Current Server Time: 21:49 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2015/12/24

Timezone: UTC


00:55
Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
00:55
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
06:56
pozitrono
joined the channel
07:16
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
07:16
Bertl
morning folks!
08:27
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
08:29
se6astian
good morning
08:38
danieel
morning :)
08:47
pozitrono
left the channel
10:18
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
10:18
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
10:47
se6astian
me too, christmas walk :)
10:47
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
11:21
arpu
joined the channel
11:51
arpu
left the channel
13:33
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
13:34
se6astian
beautiful christmas weather
13:34
se6astian
you can mow the lawn or have a christmas BBQ!
13:34
se6astian
at the pool
13:35
comradekingu
butbut the pool is frozen
13:37
intracube
10c here. almost t-shirt weather :)
13:40
intracube
was 16c a few days ago
14:18
troy_s
Rain here.
14:18
troy_s
Scheduled for the next year...
14:52
intracube
lol
15:02
troy_s
Happy hols to anyone celebrating such
15:21
intracube
troy_s: same to you
15:37
troy_s
intracube: Did you read that ACES article?
15:37
troy_s
intracube: There is a great paragraph where he begins to discuss the problems with display referred imaging.
15:39
intracube
troy_s: I did, yep
15:40
intracube
"...and archive it for an as yet un-invented display"
15:40
intracube
suggests that maybe in the future, some films will be remastered for higher dynamic range
15:42
intracube
it'd be interesting to know how many post production companies and studios archive with that in mind
15:42
intracube
thinks this might be the 'next thing' after 2K, 4K buzz
15:43
troy_s
It is a good article.
15:44
intracube
yep
15:44
troy_s
Touches on just-enough to tickle interest in minds that haven't been exposed to some of the concepts.
15:44
troy_s
Also is great at 'bigger picture' aspects when some folks get obsessed with cheating some aspect of camera bits to get some added element in a picture.
15:46
troy_s
intracube: Make no mistake, dynamic range is the next most compelling advancement. The HDR display at SIGGRAPH was the _only_ thing consistently with a group of folks around it.
15:47
troy_s
It is something that a layperson can see.
15:47
troy_s
Also, take note as to the default settings in a big box store.
15:47
troy_s
Massive luminance.
15:48
troy_s
The problem with 4k is that again, everyone forgets what DVDs brought to the table. I bang that pot every time a new thing comes out.
15:48
troy_s
DVDs brought better image quality, _but no one cared_.
15:49
troy_s
The two most compelling facets of DVD was, in no small terms,
15:49
troy_s
A) No need to rewind. This was huge.
15:49
troy_s
B) Sound. DVDs ushered in home theater in a way that bulky laserdiscs couldn't.
15:50
troy_s
Anything "next" can't rely on image quality.
15:50
intracube
DR is a part of image quality though
15:55
intracube
troy_s: http://www.cnet.com/news/4k-blu-ray-discs-arriving-in-2015-to-fight-streaming-media/
15:55
intracube
"new specification also will improve color gamut dramatically and offer a higher dynamic range"
16:02
troy_s
Interesting battle.
16:02
troy_s
Rather a lost cause.
16:02
troy_s
The disk is dead.
16:03
intracube
not in parts of the world without reliable fibre
16:03
troy_s
Dynamic range is part of image quality yes, but it is also a logarithmic leap compares to density
16:04
troy_s
As in if I took a 2k HDR display and set it beside a 4k, I assure you that on a casual street 99% will take the HDR in terms of interest level.
16:04
troy_s
Also remember 4K DOESN'T REALLY EXIST.
16:04
troy_s
It is an upsampled image in the vast bulk of instances, which has little gain over a sophisticated upsample at your media player.
16:05
intracube
troy_s: yep, HDR would look far more snappy. 2K to 4K is more subtle
16:05
troy_s
Sure... An F65 can do a native 4k.
16:05
troy_s
Not only that, density is a byproduct of size.
16:05
troy_s
Which means after a typical 10 foot viewing distance, the difference is bugger all.
16:05
intracube
troy_s: and a lot of digital download business models don't work in the consumers favour
16:05
troy_s
Whereas HDR carries across your whole viewing field.
16:06
troy_s
Oh god no.
16:06
intracube
DRM, proprietary viewers, no physical copy
16:06
troy_s
I am just saying that ship has sailed.
