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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2018/11/17

Timezone: UTC


00:23
davidak
joined the channel
00:25
davidak
RexOrCine se6astian the "latest news" is actually just a copy of an old article, but with broken layout https://www.apertus.org/
00:28
davidak
also, i will probably not find time soon to review the 2 proposals, so don't wait for my feedback
01:02
davidak
left the channel
02:29
Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
02:29
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
05:17
BAndiT1983|away
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06:47
BAndiT1983
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06:50
BAndiT1983|away
changed nick to: BAndiT1983
06:57
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
07:01
se6astian
thanks davidak[m], fixed
08:36
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
08:36
Bertl
morning folks!
08:38
niemand
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08:43
RexOrCine|away
changed nick to: RexOrCine
08:44
niemand
left the channel
09:04
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
09:15
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
09:15
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
09:53
niemand
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11:55
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
12:03
BAndiT1983
changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
12:03
aombk
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12:24
aombk
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13:29
danieel
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14:20
niteesh
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14:53
DanielCS
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14:54
se6astian
hi DanielCS!
14:54
DanielCS
Hello! how are you today?
14:55
se6astian
good good, you?
14:55
DanielCS
Also good, thank you.
14:55
DanielCS
I saw the picture of the plugin module you sent
14:56
DanielCS
Is the idea to have these boards fully enclosed?
14:59
se6astian
well there are 2 kinds of plugin modules
14:59
se6astian
ones that are short enough so the AXIOM Beta Compact enclosure already covers top and bottom side
14:59
se6astian
and ones that are longer and stick out of the AXIOM Beta Compact enclosure
15:00
se6astian
if you look into onshape the "AXIOM Beta Full Enclosure for Drawing" Assembly
15:01
DanielCS
Are there any shorter modules that use both slots?
15:01
se6astian
not yet, but its possible
15:01
se6astian
actually we already have one
15:01
se6astian
the tripple pmod plugin module
15:02
DanielCS
https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/AXIOM_Beta/Camera_Structure#Plugin_Modules_and_Shields
15:02
DanielCS
second on the list?
15:02
se6astian
3x PMOD Plugin Module
15:02
se6astian
yes
15:03
DanielCS
Gotcha. And I see in the onshape the casings
15:04
se6astian
that should also be the same part I 3d printed and emailed you the picture earlier toda
15:05
se6astian
the enclosure allows around 12.5mm more length for such modules
15:05
se6astian
but then a hole at the top/bottom will be exposed
15:05
se6astian
if it gets any longer
15:05
se6astian
you see what I mean?
15:06
DanielCS
Let me load up my copy so I can edit and move it around.
15:07
niteesh
left the channel
15:07
DanielCS
I see
15:08
niteesh
joined the channel
15:09
se6astian
so any longer module needs a more complex designed cartridge enclosure
15:09
se6astian
for top/bottom sides as well as the left side
15:09
se6astian
a two part assembly at least
15:10
DanielCS
That makes sense
15:10
se6astian
as explained in the email I actually think that covering top/bottom/left side not all the way in but only starting where the compact enclosure ends would make everything much simpler for us (because of the tight spaces)
15:10
DanielCS
And I'm designing based off the existing boards?
15:11
DanielCS
I see what you mean
15:11
se6astian
yes you can use the single HDMI plugin module base design in use currently
15:11
se6astian
and just make it longer towards the back
15:11
se6astian
just add 40mm or so for the first concept
15:12
se6astian
I will give you edit access to the main doc now in version 8
15:12
se6astian
then we do not need to transfer/merge parts/assemblies from different documents
15:12
DanielCS
Okay, excellent.
15:13
DanielCS
Also I think some of my last project didn't transfer over. I can try to re-import that.
15:15
DanielCS
So is the +40mm board the dimensions of the new 4K HDMI plugin module?
15:17
se6astian
sure, please move all your changes/additions into V08
15:17
se6astian
is your oneshape user your gmail email address?
15:18
DanielCS
Here it is: daniel_sinclair
15:19
se6astian
hmm onshape doesnt seem to be able to find you
15:19
DanielCS
perhaps try a space instead of the underscore?
15:20
se6astian
DanielCS: So is the +40mm board the dimensions of the new 4K HDMI plugin module? <- that module does not exist yet
15:20
se6astian
but you can use the SDI module as reference if you want: https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/SDI_Plugin_Module
15:20
se6astian
DanielCS: perhaps try a space instead of the underscore? doesnt seem to work
15:21
se6astian
it accepted your gmail address though
15:21
DanielCS
Oh good!
15:22
intrac_
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15:22
intrac
left the channel
15:23
DanielCS
the 4K 60fps one?
15:23
se6astian
dual 6g sdi
15:24
DanielCS
Gotcha.
15:24
se6astian
felix_: will provide the dimensions of the new PCB
15:25
se6astian
but the actual length should make no difference for the design (should be parametric)
15:25
se6astian
have you use a variable yet in onshape?
15:25
se6astian
https://cad.onshape.com/help/Content/variable.htm
15:25
DanielCS
Great!
