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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2020/04/20

Timezone: UTC


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comradekingu
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04:21
Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
04:21
Bertl_oO
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06:37
BAndiT1983|away
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panintended
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BAndiT1983
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BAndiT1983|away
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12:41
se6ast1an
welcome panintended!
12:42
panintended
hi all
12:42
se6ast1an
great to hear you already got the visualizer of the axiom remote rnning
12:42
se6ast1an
*running
12:42
se6ast1an
I added a few more small dev tasks today: https://lab.apertus.org/project/view/18/
12:42
se6ast1an
so if you want you can jump right in and pick one
12:43
se6ast1an
but lets coordinate with BAndiT1983, metal_dent[m] and ashok_singh[m]
12:43
se6ast1an
so we don't all do the same thing at the same time
12:43
panintended
ok, understood
12:43
se6ast1an
you can claim a task in the lab for example then its clear
12:44
se6ast1an
but lets still discuss it first, that way its more transparent and a more collaborative process
12:45
se6ast1an
BAndiT1983: is kind of in charge or making sure everything is structured well in subclasses and using interface classes etc.
12:45
se6ast1an
I am more focusing on the user experience and visual side of the remote
12:46
se6ast1an
metal_dent[m] and ashok_singh[m] are students who chose the remote as their project in google summer of code
12:46
se6ast1an
panintended: maybe you could tell us a bit about yourself, your eperience and what you would like to do?
12:49
BAndiT1983
hey, sorry, am working right now and haven't noticed new messages in the main channel
12:54
panintended
Nice to meet you all, thanks for the intro se6ast1an
12:55
panintended
About me: I've been building stuff since I was a kid (furniture, carnival costumes, electronics) and it's still my main hobby to this day. I'm a software dev by day. I also enjoy cooking :)
12:56
panintended
Regarding the project, I could help with:
12:56
panintended
1. Software development: I'm mostly a C/C++ person, but I can also help elsewhere when needed. I have a special interest towards the lower end of the stack, especially at the hardware/software interface. I also tinker with embedded systems for hobby-projects of mine.
12:56
panintended
2. Electronics: assembly/testing. I believe I can work my way around with a soldering iron pretty well, with occasional SMT part here and there.
12:56
panintended
3. Feedback on the mechanical design/ergonomics/user experience.
12:58
BAndiT1983
nice, which area do you work in?
12:59
se6ast1an
regarding 2. - you are welcome to solder the remote prototype as well, but its almost all SMT :)
12:59
se6ast1an
regarding 3. feedback for AXIOM Beta compact enclosure CAD design would be great, also the AXIOM remote planned enclosure
13:00
se6ast1an
and of course the remote UI and UX
13:01
panintended
BAndiT1983: In telecomms, backend stuff. you?
13:02
BAndiT1983
banking, also backend (using java), but am coming from C/C++ since my teenage years
13:03
panintended
se6ast1an: regarding assembly, a picture of an empty vs populated board woule help me determine if I can pull it off. Let me know if there are any available.
13:03
se6ast1an
sure, one sec
13:04
BAndiT1983
https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Beta_Power_Board
13:04
BAndiT1983
check the 2 images after the title one
13:04
panintended
the most direct way I can contribute now is software. I find the remote to be a good starting point, especially because of the visualizer
13:04
panintended
thanks
13:04
se6ast1an
https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/AXIOM_Remote_PCB_Bottom_Aug_2018_f2f2f2_sm.png
13:04
se6ast1an
https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/AXIOM_Remote_PCB_Top_Aug_2018_f2f2f2_sm_0.png
13:04
se6ast1an
https://twitter.com/ApertusOSCinema/status/982313568757575680/photo/1
13:07
panintended
oh boy :)
13:08
se6ast1an
the remote board is actually pretty simple compared to the beta hardware
13:08
panintended
well, for the remote I can definitely manage the top and most of the bottom (if not all)
13:08
BAndiT1983
just ask Bertl how to sold it, he can do with closed eyes ;)
13:08
BAndiT1983
*solder
13:09
se6ast1an
like this: https://i.imgur.com/y3xWTUc.jpg
13:10
panintended
hahaha, yes exactly like that :)
13:10
BAndiT1983
know that image for years, but still wondering if they have confused a multimeter with soldering iron
13:11
panintended
now for the power board, I've soldered small components before (think 0603) but not at *that* amount.
