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06:10 | davidak | i got some work done :)
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06:10 | davidak | https://lab.apertus.org/T827#13611
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07:39 | Bertl | morning folks!
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07:46 | davidak | good morning Bertl
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07:51 | Bertl | will upload the missing files soon
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07:51 | Bertl | git repo as working dir is not really feasable for several reasons
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07:53 | Bertl | *feasible
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08:15 | davidak | good morning se6astian
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08:16 | davidak | do you know who initially wrote the octave scripts?
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08:16 | davidak | https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/misc-tools-utilities/blob/master/color-calibration/main.m
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08:24 | davidak | was it also a1ex?
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08:56 | anuejn | Bertl: why is using the git repo as working dir not an option for you? it would make it easier for others to understand your work too...
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09:02 | Bertl | well, one reason is that I have work I do for customers (including closed source) there as well ... another reason is the huge number of incomplete designs without proper copyright and/or license (i.e. internal ones)
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09:03 | Bertl | so once a design becomes 'usable' and is 'tested' it will be cleaned up, properly licensed and published
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09:08 | anuejn | ok but the designs for the axiom project are all open source?
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09:09 | anuejn | and whats the problem with having untested stuff in a git repo too and just mege them into master, once they are tested?
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09:10 | anuejn | moreover, whats the problem with having pre versions licensed with gpl/ohl too and publish them on dev branches?
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09:14 | davidak | release early, release often ;)
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09:17 | Bertl | the problem is mainly that it adds a lot of additional work to my already huge workload ...
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09:18 | Bertl | if you feel like this is important for you, send me money on a regular basis to do the extra work and I'll gladly do it
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09:18 | davidak | sure, but it makes contributing easier and the published files are always up to date
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09:21 | Bertl | it might make it easier, I'm not really convinced there though
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09:21 | Bertl | having untested designs out in the wild can cause a lot of harm as well, especially with hardware
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09:22 | davidak | thats why it is important to mark working versions and have seperate development branch
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09:23 | davidak | currently we don't have a lot contributors, so it might not be worth the extra effort.
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09:23 | davidak | but maybe it's why we have not more contributors
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09:25 | Bertl | I think hardware is quite different from software regarding contributions ...
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09:26 | Bertl | for example, the plugin interface is set in stone since the beginning i.e. it has not changed the last two or three years
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09:27 | Bertl | it is simple and there is a lot of potential for creating your own
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09:27 | Bertl | (plugin that is)
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09:28 | davidak | i think a reason for that is that only very few people own an AXIOM Beta
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09:28 | Bertl | still we haven't had a single person (outside of apertus) creating a published plugin
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09:29 | Bertl | well, it might be related to that, but I also think it is realted to the fact that hardware needs to be designed, built and tested (similar to software) but the cycles there are much much larger and the cost is a lot higher
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09:29 | Bertl | s/larger/longer/
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09:30 | davidak | would it be possible for you to work in the git repo on AXIOM Beta PCBs and commit when a revision is ready
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09:30 | Bertl | so for example, if you had a new 'known not working' version of the power board every day, what help would it be?
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09:31 | davidak | and push to github. might be even faster than uploading to the fileserver?
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09:31 | davidak | and updating the wiki
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09:31 | Bertl | it would take you a day or two to figure out what is not working and why and at that point, the design already has changed
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09:32 | davidak | makes sense
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09:32 | Bertl | there is also not much point in having releases which get never built or tested online
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09:33 | Bertl | we had 36 major revisions on the main board now, but only built 30 cameras or so
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09:33 | Bertl | what would be the use of those revisions which were sorted out (because of flaws in the design)?
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09:34 | Bertl | so that somebody can build a non working main board?
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09:35 | davidak | when you notice a problem and have it in the last 5 revisions, it's good to have version control to look what changes there
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09:35 | Bertl | did you try to check the changes between two minor revisions with git?
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09:35 | davidak | no :D
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09:36 | Bertl | please do that (no need to check major revisions to see my point there)
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09:36 | davidak | i saw that it is some text format
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09:36 | Bertl | it is pure XML
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09:36 | davidak | but don't know if the diffs are helpful
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09:36 | Bertl | so no problem to make a diff, but the result is typically useless
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09:37 | Bertl | which also doesn't make it very suitable for revision control
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09:38 | Bertl | as I already pointed out, I'm perfectly fine with having all the revisions we built an tested in a git repository, as long as somebody takes care of that
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09:39 | Bertl | I'm also happy to clean up, check and upload those files :)
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09:39 | davidak | it don't makes sense to maintain two places where the files are
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09:40 | davidak | so in your expereance just having a file for every revision on a fileserver works best for hardware development?