15:26
se6astian
the module length should definitely be a variable
15:26
DanielCS
Oh I have not! That looks to be super useful
15:26
se6astian
it is :)
15:26
DanielCS
I've just been using dimensions until now.
15:27
DanielCS
So how about the cutouts at the rear of the module>
15:27
se6astian
well for most lengths dimensions are the way to go
15:28
se6astian
cutouts at the rear of the module should be possible but I would just leave a plain surface for now
15:28
se6astian
do think about connectors on pcbs though and the way the PCB is put into the plugin module enclosure at assembly
15:28
DanielCS
Alright.
15:29
se6astian
so there is nothing in the way when sliding/screwing it in
15:29
DanielCS
How is the plugin locked into the camera body?
15:29
se6astian
there is a screwknob on the right side
15:30
se6astian
looks similar to this: https://live-katalog.ganter-griff.de/catalog-images/ganter/e23ebeb0-f0f6-448f-840e-369710e735d9/DIN-464-Hohe-Raendelschrauben-Edelstahl.jpg
15:30
DanielCS
And a threaded hole on the module case?
15:31
se6astian
exactly
15:33
DanielCS
Are these ultimately to be CNC milled parts?
15:34
se6astian
yes
15:36
se6astian
can you check please if the gmail invite worked
15:36
se6astian
if you have edit access to the document now
15:36
se6astian
ah I think I see you as active user already
15:36
se6astian
great!
15:36
DanielCS
It worked!
15:37
se6astian
perfect
15:37
DanielCS
And you'd like me to work in the "for drawing" one?
15:38
se6astian
if you can fix the orientation issues of the "Main" assembly you can use that one as well
15:38
se6astian
but the "for drawing" should be similar - I think it doesnt contain the shell which makes no difference for this...
15:38
DanielCS
Okay. What is the reason for having the two different pages?
15:40
se6astian
I seem to needed one version "for a drawing" somehow
15:41
DanielCS
Ah.
15:42
DanielCS
Now for these boards, how far will the longest stick past the entire camera body?
15:44
se6astian
how do yo mean?
15:45
DanielCS
The SDI board for example, when inserted, does it stick out past the back of the camera?
15:45
se6astian
yes
15:46
DanielCS
How far past?
15:46
se6astian
sebastian: felix_: will provide the dimensions of the new PCB
15:46
se6astian
I will go next door and ask him :)
15:46
DanielCS
Okay haha. Send my regards.
15:47
niteesh_
joined the channel
15:48
felix_
se6astian just measured the dimensions of the module: length with pcie connector: 62.5mm and without pcie connector: 54.3mm
15:51
niteesh
left the channel
15:51
niteesh_
changed nick to: niteesh
15:53
DanielCS
Thank you! Hmm, that does stick out a bit.
15:54
se6astian
yes
15:55
se6astian
any further questions or anything still unclear?
15:55
se6astian
cause I need to get to the kitchen and start cooking :)
15:58
DanielCS
Of course, I think I'm good to start. I'll do a variable length single connector and a variable length double connector.
15:58
DanielCS
Thank you!
16:12
se6astian
My arse has fallen out. Be back later.
16:14
felix_
from the end of the pcb to where the metal should be is a distance of maybe 2mm, since the conector isn't infinitesimal thin
16:15
felix_
the lenght of the sata module might also be a bit different than the sdi module, but probably not much shorter
16:20
DanielCS
I see. I'll get cracking then.
17:04
BAndiT1983|away
changed nick to: BAndiT1983
17:08
Spirit532
felix_, it's going to be dual sata, right?
17:09
niteesh
left the channel
17:09
BAndiT1983
changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
17:45
se6astian
dual 6g sdi would correspond to dual sata3 (6g) I assume in terms of bandwidth
17:46
RexOrCine
changed nick to: RexOrCine|away
17:46
se6astian
off from the office
17:46
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
18:04
Spirit532
it would be handy to just have two hotswap 2.5" SSD docks
18:05
Spirit532
the only issue is - I've quoted basically all of China for suppliers, and I found.. three
18:05
Spirit532
and all of them have a minimum order quantity of 100-200
18:05
Spirit532
(at $11-18 a piece)
18:06
DanielCS
left the channel
18:07
intrac_
changed nick to: intrac
18:08
felix_
yep, dual 6g sata. the fpga would allow 4x 6g sata, but probably not easu to route on the 4 layers
18:08
felix_
*easy
18:11
Spirit532
dual is plenty for DCI4K raw at 60fps
18:12
Spirit532
could probably push 70-80 if you had the highest end SSDs
18:12
Spirit532
interleaved recording
18:15
Spirit532
though if someone wants to do 4 SSDs in parallel to push the extreme frame rates out of the cvm12k sensor, I'd be interested in seeing such a contraption
18:27
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
18:27
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
18:28
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
18:29
se6astian
Spirit532: sounds interesting, what part exactly did you get quoted?
