Current Server Time: 09:27 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2013/11/19

Timezone: UTC


23:58
aombk
anybody knows any live video streaming solution for a linux server?
00:09
Bertl
there are a number of server solutions for linux
00:11
Bertl
the question is more what you consider live video
00:13
Bertl
VLC for example can act as a live stream server
00:18
Sasha_C
joined the channel
00:19
Bertl
wb Sasha_C!
00:24
intracube
left the channel
00:28
aombk
Bertl: i would like to do live video and audio streaming from a windows machine to a linux server and from there to the internets
00:28
Bertl
so restreaming then?
00:29
aombk
yes
00:30
aombk
i already have working icecast setup and i stream audio. it says it can do video. but i dont know how
00:30
Bertl
yeah, I was going to suggest icecast or some apache/php solution for that
00:34
aombk
it seems i am stuck with justing.tv service for now
00:34
aombk
here it is if you are interested
00:34
aombk
http://aombk.attinom.net/otr/hive/
00:36
aombk
do you experience drops?
00:46
Bertl
sorry, lynx is all I have available atm
00:48
aombk
heh. nice. ok no problem
01:09
FergusL
wow, I'm curious Bertl, tty-only computer ?
01:17
Bertl
atm, I'm in the basement, working on the lens mount
01:18
Bertl
and all I have there is a terminal, which works fine for most purposes, like IRC, mail, browsing(text)
01:19
FergusL
indeed, yes
01:19
FergusL
what kind of device ?
01:20
Bertl
a vt330
01:28
aombk
they dont build them like they used to :P
01:30
Bertl
yeah, I planned to replace it with a raspberry pi, but that project got on hold when I couldn't find a proper monitor/screen for this environment
01:44
FergusL
I bought a cheap analog video 3.5" screen for my cubieboard (~= raspberry pi) and a bluetooth kb
02:09
Bertl
http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/lens_mount_POM01.png
02:09
Bertl
http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/lens_mount_POM02.png
03:47
FergusL
Bertl: nice !
03:48
FergusL
for me it's sleep, now ! later
05:08
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
05:13
Sasha_C
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06:23
Sasha_C
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06:33
aombk_
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06:33
aombk
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07:07
PhilippeJ
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07:54
se6astian
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07:54
se6astian
morning
07:55
Sasha_C
good morning Se6astian.
07:55
dmj_nova
morning
07:55
Sasha_C
How are you today?
07:58
dmj_nova
se6astian: if you see mikkael, have him ping me
08:11
se6astian
good good
08:11
se6astian
micheal green?
08:14
PhilippeJ
morning everyone
08:15
Sasha_C
Good morning Philippe
08:15
PhilippeJ
well, "morning"
08:15
PhilippeJ
gmt+1 - centric :-)
08:15
Sasha_C
It's 8pm here in Sydney ;)
08:16
se6astian
and summer :)
08:17
Sasha_C
It'll be Summer as of December 1st
08:18
Sasha_C
But, yes the weather is already getting warmer :)
08:19
Sasha_C
Hey Sebastian, Bertl told me earlier today that lens mount has been installed and a higher grade CMV12000 is now in your / his possession. Fantastic news man!
08:25
se6astian
great!
08:40
Sasha_C
From our conversation earlier today: Bertl: great, thanks! we got the new lens mounts (still have to upload a picture) and the new sensor from cmosis
08:40
Sasha_C
[10:27am] Sasha_C: Congratulations! So the lens is firmly fixed to the main body now?
08:40
Sasha_C
[10:28am] Bertl: not much changed in this regard, the only difference is the material and a few adjustments to match the sensor better
08:40
Sasha_C
[10:29am] Bertl: but it means, that we will soon have a fully working alpha prototype which can almost be used like a normal camera
08:40
Sasha_C
[10:30am] Bertl: (should be ready end of the week if all goes well)
08:46
se6astian
I just ordered a screw tap that will arrove at the beginning of next week
08:46
se6astian
so end of the week for most parts
09:01
PhilippeJ
exciting days !
