Current Server Time: 07:08 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2013/08/21

Timezone: UTC


05:19
jucar1
left the channel
09:20
ApertusWeb7
joined the channel
09:20
ApertusWeb7
changed nick to: test1
09:20
test1
changed nick to: test1212
09:21
test1212
left the channel
13:11
Bertl
morning everyone!
14:32
dmj_nova
morning Bertl
14:53
Oscar_Apertus
joined the channel
14:53
oscarspierenburg
joined the channel
15:20
dmj_nova
how long til xilinx?
15:21
se6astian
joined the channel
15:22
Bertl
approximately 38min
15:22
se6astian
hello!
15:22
se6astian
a good the countdown nas already started ;)
15:25
se6astian
whats the syntax to invite someone to the other channel when the nick is not registred
15:25
se6astian
or does it work at all
15:30
se6astian
I cant do it....
15:33
se6astian
hmm maybe now
15:33
se6astian
oscar, do you see the invitation?
15:39
oscarspierenburg
I'm using x-chat - where should I see the invitation?
15:42
Bertl
iirc, there is a status panel or window where this shows up, but just try to join the channel
15:43
Bertl
online help says, there is a 'use separate tab/window for server messages' in the window layout options
15:44
Bertl
if you have that on, it will show up in a separate tab/window, if not, it should show up on your current channel window
15:46
oscarspierenburg
still: Cannot join #apertus-int (Channel is invite only).
15:47
Bertl
try again
15:59
ApertusWeb8
joined the channel
16:00
ApertusWeb6
joined the channel
16:00
ApertusWeb6
Hello
16:00
ApertusWeb6
This is Aaron Behman from Xilinx
16:00
Bertl
whois aaron
16:01
Bertl
sorry
16:01
Bertl
try /nick aaron
16:01
Bertl
ah, probably won't work, try /nick aaron.behman
16:01
se6astian
Hi Aaron, great to have you here
16:01
ApertusWeb8
changed nick to: Guerric
16:01
ApertusWeb6
Thanks
16:02
ApertusWeb6
Is there an audio channel or is this old-school IRC?
16:02
se6astian
by typing "/nick aaron.behman" you can change your name
16:02
se6astian
only old school :)
16:02
ApertusWeb6
No worries :)
16:02
Bertl
nope, it's all text and emoticons :)
16:02
ApertusWeb6
Barrie, are you there/
16:02
ApertusWeb6
?
16:03
se6astian
Barrie didn't join so far
16:03
ApertusWeb6
Guess not. Anyway, Xilinx is interested in your project.
16:03
Guerric
changed nick to: GuerricMDD
16:03
Bertl
sounds good! may I ask why?
16:03
ApertusWeb6
I am responsible for camera applications @ XLNX with primary focus on Broadcast and Consumer segments
16:05
philippejadin
joined the channel
16:05
se6astian
Just before we start, is it OK for you if we stay on this public channel (we also have a private one)?
16:05
oscarspierenburg
Hi, I'm Oscar Spierenburg, founder of Apertus.
16:06
oscarspierenburg
Located in Belgium, as well is Philippe Jadin who just joined us.
16:07
ApertusWeb6
left the channel
16:07
philippejadin
Hi everyone
16:07
se6astian
Hello!
16:07
ApertusWeb5
joined the channel
16:07
ApertusWeb5
Sebastian, you there?
16:08
se6astian
yes
16:08
GuerricMDD
Hello everybody
16:08
ApertusWeb5
sorry, I disconnected and had to reconnect
16:08
ApertusWeb5
Hello Guerric
16:08
Bertl
no problem
16:08
ApertusWeb5
Barrie is joining now
16:08
se6astian
great
16:08
se6astian
does the webclient work well for you so far?
16:09
ApertusWeb5
It does.
16:09
dmj_nova
Hello all
16:09
jucar1
joined the channel
16:09
GuerricMDD
I Guerric Meurice de Dormale, I'm external FPGA advisor. Aaron, we met at NAB show this year (I'm working for IntoPIX). But I'm not here on behalf of intoPIX (it is after work involvment).
16:09
ApertusWeb5
Okay, so back to the topic at hand. Could you guys give me an overview of your project and let me knoe where things are headed.
16:10
se6astian
sure, but shouldnt we wait for Barrie?
16:10
ApertusWeb5
I see Guerric, very cool! Yes, I remember you.
16:10
ApertusWeb5
Yes, he's joining me in the conf room now!
16:10
GuerricMDD
Great!
