Current Server Time: 23:59 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2014/11/24

Timezone: UTC


23:19
g3gg0
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fsteinel_
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davidak
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aombk
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04:42
troy_s
Are you high? Erf.
05:20
comradekingu
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davidak
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07:05
Bertl_zZ
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07:05
Bertl
morning folks!
07:34
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
07:36
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
07:37
mars_
morning
07:42
se6astian
good morning
09:00
intracube
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09:31
g3gg0
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09:59
lab-bot
sebastian created T189: add piwik tracking of phabricator. http://lab.apertus.org/T189
10:00
lab-bot
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10:05
lab-bot
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10:13
lab-bot
sebastian created T190: adding header bar to phabricator. http://lab.apertus.org/T190
10:14
lab-bot
sebastian closed T103: update header bar that connects our platforms together as "Resolved". http://lab.apertus.org/T103
12:44
mooseboobs
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15:25
intracube
se6astian: regarding the datasheets; the one for the CMV12000 isn't public
15:26
intracube
maybe it was before...
15:26
intracube
it makes me think cmosis might not want some of the data freely available
15:28
intracube
anyway, a test (sortable) table for the CMV12000 registers: https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php?title=User:Intracube#CMOSIS_CMV12000_registers
15:43
se6astian
intracube: https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/beta-hardware/tree/master/Datasheets
15:49
intracube
se6astian: yep, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't any NDA issue
16:06
davidak
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16:06
comradekingu
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16:07
comradekingu
first day of my new job finished :) Working for the national TV/radio broadcaster in Norway
16:08
comradekingu
Im on the technical department, hopefully the next batch of cameras can be apertus ones
16:10
davidak
that would be amazing
16:10
se6astian
intracube: no NDA issues
16:11
se6astian
comradekingu: great :)
16:12
intracube
comradekingu: cool :) NRK?
16:12
intracube
but management might be resistent to buying into something relatively unknown
16:12
comradekingu
intracube: yes, NRK trondheim
16:13
comradekingu
intracube: gopros seem to be popular, and those are in stock
16:20
comradekingu
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17:00
davidak1
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17:49
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl
17:54
davidak1
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18:02
comradekingu
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18:04
comradekingu
any feedback on the home-wip? I only got "Are you high? Erf." before logging out yesterday
18:08
Bertl
context?
18:11
comradekingu
https://www.apertus.org/home-wip
18:14
Bertl
looks nice to me
18:14
Bertl
I mean the content, the typesetting is as ugly as always (i.e. drupal)
18:15
comradekingu
i could go Documentation: Creative Commons by-sa 3.0 Software: GNU gplv3 Hardware: Cern OHL
18:15
Bertl
CERN OHL might want to add v1.2 there, GPL V3 is a stretch though
18:15
lab-bot
V3: Rename the "Dictator" to "Governator" ? Come Vote http://lab.apertus.org/V3
18:15
Bertl
i.e. kernel changes and similar are GPL V2
18:15
lab-bot
V2: Should we invite the team to phabricator? Come Vote http://lab.apertus.org/V2
18:16
comradekingu
I think governator has a sense of embarassment to it
18:16
Bertl
(ignore labbot, he has a fetish for V*)
18:18
comradekingu
Bertl: i got gplv3 from the license page
18:18
comradekingu
are they gplv2 only, or 2+?
18:18
Bertl
yeah, I know, tools and similar created by us will be gplv3
18:18
comradekingu
https://www.apertus.org/license
18:18
Bertl
but changes to the Linux Kernel will still be gplv2, because the kernel is gplv2
18:19
comradekingu
"All apertus° software is released under the GNU GPL V3 if not stated otherwise within the softwares source tree."
18:19
Bertl
so it would be good to write V2/3
18:19
Bertl
(or something like that)
18:19
Bertl
but not a big deal
18:19
comradekingu
is there a particual reason for not running v3 on everything?
18:20
Bertl
yes, Linus decided that the kernel will be v2, forever :)
18:20
intracube
comradekingu: home-wip page looks broken here on firefox
18:20
intracube
all the top menus are expanded and full width
18:20
comradekingu
top menus?
18:20
intracube
home/about/cameras/media
18:21
comradekingu
I dont see how kernel changes are significant enough to warrant any say in how the actual apertus code is licensed
18:22
intracube
comradekingu: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-L-nA5K5mxXk/VHOFaGDt3BI/AAAAAAAAA74/lWNEoD-g3Rc/w876-h816-no/apertus_home-wip_FF.png
18:22
comradekingu
intracube: hmmm i didnt touch that, must be some leftovers
18:23
slikdigit
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slikdigit
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slikdigit
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18:23
intracube
oh, wait. force reload has fixed it
18:24
comradekingu
how do you do that on FF?
18:24
intracube
ctrl + r
18:24
comradekingu
oh
18:25
Bertl
yeah, there is a cache issue since the beginning
18:25
Bertl
best to add ?foo0001 when you are testing
18:25
Bertl
and incerement the number every time
18:29
comradekingu
is there a less verbose way of writing "documentation"
18:29
comradekingu
I suppose it should cover images too?
18:29
Bertl
like the wiki?
18:29
comradekingu
all media CC-BY-SA v3.0?
18:30
comradekingu
Bertl: the wiki is already CC-BY-SA i think
18:30
intracube
comradekingu: the CC/GPL/CERN images take up a lot of space
18:30
intracube
and it's a bit wordy... (IMO)
18:30
comradekingu
Content is available under Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial Share Alike.
18:31
comradekingu
ok, we have "looks like marketing" "looks nice" "is wordy"
18:32
intracube
a bit too much poetry - "apertus° gives back what has been taken from the user, a return to power where it belongs"
18:32
intracube
I'd have a preference for the style to be direct/matter of fact
18:32
comradekingu
ok, what does that mean in practice?