09:18
se6astian
PhilippeJ, would you have a bit of time now so we can start writing the website content now?
09:20
PhilippeJ
se6astian, not right now, later this day might be
09:20
PhilippeJ
I'll follow anything on this chat along the day, but I have a meeting right now
09:22
se6astian
ok
10:28
PhilippeJ
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10:45
PhilippeJ
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10:57
se6astian
just had a skype call with a stereographer in Berlin to draft the basic requirements for stereo3d recording
10:57
se6astian
https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php?title=Stereo_3D_Requirements
11:34
aombk
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11:34
aombk
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11:34
aombk
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aombk_
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11:49
leo_m
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12:11
PhilippeJ
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12:13
aombk
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12:35
PhilippeJ
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13:06
Bertl
morning everyone!
13:07
Sasha_C
Morning Bertl. Hope you had a good sleep
13:10
Bertl
yes, thanks, slept quite well .. how was your day?
13:12
Bertl
did you see the images of the 'new' lens mount?
13:13
Sasha_C
Glad to hear that. My day's been good, but I'm just about to go to sleep now
13:13
Sasha_C
No, can you provide a link(s)?
13:14
Bertl
http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/lens_mount_POM01.png
13:14
Bertl
http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/lens_mount_POM02.png
13:15
Sasha_C
Looks nice! Is that a matte black paint finish, or is the lens mount material black to begin with?
13:16
Bertl
it is black POM
13:17
Bertl
looks sexy, doesn't it? :)
13:18
Sasha_C
Yeah, it's great. But it'll look a little funny when it's attached to a transparent plastic camera case
13:19
Sasha_C
?
13:20
Sasha_C
I was referring to the prototype enclosure: https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/alpha_enclosure.jpg
13:20
Bertl
would be the same with the aluminum mount
13:20
Sasha_C
My bad, ignore me. I should really go to sleep now
13:20
Bertl
but the case will get a few minor adjustments anyway
13:23
Sasha_C
Even though it's only the prototype, I'm sure everything will look great when it all comes together!
13:23
Bertl
I definitely hope so
13:24
Sasha_C
Now, unfortunately I have to go :(
13:24
Sasha_C
left the channel
13:46
se6astian
morning Bertl, very nice!
13:49
se6astian
does the new lensmount still fit the sensor? :)
13:49
se6astian
after the adjustments to the "window" I made?
13:51
Bertl
yes, that was actually the first thing I tried
13:51
se6astian
hurray :)
13:52
Bertl
(before I started to cut the threads and attach the bayonet ring
13:52
Bertl
)
13:53
Bertl
I had to extend the 'upper' tap drills to 1.5mm, but that wasn't a big deal, what diameter do they have in the design files?
13:53
se6astian
"upp"er are the ones for the mount ring?
13:54
Bertl
yup
13:54
Bertl
for me that is up, because the lens mount sits on the almost flat zedboard :)
13:56
se6astian
those should be 1.5mm exactly
14:02
Bertl
ah, okay, so that wasn't according to specification then
14:02
Bertl
because they were like 1.4 or so, I will measure them on one of the other pieces
14:03
se6astian
interesting.. well better too small than too big...
14:07
PhilippeJ
Just sent a mail to dev, I hope it will spark some discussions :-)
14:13
se6astian
great, will read and reply soon
14:16
FergusL
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14:22
FergusL
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14:23
se6astian
more irc log progress: https://www.apertus.org/irc/index.php?day=01&month=11&year=2013
14:26
se6astian
meeting a new potential community member in real life now
14:26
se6astian
see you
14:26
se6astian
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14:52
jucar1
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14:58
jucar
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15:05
PhilippeJ
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15:22
intracube
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17:05
se6astian
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17:06
se6astian
back
17:17
mars_
wb
17:53
se6astian
thx :)
17:54
se6astian
our bitcoin donation doubled its value :)
17:54
mars_
bitcoin hype!
18:46
troy_s
se6astian: On 3D camera support, another +1 to your estimation.