16:10
Bertl
ah, so you are here via one nick, one voice, that's fine too :)
16:11
Bertl
my name is Herbert Poetzl, btw
16:11
se6astian
ok perfect, before we get started let me introduce the entire team present today
16:11
se6astian
user: oscarspierenburg - Oscar Spierenburg (Belgium): CEO apertus° Company, apertus° association vice-chairman
16:11
se6astian
I am Sebastian Pichelhofer (Austria): Senior Product Manager, apertus° association chairman
16:11
se6astian
user: Bertl - Herbert Pötzl (Austria): Chief Technical Engineer
16:12
se6astian
not present at the moment: Konstantin Kim (Switzerland): Design Engineer
16:12
se6astian
user: dmj_nova - David Jordan (USA): Software Engineer
16:12
se6astian
user: philippejadin - Philippe Jadin (Belgium): Public Relations, apertus° association advisory board
16:12
se6astian
and Gueric - Guerric Meurice de Dormale (Belgium) - external FPGA advisor as he already said
16:13
Bertl
k, now we have two unanswered questions in the room:
16:13
ApertusWeb5
Great. Here in San Jose at Xilinx is Aaron Behman, Sr. Manager Broadcast & Consumer (focused on camera apps) and Barrie Mullins, Dir. Zynq Business Development
16:14
Bertl
1) why is xilinx interested in this project? and
16:14
Bertl
2) what is this project about and where are we heading
16:14
Bertl
sebastian can probably answer the second one best
16:15
se6astian
yes, I should probably start with that
16:15
se6astian
I guess you have seen our Axiom website already: http://axiom.apertus.org/
16:15
ApertusWeb5
Sounds like a good agenda. #1 Seems like an innovative use of Zynq, also I am focused on camera apps and can be a potential resource within Xilinx to put you in touch with technology that can enable your project (IP, partners, HW, etc.)
16:16
ApertusWeb5
Yes, have seen the site. Very cool!
16:16
se6astian
Thanks :)
16:16
se6astian
so we are basically The First Ever
16:16
se6astian
Open Digital Cinema Camera
16:16
se6astian
that got a bit messed up...
16:16
se6astian
so we are basically building the first ever open source digital cinema camera
16:17
se6astian
FPGA based designs are a natural choice for this open source path
16:17
Bertl
sidenote: open source and open hardware that is
16:17
ApertusWeb5
So why do you see Zynq as a good fit here?
16:18
Bertl
from the technical PoV, the zedboard was a good match for the prototype
16:18
Bertl
hdmi, gbit ethernet, FMC, lots of pmod headers
16:18
Bertl
and of course, open hardware, open software
16:18
ApertusWeb5
I see, certainly 4k res is a good fit for FPGA when doing RT pixel processing
16:19
ApertusWeb5
Are you leveraging other open HW IP or are you developing OPen HW that you'll release to the community?
16:19
se6astian
and the combination of FPGA and CPU means maximum flexibility for us apertus° Axiom is much more than just “a product”. It’s an open camera platform - ready to evolve into things we haven’t even dreamt of today. The open and extendable nature of the Zynq matches that perfectly
16:20
ApertusWeb5
Yes, we would agree with you there :) We're seeing a lot of crowd source activity on the Si platform!
16:20
Bertl
the basic idea is to provide a stable platform for the community to work with, which is extensible and flexible and most importantly usable
16:21
GuerricMDD
For sure, if there are open HW IP out there that can fit a part of the job, we don't plan to re-invent the wheel
16:21
se6astian
So far the HW IP for the prototype has been custom designed and is being released to the community, but if we find open hardware IP for certain tasks (opencores) we will evalaute those as well
16:21
ApertusWeb5
Yes agree!
16:22
Bertl
an important aspect for us is that somebody who wants to modify something (hardware or software) can do that easily, and trust me, there are many folks in the cinema/camera community tinkering with their toys :)
16:23
Bertl
which in turn requires us to use open or at least freely available tools/cores/etc
16:23
ApertusWeb5
Yes, I'd imagine. So, today you are targetting a ZC7020 on the Zed board, that doesn't give you hi speed connectvity for SDI, HDMI, DP, etc. Are you planning to migrate up?
16:23
Bertl
(hence the limitation to the webpack FPGAs if we go that way)
16:24
ApertusWeb5
I know.
16:24
se6astian
making movies is a creative industry so the more open your tools are the less limits you have to deal with in your work and the more potential you have to set yourself ahead of what everybody else is doing
16:25
GuerricMDD
About the planning about FPGA model migration, maybe Sebastian you can list later on the milestones of the project...
16:25
se6astian
btw we are also creating a movie about "open source being adopted in Hollywood" and already shoot some great interviews with very respected people in Hollywood
16:25
se6astian
https://www.apertus.org/hollywood
16:25
se6astian
gladly, our plans for the prototype and further on are the following:
16:25
se6astian
1. Create a proof of concept prototype that uses the CMV12000 image sensor from CMOSIS, interfaces it with an FPGA and is able to capture single frames (full resolution) and motion video (25FPS at Full HD)
16:26
se6astian
2. Evaluate the sensor and possible options with the prototype, shoot sample footage and prepare a “prototype demo reel”
16:26
ApertusWeb5
Great, I'll check that out. You seem to be ahead of the pack in this movement. Are you seeing other similar projects or are you it?
