| 02:04 | Bertl_oO | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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| 02:04 | Bertl_oO | changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
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| 08:09 | Napejts | does steingate has lot fights like hunter x?
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| 08:42 | Spirit532 | hey, apertus dev people
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| 08:42 | Spirit532 | have any of you tried to push the cmv sensor clock?
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| 08:43 | Spirit532 | CMOSIS don't mention the possibility of overclocking ANYWHERE in their datasheets, so I'm curious how it would perform at higher clocks
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| 08:44 | Spirit532 | nothing crazy, 50-100MHz higher at most
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| 08:46 | Spirit532 | though 100MHz is quite insane in terms of image sensor clock
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| 09:19 | Spirit532 | anybody? :(
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| 09:40 | se6astian | nope, we didnt do it
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| 09:41 | Spirit532 | can you try it? :)
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| 09:42 | Spirit532 | I'm debating on whether or not I should take the CMV2k and make something low-end, but overclocked
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| 09:43 | se6astian | not with the current hardware
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| 09:43 | Spirit532 | why not?
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| 09:44 | Spirit532 | even with 32 pairs instead of 64 on the cmv12k you have right now, it should be possible to just bump the clock and see if you get an image
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| 09:45 | se6astian | sure but it might behave quite differently
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| 09:45 | se6astian | also we are running the CMV12k at 250mhz instead of 600 currently
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| 09:46 | Spirit532 | oh.
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| 09:52 | Bertl_zZ | changed nick to: Bertl
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| 09:52 | Bertl | morning folks!
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| 09:53 | Bertl | Spirit532: what do you hope for when you overclock the sensor by 10% or so?
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| 09:54 | Spirit532 | higher framerate
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| 09:54 | Bertl | so instead of let's say 600FPS, 660?
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| 09:55 | Spirit532 | that's a tiny overclock
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| 09:55 | Bertl | 10%
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| 09:55 | Spirit532 | most sensors are capable of 50% and higher
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| 09:55 | Bertl | well, I doubt that at 600MHz
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| 09:56 | Spirit532 | no reason to not try
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| 09:56 | Bertl | except for the high sensor price .. but yes
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| 09:58 | Spirit532 | you won't kill the sensor if it's cooled
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| 09:58 | Spirit532 | maybe lock it up, but nothing a reset won't fix
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| 10:09 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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| 10:11 | Bertl | for the CMV12k I wouldn't expect much overclocking to be possible
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| 10:11 | Bertl | they designed the sensor for 600MHz, but had to release the first version with 300MHz because they couldn't reliably reach the 600MHz
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| 10:12 | Bertl | version two now is specified at 600MHz though ...
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| 10:22 | Spirit532 | 680 IIRC
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| 11:10 | Bertl | off for now ... bbl
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| 13:52 | se6astian | we just moved into our new office: https://twitter.com/ApertusOSCinema/status/757545933794140160/photo/1
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| 13:54 | Spirit532 | se6astian, that's neat
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| 13:55 | Spirit532 | now you need to hire 30 underage chinese workers and reduce the price of the beta to $3
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| 13:55 | Spirit532 | what's the funny-looking metal table for?
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| 13:57 | se6astian | why not 60 - ah yes because thats not matching our philosophy: https://www.apertus.org/opensource
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| 13:58 | se6astian | the table is missing the tabletop
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| 15:43 | Spirit532 | So to go from 936 to 1000 fps @ 4096x1080 with the CMV12k the clock boost needs to only be 41MHz
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| 15:43 | Spirit532 | I think that's well within the reach, if not operating optimally
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| 15:44 | Spirit532 | gets you 1479fps @ 4096x720
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| 15:44 | Bertl_oO | it might be possible with some sensors
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| 15:44 | Bertl_oO | the problem is more that your calculation is flawed
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| 15:44 | Spirit532 | is it?
