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09:20 | ApertusWeb7 | changed nick to: test1
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09:20 | test1 | changed nick to: test1212
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13:11 | Bertl | morning everyone!
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14:32 | dmj_nova | morning Bertl
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14:53 | Oscar_Apertus | joined the channel | |
14:53 | oscarspierenburg | joined the channel | |
15:20 | dmj_nova | how long til xilinx?
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15:21 | se6astian | joined the channel | |
15:22 | Bertl | approximately 38min
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15:22 | se6astian | hello!
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15:22 | se6astian | a good the countdown nas already started ;)
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15:25 | se6astian | whats the syntax to invite someone to the other channel when the nick is not registred
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15:25 | se6astian | or does it work at all
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15:30 | se6astian | I cant do it....
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15:33 | se6astian | hmm maybe now
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15:33 | se6astian | oscar, do you see the invitation?
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15:39 | oscarspierenburg | I'm using x-chat - where should I see the invitation?
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15:42 | Bertl | iirc, there is a status panel or window where this shows up, but just try to join the channel
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15:43 | Bertl | online help says, there is a 'use separate tab/window for server messages' in the window layout options
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15:44 | Bertl | if you have that on, it will show up in a separate tab/window, if not, it should show up on your current channel window
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15:46 | oscarspierenburg | still: Cannot join #apertus-int (Channel is invite only).
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15:47 | Bertl | try again
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15:59 | ApertusWeb8 | joined the channel | |
16:00 | ApertusWeb6 | joined the channel | |
16:00 | ApertusWeb6 | Hello
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16:00 | ApertusWeb6 | This is Aaron Behman from Xilinx
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16:00 | Bertl | whois aaron
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16:01 | Bertl | sorry
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16:01 | Bertl | try /nick aaron
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16:01 | Bertl | ah, probably won't work, try /nick aaron.behman
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16:01 | se6astian | Hi Aaron, great to have you here
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16:01 | ApertusWeb8 | changed nick to: Guerric
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16:01 | ApertusWeb6 | Thanks
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16:02 | ApertusWeb6 | Is there an audio channel or is this old-school IRC?
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16:02 | se6astian | by typing "/nick aaron.behman" you can change your name
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16:02 | se6astian | only old school :)
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16:02 | ApertusWeb6 | No worries :)
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16:02 | Bertl | nope, it's all text and emoticons :)
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16:02 | ApertusWeb6 | Barrie, are you there/
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16:02 | ApertusWeb6 | ?
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16:03 | se6astian | Barrie didn't join so far
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16:03 | ApertusWeb6 | Guess not. Anyway, Xilinx is interested in your project.
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16:03 | Guerric | changed nick to: GuerricMDD
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16:03 | Bertl | sounds good! may I ask why?
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16:03 | ApertusWeb6 | I am responsible for camera applications @ XLNX with primary focus on Broadcast and Consumer segments
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16:05 | se6astian | Just before we start, is it OK for you if we stay on this public channel (we also have a private one)?
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16:05 | oscarspierenburg | Hi, I'm Oscar Spierenburg, founder of Apertus.
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16:06 | oscarspierenburg | Located in Belgium, as well is Philippe Jadin who just joined us.
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16:07 | philippejadin | Hi everyone
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16:07 | se6astian | Hello!
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16:07 | ApertusWeb5 | Sebastian, you there?
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16:08 | se6astian | yes
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16:08 | GuerricMDD | Hello everybody
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16:08 | ApertusWeb5 | sorry, I disconnected and had to reconnect
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16:08 | ApertusWeb5 | Hello Guerric
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16:08 | Bertl | no problem
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16:08 | ApertusWeb5 | Barrie is joining now
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16:08 | se6astian | great
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16:08 | se6astian | does the webclient work well for you so far?
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16:09 | ApertusWeb5 | It does.
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16:09 | dmj_nova | Hello all
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16:09 | GuerricMDD | I Guerric Meurice de Dormale, I'm external FPGA advisor. Aaron, we met at NAB show this year (I'm working for IntoPIX). But I'm not here on behalf of intoPIX (it is after work involvment).