16:26
se6astian
3. finish the specifications and concept 3D model of what we want the full Axiom camera to look like - put everything into the Axiom minisite in a visually appealing and clearly structured way
16:26
se6astian
4. Prepare a crowdfunding campaign with the prototype demo reel footage and the Axiom minisite detailing the plan - raise money to fund the actual development with a presale/donation campaign.
16:27
se6astian
In step 3 we will decide which components should eventually be used in the camera, Zynq or else
16:27
Bertl
so while the hardware configuration for the prototype is already fixed, the options for the final product are still open
16:27
ApertusWeb5
What's your timeline to fundraising?
16:27
GuerricMDD
And zynq 030 would be a better fit than zynq020
16:27
dmj_nova
To my knowledge, Apertus is the only open hardware cinema camera project, though there are other open projects directed toward professional filmmaking that we have relations with.
16:27
se6astian
if we will go with the Zynq it will have to be a model with high speed serial interfaces so the Z7030 would match the requirements, higher end models are not available with a free/open license so they are no option for us
16:28
se6astian
The prototype should be ready in the coming months and crowdfunding will happen soon afterwards
16:28
ApertusWeb5
Ok
16:29
se6astian
so thats the brief introduction from me, is everything clear so far?
16:29
ApertusWeb5
At Xilinx we need to look at potential options to support you here with hi speed serial. No commitments, but something Barrie and I can investigate.
16:29
GuerricMDD
Sebastian, can you list the features of the project? We already discussed some but I see some other missing
16:30
ApertusWeb5
Yes, quite clear.
16:31
se6astian
Ah yes, thanks guerric, beside the technical state of the art specs that you see on the axiom minisite we also connect a big part of the project to its philosophy and ecosystem
16:31
se6astian
Many people are currently afraid of buying a camera because of the speed at which new “products” are now being released, making a lot of devices very quickly outdated and obsolete. We want to stress that Axiom will not be outdated anytime soon - it will be constantly evolving - as we rely on FPGA based designs rather than fixed “set-in-stone systems”.
16:31
ApertusWeb5
Good question Guerric. Is there a detailed list of development milestones, e.g. develop ISP, develop mem mgmt sub0system, develop open connectivity sub-system.
16:32
se6astian
We and the entire community will deliver new interfaces, codecs, firmware and significant degrees of newer functionalities with a simple software download to the camera. It is our intention to use this to create a very powerful ecosystem around Axiom, providing support alongside the development of new features.
16:32
se6astian
This community that will form itself will consist of hardware and software developers as well as directors of photography or rental house and repair service providers, etc.
16:32
se6astian
But Axiom will also create an open knowledge library: the result of everything we have learned on the path to creating it - freely open for everyone's disposal.
16:32
se6astian
Affordable price is what we hope for but not a requirement for the project - we stress that good build quality, durability, flexibility and the ability of the system to evolve over time outweighs the fact that we are not the absolute cheapest.
16:33
ApertusWeb5
What OSes are you targeting?
16:33
se6astian
We have detailed development milestones for the prototype, but since we want to reevlatue all options with a working prototype before we commit to anything for the full camera we have detailed development milsetones for the full Axiom camera yet
16:34
ApertusWeb5
ok
16:34
se6astian
*we have no detailed development milsetones for the full Axiom camera yet
16:34
Bertl
the camera itself will most likely run Linux as OS
16:34
Bertl
to allow for quick modifications, scripting and similar
16:35
ApertusWeb5
I see. I have too many questions, are any of you planning to attend IBC? I will be there. I also will visit csutomers in Munich and Switzerland after the show. ANyone available to meet mid sep?
16:36
se6astian
We have no plans yet as we want to focus all our attention on getting the prototype finished but I am sure we can arrange something :)
16:37
ApertusWeb5
Okay, Sebastian, I'll coordinate with you.
16:37
se6astian
great!
16:37
oscarspierenburg
Sounds good, keep me updated on that meeting.
16:37
se6astian
Are you interested in the prototype milestones? I dont want to spam the channel otherwise :)
16:37
GuerricMDD
I will be at IBC (for IntoPIX) but as I'm only partially involved in the project, I think I'm not the best person for all your questions. And I will be there with my IntoPIX hat...
16:38
ApertusWeb5
One question. Would a FMC card supporting the CMOSIS sensor get any use on this project?
