 | well 1 pixel sized highlights.. but not over a lot of very different looking pictures
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| 14:09 | se6astian | also dead pixels dont normally pop up over time, they are there from the beginning
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| 14:09 | enthu1234 | all at the same place
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| 14:09 | enthu1234 | yeah thats a really good argument
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| 14:09 | enthu1234 | if new ones don't come its pointless
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| 14:09 | enthu1234 | to do anything but that wall approach
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| 14:09 | se6astian | Adnan: what is your particular interest, what programming language are you good in?
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| 14:10 | Bertl | enthu1234: and you can always redo this and update the data
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| 14:10 | Adnan | se6astian:c and c++
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| 14:10 | se6astian | enthu1234: if a new dead pixel does pop up for whatever reason its easy to add it to the metadata even of existing clips
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| 14:10 | enthu1234 | true
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| 14:11 | se6astian | Adnan: then any non FPGA/HDL tasks could be interesting to you I guess
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| 14:11 | se6astian | https://lab.apertus.org/project/view/20/
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| 14:12 | se6astian | check out what our students did this year as projects: https://www.apertus.org/google-summer-of-code-wrap-article-august-2018
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| 14:12 | Adnan | actually i got intrest ian your org by seeing video one of your last year gsoc 2018 student supergay
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| 14:12 | Adnan | supergaya
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| 14:13 | enthu1234 | oops, what a typo
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| 14:17 | Adnan | se6astian: thank you i will try to get knowledge about this
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| 14:17 | Bertl | yeah, I would be ashamed to confuse its with it's :)
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| 14:18 | enthu1234 | I just checked, apparently I'm not ashamed of that
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| 14:18 | Bertl | we won't hold it against you
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| 14:19 | enthu1234 | thanks!
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| 14:23 | Adnan | i hope i am not disturbing you Guys
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| 14:23 | enthu1234 | neither do I
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| 14:23 | Adnan | left the channel |
| 14:23 | enthu1234 | I meant I hope I'm not disturbing anyone either
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| 14:25 | se6astian | not at all, this channel is very quiet most of the time, its refreshing to see things happening :)
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| 14:25 | enthu1234 | seb6astian: are you the austrian guy?
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| 14:30 | se6astian | well I am an Austrian guy yes :)
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| 14:34 | enthu1234 | yeah I'm not sure how many Sebastians from Austria participate at the Axiom, but I'd assume it is an exclusive circle
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| 14:37 | enthu1234 | One of your not yet started projects is the interfacing with the actuators of the optical system
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| 14:37 | enthu1234 | motors for lens and such
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| 14:38 | enthu1234 | isn't that a bit huge, considering how many different standards there are?
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| 14:38 | se6astian | yeah, we are a bit afraid of getting into that
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| 14:38 | se6astian | lens communication in general
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| 14:38 | se6astian | but we will do it at some point
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| 14:40 | enthu1234 | if someone wants to do that, he needs a lot of cameras already to do all the reverse engineering of a lot of standards, right?
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| 14:41 | se6astian | well I wouldnt say its "a lot" but a few yes
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| 14:41 | se6astian | and then the different dialects of different lenses as well
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| 14:42 | enthu1234 | yeah I guess that alone makes it hard to get started if its all a single project
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| 14:42 | se6astian | yes, and then whenever a new lens comes out you need to check if it works, make small modifications
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| 14:42 | se6astian | a maintenance nightmare
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| 14:44 | enthu1234 | but there is no real security or anything right?
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| 14:45 | enthu1234 | this is all just spi or i2c firmware so to speak, that is totally undocumented
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| 14:45 | se6astian | I think so yes
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| 14:46 | enthu1234 | so one could e.g. contribute by just choosing one camera + lens, make a set up to log all the communication, do a small setup with a microcontroller to verify one understood what is doing what, and then supply that documentation
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| 14:47 | enthu1234 | and if that was done by a bunch of people, the job of integrating the results into axiom project wouldn't be anything scary anymore
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| 14:47 | enthu1234 | at all
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| 14:50 | se6astian | true
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| 14:50 | se6astian | its not rocket science, still it requires quite an effort as you need to put a device between camera and lens
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| 14:50 | enthu1234 | yeah but then the issue really is that its a too big chunk as a single project I guess
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| 14:51 | enthu1234 | that makes it scary
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| 14:51 | se6astian | indeed
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| 14:51 | enthu1234 | but you have that totally under your control, you can just split it up
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| 14:56 | se6astian | its one of many things still on the todo list
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| 15:39 | Bertl | off for now ... bbl
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| 15:45 | Kjetil | On lens communication. I was looking into it a few.. well, actually many years ago. Then I focused on Nikon F-mount lenses. As far as i can remember there is some information available online, such as the basic layout of the internal i2c rom in the lens. But the project stalled as it was hard to get hold of the proper connectors. (This was before 3D printing became a big thing)
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| 17:41 | RexOrCine | (18:27:44) enthu1234: 14:34:27> yeah I'm not sure how many Sebastians from Austria participate at the Axiom, but I'd assume it is an exclusive circle.... (18:27:44) se6astian: 14:41:41> well I wouldnt say its "a lot" but a few yes ... < Nobody is sure. But there's definitely at least one body double to my certain knowledge.
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| 17:42 | RexOrCine | One can drive the other one can't.
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| 17:43 | RexOrCine | Search for "Vienna Road Rage. Austria's Maddest Drivers. Best Public Freakouts."
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| 21:37 | se6astian | off to bed
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| 21:37 | se6astian | good night
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