#apertus IRC Channel Logs

off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!

philippej reopened T146: Forum restructuring proposal as "Open". http://lab.apertus.org/T146

Our company Incatec is currently developing a PCIe framegrabber for our 4k Open Hardware Camera Platform which might also be suitable for Apertus users, maybe with slight changes

His nick is Bertl_zZ (the _zZ meaning he is away :-) )

Hi Philippej. Herbert told me he might be asleep or away...:-)

yes, the k160t is the largest fpga that can be used with the free webpack software

The framegrabber will be able to record 4k@30p RAW over 1x3GSDI, 4k60p RAW over 2x3GSDI and even 4k120p RAW over 4x3GSDI

as for physicall connectors, I'd personnally favor sdi's bnc

We also plan to develop and sell advanced IP cores as closed source addition to the platform (both for the camera and the framegrabber)> We have to make some money too :-)

defenitely true Phillipej!

I'm an Incatec employee btw, I'll follow the discussion as well as answer questions if possible/needed :0

Herbert will have more interesting questions / ideas than me

what is the highest bandwidth you could push on a single cable (if it's not sdi) ? At some point I guess cable lenght becomse an issue. Depending on usecase, a short cable could be used (when the camera and recorder are in the same enclosure for example)

cable driver = fpga code?

No the cable driver is an IC on the board which enables higher cable lengths. According to the standard up to 90 meters with good cable. We have only tested it with 20 meters so far...

this could be also a good use case for cinema : put the camera head on a crane, and have the recorder on the ground

(note to self, crazy that you can put 20Gbit on a 90 m cable :-))

for longer distances you can always use standard 3gSDI to optical fiber converters.

is there a market for this grabber card outside your and our use you think?

we aim for the high speed/high resolution market, which in itself is very broad.

we could for example provide better support and better drivers, maybe crowdsource the development of drivers for various uses

We know that problem you describe, which has actually led us to develop our own.

Hello Bertl, some backlog for you already :-)

We are already thinking of crowdfunding for this. We also think about using compression to get the max out of the sensor (4k@400p and 2k@850p) with automatic image analysis for detecting trigger events in the image. This would probably be closed source however, since it is a large investement and close to our core business.

okay, I've finished the backlog now :)

the K160T has 8 GTX tranceivers, so you plan to use 4 for PCIe and the other 4 for the SDI, yes?

what IP do you use for the PCIe side?

okay, so the hardware is already available?

yes...we are opening a webshop in december...

we still need to develop the FPGA code for the PCIExpress functionality though

We will start selling our open hardware camera platform in December.

May I ask if you already have a price range for the grabber?

so the hardware is not really open then, just documented

Price range for the framegrabber will probably be about 2500-3000 euro.

If volumes increase, the price can be lower of course

excellent! thanks!

and you are currently working on the software (FPGA code) or looking for somebody to work on that?

no problem

On top of that we plan to build some additional closed form IP (e.g. speeds up to 400p using compression) and improved processing

However, with the open source code you will have a fully functional 4k120p system.

yes.

RAW bayer pattern over 4x3G SDI

do you have a price estimate for the camera?

It will probably be around 4500 euro

okay, sounds reasonable

ok, I sent it by email ...

it depends a bit on what is needed for you. We could for example together make sure that our framegrabber correctly communicates with your camera. That way the apertus users can have access to recording equipment as soon as the camera comes out.

I'm not sure however what you need. Do you need more manpower for your development? Could we make shorter time to market by bringing in our framegrabber and camera knowledge?

sounds good to me. to answer the questions

using the card as is would require to add a 4 channel SDI interface shield to the Beta

I understand.So you are planning to use HDMI right?

Do you plan to use MGT pairs for these?

Bertl: what about 4x3Gbit serial channels? :+)

so anyone can decide which protocol he/she wants to use, whether it be SDI or not

but with -3 12GT should be possible IIRC

Our board has basically MGT's connected to a 3Gigabit cable driver into a HDBNC connector. We can do whatever protocol we want on that interface, as long as the physical connection is 3Gb or 6Gb and adheres to the physical SDI standard. The driver chips are small (5x5mm) and the HDBNC are also not very large.

It is also possible to remove the cable drivers and connect directly, but cable lengths will be limited...

Just checked the datasheet: with speed grade -3 and FFG package the GTXs go up to 12.5Gb/s

of course, it would be great to open up the design for the shield

that would be no problem of course

which would allow the AXIOM Beta community to have a generic as well as AXIOM Beta specific recording solution

in return, we can provide an AXIOM Beta (once we have something working) to test with as well

okay, so if you still want to help with current development, then definitely having a review of our sensor and interface designs would be much appreciated

We still want to develop a custom frame with coolinf gor the FPGA that is GPU like dual slot.

we'll be on a lunch break now. Talk to you later!

well, no questions from my side at the moment ... everything sounds great so far!

what I would appreciate is feedback to the current sensor and interface design ASAP as we plan to order the PCBs soon

specifically the axiom_beta_sensor* and the axiom_beta_interface_dummy*

Did you actually calculate the differential impedance on the LVDS channels?

:-) We don't have these tools. Our board is designed with a partner who has these tools...

How is the stack for the dummy board? Top and bottom signal and ground in between? Or also power?

(same as for the sensor board)

i.e. does the differential signal on top or bottom cross a voltage change?

MOX crowdfundinf was succesfull and reached all of it's streched goals

lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 15 Apr 22 2014 S20rsync -> ../init.d/rsync*

lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 17 May 27 13:09 S20sysstat -> ../ini

lol, some crap pasted

looked it up for our design: for the sensor connections we also cross power planes, but not for the high speed SDI signals...

davidak2: sounds good!

off for now ... bbs

i'm a noob who missed out on the indiegogo campaign by a day! can anyone help me

will they ever be for sale openingly on this website?

live pseudorandom audio and video data stream : http://aombk.attinom.net/otr/betahive

Bertl created T175: Investigate Open Source USB 3.0 Stack. http://lab.apertus.org/T175

Bertl created T177: Investigate (e)DisplayPort. http://lab.apertus.org/T177

Bertl created T178: Investigate FPGA Options (Low Power as well as Processing) and Licenses.. http://lab.apertus.org/T178

the audio is generated

it sounds really good (and creepy)

what software do you use for streaming?

but Open Broadcaster Software is also good

good evening

Hi Bertl, I noticed your task to investigate the Micron HMC memory.

yes indeed, not sure how practicable it is atm though

I know some of the companies involved in the coaxpress standard by the way. They do up to 4x6.25Gb/s giving 25 Gbit/s. Not sure if they use specific drivers.

Yes, we currently use the IP core from xilinx, but it is in fact very well possible to do it yourself.

yeah, it shouldn't be too complicated as far as I checked

Of course it will take some time to develop but it shouldn't be too difficult.

do you have resources to do that?

but hey, it works!

we've seen that with HDMI out to the Atomos

We noticed that some companies use black magic in their products (and name) and do not adhere to the SDI standard...

*G*

i'm away for a moment...

sebastian closed T165: Create TAG Festival article for apertus.org as "Resolved". http://lab.apertus.org/T165

time for bed

good night

good night se6astian

thanks davidak !

https://apertus.org/en/faq

good night everyone

davidak created T180: Update Donation site. http://lab.apertus.org/T180