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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2021/11/23

Timezone: UTC


07:45
se6astian
good day
07:45
se6astian
vup/anuejn cool idea
07:45
se6astian
lets give it a try
08:48
se6astian
how/where can the bridge be installed?
12:50
se6astian
openmoko replied pretty fat
12:50
se6astian
*fast
12:50
se6astian
impressive work.
12:50
se6astian
hardware: copyright author, license, and date are present in the schematic sheet (well done). small remark: the files seem to have last been modified in 2021, but some copyright dates are from 2014-2015, while other are from 2020. Since the dates across the pages are different I suppose they are correct.
12:50
se6astian
software: the main axiom firmware repo source files have copyright author, license, and date.
12:50
se6astian
there a just a few details that need to be fixed before I can grant the IEEE ID:
12:50
se6astian
hardware: could you export the schematic (as pdf) and board (as gerber/excellon) so people without Eagle CAD can also see it (see hardware point 6 in our README)? these exported fabrication files don't have to be in the source repository. I found some schematic export in the wiki (https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Resources), but not for all schematic, and not the gerbers.
12:50
se6astian
software: some of the main repo submodule source files don't have copyright author, license, and date (for example, but not only nctrl). The LICENSE file is there, but this is not sufficient. Could you add this information? (see software point 4 in our README)
12:55
Spirit532
left the channel
12:55
Spirit532
joined the channel
12:55
vup
se6astian: I think matterbridge is supposed to be decent
12:56
vup
well adding a license header to ever source file will take a moment
12:56
se6astian
yeah...
13:41
se6astian
could we automate it
13:41
se6astian
at least to indentify the files
13:41
se6astian
we need to adapt
13:43
vup
yeah
13:44
vup
I am already working through some parts
13:44
vup
Bertl_oO: under what license do you want to put the binary files currently present in axiom-firmware (the machxo2 and zynq bitstreams for example)
14:09
Bertl_oO
hmm, good question, no idea?
14:09
Bertl_oO
I'm not even sure what our options are there ...
14:32
vup
I think some form of creative commons might be suitable?
14:50
Bertl_oO
probably
17:39
davidak[m]
hello! do you know anything about using fuji x mount lenses on the axiom beta? i did some research and it does not look good. you can't even manual focus without communicating with the camera
17:39
davidak[m]
should i add my research results to the wiki?
17:46
davidak[m]
Discord is terrible btw. use matrix instead. i'm here using matrix
18:16
se6astian
ah, thanks for the discord input
18:16
se6astian
I have no experience with fuji lenses but let me look into the FFD, etc.
18:17
se6astian
FFD fuji xmount is 17.7 mm
18:17
se6astian
vs emount 18mm
18:17
se6astian
that indeed makes it impossible
18:17
se6astian
at least with the current lens mount
18:18
se6astian
would be "easy" to build a shorter fuji x mount if we find a lens bayonet ring
18:18
se6astian
that of course only solves the mechanical side
18:18
se6astian
lens communication is a whole other topic
18:35
davidak[m]
where did you get the e-mount bayonet ring? maybe they also have x mount
18:37
davidak[m]
fuji said they open the protocol for lens manufacturers with NDA in 2020. that probably does not help us
18:38
davidak[m]
there is a forum post from 2017 where someone claims they might be able to reverse engineer it, but there is no update on that. someone could ask them https://www.fujix-forum.com/threads/af-adapter-for-fuji.67029/
18:38
vup
Bertl_oO: so what do you think about CC-BY-SA-4.0 for the bitstreams?
18:39
davidak[m]
at least the lens manufacturer Viltrox has reverse engineered the protocol. maybe the would sell the knowledge
18:40
davidak[m]
this is also probably reverse engineered https://www.fringeradapter.com/nikon-f-to-fujifilm-x
18:41
se6astian
we got the bayonet from a macro extension tube
18:41
vup
I mean actually reverse engineering the protocol is probably not that hard given a setup where one can capture traces during camera operation
18:42
vup
(unless they do some kind of authentication or encryption, but that seems unlikely?)