13:13
panintended
se6ast1an: yes, actually a multimeter with a single probe
13:15
se6ast1an
connected to 230V
13:15
BAndiT1983
and fingers placed for conductivity
13:16
se6ast1an
about to head out now to the supermarket
13:16
se6ast1an
panintended: will you stay for todays team meeting here?
13:16
se6ast1an
in 3h 45min
13:17
se6ast1an
I think that would be great
13:19
panintended
se6ast1an: sure, I'll join. I'll have a look at the dev tasks in the meantime
13:19
se6ast1an
great
13:19
se6ast1an
see you then!
13:19
panintended
see you
13:22
BAndiT1983
panintended: if you have questions, ask them anytime, looking into the chat from time to time while working
13:22
BAndiT1983
waiting for jenkins takes quite some time
13:22
panintended
sure thing, thanks :)
13:24
BAndiT1983
no problem
13:35
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
13:35
Bertl
morning folks!
13:35
BAndiT1983
hi
13:40
panintended
hello
14:17
panintended
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BAndiT1983
changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
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aombk
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schmoggie1
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schmoggie
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aombk
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panintended
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BAndiT1983|away
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16:22
anuejn
se6ast1an: interesting insights: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQMbvfXHsTeE43rwI8xsbA1fmJs4dYB82IR_UZJwBTYPftE85U8P741qeTCQNoKYNSJR6TfPYOARnPd/pubhtml?gid=428473158&single=true
16:23
anuejn
this shows, that the python 5000 and the cmv 8000 are interesting candidates in their leagues
16:25
anuejn
and the OS08A10 which is unfortunately not available with datasheet
16:58
se6ast1an
will you focus on a single sensor at first or do you want to support multiple?
16:58
se6ast1an
if its a single one it should mainly be very affordable I assumed?
16:58
se6ast1an
10-20$ range?
17:00
se6ast1an
Meeting time!
17:00
se6ast1an
who is here?
17:00
Bertl
is here ...
17:00
panintended
hello
17:00
vup
is here
17:00
se6ast1an
please send me a direct message now if you want to report/share
17:00
Oscar
joined the channel
17:01
Oscar
Hi!
17:01
se6ast1an
great, this will be a big round today :)
17:01
BAndiT1983
am here
17:01
bluez_[m]
* bluez_ is here
17:01
schmoggie1
here
17:02
metal_dent[m]
is present
17:02
se6ast1an
jan, as first time guest at the meeting today would you like to start?
17:03
se6ast1an
jan "schmoggie1" is working on the emount lens protocol communication sniffing/reverse engineering
17:04
se6ast1an
can you tell us a bit about what you have done already, what the current state is?
17:05
schmoggie1
thank you. as previously outlined, i did a protocol analyzer setup using logic analyser
17:05
schmoggie1
i've been contact with LexOptical
17:06
schmoggie1
what i did: - made about 30-40 traces from the lens and different positions when speaking nex7 <-> lens
17:06
BAndiT1983
https://www.lexoptical.com/
17:06
schmoggie1
and working my way thru in proramming arduino code until my teensy arrives.as the current code is more or less the other way round
17:07
schmoggie1
e.g. it is emulating a lens and not a body.
17:07
schmoggie1
but we want to emulate the body, so it's definitely a bit trickier.
17:07
Bertl
so you have connected the aduino/teensy to the camera/lens?
17:08
anuejn
is here
17:08
schmoggie1
code is not on github yet, once i have first successful tests i will do that.