18:33
comradekingu
A straight factual approach is unpersonal and not that friendly
18:33
intracube
^ I wouldn't read into it that way
18:34
intracube
as a new visitor to a site, I'd want to know what apertus and AXIOM are in the first three sentences
18:34
comradekingu
yes, but would you read it, is the issue i think is the decider
18:34
comradekingu
intracube: you get that with the header image
18:35
comradekingu
Could replace the black camera image with that, i only used it because it looks somewhat like a cinema screen
18:35
comradekingu
and it ties in with the ingress
18:36
comradekingu
But isnt all the documentation on the wiki, where its BY-SA-NC ?
18:37
comradekingu
What is the ruling on the NC part?
18:38
intracube
comradekingu: yep, the header image is also obscure
18:39
comradekingu
i can tell that its a camera, or?
18:40
comradekingu
What kind of license does the apertus films use?
18:40
comradekingu
The indiegogo videos for example?
18:41
Bertl
I presume those are CC as well, but double check with se6astian
18:45
comradekingu
Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 *International* 3.0 *Unported* 2.5 *Generic* 2.0 *Generic* 1.0 *Generic*
18:46
comradekingu
difference between 3.0 and 4.0 very unclear http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/
18:47
comradekingu
ill open up a lab ticket if it goes unanswered
18:49
lab-bot
intracube created T191: register table sources. http://lab.apertus.org/T191
18:52
intracube
changed nick to: intracube_afk
21:16
se6astian
time for bed
21:16
se6astian
good night
21:16
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
21:40
troy_s
intracube_afk: Is that fair to want to know what it is in three sentences?
21:40
troy_s
(Or realistic)
21:40
slikdigit
left the channel
21:40
troy_s
Or is there a (large?) chance that an imager has learned about a rather off-the-path concept from another imager?
21:41
troy_s
And if so, what design context comes with that?
21:43
troy_s
Bluntly, 99% of the Libre side is probably moot, doubly so where the price point fixes the project. As a useful bit of “buy one” leverage, good faith and warm and fuzzy feelings are probably so below moot as to be nonexistent comradekingu
21:45
troy_s
Imagers, at least the ones I know, tend to want to know what a tool brings to the table. Is the latitude greater? Bit depth? Can it behave within an ecosystem? How reliable is it?
21:45
troy_s
Those aren't future facing questions. There is no “It could be!”
21:54
Bertl
well, to be fair here, the AXIOM is the first of its kind, so change is probably required (to some degree)
22:00
troy_s
Bertl: Addressing which point?
22:02
Bertl
regarding what "imagers" ask and care about
22:02
troy_s
Oh yes. I wasn't really speaking precisely to the Beta.
22:02
troy_s
As that is going to be a proving ground for certain.
22:03
troy_s
But the merits of a Libre design aren't exactly clear nor necessarily beneficial, so as a "selling" point it is moot.
22:03
Bertl
well, I think it is (to some extent) our duty to make the merits clear :)
22:04
Bertl
doesn't necessarily have to be in this way or form, but I think it is a good approach
22:06
troy_s
I would agree. Just not sure I have any evidence to support it.
22:06
Bertl
at some point in the future, there might be a comparison table on wikipedia, with columns like "can run custom software", "can be reprogrammed as toaster", "can be extended via plugins" etc
22:06
troy_s
(Doubly so as someone who is sadly too familiar with Libre software.)
22:06
troy_s
Sure. But that is also why Libre design stinks; it plays on could as opposed to should.
22:07
troy_s
(Should being anchored in design and context, could being anchored in speculation and random whim.)
22:08
Bertl
I think one problem here is (don't get me wrong, this is quite common) is that freedom per se is not valued
22:09
Bertl
it is something we took for granted for too long in IT and software, till it was slowly taken away without anybody noticing
22:10
Bertl
nowadays the situation is reversed, we have only little free (as in speech not beer) software and we take unfree software for granted
22:10
Bertl
and most folks do not even notice the missing freedom
22:10
Bertl
that said, this has no impact whatsoever on the quality or feature aspects
22:17
g3gg0
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22:23
troy_s
But freedom isn't exactly great if
22:23
troy_s
In the contexts of tools, the operator doesn't have the agency.
22:24
troy_s
That is, there are large numbers of imagers that have little care, need, ability, time, etc. to adopt the skill set of coding, engineering, etc.
22:25
troy_s
So the tool, the entire "upside" of this fictional liberty is completely moot. It is like giving someone a block of marble under the sale of liberty to carve what they want.
22:26
troy_s
(NOT trying to be contrarian here, and very much valuing the overall goal. Trying to highlight the practical real-world issues here with an imaging device.)
22:27
troy_s
And in terms of Quality, well you would have to demonstrate somewhere where this is true. Frankly it simply is almost nonexistent in Libre imaging.
22:27
troy_s
The software _stinks_.
22:30
Bertl
OTOH, nobody would buy a car which is completely sealed, where, if something breaks, no mechanic can help you, where you have to sign an agreement that you do not expect it to work and you must not use it in emergencies
22:33
Bertl
and what I can say for sure about proprietary/closed software is that it is in no way better than open source software
22:37
Bertl
it is in many cases way more complex and it usually has way more features (which nobody ever uses)
22:39
Bertl
the problem is more that for many areas there is no open source software available, for various reasons
22:53
troy_s
Evidence to the contrary. Tesla. Apple.
22:54
troy_s
That is an accepted peril when the device performs to the contextual expectation.
22:54
troy_s
In fact, there is a vast body of evidence to the contrary.
22:55
Bertl
you are aware that Tesla designs have been opened and that Apple uses an somewhat open operating system?
22:56
Bertl
as a matter of fact, a lot of the apple core software comes from the open source community