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| 03:28 | Bertl_oO | off to bed now .. have a good one everyone!
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| 08:11 | se6astian | We are starting to plan Team Talk 13 shootings
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| 08:11 | se6astian | so if you have topics that we should cover
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| 08:11 | se6astian | or ideas
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| 08:11 | se6astian | let me know
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| 08:37 | Bertl | morning folks!
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| 09:28 | sagnikbasu95 | Hi Bertl.
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| 09:28 | Bertl | hey sagnikbasu95! how's going?
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| 09:32 | sagnikbasu95 | Everythings fine.For the sobel fpga project, I am thinking that there will be four module- a control module (which will be like a master and will monitor the communications from cmos sensor to FPGA) ; the kernel module( which will generate a N*N kernel);a line buffer module and a address control module( to ensure that correct pixels are stored in the correct address after convolution)
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| 09:36 | Bertl | the breakdown sounds reasonable, but drop the idea of sensor communication, make the first one an 'input' interface which can handle a stream of parallellized 'words' and similar for the 'address control' make that an output module which does the inverse of the input module
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| 09:37 | sagnikbasu95 | like a serial-deserializer ?
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| 09:37 | Bertl | kind of, we have a massive amount of data coming from 'somewhere' and we will produce the same amount of data on the output of the filter
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| 09:38 | Bertl | just to give you an impression, let's do a simple calculation
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| 09:39 | Bertl | let's assume, we have the CMV12000 connected with 'only' 32 LVDS channels (it has a max of 64) and we are using 'only' 300MHz (it can do 600MHz clock)
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| 09:39 | sagnikbasu95 | ok..
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| 09:39 | Bertl | that will produce 9.6 gigabit of data per second
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| 09:40 | Bertl | assuming that we have 12bit per sensel, this still gives an impressive 800Mhz for each input word
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| 09:41 | Bertl | now we know that the sensor can do four times as much, so getting those sensel/words one by one is not really an option here
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| 09:41 | sagnikbasu95 | yes...and we must accordingly do the convolution to achieve the maximum expected latency
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| 09:42 | Bertl | so, there are two approaches now, depending on what we want to achieve with the filter
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| 09:42 | Bertl | one is to decimate the data in some meaningfull way, which really depends on the application
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| 09:43 | Bertl | for example, if we want to use it for autofocus, we don't need to store all that data which is generated
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| 09:43 | Bertl | and we do not even need to apply the filter on all input words either
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| 09:44 | Bertl | if we want to use it for peaking (camera focus aid), we need to process a subsection or a scaled down version of the input data and store/present the entire result on some output
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| 09:44 | sagnikbasu95 | can we apply encoding to the data so that we know where the maximum gradient in intensity is present...so that we can apply the filter only at those addresses
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| 09:45 | Bertl | that can happen in the output pipeline for example
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| 09:45 | Bertl | if we want to do some kind of image analysis with the help of such a filter, we need to apply it to the input image (which in this case can be heavily decimated) and store the result in memory for further processing
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| 09:47 | Bertl | well, finding the maximum gradient is basically applying the filter, so unless you come up with a great idea, that won't reduce the workload :)
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| 09:50 | alexML | when decimating the image, it may be useful to do a box blur (that is, to average a NxN block, rather than taking one pixel from it)
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| 09:50 | Bertl | note that this also is a NxN kernel filter
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| 09:50 | alexML | this improves SNR, and it should be doable with reading each pixel from the input image once (and writing a smaller version of the data for future use, e.g. at next frame)
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| 09:51 | alexML | yes, but you only have to compute it once for a NxN block, not for every pixel
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| 09:51 | alexML | so the complexity would be O(n) where n is the number of source pixels
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| 09:51 | Bertl | correct, so that might be a valuable addition/option to the filter
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| 09:51 | alexML | definitely
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| 09:52 | Bertl | i.e. allow the 'input' module to decimate the data
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| 09:52 | sagnikbasu95 | yes..it sounds good
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| 09:52 | alexML | for peaking on Canons, we use a 720x480 image, not the full resolution
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| 09:52 | Bertl | not sure how well that plays with pipelining though, but should probably be doable
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| 09:53 | Bertl | as I already mentioned, optimization and customization of the filter is key, i.e. synthesis should be able to optimize out everything which is not required in a particular setup
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| 09:53 | Bertl | (IMHO that will be the main challenge)
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| 09:57 | sagnikbasu95 | I agree..for the N*N kernel ... i am thinking that it should store decreasing values of power of two as we move from the centre co-ordinates...with the exception that the centre row/coloumn is zero(as in case of a actual sobel kernel)
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| 09:58 | sagnikbasu95 | also whether it will be zero row or coloumn will depend on the horizontal or vertical axis of the sobel gradient
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| 09:59 | Bertl | decomposing the matrix is definitely a valuable approach
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| 10:46 | Bertl | off for now ... bbl
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| 13:12 | RexO | And are we gonna forward this TT to early adopters and backers today or tomorrow as we agreed?