17:08
schmoggie1
also i am working on the pin definitios and measurements so that apertus team knows what we need for the active e-mount adapter
17:09
schmoggie1
question from my side: can we in parallel approach to get the sony e developer docs ? or was that tried already.
17:09
schmoggie1
so far from my side
17:10
se6ast1an
please specify what the "sony e developer docs" are
17:10
schmoggie1
Bantit: https://github.com/LexOptical/E-Mount/blob/master/E-Mount.ino
17:11
schmoggie1
Bertl: i did not yet get the lens connect to the teensy in lack of them. but i ordered one at reichle and its here asap
17:11
Bertl
I'm mostly curious how you addressed (or plan to address) the 3.1V interface
17:12
schmoggie1
se6ast1an: those: https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201102/11-018E/
17:12
BAndiT1983
problem would be to use the info from Sony, as it's still NDA
17:13
se6ast1an
"These basic specifications will be disclosed to manufactures of lenses and mount adaptors following a predefined process of approval and the signing a license agreement with Sony."
17:13
se6ast1an
that will most likely conflict with open sourcing anything
17:13
Bertl
but it probably doesn't hurt to ask ...
17:13
se6ast1an
sure, we can try
17:14
se6ast1an
There will not be any license fees required for the license. However, a part of expenses related to distribution of the Basic Specifications will be charged to the applicant.
17:14
se6ast1an
The Basic Specifications will be disclosed to legal entities which satisfy the qualification criteria predefined by Sony. The qualification criteria will be disclosed after Sonyâs approval to the Non-Disclosure Agreement applied by the legal entities.
17:15
se6ast1an
You may use the Basic Specifications for lenses and/or mount adopters to mount to Sonyâs E-mount Interchangeable Lens Digital Camera only *2 , NOT for manufacturing, selling or otherwise disposing of other products.
17:15
BAndiT1983
sounds like jumping through the hoops
17:15
se6ast1an
I d say the chances of us doing and getting all that is 0.1%
17:15
Bertl
it was 9 years ago, a lot might have changed
17:16
schmoggie1
Bertl: the 3.1V interface is on pin 5. my plan is do have a switchable relay and generate the 3.1V by downconverting that from 5V
17:16
BAndiT1983
Bertl is rather confident today :)
17:17
Bertl
schmoggie1: we should talk about that later :)
17:17
BAndiT1983
why is no LM7831 there? ;)
17:17
schmoggie1
have a power meter connected and trying different lenses to see how much mA is needed
17:17
Bertl
BAndiT1983: you mean LM7803.1 :)
17:18
BAndiT1983
probably
17:19
BAndiT1983
as this one has 3.3 it can easily be adjusted -> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/526
17:19
schmoggie1
https://www.ebay.de/itm/DC-DC-Buck-Converter-Adjustable-Mini-Step-Down-Module-1-5V-3V-3-3V-5V-9V-12V-3A-/322427170361?nma=true&si=EAOH%252BYqVfoxCSF2Li%252F6sqyAfEC4%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
17:19
BAndiT1983
and not even mentioning the adjustable ones, which are set by resistora, but don't remember the name
17:19
Bertl
well, there are better options than this and/or relays
17:20
BAndiT1983
you are the expert, have created my last board 12 years ago
17:20
schmoggie1
ideally a fixed voltage controllable there
17:20
se6ast1an
thanks schmoggie1, what are the next steps beside hooking up the teensy and discussing the power supply solution?
17:20
schmoggie1
as we need to switch the power on/off
17:20
schmoggie1
getting the inited
17:20
schmoggie1
next steps:
17:20
daFred
joined the channel
17:21
schmoggie1
next steps: - getting code for body emulation ,
17:21
schmoggie1
- voltage generation
17:21
schmoggie1
- first tests as emulating body
17:22
schmoggie1
- in parallel the logic analyzer to compare both traces
17:25
se6ast1an
great, anything else to add?
