Current Server Time: 15:16 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2015/12/24

Timezone: UTC


01:55
Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
01:55
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
07:56
pozitrono
joined the channel
08:16
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
08:16
Bertl
morning folks!
09:27
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
09:29
se6astian
good morning
09:38
danieel
morning :)
09:47
pozitrono
left the channel
11:18
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
11:18
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
11:47
se6astian
me too, christmas walk :)
11:47
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
12:21
arpu
joined the channel
12:51
arpu
left the channel
14:33
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
14:34
se6astian
beautiful christmas weather
14:34
se6astian
you can mow the lawn or have a christmas BBQ!
14:34
se6astian
at the pool
14:35
comradekingu
butbut the pool is frozen
14:37
intracube
10c here. almost t-shirt weather :)
14:40
intracube
was 16c a few days ago
15:18
troy_s
Rain here.
15:18
troy_s
Scheduled for the next year...
15:52
intracube
lol
16:02
troy_s
Happy hols to anyone celebrating such
16:21
intracube
troy_s: same to you
16:37
troy_s
intracube: Did you read that ACES article?
16:37
troy_s
intracube: There is a great paragraph where he begins to discuss the problems with display referred imaging.
16:39
intracube
troy_s: I did, yep
16:40
intracube
"...and archive it for an as yet un-invented display"
16:40
intracube
suggests that maybe in the future, some films will be remastered for higher dynamic range
16:42
intracube
it'd be interesting to know how many post production companies and studios archive with that in mind
16:42
intracube
thinks this might be the 'next thing' after 2K, 4K buzz
16:43
troy_s
It is a good article.
16:44
intracube
yep
16:44
troy_s
Touches on just-enough to tickle interest in minds that haven't been exposed to some of the concepts.
16:44
troy_s
Also is great at 'bigger picture' aspects when some folks get obsessed with cheating some aspect of camera bits to get some added element in a picture.
16:46
troy_s
intracube: Make no mistake, dynamic range is the next most compelling advancement. The HDR display at SIGGRAPH was the _only_ thing consistently with a group of folks around it.
16:47
troy_s
It is something that a layperson can see.
16:47
troy_s
Also, take note as to the default settings in a big box store.
16:47
troy_s
Massive luminance.
16:48
troy_s
The problem with 4k is that again, everyone forgets what DVDs brought to the table. I bang that pot every time a new thing comes out.
16:48
troy_s
DVDs brought better image quality, _but no one cared_.
16:49
troy_s
The two most compelling facets of DVD was, in no small terms,
16:49
troy_s
A) No need to rewind. This was huge.
16:49
troy_s
B) Sound. DVDs ushered in home theater in a way that bulky laserdiscs couldn't.
16:50
troy_s
Anything "next" can't rely on image quality.
16:50
intracube
DR is a part of image quality though
16:55
intracube
troy_s: http://www.cnet.com/news/4k-blu-ray-discs-arriving-in-2015-to-fight-streaming-media/
16:55
intracube
"new specification also will improve color gamut dramatically and offer a higher dynamic range"
17:02
troy_s
Interesting battle.
17:02
troy_s
Rather a lost cause.
17:02
troy_s
The disk is dead.
17:03
intracube
not in parts of the world without reliable fibre
17:03
troy_s
Dynamic range is part of image quality yes, but it is also a logarithmic leap compares to density
17:04
troy_s
As in if I took a 2k HDR display and set it beside a 4k, I assure you that on a casual street 99% will take the HDR in terms of interest level.
17:04
troy_s
Also remember 4K DOESN'T REALLY EXIST.
17:04
troy_s
It is an upsampled image in the vast bulk of instances, which has little gain over a sophisticated upsample at your media player.
17:05
intracube
troy_s: yep, HDR would look far more snappy. 2K to 4K is more subtle
17:05
troy_s
Sure... An F65 can do a native 4k.
17:05
troy_s
Not only that, density is a byproduct of size.
17:05
troy_s
Which means after a typical 10 foot viewing distance, the difference is bugger all.
17:05
intracube
troy_s: and a lot of digital download business models don't work in the consumers favour
17:05
troy_s
Whereas HDR carries across your whole viewing field.
17:06
troy_s
Oh god no.
17:06
intracube
DRM, proprietary viewers, no physical copy
17:06
troy_s
I am just saying that ship has sailed.