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09:42 | davidak | it might help to just clean up the fileserver, have a folder for every PCB and module
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09:42 | davidak | only the current version in it and a archive folder with the older versions
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09:43 | davidak | the current structure in the wiki makes it quiet easy to find the files
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09:47 | Bertl | I'm fine with having a 'cleaned up' file repository somewhere
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09:48 | Bertl | I don't have a problem putting files there as long as a simple rsync/scp can do that
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09:49 | Bertl | I do not suggest to move stuff around when a new version is released, because this tends to break internal and external links
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09:49 | se6astian | davidak: pretty sure all octave scripts were created by alex
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09:49 | Bertl | (which is why I do not 'reorganize' the stuff on vserver.13thfloor.at
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09:49 | Bertl | )
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09:55 | davidak | se6astian changed
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09:56 | se6astian | thanks
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10:04 | davidak | Bertl could we break links once to organize files on folders?
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10:05 | davidak | put every axiom_beta_main_board_* in /Stuff/AXIOM/BETA/MAIN_BOARD/
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10:06 | davidak | you argued that old versions are not useful when better versions are available, so broken links should not be critical
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10:06 | davidak | when it is critical, 301 redirects could be setup
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10:07 | davidak | then we can delete the beta-hardware repository from github
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10:27 | Bertl | how about this: http://vserver.13thfloor.at/AXIOM/
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10:30 | davidak | thats even better
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10:31 | davidak | could we use files.apertus.org?
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10:31 | Bertl | sure, no problem with that
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10:31 | davidak | ah, that already exists :D
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10:32 | davidak | fat-lady.jpg :D
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10:32 | Bertl | you know the saying: 'It ain't over till the fat lady sings'?
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10:33 | davidak | no
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10:33 | Bertl | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_ain%27t_over_till_the_fat_lady_sings
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10:35 | davidak | i see
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10:41 | Bertl | so, where would you like to have this structure once and for all :)
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10:49 | davidak | what about http://files.apertus.org/HARDWARE/AXIOM/BETA/MAIN_BOARD ? se6astian
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10:56 | Bertl | btw, just saw it on the wiki, the 'Dummy Interface Board' is called 'Interface Dummy Board' which might even be more correct but is probably a little confusing too
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10:58 | Bertl | off for now ... bbl
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11:18 | TofuLynx | Hey! Regarding GSoC, do you guys consider optimization important in the C/C++ challenge?
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11:22 | se6astian | davidak looks good
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11:23 | davidak | ok, then we will do it like that
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11:23 | davidak | after Bertl moved the files, i will update the links in the wiki
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11:26 | se6astian | thanks
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12:06 | se6astian | TofuLynx: optimization is not important for the C/C++ challenge
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13:33 | TofuLynx | Okay :)
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13:34 | TofuLynx | Is it possible to know who are the potential mentors?
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13:38 | Bertl_oO | davidak: done
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13:39 | Bertl_oO | TofuLynx: the mentors are listed on each task
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13:40 | Bertl_oO | (not the challenges, the actual tasks)
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13:41 | TofuLynx | Ah!
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13:42 | davidak | great. thanks!
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13:42 | TofuLynx | who is alex?
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13:43 | Bertl_oO | https://www.apertus.org/magic-lantern-getting-to-grips-with-axiom-beta-image-sensor-article-feb-2016
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13:43 | Bertl_oO | davidak: you're welcome!
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13:43 | TofuLynx | Oh! I remember him!
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13:44 | Bertl_oO | davidak: let me know what you are missing there, I'll try to add it ... note that the BOM needs to be manually cleaned up so that will take some time
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13:45 | TofuLynx | also
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13:45 | TofuLynx | linearization is responsible for the image's true to life colors, right?
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13:46 | Bertl_oO | yes, but it is a little more complex than just that
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13:46 | TofuLynx | and makes the image overall brighter, right?
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13:46 | TofuLynx | so I don't need to worry about my image being a little dark?