18:47
troy_s
se6astian: Also bear in mind that a 3D camera design (smaller body, etc.) ends up pulling against the design of a cinema camera (longer body for handheld, etc)
18:47
Bertl
yeah, I have a 3D capable monitor sitting here and every now and then I get myself to actually use it in 3D, but the technology is just too clumsy atm
18:48
se6astian
our head is currently planned to be 8x8x8 cm - for a cinema camera thats very small, for a s3d camera 8cm is far too much for a side by side rig
18:49
troy_s
se6astian: Ignore 3D. You have a monumental task as it is without extra crap burden.
18:50
Bertl
yes, we cannot make a one fits all solution anyway
18:50
troy_s
se6astian: Regarding that size, an accessory should be considered for mounting into a rod mounting / handheld design etc.
18:50
troy_s
Bertl: Say that again. And again. And again.
18:50
Bertl
:)
18:51
Bertl
OTOH, we won't keep the 3D folks from using our product, if they consider it useable :)
18:51
troy_s
Bertl: Design doesn't damn well exist on an axis of more or less features. Every single feature or design nuance necessarily pulls away or toward a given set of audience needs / hates.
18:52
Bertl
agreed, and similar is true from the technical PoV
18:52
troy_s
Bertl: Moot point. Hack away. Just such a tremendously challenging target as it stands, let alone without tacking on more needs that pull away from the original audience.
18:52
Bertl
i.e. every technical feature we add, brings some kind of drawback/potential problem as well
18:52
troy_s
Hell yes.
19:04
se6astian
ad handheld operation and rods: see top image of: https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/axiom-modules-06.jpg
19:15
dmj_nova
se6astian: well, there's always the mirror 3d rigs
19:15
dmj_nova
I built one without realizing it a while back
19:17
dmj_nova
also: mirror, based 3D rigs can be used for multifocal videography
19:19
rexbron
SxS 3D is unuseable anyway for feature shooting. You need complete control of IA.
19:20
rexbron
se6astian: I'm not trying to be insulting, have you ever operated a larger handheld camera?
19:21
dmj_nova
rexbron: IA?
19:22
[1]se6astian
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19:22
rexbron
se6astian: Also, Red has patented their inverted v lock module system in the US. Not sure how over reaching the application is. If it even extends to camera modules in general
19:22
rexbron
dmj_nova: InterAxial, also know as Inter Ocular distance
19:23
dmj_nova
ah, inter ocular
19:23
dmj_nova
yeah
19:23
dmj_nova
I made my rig for zero inter ocular distance
19:23
dmj_nova
but then operated the focus of my cameras separately
19:24
dmj_nova
fair warning: such things can disturb viewers
19:24
se6astian
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19:24
[1]se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian
19:25
rexbron
se6astian: http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2012/10/why-a-shouldercam-should-be-heavy/
19:25
rexbron
Small camera head and cinematic handheld are at odds with eachother
19:25
rexbron
In fact, even calling it a 'head' puts it at odds.
19:25
dmj_nova
rexbron: well, there are many ways to make an over the shoulder camera heavy
19:26
rexbron
dmj_nova: you shouldn't have to.
19:26
rexbron
I frankensteined a BMCC rig
19:26
rexbron
it works
19:26
rexbron
ok
19:26
rexbron
just ok
19:26
rexbron
A design that actually takes in to account the human body beats the pants off it for useability
19:26
se6astian
sorry, gotta leave now, could you summarize your points on the wiki?
19:26
rexbron
se6astian: sure
19:27
dmj_nova
rexbron: well, yes. I'm not saying that one shouldn't design with ergonomics (heavy, body-fitting) foremost
19:28
rexbron
dmj_nova: but electrical engineers design for whats easist for them. The BMCC is case in point.
19:28
dmj_nova
just expressing that the electronics themselves will likely fit in a much smaller case for the minimal set
19:28
rexbron
dmj_nova: I'm against a one camera size fits all approach that having a small camera entails. The fact that you can build it up is at best a stop gap.