17:28
se6ast1an
BAndiT1983: please share your progress
17:28
BAndiT1983
alright
17:28
BAndiT1983
last week main focus was on the remote, we have to prepare some things for gsoc, but also get some progress there
17:29
BAndiT1983
several bugs were discovered and fixed, new ones appeared as well ;) but all in all it's working great
17:29
BAndiT1983
visualiser was straightened out and zooming was added for closer inspection of what the display is showing
17:30
BAndiT1983
also debug painter was added to assist when placing elements in the UI, but it has a slight bug regarding inheritance from the painter
17:30
Bertl
so there will be a debug debug painter? *G*
17:31
BAndiT1983
next steps will involved USB communication and retrieving the framebuffer data, so visualiser will work as remote control for the axiom remote, which would allow to use real hardware through SSH
17:31
BAndiT1983
yep, already started the debug session of debug painter in vscode :)
17:32
BAndiT1983
another app will simulate the axiom beta, so the developers can focus on processing the received data and sending commands
17:32
BAndiT1983
we've also reactivated "forgotten" features ;)
17:33
Bertl
Axiom Beta simulation with QEMU?
17:33
BAndiT1983
that would be it for now, trying to discuss more in the main channel, so it lives up a bit
17:33
BAndiT1983
this would be too much for simple development, but also a step
17:33
BAndiT1983
ah, and it was suggested to convert the visualizer to a webpage with emscripten, so we have a showcase for people which are not involved in development
17:34
se6ast1an
most things are reflected already in the AXIOM Remote workboard: https://lab.apertus.org/project/view/18/
17:35
se6ast1an
thanks BAndiT1983, done?
17:36
se6ast1an
metal_dent[m]: would you like to continue as we are with the axiom remote topic already?
17:36
metal_dent[m]
sure!
17:37
metal_dent[m]
as usual not much to report, last week fixed the center align bug in the visualizer and presented on the AXIOM Beta and Remote as a part of gsoc challenge
17:38
metal_dent[m]
currently I'm working on the T1175 issue related to the fonts
17:38
Bertl
very nice presentation I have to say :)
17:38
se6ast1an
metal_dent[m]: please claim the labtask if you started working on it already
17:38
metal_dent[m]
Bertl: thank you :D
17:39
se6ast1an
Bertl: please share what the "presentations" are for new listeners
17:39
bluez_[m]
Bertl: Thanks!
17:39
metal_dent[m]
se6ast1an: I'm not working alone, doing it with BAndiT1983
17:39
se6ast1an
then decide who wants to claim it of you two
17:39
BAndiT1983
you can still claim it
17:40
metal_dent[m]
alright, will do it then :)
17:40
se6ast1an
but if its unclaimed it might inspire someone else to work on it and then people will do the work twice
17:40
metal_dent[m]
ah yes, also working on T1172!
17:41
metal_dent[m]
I've designed the icons for the visualizer sidebar
17:41
se6ast1an
ah, great, can you share already?
17:41
metal_dent[m]
I've uploaded in my fork
17:42
se6ast1an
url please, we are all lazy here
17:42
metal_dent[m]
url -> https://github.com/MetalDent/AXIOM-Remote/tree/dev/Firmware/Media/Images/SideBar
17:43
metal_dent[m]
please suggest any needed changes :)
17:43
se6ast1an
great!
17:43
se6ast1an
looks good
17:44
se6ast1an
anything to add?
17:44
BAndiT1983
but the background should not be there, as the buttons are providing the shape, so it should be transparent or fully white, nothing rounded
17:44
metal_dent[m]
I did that as it was in the previous version
17:45
metal_dent[m]
https://lab.apertus.org/file/data/twf2epvgi3azygwwyphj/PHID-FILE-y36lcbvqjtxxzs22e3x7/20181122_150504_HDR.jpg
17:45
illwieckz
left the channel
17:46
BAndiT1983
yes, but this time we need it differently, as it will be handled centrally in the button
17:46
metal_dent[m]
okay, will remove it then
17:46
se6ast1an
maybe something to discuss after the meeting in detail
17:47
BAndiT1983
yep
17:47
se6ast1an
panintended: you here?