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13:46 | Bertl_oO | yep, that's because you don't have a gamma applied
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13:47 | TofuLynx | Ok :)
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16:26 | TofuLynx | Bandit, I have some questions. You are the mentor of the T722 task, I would like to get to know what you do as a mentor and stuff
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16:27 | TofuLynx | and how does the accepted candidate, which I hope to be, work, in his house? Does he have to travel somewhere sometimes?
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16:27 | BAndiT1983 | i guide the student, give hints and check the work
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16:28 | BAndiT1983 | gsoc does not require travel
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16:28 | BAndiT1983 | every month there is a meeting between mentors to grade the progress
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16:28 | TofuLynx | and how does the grading works?
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16:29 | TofuLynx | is it like from 0 to 20
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16:29 | TofuLynx | or simply approved or not?
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16:29 | BAndiT1983 | more like approved or not, but trying to give chances, if we think that the student could improve
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16:30 | TofuLynx | Ok :)
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16:31 | BAndiT1983 | have you already completed the C++ challenge?
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16:31 | TofuLynx | and yeah
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16:31 | TofuLynx | yeah*
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16:32 | BAndiT1983 | is the clipping problem gone?
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16:32 | TofuLynx | the two strange layers? Yep, gone
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16:33 | BAndiT1983 | sounds good
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16:34 | TofuLynx | Where do I submit the application when it opens?
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16:34 | BAndiT1983 | have to discuss with se6astian etc., when we would look through submitted stuff
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16:34 | TofuLynx | Ok :)
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16:34 | BAndiT1983 | there is a gsoc page for that, you just have to sign in with your gmail account
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16:35 | BAndiT1983 | i suppose that it will be there ->
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16:35 | TofuLynx | hmm, and how do I submit the C/C++ challenge code? with the application?
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16:35 | BAndiT1983 | summerofcode.withgoogle.com
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16:36 | BAndiT1983 | you could upload it to some github repo
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16:36 | BAndiT1983 | or in lab
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16:36 | TofuLynx | yeah, I discovered apertus from there
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16:36 | TofuLynx | Ok! :D
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16:37 | BAndiT1983 | as we are looking through each submission manually, it is harder to cheat, if anyone tries to copy the code
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16:38 | BAndiT1983 | every developer has his own style and it's recognizable, we will also ask questions to see if the application was really written by the same student
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16:39 | TofuLynx | here in the chat or by email?
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16:41 | BAndiT1983 | depends on the situation, but it think some private chat room, it's not about embarassing the people
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16:42 | TofuLynx | Ok!
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16:47 | TofuLynx | Is it the first time Apertus is on GSoC?
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16:47 | BAndiT1983 | no, second one
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16:48 | TofuLynx | And did some of the students still continue to contribute after it?
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16:49 | BAndiT1983 | can't say for sure, but niculescu_vlad is still on the IRC here
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16:49 | BAndiT1983 | haven't seen others since gsoc
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16:50 | Bertl_oO | well, the two other students didn't finish GSoC 2017
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16:50 | TofuLynx | ah
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16:50 | TofuLynx | they gave up?
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16:50 | Bertl_oO | one did kind of give up, the other was 'given up' :)
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16:51 | TofuLynx | oh Ok!
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16:51 | BAndiT1983 | one wasn't up to the task, don't know about the other one
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16:52 | Bertl_oO | he did some good work, but at the end, he had no time for GSoC because of his exams
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16:53 | BAndiT1983 | yeah, gsoc requires a lot of time, from both sides
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16:54 | TofuLynx | Well, May is exam time for me too, but my university will host the Olympic University Games, so it can save me time
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16:54 | TofuLynx | as the exams are being done earlier
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16:55 | BAndiT1983 | with right preparation and time management, gsoc is doable
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16:55 | BAndiT1983 | but it's no walk in the park, had to learn and prepare a lot before being able to do mentoring
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16:56 | BAndiT1983 | students have to do the same
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16:56 | TofuLynx | I see
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16:58 | TofuLynx | Everyone learns from the GSoC experience
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16:58 | TofuLynx | the students, mentors and the organization
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16:59 | BAndiT1983 | there is always a hope that students would stay with the project after gsoc
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16:59 | BAndiT1983 | but not many people want to work for free
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17:01 | TofuLynx | yeah I understand that
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17:02 | TofuLynx | but as GSoC says on its page, it's FOSS organizations
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17:07 | BAndiT1983 | to be honest, a lot of students are doing gsoc because of money
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17:09 | TofuLynx | Yeah, I see
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17:14 | BAndiT1983 | can't blame them, earning money as student is not easy, it depends on the country also, it's just a little bit annoying when someone tries to attend but has not much knowledge, which is a waste of time for both sides
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17:18 | TofuLynx | but weren't there a lot of applicants on apertus?
