| 00:36 | troy_s | Bertl: The bayer is GRBG yes?
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| 00:38 | Bertl | RGGB unflipped and GBRG when flipped
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| 00:38 | Bertl | (flipped is the default, because it gives the expected image)
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| 00:44 | troy_s | Bertl: Is it a vertical and horizontal flip?
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| 00:45 | Bertl | no, just vertical, the horizontal flip won't work with 'only' 32 LVDS channels
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| 00:57 | Bertl | troy_s: still working on the debayering?
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| 00:57 | troy_s | Bertl: Well it's tedious. I don't want to merely copy paste code, so yes... I'm currently trying to understand VNG.
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| 00:59 | troy_s | Bertl: Which isn't so bad, but just slow as glue. And my brain was getting deadly tired with solving Qt nuances.
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| 00:59 | troy_s | (Hello QGraphicsView, I'm looking at you.)
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| 00:59 | Bertl | hehe
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| 00:59 | troy_s | Bertl: Not funny! It really is brain exhausting.
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| 00:59 | Bertl | that's why I usually avoid GUIs nowadays
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| 00:59 | troy_s | Bertl: Further, the code obfuscation of VNG explanations is nightmarish.
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| 00:59 | troy_s | Bertl: Well... GUIs are kind of mandatory for imaging apps. Just sayin'.
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| 01:00 | troy_s | so :P
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| 01:00 | Bertl | it might be simpler and maybe faster to write it from scratch
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| 01:00 | troy_s | Also sort of having new things pop into head as to how to negotiate the various buffers.
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| 01:00 | troy_s | Not exactly super simple... tradeoffs.
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| 01:00 | troy_s | We have the base 16 bit integer raw, that needs to become a float (OIIO does the lifting here well) and also needs to be a basic 8 bit image for dumping to display.
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| 01:00 | troy_s | (Plus a float buffer for each interpolation attempt.)
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| 01:01 | Bertl | well, 16bit int to float is 'divide by 65535 or 65536 depending on your interpretation of white
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| 01:03 | Bertl | but as we actually do 12bit, padded to 16bit
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| 01:03 | troy_s | Not quite that simple to be honest.
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| 01:03 | Bertl | it would be better to use 65520
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| 01:03 | troy_s | There's all sorts of little quantization nuances that suck.
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| 01:03 | troy_s | So I leave that up to OIIO.
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| 01:03 | troy_s | (There was a great HN article on quantization nuances last year)
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| 01:03 | Bertl | quantiziation when converting to float?
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| 01:04 | troy_s | Minor gotchas
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| 01:04 | troy_s | Yes.
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| 01:04 | troy_s | Anyways, that's not much of an isuse
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| 01:04 | troy_s | My MATLAB comprehension IS however.
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| 01:04 | troy_s | (And that's where so many imaging algos live it drives me to distraction)
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| 01:14 | troy_s | BRAIN. HURTS.
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| 01:15 | Bertl | take a short break, do some juggling
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| 01:15 | Bertl | keeps the mind active but off the issue on hand :)
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| 10:00 | se6astian | good morning!
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| 10:01 | Bertl | morning se6astian!
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| 10:47 | Topic | apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | Currently Hot: Axiom Alpha Development http://axiom.apertus.org/ | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
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| 10:47 | se6astian | has set the topic |
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| 11:18 | philippej | Hi everyone !
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| 11:19 | Bertl | hey philippej!
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| 11:19 | philippej | How goes ?
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| 11:19 | Bertl | fine, thanks! you?
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| 11:19 | philippej | Feedback from Berlin ? I already got one fro Sebastian
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| 11:20 | philippej | Fine as well, multitasking on projects right now, which most of the time is a good feeling. Our brain probably like it :-)
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| 11:22 | Bertl | the photonik kongress was quite nice, but demanding without any chance to sit for 13 hours :)
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| 11:23 | philippej | You must have enjoyed it :-)
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| 11:25 | philippej | Sebastian told me that you already implemented matrix conversion, lut and gamma !
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| 11:26 | Bertl | yes, but that was last week basically
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| 11:26 | Bertl | i.e. we have everything ready we planned for axiom alpha and a little more
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| 11:26 | philippej | Just for my curiosity, could you tell me how you implemented fpn correction, and if memory bandwidth is an issue for this step?