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16:09 | ApertusWeb5 | Okay, so back to the topic at hand. Could you guys give me an overview of your project and let me knoe where things are headed.
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16:10 | se6astian | sure, but shouldnt we wait for Barrie?
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16:10 | ApertusWeb5 | I see Guerric, very cool! Yes, I remember you.
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16:10 | ApertusWeb5 | Yes, he's joining me in the conf room now!
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16:10 | GuerricMDD | Great!
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16:10 | Bertl | ah, so you are here via one nick, one voice, that's fine too :)
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16:11 | Bertl | my name is Herbert Poetzl, btw
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16:11 | se6astian | ok perfect, before we get started let me introduce the entire team present today
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16:11 | se6astian | user: oscarspierenburg - Oscar Spierenburg (Belgium): CEO apertus° Company, apertus° association vice-chairman
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16:11 | se6astian | I am Sebastian Pichelhofer (Austria): Senior Product Manager, apertus° association chairman
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16:11 | se6astian | user: Bertl - Herbert Pötzl (Austria): Chief Technical Engineer
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16:12 | se6astian | not present at the moment: Konstantin Kim (Switzerland): Design Engineer
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16:12 | se6astian | user: dmj_nova - David Jordan (USA): Software Engineer
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16:12 | se6astian | user: philippejadin - Philippe Jadin (Belgium): Public Relations, apertus° association advisory board
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16:12 | se6astian | and Gueric - Guerric Meurice de Dormale (Belgium) - external FPGA advisor as he already said
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16:13 | Bertl | k, now we have two unanswered questions in the room:
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16:13 | ApertusWeb5 | Great. Here in San Jose at Xilinx is Aaron Behman, Sr. Manager Broadcast & Consumer (focused on camera apps) and Barrie Mullins, Dir. Zynq Business Development
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16:14 | Bertl | 1) why is xilinx interested in this project? and
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16:14 | Bertl | 2) what is this project about and where are we heading
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16:14 | Bertl | sebastian can probably answer the second one best
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16:15 | se6astian | yes, I should probably start with that
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16:15 | se6astian | I guess you have seen our Axiom website already: http://axiom.apertus.org/
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16:15 | ApertusWeb5 | Sounds like a good agenda. #1 Seems like an innovative use of Zynq, also I am focused on camera apps and can be a potential resource within Xilinx to put you in touch with technology that can enable your project (IP, partners, HW, etc.)
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16:16 | ApertusWeb5 | Yes, have seen the site. Very cool!
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16:16 | se6astian | Thanks :)
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16:16 | se6astian | so we are basically The First Ever
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16:16 | se6astian | Open Digital Cinema Camera
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16:16 | se6astian | that got a bit messed up...
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16:16 | se6astian | so we are basically building the first ever open source digital cinema camera
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16:17 | se6astian | FPGA based designs are a natural choice for this open source path
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16:17 | Bertl | sidenote: open source and open hardware that is
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16:17 | ApertusWeb5 | So why do you see Zynq as a good fit here?
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16:18 | Bertl | from the technical PoV, the zedboard was a good match for the prototype
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16:18 | Bertl | hdmi, gbit ethernet, FMC, lots of pmod headers
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16:18 | Bertl | and of course, open hardware, open software
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16:18 | ApertusWeb5 | I see, certainly 4k res is a good fit for FPGA when doing RT pixel processing
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16:19 | ApertusWeb5 | Are you leveraging other open HW IP or are you developing OPen HW that you'll release to the community?
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16:19 | se6astian | and the combination of FPGA and CPU means maximum flexibility for us apertus° Axiom is much more than just “a product”. It’s an open camera platform - ready to evolve into things we haven’t even dreamt of today. The open and extendable nature of the Zynq matches that perfectly
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16:20 | ApertusWeb5 | Yes, we would agree with you there :) We're seeing a lot of crowd source activity on the Si platform!