18:42
davidak[m]
there seem to be some people that are able to do it... we could pay them. any idea what that might cost?
18:42
vup
I don't think paying someone to do that is worth it
18:42
vup
we can probably do it ourselves
18:43
davidak[m]
so can i pay you (the team) to get it done?
18:43
se6astian
we also planed to do it for canon but so far noone did it :)
18:44
davidak[m]
otherwise i would not be able to use the nice lenses i bought on the axiom
18:44
se6astian
but yes, I think the challenge is actually too trivial for most people who like technical challenges :)
18:44
vup
do they not have manual focus?
18:44
vup
:P
18:44
davidak[m]
that sounds good :D
18:45
davidak[m]
they are focused "by-wire", even when using the manual focus
18:46
vup
interesting
18:46
davidak[m]
most small mirrorless lenses seem to work this way. also e-mau
18:47
davidak[m]
nt
18:53
vup
hmm well I assume you have a x-mount compatible camera? can you take some high res pictures of the electrical connections on the camera and the lens side?
18:57
vup
Bertl_oO: also do you have the cam job files for eagle for the various boards somewhere?
18:57
se6astian
I can offer to take care of the mechanical side if we find someone to deal with hardware and software
18:59
davidak[m]
<se6astian> "we got the bayonet from a..." <- so something like this https://www.ebay.de/itm/293281342455?hash=item4448ee23f7:g:Hv4AAOSwaOFdptoJ (quiet expensive)
19:00
vup
oh such extension tube set looks perfect to intercept the signals to the lens while its connected to the camera
19:00
vup
(without soldering to the camera
19:00
vup
)
19:01
vup
davidak[m]: if you can find a passive extension tube they tend to be a lot cheaper
19:02
davidak[m]
yes, under 10 euro from china. would that be enough?
19:05
vup
well with a passive one the electrical connection is probably inaccessible, but maybe it can be modified to access them (drilling some holes or so)
19:05
davidak[m]
it would be perfect if fuji would sell replacement parts for the camera bayonet. we could als as a company... but they probably don't
19:05
vup
not sure what se6astian is envisioning for the electrical connections
19:08
se6astian
yes such extension tube should work
19:09
davidak[m]
https://www.ebay.de/itm/402288360489?hash=item5daa413c29:g:v-QAAOSwpDdVQc-C 2x active mount for less than 25 euro, from china
19:09
davidak[m]
https://www.ebay.de/itm/331609584289?hash=item4d3578b2a1:g:EDQAAMXQ0pNRuXUo 3x passive mount for less than 10 euro, from china
19:09
Bertl_oO
vup: CC-BY-SA-4.0 is fine for me
19:10
vup
great
19:10
Bertl_oO
vup: se6astian was doing the recent Eagle CAM stuff
19:10
Bertl_oO
(used for the panels)
19:10
vup
I see
19:11
se6astian
https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/pcb-paneliser/tree/master/input/base_variant
19:11
se6astian
that are the gerbers created for panelization
19:12
vup
I think we should maybe start collecting all schematics, boards, gerbers in a central location, currently there are a multitude of locations for them
19:12
vup
(bertls file server, files.apertus.org, github)
19:12
davidak[m]
se6astian: should i extend https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Lens_Mounts with information and pictures of mount?
19:12
vup
(multiple repos on github)
19:12
se6astian
that would be great davidak[m]!
19:12
davidak[m]
will do the next days
19:13
se6astian
thanks
19:14
se6astian
sniffing protocol is probably the first step before creating any own hardware or mechanical parts
19:14
se6astian
that should be possible with a fuji camera, fuji lens and such an active macro extension tube
19:14
se6astian
the lines should be easy to intercept in there
19:15
se6astian
next step once the protocol is known would probably be some kind of hardware proof of concept with a microcontroller that drives the pins?