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| 11:28 | Bertl | sure, memory bandwidth is not an issue for FPN correction in the current setup
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| 11:28 | Bertl | we have two layers, the first one does row/column noise correction
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| 11:29 | Bertl | this is done via four lookup tables of 2048 elements each
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| 11:29 | Bertl | two for the 4096 columns and two for the 3072 rows (plus some extra)
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| 11:29 | Bertl | they currently hold 9bit signed values to offset each row/column
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| 11:30 | Bertl | for the gain dependent fixed pattern noise, we use the unused space in memory when fetching the captured image data (for hdmi output)
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| 11:31 | philippej | so if i understand well the fpn is always on a row or a column, I thought it was per individual pixel dependant
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| 11:31 | Bertl | the row/col corrections (which are the majority) aren't but the gain based corrections are per pixel
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| 11:32 | philippej | so you have enough memory left to store a whole image's list of pixels for correction, right?
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| 11:32 | Bertl | there is no reason to expect an 'offset' per pixel, as the cmos sensor design shouldn't expose such kind of noise
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| 11:32 | philippej | ok
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| 11:32 | Bertl | we have enough memory for up to 8 frames
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| 11:33 | philippej | great!
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| 11:33 | philippej | dead pixel removal can also be done?
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| 11:33 | Bertl | in theory yes, but we haven't addressed this yet
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| 11:34 | philippej | incredible progresses as always, congrats :-)
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| 11:35 | philippej | I try to keep up to date on just what is achieved without inner knowledge, it might prove useful later, with such a fast progress even this is sometimes hard to keep up to date
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| 11:35 | Bertl | thanks
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| 11:37 | philippej | lunch time, see you later
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| 12:07 | danhanes | bertl: Contrats on the amazing progress & the show. Still climbing the VHDL curve here.
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| 12:07 | danhanes | a questions: can I buy a "test" sensor from CMOSIS from you ?
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| 12:09 | Bertl | you mean you would like to buy the engineering sample from us?
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| 12:10 | danhanes | I would like to get an engineering sample, I don't know if it would be better to go through you
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| 12:10 | danhanes | or to go directly to CMOSIS.
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| 12:10 | danhanes | I sense that they are a little difficult to deal with
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| 12:11 | se6astian | not at all, I would recommend to just order it from them directly
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| 12:11 | Bertl | it might still be an option for us to check out the new V2 (as engineering sample)
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| 12:12 | danhanes | I am just looking for something functional so that I can plug it in to a Zed and learn something
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| 12:12 | danhanes | image quality is not an issue
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| 12:12 | danhanes | What does a "defective" sensor cost ?
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| 12:13 | Bertl | the engineering samples are half the price IIRC
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| 12:13 | danhanes | Ah - still not cheap
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| 12:14 | Bertl | yes, I don't know what defects they usually have, the one we got we already know
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| 12:14 | Bertl | i.e. one column is 'stuck' and there are two vertical lines with dots
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| 12:15 | Bertl | http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/RAW/colors_400ms.png
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| 12:16 | Bertl | actually four vertical lines and some kind of bleeding (now that I look at it :)
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| 12:17 | danhanes | yes, I see. That would be fine for my purposes; I just need some HW to play with.
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| 12:17 | danhanes | Reading through VHDL puts me to sleep ( even yours, Bertl..)
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| 12:17 | Bertl | let's see what se6astian says, I'm not going to interfere there ... it might also take some time till we get a replacement
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| 12:18 | danhanes | I'm saving my pennies for a Zedboard, connectors, etc., it'll be a few months.
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| 12:19 | Bertl | I see, so you're going to build the frontend adapter yourself, I take it?
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| 12:19 | danhanes | yes, thats the plan. Better idea ?
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| 12:20 | danieel | Bertl: sensor errors should be evaluated on a non-debayered picture
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| 12:20 | Bertl | the raws are at the same location, I just took that one because it was faster to view
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| 12:20 | danieel | .raw or .xz?