17:06
intracube
but most people don't seem to mind
17:06
troy_s
Eurowestern lazy convenience sank that.
17:06
troy_s
“Yet millions seem happy with streaming video, despite its shortcomings.”
17:06
troy_s
Tag line eradicated the whole point of the article.
17:07
troy_s
So again, HDR carries down stream pipes.
17:07
troy_s
People don't appreciate what a higher range brings; you have to see it.
17:07
troy_s
It is that visceral "Sheesh what the hell?"
17:08
troy_s
Like looking out a window.
17:08
troy_s
Your whole perceptual field shifts as your brain suddenly reads 3D cues in the content
17:19
irieger
hey folks! HDR is the thing.
17:19
irieger
And you know what: Most likely people buying a TV are soon buying HDR-TVs. When the markets start selling different HDR screens we will see
17:20
irieger
but in general the higher brightnes will sell them. Higher brightnes also looks more saturated even if it technically isn't which will help ;-)
17:21
irieger
is just hoping for a good and somewhat affordable 55/65" 4K HDR next year *dreaming*
17:28
irieger
And btw. UHD BluRays sadly didn't arrive. For good movies I'd always prefer the Disc. UHD BD allows up to 100 mbit/s which stream will likely not use in the near future
17:29
troy_s
HDR screens are a ways off
17:29
troy_s
Lenovo demoed one.
17:30
troy_s
The issue will be content.
17:30
troy_s
Rather like watching sRGB untransformed on a wider gamut; you have to master for the display.
17:30
troy_s
So content would require a remastering
17:31
troy_s
Not sure even how to do that as if you only have sRGB / 709 footage, or even 2020, we still lose track of where the luminance should "go".
17:32
troy_s
Interesting question. I suppose if a display is already color managed, and we can take chromaticity nightmare out of it, there is probably a reasonable curve that would permit "upscaling" existing content to HDR.
17:38
intracube
troy_s: a HDR display would (hopefully) finally sort out raised black level that affects all the LCD displays I've seen
17:39
intracube
so even with DVD, it could look significantly better
17:40
troy_s
To quote Caleb D, you can solve blacks by putting something bright in the frame :)
17:41
intracube
pff. cheating :)
18:31
Bertl_oO
off for an x-mas nap ... bbl
18:31
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
19:41
irieger
troy_s: upscaling is shit or has to be done pretty careful
19:42
irieger
and in auto mode it will be over the top most likely
19:42
irieger
cause color and brightnes sell the stuff.
19:43
irieger
"Had" to watch skyfall, the best bond movie in terms of cinematography in my view, at a friends house last christmas. He liked his TV. I closed my eyes and listened to bond...
19:43
irieger
I don't even get how one can like very oversaturated skin tones...
19:45
irieger
the color and brightnes management is the point why from the different HDR approches, Dolby Vision is the only I would aim for.
19:46
irieger
It is designed to handle the capabilities of a TV with the creative intend of the cinematographer/colorist by delivering metadata with the fotage
19:47
irieger
while dolby recomends finishing a 4000nits master currently (as long as no display supports PQs max of 10000 nits), you do trim passes for different capabilities which will be transported in metadata.
19:49
irieger
NHK/BBC developed their Hybrid Log Gamma which is intended to deliver a usable image on a standard Gamma 2.6 SDR screen and HDR on a HDR TV.
19:50
irieger
But no specifics about the real rendering. Will just be handled different on different sets anyway. God for live TV but bad for movies.
19:53
troy_s
irieger: You missed my point
19:53
troy_s
irieger: All "4K" is up samples.
19:54
troy_s
Upsampled goddamn autocorrect
19:54
troy_s
In terms of HDR, the Lenovo display as well as Christie was stunning.
19:55
troy_s
And yes yes yes... Trim passes are uh... Many years well known if you crawl some of the spew in this channel log.
19:55
troy_s
;)
19:56
troy_s
But really, the same issues face forward looking tech such as the DCI-P3 *cough not really* iMacs.
19:56
troy_s
Not an easy problem to solve.
19:56
troy_s
(And by "all 4K" statement above, the _vast_ majority with the exception being the F65 plus or minus one.)
22:13
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
22:13
Bertl
back now ...
22:26
se6astian
off to bed
22:26
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
22:26
Bertl
nn