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| 13:23 | se6astian | sure, why not
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| 14:42 | Tanos | Hello everyone!
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| 14:43 | Tanos | @se6astian can I ask you about T720?
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| 14:48 | BAndiT1983|away | changed nick to: BAndiT1983
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| 14:54 | Bertl_oO | Hey Tanos! Don't ask if you can ask, just ask away ... :)
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| 14:54 | Bertl_oO | prepend the nick and he will answer as soon as he reads it
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| 15:00 | Tanos | Ok thank you Bertl!
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| 15:00 | Tanos | @se6astian: My question is if there are any difficulties that I am missing,(something that I don’t see) at implementing T720: The user creates the calibration files and it’s a matter of where to save them. So given the calibration files, at the time of creation, the proposed file structure will be created. If you want to explicitly calibrate the sensor for a set of settings then a new file will be created in a branch of the orig
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| 15:00 | Tanos | That calibration file is optimized for the shooting conditions. The way I see it is a C script.
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| 15:01 | Tanos | (I am working on creating the weekly schedule and I need some to see some sub-targets)
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| 15:02 | Tanos | *(I am working on creating the weekly schedule and I need some sub-targets)
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| 15:32 | se6astian | Tanos, correct - its not a very tricky task
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| 15:32 | se6astian | we just need to find a system that keeps everything well organized
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| 15:32 | se6astian | like when changing camera parameters we also have to load different calibration files
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| 15:32 | se6astian | if different calibrations are required for this parameter change
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| 17:13 | Roopal08 | Hey <BAndiT1983> , I had few doubts , let me know when u r free to answer them
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| 17:40 | anuditverma | Hi BAandiT1983, I am just checking in to know the status of control daemon though I am following the repo, please reply soon, I will see the logs, thanks in advance.
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| 19:35 | BAndiT1983 | Roopal08, which doubts? you don't give any information on that and i cannot guess what's the problem as i've never finished my fortuneteller study
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| 19:37 | BAndiT1983 | anuditverma, my regular work is requiring more time at the moment as the project there is very important, still trying to get basic communication running (it's partially done, but needs cleanup and testing), but i need some time to structure my thoughts to do it
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| 19:41 | Roopal08 | Hey BAndiT1983, you asked me to take a dng file and get it on display . You said , its already implemented on OCBackup and OCCore
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| 19:42 | BAndiT1983 | yes, it's implemented
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| 19:42 | Roopal08 | But I couldn't find it on OCBackup , it still shows unable to load image .
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| 19:43 | Roopal08 | basically unable to load media .
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| 19:43 | BAndiT1983 | you should do it in processingtest for now, i deactivated it temporarily for QtAV/FFMPEG test as i have to implement a little bit smarter recognition of the file to use the right loader, not a big thing, but my time is a little bit sparse at the moment
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| 19:44 | BAndiT1983 | ThumbnailProvider is the calss which does it for OCBackup currently
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| 19:45 | Roopal08 | okay .
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| 21:56 | onenot8 | hi everyone
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| 21:56 | Bertl | hey onenot8!
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| 21:57 | se6astian | off to bed
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| 21:57 | se6astian | good night
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| 21:58 | onenot8 | i am already in contact with one of the member of the org. via email
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| 21:58 | Bertl | excellent!
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| 21:58 | onenot8 | i am interested in designing the arch. of FPGA based sobel filter project
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| 21:59 | onenot8 | interested in taking part in gsoc
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| 21:59 | Bertl | yep, you're not the only one ... there has been quite some interest in this task and the PWM fan controller
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| 22:00 | onenot8 | i am already working on the proposal, can someone please guide me more on the insights of the project
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| 22:00 | onenot8 | great
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| 22:00 | Bertl | what do you want to know?
