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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2018/03/17

Timezone: UTC


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03:17
Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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12:27
Bertl_zZ
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12:27
Bertl
morning everyone!
12:46
ArunM
hello Bertl, what is the policy for using freely available IP cores from xilinx!!
12:47
se6astian
off for a bit
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se6astian
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supragya
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LordVan
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13:08
supragya
BAndiT1983, Bertl are you available?
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13:27
MK
Hi, can anyone tell me what coding style should i follow in VHDL tasks?
13:28
supragya
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13:34
supragya
MK, your question is a bit vague. however, as an example for standards, look at https://github.com/vladniculescu/GSOC.
13:34
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13:35
Bertl
MK: check out the existing VHDL code base and try to follow that
13:35
Bertl
if you have any questions regarding the style, just ask me
13:36
Bertl
writing a style guide would be appreciated (e.g. for the wiki)
13:37
MK
Bertl, sorry for the vauge question but in the tasks page i couldn't find the style recommended "make sure to adhere to the VHDL coding style used in the AXIOM Beta codebase."
13:39
MK
Bertl, writing a style guide is a pretty good idea once i deliver my proposal
13:48
Bertl
writing it while you code would be even better :)
13:48
Bertl
anyway, try to get close to existing VHDL (from AXIOM Beta) and if there are questions, just ask ...
13:49
Bertl
once you got something to look at, let me know and I'll tell you what needs to be adjusted
13:58
MK
Bertl, Thank you very much that will be very helpful
13:59
ArunM
hey Rex0rCine are you available?
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BAndiT1983
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15:57
giacomoalbe
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15:58
giacomoalbe
Hi guys! Anyone here willing to talk about OpenCine and GSOC 2018?
15:59
Bertl
you just missed BAndiT1983, he's 'the man for OC'
16:02
giacomoalbe
Hi Bertl! Well, am I that out of timing ahah? Why you saying I've just missed him? Are there any chance to hang with him here this afternoon?
16:03
supragya
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16:03
supragya
hi giacomoalbe !
16:04
Bertl
giacomoalbe: no, check the irc logs for the second question, and probably yes
16:04
supragya
maybe I can help with OC... as far as I know
16:08
giacomoalbe
supragya: It's not a software related question, well kindof. Since this is my last year as a student I'd like to applicate for the GSOC with the Apertus project. I'd like to work on OpenCine.
16:08
supragya
sure, what are your queries. to be specific?
16:09
giacomoalbe
My idea would be to make the tasks tagged in the Phabricator as GSOC_2018 and also add initial editing capabilites to the sw.
16:10
supragya
have you completed the C++ challenge?
16:10
giacomoalbe
I saw on Phabricator that OC has a "column" (don't know how to call them) with a proposal to add Lumiera as a backend, so I think that in the roadmap adding NLE capabilites is planned as a feature.
16:11
giacomoalbe
No I have not completed the challenge yet. I need to start it. is there a deadline for application?
16:11
supragya
no... it's better to do it, get reviewed etc
16:12
supragya
it has to be submitted with proposal
16:12
Bertl
the GSoC application deadline is the 27th of March
16:13
Bertl
it is adviseable to submit more than one proposal (doesn't need to be the same organization)
16:14
Bertl
*advisable
16:15
giacomoalbe
Ok, so I need to submit the proposal togheter with the result of the challenge, am I right? Thank you Bertl for the infos, so I need to hurry up if I don't want to miss the opportunity!
16:15
supragya
you have to add the code to maybe github etc
16:16
supragya
then add it for code review
16:16
supragya
then link it in proposal
16:18
Bertl
you can provide code and/or proposal at any time for review, which we will do (and provide feedback) as time permits
16:18
giacomoalbe
About the weekly schedule, how detailed should the "delieverables" and "organizational stuff" be? I mean, may I just write "week1: Understanding Debayering techniques" week2: "First Prototype of Algorythm working" week3: "Integration in OpenCine" week4: "Research on best NLE backend" ecc or I have to be more precise on timing, goals and intended outcomes?
16:19
Bertl
doesn't need to be a short story as long as it is precise enough to make sense
16:19
Bertl
e.g. week2: working on stuff <-- bad
16:20
Bertl
week2: first prototype <-- very short but fine
16:20
Bertl
(of course, requires context)
16:20
supragya
week2 <- OCcore debayer method SHOODAK implemented, may require external libraries (better, I guess)
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se6astian|away
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16:25
giacomoalbe
Ok, I wasn't aware that the time were that "strict", I need to move fast. So first thing is the c++ challenge, right? After that I need to provide the proposal, with a description of my work togheter with a precise enough timeline with goals and delieverables.
16:26
giacomoalbe
I hope to manage to do that!