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17:19 | BAndiT1983 | yes, we had a long selection process, but it was our first time
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17:19 | BAndiT1983 | so the guys came up with challenges for this year to see if candidates are suitable
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17:21 | TofuLynx | Makes sense!
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17:23 | TofuLynx | was it frequent to appear applications from students that never talked with you before?
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17:24 | BAndiT1983 | most students were present in the chat, from time to time or just few times
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17:24 | BAndiT1983 | but if i'm not mistaken, then there were applications from unknown ones
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17:25 | BAndiT1983 | but they had not the right volume of information, we had a template and questions, so most of them were not considered
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17:26 | TofuLynx | Ok! :)
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17:26 | TofuLynx | Thanks for answering me the questions!
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17:27 | BAndiT1983 | no problem, maybe also others want to know that stuff, as it's FOSS organization ;)
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17:28 | TofuLynx | :D
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17:59 | TofuLynx | The GSoC student guide says that the application platform varies from organization to organization. Can I put images in the application platform of Apertus?
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18:03 | BAndiT1983 | the application is usually a PDF file, so the images can be placed there
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18:29 | TofuLynx | Bandit, did you try to reproduce the issue?
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18:29 | BAndiT1983 | not yet, still not successful?
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18:30 | TofuLynx | yeah, havent tried again today though
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18:30 | BAndiT1983 | alright will try it now
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18:45 | BAndiT1983 | TofuLynx, if your feel ready, then you can upload your challenge code to github or similar
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18:58 | TofuLynx | Ok! Just making sure
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18:58 | TofuLynx | I don't need to worry about linearization neither gamma applying, right_
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18:58 | TofuLynx | ?*
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19:02 | BAndiT1983 | no, nothing of the advanced stuff, no performance optimizations
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19:02 | BAndiT1983 | this things would be important for gsoc maybe, but not for the challenge
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19:03 | TofuLynx | Ok!
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19:04 | TofuLynx | I really liked learning while making the Challenge
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19:26 | TofuLynx | Bandit, were you successful with the beta firmware?
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19:30 | BAndiT1983 | still testing, my VM is a bit broken, let me re-install it quick
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19:49 | anuejn | Bertl: davidak: thanks a lot :)
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19:49 | anuejn | this is a quite good organized form
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19:50 | anuejn | if this is easier than git for you bertl, than it ia equally fine
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19:50 | anuejn | much love <3
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20:12 | Bertl_oO | perfect!
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20:28 | BAndiT1983 | TofuLynx, have you also installed the packages? -> g++-arm-linux-gnueabi and gcc-arm-linux-gnueabi
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20:33 | BAndiT1983 | also boxes is required in fresh linuxmint, but there is a general problem, that some sub-modules can't be pulled
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20:54 | se6astian | off for today
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20:54 | se6astian | good night
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20:54 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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20:56 | TofuLynx | yes I installed. But that step isn't where I couldnt overcome the issues
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20:56 | TofuLynx | It was at the step 4
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20:57 | BAndiT1983 | seeing a lot of issues while trying to install, tried on linuxmint and manjaro
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20:58 | TofuLynx | yeah :/
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20:58 | seku | left the channel | |
20:58 | BAndiT1983 | now my manjaro is broken, probably modification of bashrc
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20:59 | TofuLynx | my fix for it was by using echo
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20:59 | TofuLynx | instead of copy and pasting it directly
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21:00 | BAndiT1983 | what do you mean by that?
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21:00 | TofuLynx | by using the echo command, it changes the path
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21:01 | BAndiT1983 | you mean temporarily?