16:06
intracube
but most people don't seem to mind
16:06
troy_s
Eurowestern lazy convenience sank that.
16:06
troy_s
“Yet millions seem happy with streaming video, despite its shortcomings.”
16:06
troy_s
Tag line eradicated the whole point of the article.
16:07
troy_s
So again, HDR carries down stream pipes.
16:07
troy_s
People don't appreciate what a higher range brings; you have to see it.
16:07
troy_s
It is that visceral "Sheesh what the hell?"
16:08
troy_s
Like looking out a window.
16:08
troy_s
Your whole perceptual field shifts as your brain suddenly reads 3D cues in the content
16:19
irieger
hey folks! HDR is the thing.
16:19
irieger
And you know what: Most likely people buying a TV are soon buying HDR-TVs. When the markets start selling different HDR screens we will see
16:20
irieger
but in general the higher brightnes will sell them. Higher brightnes also looks more saturated even if it technically isn't which will help ;-)
16:21
irieger
is just hoping for a good and somewhat affordable 55/65" 4K HDR next year *dreaming*
16:28
irieger
And btw. UHD BluRays sadly didn't arrive. For good movies I'd always prefer the Disc. UHD BD allows up to 100 mbit/s which stream will likely not use in the near future
16:29
troy_s
HDR screens are a ways off
16:29
troy_s
Lenovo demoed one.
16:30
troy_s
The issue will be content.
16:30
troy_s
Rather like watching sRGB untransformed on a wider gamut; you have to master for the display.
16:30
troy_s
So content would require a remastering
16:31
troy_s
Not sure even how to do that as if you only have sRGB / 709 footage, or even 2020, we still lose track of where the luminance should "go".
16:32
troy_s
Interesting question. I suppose if a display is already color managed, and we can take chromaticity nightmare out of it, there is probably a reasonable curve that would permit "upscaling" existing content to HDR.
16:38
intracube
troy_s: a HDR display would (hopefully) finally sort out raised black level that affects all the LCD displays I've seen
16:39
intracube
so even with DVD, it could look significantly better
16:40
troy_s
To quote Caleb D, you can solve blacks by putting something bright in the frame :)
16:41
intracube
pff. cheating :)
17:31
Bertl_oO
off for an x-mas nap ... bbl
17:31
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
18:41
irieger
troy_s: upscaling is shit or has to be done pretty careful
18:42
irieger
and in auto mode it will be over the top most likely
18:42
irieger
cause color and brightnes sell the stuff.
18:43
irieger
"Had" to watch skyfall, the best bond movie in terms of cinematography in my view, at a friends house last christmas. He liked his TV. I closed my eyes and listened to bond...
18:43
irieger
I don't even get how one can like very oversaturated skin tones...
18:45
irieger
the color and brightnes management is the point why from the different HDR approches, Dolby Vision is the only I would aim for.
18:46
irieger
It is designed to handle the capabilities of a TV with the creative intend of the cinematographer/colorist by delivering metadata with the fotage
18:47
irieger
while dolby recomends finishing a 4000nits master currently (as long as no display supports PQs max of 10000 nits), you do trim passes for different capabilities which will be transported in metadata.
18:49
irieger
NHK/BBC developed their Hybrid Log Gamma which is intended to deliver a usable image on a standard Gamma 2.6 SDR screen and HDR on a HDR TV.
18:50
irieger
But no specifics about the real rendering. Will just be handled different on different sets anyway. God for live TV but bad for movies.
18:53
troy_s
irieger: You missed my point
18:53
troy_s
irieger: All "4K" is up samples.
18:54
troy_s
Upsampled goddamn autocorrect
18:54
troy_s
In terms of HDR, the Lenovo display as well as Christie was stunning.
18:55
troy_s
And yes yes yes... Trim passes are uh... Many years well known if you crawl some of the spew in this channel log.
18:55
troy_s
;)
18:56
troy_s
But really, the same issues face forward looking tech such as the DCI-P3 *cough not really* iMacs.
18:56
troy_s
Not an easy problem to solve.
18:56
troy_s
(And by "all 4K" statement above, the _vast_ majority with the exception being the F65 plus or minus one.)
21:13
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
21:13
Bertl
back now ...
21:26
se6astian
off to bed
21:26
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
21:26
Bertl
nn