16:38
ApertusWeb5
Guerric, you and I will certainly catch up over a coffee or a beer at IBC :-)
16:38
GuerricMDD
Sure :)
16:38
se6astian
Thats what we are developing right now yes
16:38
Bertl
ApertusWeb5: we already finished the layout for the prototype
16:39
ApertusWeb5
You are, do you have specs on that? That could be a interesting revenue generator for your cause :-)
16:39
se6astian
first run PCB manufacturing will start shortly
16:39
GuerricMDD
Currently it is based on a LPC FMC (because of Zedboard)
16:39
Bertl
it will be quite simple (4 layer), cheap and of course, open hardware
16:40
ApertusWeb5
Will that FMC be open source or will you sell the FMCs?
16:40
GuerricMDD
HPC FMC would be needed to reach full possible fps
16:40
jucar1
left the channel
16:40
ApertusWeb5
What's the max res you can support on that design? 1080p60 or 2160
16:40
se6astian
it connects half of the 64 LVDS lanes from the CMV12000 to the Zedboard so while that means the maximum possible FPS is halfed it still means we will be able to go up to around 75 FPS at 4K
16:40
se6astian
4096x3072
16:41
ApertusWeb5
Okay, I'd like more info on that FMC. IS that public?
16:41
Bertl
yes, sec
16:41
philippejadin
theoretically I'd say, since the zedboard might be the bottleneck
16:42
ApertusWeb5
Right, but not the OZ745 from OmniTek. Are you guys familiar with that board. Also there is a 7045 board from Avnet
16:42
Bertl
up to now. the 7045 is no option for us because of the license
16:43
Bertl
ApertusWeb5: can you open/view eagle files?
16:43
ApertusWeb5
What's an eagle file?
16:43
GuerricMDD
For the development, such 045 board are not so cheap for our organisation
16:44
ApertusWeb5
Right, I know. @ $5K USD it's not accessible to many individual users
16:44
GuerricMDD
Yep, Omnitek one is at least 5k$
16:44
se6astian
about the FMC board, we have no public website about it yet as we want to wait until its running before we promote it
16:44
Bertl
ApertusWeb5: an (now xml) based format for schematic and board layouts (like altium) for a pcb tool called eagle
16:45
ApertusWeb5
There is an Avnet mini module (not yet out) with the 7045 that is ~ $1.3K, but that still doesn't address WebPack. Google: "Zynq Mini Module Plus"
16:45
ApertusWeb5
Please fwd me the files for the FMC we can view it.
16:46
philippejadin
to add to what GuerricMDD said, the idea is to be able to spread the development effort and potentially provide sensor boards to interested developers
16:46
Bertl
ApertusWeb5: okay, will do
16:47
ApertusWeb5
Thx
16:48
ApertusWeb5
Makes sense. THe FMC with the Zed baord become the std dev platform. While not a WebPak available technology have you looked into Xilinx's high level systhesis tools in Vivado?
16:49
Bertl
I had a look at vivado, after checking out ISE, but we are currently using the xflow based build process and VHDL based designs
16:50
GuerricMDD
HLS (high level systhesis) would be an issue if only people having access to that technology can make modifications in the camera
16:50
se6astian
So to get back to 1) why is xilinx interested in this project? - we would love to hear more about your perspective
16:51
ApertusWeb5
OpenCV support will be in Vivado too. Also ISE ends with the 7s. Abstraction frameworks like HSL, OpenCV, etc target this tech. I encourage you to look at Vivado
16:51
GuerricMDD
This tool "free" availability is an important aspect of the project
16:52
ApertusWeb5
There are WebPack versions of Vivado. HLS is not, but Vivado is.
16:52
Bertl
ApertusWeb5: maybe you could help with a command line based workflow for Vivado?
16:53
ApertusWeb5
I'm going to need to sign off to get to my next meeting. Sebastian, I'll email you later about meeting in Europe in Sep. If anyone would like to contact me I can be reached at aaronb@xilinx.com.
16:53
ApertusWeb5
There is a command flow for Vivado it's all TCL based
16:54
GuerricMDD
Ok Aaron. What is your impression before leaving?
16:54
ApertusWeb5
It's much more powerful than ISE
16:54
ApertusWeb5
Very excited about this project! WIll stay close to you guys and here to help as necessary. I think this is a great project.
16:55
jucar1
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16:55
ApertusWeb5
Thanks guys!
16:55
se6astian
Thank you!
16:55
Bertl
thank you for approaching us!
16:55
GuerricMDD
Thanks! That was nice to talk to you guys!
16:56
GuerricMDD
I think nex time we wil be interested by discussing ho Xilinx could help somehow
16:57
GuerricMDD
See you next time, Bye!
16:57
oscarspierenburg
Yes, good to see you!
17:05
GuerricMDD
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oscarspierenburg
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jucar1
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