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| 15:44 | Bertl_oO | I presume so, at least from the values
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| 15:45 | Spirit532 | well, 1000/936 is 1.01683 recurring
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| 15:45 | Spirit532 | so we need to boost the clock 1.01683 times
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| 15:45 | Bertl_oO | there are three stages which consume time, the precharge, the exposure and the readout stage
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| 15:45 | Spirit532 | er, 1.0683
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| 15:46 | Bertl_oO | you cannot really speed up the precharge stage, even with higher clock rates
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| 15:46 | Bertl_oO | you also have some limits to the exposure time, but that shouldn't be that criticial around 1000FPS
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| 15:46 | Spirit532 | exposure time is fine
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| 15:46 | Spirit532 | 1/963rd is not that more than 1/1000th
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| 15:46 | Bertl_oO | and then you have the actual readout time, which will speed up as you crank up the clock
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| 15:47 | Spirit532 | (roughly speaking)
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| 15:47 | Bertl_oO | you also need to compensate for readout noise when you overlap exposure and readout
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| 15:48 | Spirit532 | theoretically though, "making the sensor go" 1.06 times faster should be doable
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| 15:48 | Bertl_oO | very likely
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| 15:49 | Spirit532 | I don't mind 936fps, but 1000 just ticks the OCD mark for me, heh
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| 15:49 | Bertl_oO | 6% is typically within the safety margin, especially if you cool the sensor
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| 15:49 | Spirit532 | I plan on doing active TE cooling the sensor in my camera
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| 15:49 | Spirit532 | that is, after I get enough money to do it, right now I'm sticking with the CMV2000, because it allows for overall much cheaper OTS hardware
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| 15:51 | Spirit532 | right now I'm planning on using the MYIR Z-turn board, since it's only $119 for the 7020, and it's got 39 LVDS pairs
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| 15:51 | Spirit532 | but I'm waiting on clarification on their 200MHz limit via the connectors
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| 15:52 | Bertl_oO | yes, looks like a good choice for this purpose
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| 15:52 | Bertl_oO | the connectors are unfortunately not very performant
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| 15:52 | Spirit532 | yeah, I really want to be able to run it full-speed
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| 15:52 | Spirit532 | plus I'd need that for the SSD to record raw
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| 15:53 | Bertl_oO | you plan to connect an SSD directly to the zynq?
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| 15:54 | Spirit532 | possibly
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| 15:54 | Spirit532 | or with some glue
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| 15:55 | Spirit532 | not sure about it yet, nothing is concrete - I haven't read much zync doku
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| 15:56 | Spirit532 | possibly CFast cards, if it's easier
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| 15:56 | Bertl_oO | sounds interesting ... let me know when you got a design which you think should work ...
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| 15:58 | Bertl_oO | the 1.27mm connectors on the back are an unfortunate design decision when it comes to high speed interfaces
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| 15:59 | Bertl_oO | you have a lot of cross talk, not much shielding or ground and the pins/pads are relatively large
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| 16:01 | Bertl_oO | you might get away with the 600MHz interface though, if you place the pairs properly ... but I don't see that you get up to 1GHz or higher on this connector, but please let me know how it goes
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| 16:02 | Spirit532 | I'm not going for 600
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| 16:02 | Spirit532 | the cmv2k has 16 pairs @ 480
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| 16:02 | Spirit532 | I want to push it to 500-550 to see if the sensor pops or starts displaying extraterrestrial alien images
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| 16:04 | Spirit532 | though it'll probably just stop functioning past 10% OC
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| 16:05 | Bertl_oO | looking forward to the alien images :)
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| 16:06 | Spirit532 | as am I :>
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| 16:06 | Spirit532 | hopefully it'll be soon, since there's not much to do
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| 16:06 | Spirit532 | make a simple length-matched breakout for the sensor and whatever IO I want
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| 17:01 | Bertl_oO | inter pair length matching for the sensor is something you can safely forget about
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| 17:02 | Bertl_oO | the LVDS pairs have a timing offset anyway, so you need to delay each of them separately
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| 17:02 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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| 17:03 | Bertl_oO | i.e. it is not a source synchronous output as the datasheet suggests ... i.e. each LVDS pair has a specific offset/phase
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| 18:46 | Spirit532 | Bertl_oO, but I like wiggly lines :(
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| 18:46 | Spirit532 | and it's 3 buttons
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| 18:47 | Bertl_oO | well, if you don't care about signal quality, go ahead :)
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| 18:47 | Spirit532 | is that... bad?
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| 18:47 | Spirit532 | I'm thinking of length matching it down to the package
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| 18:48 | Spirit532 | I have an x-ray machine that can give me the internal lengths :^)
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| 18:48 | Spirit532 | if you're overengineering, overengineer to the max! :D
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| 18:49 | Bertl_oO | the package lengths are specified by the manufacturer
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| 18:49 | Spirit532 | does cmosis specify theirs?
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| 18:50 | Spirit532 | I know xilinx does for the zynqs, but not sure about the cmvs
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| 18:50 | Bertl_oO | but it should be obvious, that length matching with meanders degrades the signal
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| 18:50 | Spirit532 | well, I won't be adding 50mm to each line
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| 18:50 | Bertl_oO | every bend will cause EM
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| 18:50 | Spirit532 | meh, I'll see
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| 18:51 | Spirit532 | the PCBS will be dirt cheap, since there won't be any BGAs or very tight tolerances
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| 18:51 | Spirit532 | I can probably even get away with 4 layers
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| 22:21 | Bertl_oO | off to bed now ...
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| 23:13 | se6astian | I am off to bed
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