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| 12:21 | Bertl | .raw16.xz is the best option for reviewing
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| 12:26 | Bertl | danhanes: we already had a number of requests for a zedboard setup, i.e. for a frontend adapter plus sensor, so we are investigating our options here
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| 12:27 | Bertl | might be that we come up with a cheap solution to get a prototype to work with .. we'll see
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| 12:27 | danhanes | great - I think it would be very helpful if you could "package" the bits needed to get up an running
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| 12:27 | Bertl | in any case you might want to contact us shortly before ordering anything in this regard and ask for the status
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| 12:28 | danhanes | for those of us who want to get the hw up and running so that we can contribute
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| 12:28 | Bertl | there is a lot of potential contributions which do not require any part of the hardware, although I can imagine that it is more fun with the hardware :)
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| 12:29 | danhanes | Yes, plenty of SW - but it seems plenty of SW developers. The PL is more challenging
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| 12:30 | Bertl | for example a lot of VHDL code evaluation and code optimization can be done without ever touching the hardware
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| 12:30 | danhanes | yes, in theory. It is much more satisfying to see LEDs blink
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| 12:30 | Bertl | as I said, necessary: no, more fun: definitely :)
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| 12:33 | danhanes | I have found it a little difficult to stitch together all of the VHDL / Zedboard / sensor signals
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| 12:33 | danhanes | in my mind in a coherent whole.
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| 12:34 | danhanes | Being able to get a prototype running and then break it would be easier
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| 12:34 | danhanes | Hats off to your pioneering efforts.
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| 12:35 | Bertl | just to get an idea, what would you be willing to pay for a prototype setup, i.e. something you can plug in and get an image?
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| 12:35 | danhanes | Yes, of course - the real question is how much I can afford.
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| 12:37 | danhanes | I would guess that there would be enough of "us" to perhaps help fund a few extra bits for general Apertus development
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| 12:37 | danhanes | *axiom
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| 12:37 | philippej | I guess it would depend on the intended use, if it's hobby or if it's partly backed by paid jobs ?
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| 12:38 | danhanes | for me it is really a more of a hobby - my interest is in the axiom as a platform to put to fairly non-standard purposes
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| 12:38 | danhanes | i.e., a deep ocean camera
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| 12:39 | danhanes | I have a friend who does deep ocean biology and for whom I have built some equipment.
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| 12:40 | danhanes | The deep ocean communities imaging capability is very poor
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| 12:41 | Bertl | just give us a rough number what you personally would be willing and able to afford, so we can see if we find a matching solution
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| 12:41 | danhanes | < 1000 USD would be good. Perhaps 1200 USD. In that ballpark.
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| 12:42 | Bertl | okay, noted, thanks
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| 13:04 | philippej | would this be a sensor frontend + sensor?
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| 13:04 | philippej | without zedboard I guess
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| 13:09 | Bertl | I was talking about a complete solution, so that would include the development board
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| 13:25 | danhanes | I was thinking of board + front end (incl eng sensor) when I threw out the $1000 - 1200 USD
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| 13:30 | danhanes | it might be worth considering a similar Apertus-designed development board (i.e., not final form factor) with the "final" target HW
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| 13:32 | Bertl | understood
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| 15:17 | Bertl | danieel: could you remind me, what was the calibration chart you are using, where did you buy? it and what was the cost?
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| 18:44 | Bertl | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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| 20:07 | troy_s | ugh
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| 20:07 | troy_s | Bertl: You opened up a hornet's nest.
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| 20:27 | se6astian | you mean the feature wishlist email?
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| 20:49 | se6astian | any luck with the daylight chart yet?
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| 21:44 | troy_s | se6astian: Yep. I am completely adamant against design-by-voting (random garbage in is random garbage out)
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| 21:44 | troy_s | se6astian: I have been a twinge busy sadly. I promise I will get it tested today.
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| 21:44 | troy_s | se6astian: Have a meeting today, and I'll tackle it immediately after.
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| 21:44 | troy_s | se6astian: Were you able to do a few passes for exposure?
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| 21:45 | troy_s | Your cloud is slugging out.
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| 21:45 | troy_s | Can't wait to see if I can get a decent matrix out of it.
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| 21:46 | troy_s | (Ok... off for a few. The downloads are not happening for some reason. Slugging out or not replying or...)
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| 21:59 | se6astian | I only did a single exposure this time, but with live HDMI I got it pretty close to the useable range I hope
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| 21:59 | se6astian | time for bed
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| 21:59 | se6astian | hope the cloud will deliver soon
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| 21:59 | se6astian | good night
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