19:16
se6astian
then next step custom hardware and mechanical parts
19:16
vup
se6astian: well accessing the pins is not 'trivial' as you probably need to position pogo pins agains them somehow
19:17
vup
(atleast without just soldering to the pads)
19:17
vup
but yeah
19:17
se6astian
https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Commlite_e-mount_teardown
19:18
se6astian
in the emount adapter there was a small PCB with springs and pogopins indeed
19:18
se6astian
https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Lens_Mounts
19:18
se6astian
but soldering cables to the pads should be possible somehow I assume
19:19
vup
sure that works for reverse engineering, but not really nice for a final setup
19:19
se6astian
true
19:20
se6astian
but a very simple custom pcb could solve that
19:20
se6astian
using the original pogo pins from the macro extension tube
19:24
davidak[m]
i thought, when we can control the focus from software, a follow focus system would be easy. we don't have to attach any motors to the lens...
19:25
se6astian
if its possible to drive the internal focus that precisely yes
19:28
davidak[m]
slightly different topic: i found out about lidar autofocus https://chaos.social/@davidak/107271759408109604
19:28
davidak[m]
check out the second video link
19:28
davidak[m]
could we use that for our autofocus?
19:28
davidak[m]
the hardware could be not that expensive
19:28
davidak[m]
but it seem not to work at long range
19:29
se6astian
lidar would be interesting not just for distance measuring but also 3d depth mapping of the footage you are shooting
19:29
se6astian
but I have not see any off the shelf lidar modules that we could easily integrate
19:30
davidak[m]
should i create an issue to collect research?
19:30
se6astian
I mean a "single pixel" aka distance meter would be another thing of course
19:30
se6astian
there is https://www.sparkfun.com/products/16977
19:32
se6astian
collective research sounds good
19:33
davidak[m]
that does not look much different from the DJI module from the outside
19:34
se6astian
I am afraid the internals are completely different
19:34
davidak[m]
very interesting possibilities we have when a system is open
19:36
se6astian
true but as I said I have not seen such system yet
19:36
se6astian
would be cool if one existed
19:38
Bertl_oO
LIDAR usually uses a rotating sensor, so even with 'one pixel' you get an almost 360 circle
19:40
se6astian
there is http://www.xaxxon.com/xaxxon/openlidar
19:43
Bertl_oO
not sure you want something rotating on your camera though :)
19:43
se6astian
yes, its not for us
19:44
se6astian
circle also does not help us much
19:44
se6astian
we need an actual 3d map
19:45
Bertl_oO
note that LIDAR basically uses ToF nowadays
19:46
se6astian
interesting
19:46
davidak[m]
FYI: i ordered the Auto Focus Macro Extension Tubes
19:49
se6astian
great
19:50
vup
Bertl_oO: wait how does LIDAR without ToF work?
19:51
davidak[m]
i can send them to you including with a camera and lens when you have time for the reverse engineering
19:52
davidak[m]
it's not time critical since it seem to take more time until i get my axiom beta (waiting for Power Board V2 and full enclosure)
19:53
se6astian
noted!
19:53
davidak[m]
currently i'm very happy with the fuji e-x3 camera :)
19:57
se6astian
nice
20:43
Bertl_oO
vup: as far as I know, early LIDAR used focal distance measurements
20:46
Bertl_oO
but what I actually meant is that ToF sensors are used nowadays instead of stand alone solutions
21:16
vup
interesting
21:24
vup
Bertl_oO: all scripts at https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/axiom-firmware/tree/main/software/scripts by you are gpl3.0-or-later, right?
21:25
Bertl_oO
by default they are gpl2, but I'm fine with gpl3+
21:25
vup
I don't care either way
21:26
Bertl_oO
then gpl2 it is :)
21:26
vup
ok
21:48
vup
Bertl_oO: are there any files under /root on fw 1.x you don't have the copyright to? (for example currently on BETA/HDMIRAW/sd.dd.xz)
21:51
Bertl_oO
good question, but probably no
21:53
vup
ok, ill use the file creation date for the copyright year, is that fine by you?
22:07
Bertl_oO
perfect