19:29
dmj_nova
how you make that heavy and balanced could mean mounting the solid state drives somewhere else, or putting lead weights in the right spot
19:29
rexbron
the miniturization of cameras has been driven by enginerring
19:29
rexbron
the same economics that drive process node shrinks
19:29
rexbron
same or better performance, less input costs
19:30
rexbron
we're reached a point, a few years back actually, that the only motion picture cameras that take into account the human body cost more than $80k usd for a body, no accesories
19:32
rexbron
dmj_nova: I'm tired of rigging. I did that for the BMCC and it's expensive for what it is. I'd rather see a camera that actually has it's audience in mind when it's designed.
19:32
rexbron
A professional audience, I should say
19:32
rexbron
the BMCC design was guided by two people, admited to publicly, Grant Petty and John Brawley.
19:33
rexbron
In Grant's case, he stated in an interview he wanted 5D that did motion better. The body is designed to be held like a DSLR, except no viewfind to stablize it. It's decently heavy to be holding infront of you for long periods of time.
19:34
rexbron
In John's case, hea already DPs big austrailian TV show. He has the Alexa or Epic when ever he wanted. He wanted a camera that was small.
19:35
rexbron
there is a place for small cameras
19:35
rexbron
but also along side ones designed for ergonomics
19:35
rexbron
which one is Axiom trying to be? It can't be both.
19:37
Bertl
nobody says that small cameras cannot be ergonomic
19:38
Bertl
but when the question is ergonomics vs. size, I'd go for the ergonomics
19:38
rexbron
Bertl: Camera operators do. The people who actually have to use them, day in day out
19:38
Bertl
a completely different aspect, which is often ignored are the technical requirements
19:41
rexbron
Bertl: but what about the ergonomics vs. size vs. cost. It's the cost that gets people
19:42
rexbron
we've come to expect a lot when it comes to performace per dollar. The semiconducter industry entire economic model is about getting more for less.
19:42
Bertl
usually ergonomics as well as size are negatively correlated with cost :)
19:44
Bertl
don't forget, with semiconductors the smaller is better part only comes with the huge amount of units produced
19:44
Bertl
a 25nm chip costs a lot more than the same chip at 50nm technology
19:44
rexbron
I guess my point is there are a lot of small cameras out there that offer much of what Axiom does now. What does Axiom do that I don't have already?
19:45
rexbron
Leaving aside the open source idology, the main thing that attracts me to this project is the chance to offer input on the design of the body
19:45
Bertl
on the of the main points of axiom (and that's why I'm here in the first place) is the open design
19:45
rexbron
a chance to fix all the annoyances that plauge my professional live
19:45
rexbron
Bertl: but is that it? Is that the only thing that sets Axiom apart?
19:45
rexbron
s/live/life
19:45
Bertl
that might not be something which is appealing to you, but thats a major point for me (and many others)
19:46
Bertl
for example, I do not have any use for the ultimate high end camera, if I cannot get it to do what I want
19:46
rexbron
Bertl: What do you want? A hobby project or a tool to be used?
19:47
rexbron
I'm sorry if I'm coming off as harsh
19:47
Bertl
my use cases are quite different from yours, as I'm not really interested in making movies
19:47
rexbron
I do not mean to
19:47
Bertl
nah, that's fine, I hate dancing around
19:48
rexbron
Bertl: You and I have very different use cases and needs
19:48
Bertl
so probably the overlap in my and your camera needs and applications is almost zero
19:48
rexbron
you want something to tinker with, I want something that works and if I can fix something I don't like, bonus
19:49
rexbron
Bertl: very likely. What is your profession?