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16:20 | Bertl | the basic idea is to provide a stable platform for the community to work with, which is extensible and flexible and most importantly usable
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16:21 | GuerricMDD | For sure, if there are open HW IP out there that can fit a part of the job, we don't plan to re-invent the wheel
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16:21 | se6astian | So far the HW IP for the prototype has been custom designed and is being released to the community, but if we find open hardware IP for certain tasks (opencores) we will evalaute those as well
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16:21 | ApertusWeb5 | Yes agree!
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16:22 | Bertl | an important aspect for us is that somebody who wants to modify something (hardware or software) can do that easily, and trust me, there are many folks in the cinema/camera community tinkering with their toys :)
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16:23 | Bertl | which in turn requires us to use open or at least freely available tools/cores/etc
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16:23 | ApertusWeb5 | Yes, I'd imagine. So, today you are targetting a ZC7020 on the Zed board, that doesn't give you hi speed connectvity for SDI, HDMI, DP, etc. Are you planning to migrate up?
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16:23 | Bertl | (hence the limitation to the webpack FPGAs if we go that way)
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16:24 | ApertusWeb5 | I know.
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16:24 | se6astian | making movies is a creative industry so the more open your tools are the less limits you have to deal with in your work and the more potential you have to set yourself ahead of what everybody else is doing
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16:25 | GuerricMDD | About the planning about FPGA model migration, maybe Sebastian you can list later on the milestones of the project...
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16:25 | se6astian | btw we are also creating a movie about "open source being adopted in Hollywood" and already shoot some great interviews with very respected people in Hollywood
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16:25 | se6astian | https://www.apertus.org/hollywood
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16:25 | se6astian | gladly, our plans for the prototype and further on are the following:
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16:25 | se6astian | 1. Create a proof of concept prototype that uses the CMV12000 image sensor from CMOSIS, interfaces it with an FPGA and is able to capture single frames (full resolution) and motion video (25FPS at Full HD)
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16:26 | se6astian | 2. Evaluate the sensor and possible options with the prototype, shoot sample footage and prepare a “prototype demo reel”
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16:26 | ApertusWeb5 | Great, I'll check that out. You seem to be ahead of the pack in this movement. Are you seeing other similar projects or are you it?
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16:26 | se6astian | 3. finish the specifications and concept 3D model of what we want the full Axiom camera to look like - put everything into the Axiom minisite in a visually appealing and clearly structured way
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16:26 | se6astian | 4. Prepare a crowdfunding campaign with the prototype demo reel footage and the Axiom minisite detailing the plan - raise money to fund the actual development with a presale/donation campaign.
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16:27 | se6astian | In step 3 we will decide which components should eventually be used in the camera, Zynq or else
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16:27 | Bertl | so while the hardware configuration for the prototype is already fixed, the options for the final product are still open
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16:27 | ApertusWeb5 | What's your timeline to fundraising?
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16:27 | GuerricMDD | And zynq 030 would be a better fit than zynq020
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16:27 | dmj_nova | To my knowledge, Apertus is the only open hardware cinema camera project, though there are other open projects directed toward professional filmmaking that we have relations with.
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16:27 | se6astian | if we will go with the Zynq it will have to be a model with high speed serial interfaces so the Z7030 would match the requirements, higher end models are not available with a free/open license so they are no option for us
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16:28 | se6astian | The prototype should be ready in the coming months and crowdfunding will happen soon afterwards
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16:28 | ApertusWeb5 | Ok
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16:29 | se6astian | so thats the brief introduction from me, is everything clear so far?
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16:29 | ApertusWeb5 | At Xilinx we need to look at potential options to support you here with hi speed serial. No commitments, but something Barrie and I can investigate.
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16:29 | GuerricMDD | Sebastian, can you list the features of the project? We already discussed some but I see some other missing
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16:30 | ApertusWeb5 | Yes, quite clear.