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| 22:01 | tittynale | hey!!
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| 22:01 | Bertl | hey tittynale!
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| 22:02 | onenot8 | i have gone through the reference paper given for the design
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| 22:02 | onenot8 | want to know more about the proposal design/outline
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| 22:03 | Bertl | more than is documented in the lab task?
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| 22:04 | onenot8 | lab task ?? don't know anything about it
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| 22:04 | Bertl | https://lab.apertus.org/T733
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| 22:05 | onenot8 | oh i have gone through that
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| 22:05 | onenot8 | obviously
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| 22:06 | Bertl | from our side, there is no specific form for the proposal, what we want to know is how you plan to address the task, what 'milestones' you expect to happen when and what problems you expect and what ideas you have
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| 22:06 | onenot8 | ok , great
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| 22:06 | Bertl | google itself has some template proposals IIRC, so checking those is probably a good idea
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| 22:07 | Bertl | we also happily check your proposal and provide comments on the task and point out flaws, problems or misconceptions as we see them
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| 22:07 | onenot8 | so can i submit more than once
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| 22:08 | onenot8 | ??
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| 22:08 | Bertl | IIRC (but don't quote me on that, double check with GSoC) only the last submission counts
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| 22:08 | Bertl | but you do not have to submit anything for us to check it
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| 22:09 | onenot8 | i don't have a new idea
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| 22:09 | Bertl | i.e. just generate a PDF or ASCII text and paste the url here and we will read it and provide feedback
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| 22:10 | onenot8 | just trying to build a prototype or implement the given paper and then go for further improvements
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| 22:10 | Bertl | the paper is just for reference
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| 22:11 | onenot8 | ok yes ,I'll surely get back to you after generating a minor report or similar
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| 22:11 | Bertl | the main point is to keep it as flexible as possible, while optimizing the hell out of it for special cases
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| 22:11 | Bertl | depending on where in the pipeline the filter will be used, the amount of processed data can be huge
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| 22:13 | onenot8 | pipelining would only be possible in memory buffer
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| 22:14 | onenot8 | convolution would be a minor combinational circuit
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| 22:15 | onenot8 | I am trying to think of some optimization technique in that circuit ,
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| 22:15 | onenot8 | that's exactly where I need help
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| 22:16 | Bertl | we already had some ideas here on the channel (you might read up on the IRC logs)
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| 22:17 | onenot8 | thank you Bertl
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| 22:17 | Bertl | like decomposing the matrix into smaller pieces or optimizing away certain operations for a given matrix
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| 22:18 | Bertl | of course, parallelization is also a way to speed up things as is decimation of the input data
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| 22:18 | Bertl | we will probably reformulate the task description a little (or at least extend it) to contain all the input and ideas we got so far
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| 22:18 | onenot8 | input data could be floating point ? right ?
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| 22:19 | Bertl | probably could be, but I guess that should be better avoided for performance reasons
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| 22:19 | Bertl | (performance and resource reasons actually)
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| 22:22 | onenot8 | Yes , I am thinking of actually start coding the conventional architecture so that in between we can somehow check the performance and get the estimate of the resources used
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| 22:23 | Bertl | good idea, also some kind of testbench will probably become very useful sooner or later
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| 22:26 | onenot8 | exactly and one more thing , how many sobel filters should we use , in one reference, data is convoluted with two kernels 0 and 90 degree , while in other ,I found 8 gradients calculated
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| 22:27 | Bertl | that is a good question and it probably depends very much on the application
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| 22:28 | Bertl | for edge detection (as in image recognition) separate gradients are very useful, for focus peeking OTOH, it doesn't really matter as long as you see if it is sharp or not
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| 22:29 | onenot8 | ok, so maybe use build an architecture which can support both the strategies
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| 22:30 | Bertl | definitely wouldn't hurt, but maybe it is better/simpler to create variants or maybe the required resources are prohibitive and certain setups do not make any sense after all
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| 22:30 | Bertl | that is something we have to figure out during the task
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| 22:31 | onenot8 | ok
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| 22:31 | Bertl | (but it is good to mention this and what options there are)
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| 22:35 | Bertl | I'm off for a nap now ... if you have more questions, or something to check, just leave a message here, alexML or I will answer/check when we get back ...
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| 22:35 | Bertl | have a good one everyone!
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| 22:35 | onenot8 | bye bye
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