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21:01 | TofuLynx | no no
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21:01 | TofuLynx | wait
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21:01 | TofuLynx | I will explain it
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21:01 | TofuLynx | I have a example
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21:02 | TofuLynx | Ok
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21:02 | TofuLynx | the ./install.sh
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21:03 | TofuLynx | said at the end to copy and paste this on the bashrc
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21:03 | TofuLynx | export PATH=$PATH:/home/claudio/Desktop/ApertusTesting/axiom-beta-qemu/external/gcc-linaro-4.9-gnueabi/bin
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21:03 | TofuLynx | I copy pasted it on the bashrc and didnt work
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21:03 | TofuLynx | then I used echo, and it wrote this:
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21:03 | TofuLynx | export PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/games:/$
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21:04 | TofuLynx | which is a lot different
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21:04 | TofuLynx | but fixed.
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21:04 | BAndiT1983 | usually you should prepend it with $PATH: so the previous one is stored
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21:05 | TofuLynx | well
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21:05 | TofuLynx | it was my fix
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21:06 | TofuLynx | and the issue I cant overcome in the step 4 is related with the patch file
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21:07 | TofuLynx | and I have no knowledge on how patch files work
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21:07 | BAndiT1983 | the process really broke my linux and keyboard does not work in emergency shell
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21:08 | TofuLynx | wow :O
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21:08 | BAndiT1983 | the patch files are just applying diffs of the code
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21:08 | BAndiT1983 | luckily i use a VM, so not a big problem, but the issue is also possible on physical machines
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21:09 | TofuLynx | Hmm
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21:09 | TofuLynx | it may be the reason it broke my linux too
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21:09 | TofuLynx | but not sure
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21:09 | BAndiT1983 | have you tried my suggestion with deactivating patch files?
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21:09 | TofuLynx | Hmm I dont think so
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21:10 | TofuLynx | Also, by the time I was trying to install the firmware, I had to repartition the disk so linux could have more space (was dual booting with windows), after it, it broke linux and I had to reinstall it
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21:10 | TofuLynx | now you said it, not sure if I blame windows
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21:10 | BAndiT1983 | the patch files could be obsolete, because they were added 3 months ago and xilinx maybe changed the related code already
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21:11 | TofuLynx | I will check it!
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21:12 | BAndiT1983 | that's why i use virtualbox, also because of manufacturer recovery partition, don't want to mess it up at the moment
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21:12 | TofuLynx | I understand
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21:20 | TofuLynx | Bandit
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21:21 | BAndiT1983 | ?
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21:21 | TofuLynx | I have uploaded my code
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21:21 | TofuLynx | for the challende
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21:21 | TofuLynx | to the repository
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21:21 | TofuLynx | I am sending the link
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21:21 | BAndiT1983 | alright
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21:24 | TofuLynx | https://github.com/TofuLynx/apertus-CppChallenge
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21:25 | BAndiT1983 | will store it in the lab, so it doesn't get lost
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21:25 | TofuLynx | Thanks :)
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21:25 | BAndiT1983 | have you registered there already?
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21:25 | TofuLynx | yeah
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21:25 | TofuLynx | TofuLynx too
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21:26 | TofuLynx | Do you have any idea when I will get feedback about it?
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21:26 | BAndiT1983 | i hope soon, have to sit down and take a look but together with some others
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21:27 | TofuLynx | Ok! :)
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21:27 | futarisIRCcloud | joined the channel | |
21:28 | BAndiT1983 | so, added your link to the desccription, you should get a notification from the system, because of name linking
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21:28 | TofuLynx | Got it!
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21:41 | sebix | left the channel | |
22:15 | BAndiT1983 | TofuLynx, have you looked at https://lab.apertus.org/T737 already?
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22:15 | BAndiT1983 | it was the beginning of QEMU prototype
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22:18 | BAndiT1983 | here is the SD image ->
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22:18 | BAndiT1983 | http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/BETA/
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22:18 | BAndiT1983 | just sort for size, it's one with 3.6G
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22:25 | BAndiT1983 | just be aware that it is rather old one, but shouldn't be a problem to try the firmware out
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22:26 | BAndiT1983 | will try to discuss with se6astian and Bertl_oO further approach tomorrow, as we need to correct this scripts
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22:26 | BAndiT1983 | changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
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23:17 | TofuLynx | I will check it
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23:26 | TofuLynx | left the channel | |
23:37 | futarisIRCcloud | left the channel | |
23:51 | Bertl_oO | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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23:51 | Bertl_oO | changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
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