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16:31 | se6astian | Ah yes, thanks guerric, beside the technical state of the art specs that you see on the axiom minisite we also connect a big part of the project to its philosophy and ecosystem
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16:31 | se6astian | Many people are currently afraid of buying a camera because of the speed at which new “products” are now being released, making a lot of devices very quickly outdated and obsolete. We want to stress that Axiom will not be outdated anytime soon - it will be constantly evolving - as we rely on FPGA based designs rather than fixed “set-in-stone systems”.
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16:31 | ApertusWeb5 | Good question Guerric. Is there a detailed list of development milestones, e.g. develop ISP, develop mem mgmt sub0system, develop open connectivity sub-system.
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16:32 | se6astian | We and the entire community will deliver new interfaces, codecs, firmware and significant degrees of newer functionalities with a simple software download to the camera. It is our intention to use this to create a very powerful ecosystem around Axiom, providing support alongside the development of new features.
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16:32 | se6astian | This community that will form itself will consist of hardware and software developers as well as directors of photography or rental house and repair service providers, etc.
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16:32 | se6astian | But Axiom will also create an open knowledge library: the result of everything we have learned on the path to creating it - freely open for everyone's disposal.
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16:32 | se6astian | Affordable price is what we hope for but not a requirement for the project - we stress that good build quality, durability, flexibility and the ability of the system to evolve over time outweighs the fact that we are not the absolute cheapest.
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16:33 | ApertusWeb5 | What OSes are you targeting?
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16:33 | se6astian | We have detailed development milestones for the prototype, but since we want to reevlatue all options with a working prototype before we commit to anything for the full camera we have detailed development milsetones for the full Axiom camera yet
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16:34 | ApertusWeb5 | ok
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16:34 | se6astian | *we have no detailed development milsetones for the full Axiom camera yet
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16:34 | Bertl | the camera itself will most likely run Linux as OS
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16:34 | Bertl | to allow for quick modifications, scripting and similar
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16:35 | ApertusWeb5 | I see. I have too many questions, are any of you planning to attend IBC? I will be there. I also will visit csutomers in Munich and Switzerland after the show. ANyone available to meet mid sep?
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16:36 | se6astian | We have no plans yet as we want to focus all our attention on getting the prototype finished but I am sure we can arrange something :)
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16:37 | ApertusWeb5 | Okay, Sebastian, I'll coordinate with you.
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16:37 | se6astian | great!
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16:37 | oscarspierenburg | Sounds good, keep me updated on that meeting.
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16:37 | se6astian | Are you interested in the prototype milestones? I dont want to spam the channel otherwise :)
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16:37 | GuerricMDD | I will be at IBC (for IntoPIX) but as I'm only partially involved in the project, I think I'm not the best person for all your questions. And I will be there with my IntoPIX hat...
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16:38 | ApertusWeb5 | One question. Would a FMC card supporting the CMOSIS sensor get any use on this project?
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16:38 | ApertusWeb5 | Guerric, you and I will certainly catch up over a coffee or a beer at IBC :-)
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16:38 | GuerricMDD | Sure :)
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16:38 | se6astian | Thats what we are developing right now yes
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16:38 | Bertl | ApertusWeb5: we already finished the layout for the prototype
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16:39 | ApertusWeb5 | You are, do you have specs on that? That could be a interesting revenue generator for your cause :-)
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16:39 | se6astian | first run PCB manufacturing will start shortly
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16:39 | GuerricMDD | Currently it is based on a LPC FMC (because of Zedboard)
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16:39 | Bertl | it will be quite simple (4 layer), cheap and of course, open hardware
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16:40 | ApertusWeb5 | Will that FMC be open source or will you sell the FMCs?
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16:40 | GuerricMDD | HPC FMC would be needed to reach full possible fps
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16:40 | jucar1 | left the channel | |
16:40 | ApertusWeb5 | What's the max res you can support on that design? 1080p60 or 2160
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16:40 | se6astian | it connects half of the 64 LVDS lanes from the CMV12000 to the Zedboard so while that means the maximum possible FPS is halfed it still means we will be able to go up to around 75 FPS at 4K
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16:40 | se6astian | 4096x3072
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16:41 | ApertusWeb5 | Okay, I'd like more info on that FMC. IS that public?