17:47
metal_dent[m]
okay!
17:47
se6ast1an
vup/anuejn anything new on the Micro front?
17:47
panintended
se6ast1an: yes :)
17:47
se6ast1an
great
17:48
se6ast1an
do you also want to give a brief intro, you did it before but now there are more people :)
17:51
se6ast1an
bluez_[m]: please share your progress
17:52
panintended
Sure (hi everyone, nice to meet you !). I'm a soft dev, with some hobby-level knowledge on electronics and hardware in general.
17:52
panintended
I'm hoping to be of help firstly with the new firmware (as it's accessible because of the visualiser) and down the line with other things like remote prototype assembly if needed.
17:53
bluez_[m]
<se6ast1an "bluez_: please share your progre"> sure!
17:54
panintended
I've looked at the board today, and at first I could go with some of the unclaimed tasks (like https://lab.apertus.org/T1173) or maybe work as a pair with someone else to make the onboarding/familiarizing a bit easier
17:54
Oscar
left the channel
17:54
panintended
I also opened https://lab.apertus.org/T1181 earlier today after consulting with se6ast1an
17:54
BAndiT1983
panintended: ask your questions anytime, reading also logs of this channel when not online
17:55
se6ast1an
http://irc.apertus.org/
17:55
panintended
sure!
17:55
se6ast1an
bluez_[m]: feel free to report in parallel, we can handle it :)
17:57
se6ast1an
ok to speed things up a bit
17:57
se6ast1an
Bertl: would you like report as well?
17:57
panintended
In case someone wants an extra hand, do get in touch. I'd gladly help out. (hmm I guess I should setup a IRC bouncer)
17:58
Bertl
se6ast1an: sure
17:58
se6ast1an
that would help yes
17:58
bluez_[m]
Alright! So, I don't have much to report. I was working mostly for the presentation of AXIOM Beta Main Board and AXIOM Remote as metal_dent mentioned. Other than that I've been reading more about my gsoc project. I looked into how JTAG works a bit more. Further, I will be working to learn more about the PIC16 JTAG bridge (as I've discussed with Bertl already).
17:59
bluez_[m]
That's it from my side! Thank you!
17:59
Oscar
joined the channel
17:59
se6ast1an
thanks bluez_[m], great!
17:59
Bertl
so to continue here ... I spent some time this week with the GSoC applicants with further preparations for GSoC
18:00
Bertl
part of that were mutual code reviews and two presentations about the Axiom Main Board and the Axiom Remote (and their connections, parts, etc)
18:00
illwieckz
joined the channel
18:01
Bertl
those slide presentations in PDF format should be also available soon after some cleanup and maybe after adding some pictures
18:01
Bertl
(the idea there is to help with unterstanding the rather complex conenctions there)
18:02
Bertl
I did some minor improvements on the probing setup but it's still not finished yet
18:02
Bertl
I also did a lot of rework and almost finished an Axiom Remot
18:03
Bertl
We have bulk waste removal today, so most of the weekend was 'wasted' (pun intended) on sorting stuff and moveing it around
18:03
BAndiT1983
the sperrmüll?
18:03
Bertl
I also spent some quality time on studying the Ultra96 which has some quite nifty design decisions
18:04
se6ast1an
ah yes please share some ultra96 insights!
18:04
Bertl
we haven't received any parts for testing yet, so it was mostly theoretical
18:05
Bertl
well, it seems like we have two PS MGTs directly available on the mini DP port
18:05
Bertl
and another one on the device USB connector
18:05
Bertl
as far as I understand, those can do up to 6GBit/s each (receive and transmit)
18:05
BAndiT1983
can you explain a bit, please, as this abbreviations are not that well known
18:06
Bertl
PS is the Processing System side of the UltraScale
18:06
Bertl
MGT is Multi Gigabit Tranceiver
18:06
Bertl
DP stands for Display Port
18:06
Bertl
USB I can probably skip :)
18:07
Bertl
so it looks like we could repurpose those for things like SATA 6G and PCIe
18:07
se6ast1an
or 4k hdmi
18:08
Bertl
nope, that won't work
18:08
se6ast1an
ah, ok
18:08
se6ast1an
requires 4 lanes?