18:30
Spirit532
se6astian, just the assembly
18:30
Spirit532
https://i.spirit.re/Liblo.png
18:30
Spirit532
embeddable into a case
18:30
Spirit532
and relatively small
18:30
Spirit532
I've ordered two samples of that one ^
18:30
Spirit532
$12.3/piece in 200 quantity
18:31
se6astian
right, looks good
18:31
Spirit532
I'm talking to what I'm assuming is the actual, original supplier of these
18:32
Spirit532
but yeah, can't buy less than 200
18:32
Spirit532
fewer than*
18:32
se6astian
well you can just get them from a local reseller for 5 times the price is low quantities no?
18:32
Spirit532
yeah, around that
18:33
Spirit532
$35-50 a piece from resellers on aliexpress
18:33
Spirit532
but they're the most questionable resellers possible
18:34
Spirit532
you can also buy the individual 2.5" bays, so a 4-drive setup could be built
18:55
se6astian
how did you manage to get to the source of their supply? :)
19:30
Spirit532
se6astian, lots, and lots, and lots of searching
19:30
Spirit532
I'm very good at abusing parametric searches and getting results I want :P
19:30
Spirit532
that, and mass-messaging distributors on alibaba
19:36
se6astian
so one of them in the end gave up their source, or are they open to share that kind of information?
19:37
Spirit532
I just found the cheapest one that had something in stock and knew about samples
19:38
Spirit532
the rep said that it's their product and they have samples in stock, but minimum orders require manufacturing
19:38
Spirit532
which is accurate enough for me to conclude that they're the original supplier, they just don't keep things in stock for bulk orders
19:41
se6astian
interesting
20:24
se6astian
maybe you can help me in this regard with finding sources
20:24
se6astian
for the AXIOM Remote we decided to use this TFT: https://www.adafruit.com/product/1947
20:25
se6astian
unfortunately we did not succeed at getting in touch with someone in charge at adafruit about purchasing just the TFT without the PCB
20:26
se6astian
there are tons of similar lcds on aliexpress: https://de.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20181117132605&SearchText=240*320+ili9341+2.8%22
20:27
se6astian
but none I found so far has the same pin out
20:45
felix_
https://www.buydisplay.com/ might be worth a look
20:46
Spirit532
se6astian, no!
20:46
Spirit532
adafruit is a gigantic ripoff
20:46
Spirit532
a 2.8"
20:46
Spirit532
2.8" 320x240 with an ILI9341 controller is $3, not $45
20:47
Spirit532
I can do sourcing pretty well
20:47
Spirit532
but as felix_ suggested, buydisplay is a good source - EastRising is a primarily B2B company, they just have a B2C storefront
20:48
Spirit532
their prices aren't the lowest, but I did buy from them, and it came with good documentation and support
20:48
Spirit532
as for the axiom remote - these SPI displays are really not the best option, as their refresh rates are abysmal, even if you drive it from an overclocked output
20:49
Spirit532
I would also advise against buying on aliexpress, because it's a lottery on what you're going to get
20:50
felix_
beware though that the samples you'll get are probably from the best bins and when ordering in volume the displays might be from the other bins as well
20:50
Spirit532
buydisplay don't sell samples
20:51
niemand
left the channel
20:51
Spirit532
they just sell from their bulk supply at increased prices
20:51
felix_
hmm, might be that i mixed up the sources where that was an issue
20:51
Spirit532
most Chinese companies do that when you ask for samples
20:52
Spirit532
especially if they're free samples
20:52
Spirit532
they'll send you 2-3 of their best bin for free, as long as you pay for shipping
20:52
felix_
also that was meant as a rather general statement and not specifically for the company i linked
20:54
Spirit532
I still don't get why people buy from adafruit
20:55
Spirit532
all they do is take pretty pictures of generic OEM parts and write arduino libraries for them
21:15
se6astian
well nobody likes create hardware and software just to evaluate an LCD
21:15
se6astian
the adafruit thing is plug and play and we wanted to check the display
21:16
se6astian
its pretty good in terms of viewing angle, contrast, colors
21:16
se6astian
and refresh rate is really not an issue now that we operate it in parallel mode
21:21
Spirit532
"pretty good in terms of viewing angle, contrast, colors" is the biggest fault of noname chinese displays
21:22
Spirit532
you get all those parameters at random from batch to batch
21:23
Spirit532
the second biggest fault is inconsistent flex lengths and dimensions
21:32
se6astian
so what would you recommend?
21:38
Spirit532
buydisplay is a good option
21:38
Spirit532
not the cheapest but it comes with a legible datasheet
21:38
se6astian
right, they only seem to have one product that fits exactly what we are using so far
21:38
se6astian
https://www.buydisplay.com/default/serial-spi-2-8-tft-lcd-module-display-320x240-optional-touch-screen
21:38
Spirit532
go for that then
21:38
se6astian
that makes choosing easy :)
21:39
se6astian
thanks, will read datasheet and co tomorrow
21:39
se6astian
going to bed now
21:39
se6astian
good night
21:42
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
22:52
intrac
left the channel
22:54
intrac
joined the channel