19:49
Bertl
maybe let me give you an example
19:49
Bertl
(I'm an IT consultant specialized on virtualization and embedded systems)
19:49
Bertl
there is windows, mac-os and linux out there
19:50
Bertl
the majority will go for windows, then there are the folks who prefer that it just works (not knowing why or how), which will go with the mac
19:51
Bertl
and then there are the folks who want to have something they know exactly why and how it works
19:51
Bertl
I'm a linux user, I'd say you might be an apple person
19:51
rexbron
Bertl: I actually run all 3 :)
19:52
rexbron
I do most of my pro work on Windows and Linux, the mac is left over from earlier in my life
19:52
Bertl
so maybe you're not sure yet :)
19:53
Bertl
the thing with microsoft and apple products (in most cases) is that if you find something annoying or something missing, you usually have only one option
19:53
Bertl
file a bug report, and wait for somebody at the company to fix it
19:54
Bertl
when I find something annoying or missing, I simply fix it
19:55
Bertl
something I can't do on windows or apple (in most cases)
19:56
Bertl
now how does that apply to axiom
19:57
Bertl
if somebody just wants to use it, then it should be like ubuntu, i.e. colorful, easy to handle
19:57
Bertl
if somebody wants to adapt, extend or improve it in some/any way, it should allow that with minimal efford
20:03
Bertl
doesn't mean that it can't be ergonomic and/or provide excellent performance and really comfy interfaces/gui
20:05
Bertl
so maybe axiom will be for you and maybe it won't, in any case, your input will be valuable and if it makes sense (to us) we will also listen and consider it carefully
20:37
FergusL
rexbron: was it you wanting to help on profiling the sensor ?
20:37
rexbron
troy_s and I. He is more knowledgeable
20:38
philippejadin
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20:38
FergusL
also I think you asked for my code
20:41
philippejadin
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20:47
dmj_nova
rexbron: I'm back
20:47
Bertl
wb
20:49
dmj_nova
I guess, what I'm saying is that technologically it is very possible to build a device that has a "core" that is quite small, and a single body unit that is designed exactly as you suggest.
20:50
dmj_nova
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the big issue with the BMCC and DSLR rigs is that they are complex, made of lots of parts to deal with (taking time) and don't function as a cohesive unit
20:50
dmj_nova
it's a bunch of tiny components trying to be part of a bigger accessory ecosystem
20:51
dmj_nova
rather than a single unit that just works
20:54
dmj_nova
Bertl: Part of the problem with saying "open source is good because the user can just fix it" is that many users can't fix it themselves.
20:55
Bertl
still they have the option to hire somebody to fix it for them
20:55
dmj_nova
that said, open source allows a group of motivated engineers to adapt it for that group who isn't being well served
20:55
Bertl
(which is not the case with proprietary products)
20:56
dmj_nova
So part of our job is to listen, and try to make something that will work.
20:57
Bertl
I completely agree there, but that's orthogonal
20:58
Bertl
i.e. we will never be able to compete with each and every commercial product out there in all areas
20:58
Bertl
but I also think that is not what we really want to in the first place
20:59
dmj_nova
rexbron: personally, one major part of what interests me in AXIOM is the ability to have a small, lightweight core component. It's nearly impossible to build an affordable motion control rig for a 45 pound device. Of course such a rig wouldn't be shoulder mounted anyway.
20:59
dmj_nova
Bertl: We can't be all things to all people
20:59
dmj_nova
but we should be a very, very good tool for somebody
21:04
dmj_nova
Bertl: I'm assuming we'll need the SSD controller board very near to the FPGA PCB, yes?
21:04
dmj_nova
because of the high data rate?
21:06
Bertl
depends on the design
21:06
Bertl
sata cables do well for 20-50cm
21:06
dmj_nova
okay, that would be enough to store the drives behind the shoulder
21:07
dmj_nova
(for weight balancing)
21:09
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se6astian
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[1]se6astian
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21:18
se6astian
night night
21:18
se6astian
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21:19
Bertl
for example, similar could be done with the battery, as long as it distance is not too far
21:20
Bertl
because high power means large diameter cables or loss on energy transport
21:29
dmj_nova
Bertl: that doesn't sound like a problem for a "heavy cinema" unit
21:30
Bertl
yeah, well, moving the battery far away from the rest has mostly drawbacks, little advantage
21:48
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21:49
Sasha_C
Good morning everyone
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leo_m
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intracube
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22:41
dmj_nova
evening Sasha_C