18:08
Bertl
that and there doesn't seem to be any HDMI peripherial in the PS
18:08
se6ast1an
but displayport does video output no?
18:09
Bertl
so it would require utilizing the PL (FPGA fabric) which doesn't have MGTs on this specific UltraScale chip
18:09
Bertl
yes, DP is implemented as dual lane solution in and out
18:09
Bertl
what is also interesting is that we have a Mali GPU available in the Ultra96
18:10
Bertl
and the display port hardened IP can process two video streams and mix them together
18:10
BAndiT1983
is it some higher version of Mali with proper performance or cutdown one?
18:10
Bertl
it also provides DMA engines to fetch data, e.g. for overlay
18:11
Bertl
it is a Mali 400 GPU with minimal shaders/etc
18:12
Bertl
there also seems to be a quite nice PMIC system on the Ultra96 which already gave me some ideas for a future Power Board revision
18:12
Bertl
we have 13 or 14 LVDS lanes available on the high speed connector
18:13
Bertl
so it should be relatively easy to connect it directly to a dual plugin slot on the Axiom Beta
18:13
Bertl
but I guess we will know more once we start testing this device
18:13
se6ast1an
amazon order should arrive any day now
18:13
se6ast1an
with the fast pcie ssd
18:14
se6ast1an
any news on the probing project?
18:14
Bertl
as I said, not much
18:15
se6ast1an
ah sorry, right
18:15
se6ast1an
anything else?
18:15
Bertl
I've also been digging out the test boards for the SD emulation
18:15
Bertl
and there are some new boards and options we devieloped since, so I plan to redo some of those tests after anuejn/vup reported that they got rid of the FSBL
18:16
Bertl
so we should have some ideas there as well
18:16
Bertl
finally I've spent a good amount of time going through the GSoC applications so we can request our slots
18:16
Bertl
that's it from my side
18:17
se6ast1an
thanks!
18:17
se6ast1an
vup & anuejn you here now?
18:17
se6ast1an
or does anyone else still want to share?
18:18
se6ast1an
quick update from my side: mostly AXIOM Remote related tasks recently, not really anything to add to that other than what was already said
18:18
se6ast1an
I have also done conference calls/video chats with several film makers asking for feedback/ideas for the AXIOM Beta CP rig/accessories
18:18
panintended
Guys I noticed you mentioned the Ultra96. Do you know that you can get in touch with the 96Boards team if needed? They also have a weekly online meetup (https://www.96boards.org/openhours/)
18:18
se6ast1an
and will incorporate their input into the design soon
18:19
se6ast1an
panintended: you also mentioned CAD and ergonomics so help there would be greatly appreciated
18:19
Bertl
panintended: didn't know, thanks for the input!
18:20
se6ast1an
very nice indeed
18:20
se6ast1an
pcb quote requests slowly progressing
18:20
se6ast1an
500$ for 5 panels seems to be realistic for our stackup from asia
18:21
se6ast1an
very nice, I didnt know there are that many similar 96 boards: https://www.96boards.org/products/ce/
18:22
panintended
se6ast1an: yes, actually it's a specification :)
18:22
se6ast1an
amazynq!
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BAndiT1983
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18:22
se6ast1an
ok, many thanks everyone, meeting concluded!
18:23
Bertl
schmoggie1: we should chat about the electronics side, when would be a good time for you?
18:24
schmoggie1
tomorroe after 15:00 ?
18:25
Bertl
sound good to me!
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Bertl
off for now ... bbl
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se6ast1an
off to bed, good night
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