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16:41 | Bertl | yes, sec
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16:41 | philippejadin | theoretically I'd say, since the zedboard might be the bottleneck
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16:42 | ApertusWeb5 | Right, but not the OZ745 from OmniTek. Are you guys familiar with that board. Also there is a 7045 board from Avnet
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16:42 | Bertl | up to now. the 7045 is no option for us because of the license
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16:43 | Bertl | ApertusWeb5: can you open/view eagle files?
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16:43 | ApertusWeb5 | What's an eagle file?
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16:43 | GuerricMDD | For the development, such 045 board are not so cheap for our organisation
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16:44 | ApertusWeb5 | Right, I know. @ $5K USD it's not accessible to many individual users
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16:44 | GuerricMDD | Yep, Omnitek one is at least 5k$
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16:44 | se6astian | about the FMC board, we have no public website about it yet as we want to wait until its running before we promote it
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16:44 | Bertl | ApertusWeb5: an (now xml) based format for schematic and board layouts (like altium) for a pcb tool called eagle
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16:45 | ApertusWeb5 | There is an Avnet mini module (not yet out) with the 7045 that is ~ $1.3K, but that still doesn't address WebPack. Google: "Zynq Mini Module Plus"
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16:45 | ApertusWeb5 | Please fwd me the files for the FMC we can view it.
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16:46 | philippejadin | to add to what GuerricMDD said, the idea is to be able to spread the development effort and potentially provide sensor boards to interested developers
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16:46 | Bertl | ApertusWeb5: okay, will do
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16:47 | ApertusWeb5 | Thx
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16:48 | ApertusWeb5 | Makes sense. THe FMC with the Zed baord become the std dev platform. While not a WebPak available technology have you looked into Xilinx's high level systhesis tools in Vivado?
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16:49 | Bertl | I had a look at vivado, after checking out ISE, but we are currently using the xflow based build process and VHDL based designs
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16:50 | GuerricMDD | HLS (high level systhesis) would be an issue if only people having access to that technology can make modifications in the camera
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16:50 | se6astian | So to get back to 1) why is xilinx interested in this project? - we would love to hear more about your perspective
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16:51 | ApertusWeb5 | OpenCV support will be in Vivado too. Also ISE ends with the 7s. Abstraction frameworks like HSL, OpenCV, etc target this tech. I encourage you to look at Vivado
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16:51 | GuerricMDD | This tool "free" availability is an important aspect of the project
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16:52 | ApertusWeb5 | There are WebPack versions of Vivado. HLS is not, but Vivado is.
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16:52 | Bertl | ApertusWeb5: maybe you could help with a command line based workflow for Vivado?
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16:53 | ApertusWeb5 | I'm going to need to sign off to get to my next meeting. Sebastian, I'll email you later about meeting in Europe in Sep. If anyone would like to contact me I can be reached at *email address removed*.
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16:53 | ApertusWeb5 | There is a command flow for Vivado it's all TCL based
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16:54 | GuerricMDD | Ok Aaron. What is your impression before leaving?
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16:54 | ApertusWeb5 | It's much more powerful than ISE
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16:54 | ApertusWeb5 | Very excited about this project! WIll stay close to you guys and here to help as necessary. I think this is a great project.
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16:55 | ApertusWeb5 | Thanks guys!
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16:55 | se6astian | Thank you!
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16:55 | Bertl | thank you for approaching us!
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16:55 | GuerricMDD | Thanks! That was nice to talk to you guys!
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16:56 | GuerricMDD | I think nex time we wil be interested by discussing ho Xilinx could help somehow
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16:57 | GuerricMDD | See you next time, Bye!
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16:57 | oscarspierenburg | Yes, good to see you!
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