16:28
Bertl
well, it's still 10 days, so that should be doable
16:29
supragya
I am unsure of NLE capabilities in OC... what is the task?
16:30
supragya
however, BAndiT1983 must be the one knowing better :)
16:33
giacomoalbe
Right now there's not a task, it was simply a proposal to add NLE capabilities to OC. The idea was to reach that level of pro "thing" in order to be used as a professional tool rather that a simple MovieMaker clone. My idea would be to ease the integration with other softwares like Blender or Natron or any other specific software in the field of VFX/Professional Media production.
16:34
giacomoalbe
I'm studying VFX and Video Production and I love FOSS and Linux. I'd lik to earn a living with Media Production and Linux. I love to code. Blend all those things togheter and you might find what I'm looking for ;)
16:34
supragya
i would suggest you take a look at OC first, build it and try it, then propose. :)
16:35
giacomoalbe
I've already downloaded and built it, I also read almost all the tasks in the Phabricator website.
16:36
supragya
ok :)
16:38
giacomoalbe
So, since I have only 10 days left (I'm very sorry I'm that late, I'm working on many things right now and I was not aware of the deadline ahah), do you think that such a proposal is in line with OpenCine development intentions? Do you think I should stick with the already available proposals?
16:39
supragya
I am not sure about NLE... but as far as I know OC is very basic in its functionality right now
16:39
supragya
BAndiT1983 may suggest better
16:40
supragya
you can propose whatever you may like, its upto you :)
16:41
supragya
I would not go very strongly by what OC development intentions are, but NLE doesn't seem like something of high importance right now.
16:42
supragya
But for GSoC, i guess that would not be a factor, again as Bertl suggests, BAndiT1983 would be your guy :)
16:44
giacomoalbe
Ok, may I ask you what's you are unsure of about NLE? As far as I understood (and I agree with that) the priority for OC is to provide a way to convert RAW images into a format easily readable by other softwares. So this is what I think I'd like to go for, at least as a beginning task.
16:45
supragya
I am just a fellow GSoC applicant like you :)
16:46
supragya
So this is what I think I'd like to go for, at least as a beginning task <- which task?
16:46
giacomoalbe
But after that I think that a software like that (capable of becoming the "best" companion of any Apertus camera) might also add some integration with other professional software (FOSS and commercial) and also a professional timeline with industry standard quality will only benefit the project.
16:46
supragya
sure
16:46
giacomoalbe
The initial task of adding debayering decode methods to OC.
16:47
giacomoalbe
Ok supragya, I thought you were one of the possible mentors ahah!
16:47
supragya
no... I have been here for a month now... know a little bit of OC
16:48
supragya
so could help you
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16:50
supragya
i know quite a bit on your task... so if you want... you can discuss with me. Been in discussions on that line for a while.
16:50
giacomoalbe
Ok, I think we need to wait for BAndiT1983 to shed some light into this darkness ahah!
16:50
supragya
sure, your wish :)
16:50
giacomoalbe
supragya: are you proposing for the same task?
16:50
supragya
no
16:50
supragya
but one guy is
16:51
supragya
however that should not concern you :)
16:52
giacomoalbe
Yes yes, I know! So let's wait for some feedback from BAndiT1983! Thanks to all for the support, help and love, I need to start working on something :)
16:52
supragya
glad to help
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17:20
supragya
Bertl, can you shed some light on this: https://lab.apertus.org/T765?
17:20
supragya
was it a selected GSoC proposal last year?
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17:22
nmdis1999
Hey Bertl, there?
17:22
Bertl
yup
17:23
nmdis1999
I have updated some things in my propsal that we discussed, it'll be good if you can tell me if I did right.
17:23
se6astian
T765 was unfortunately the only "custom idea" proposal we received last year, it was not slected for gsoc
17:23
Bertl
did you already submit it as draft?
17:24
Bertl
(if not, please msg me the url)
17:24
nmdis1999
The proposal? No, I want it to be reviewed first
17:24
nmdis1999
yes, sure
17:33
ArunM
BertL three sensors are mentioned on website for axiom beta sensors, in task t728(emulating sensor) it is not clearly specified which sensor to emulate
17:34
ArunM
And i've gone through datasheet of CMV12000 and KAC12040 both are quite different in terms of interface
17:37
Bertl
yeah, the main focus is on CMV12k for now
17:38
se6astian
I will make it clear in t728
17:39
ArunM
seems fair 90% voted for it
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ArunM
Description updated!! se6astian cares about every detail :-)
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20:33
simon___
Hi I have a question: why after raw2dng conversion my DNG file looks all pink?
20:35
Bertl
most likely because the rows in the raw image are 'swapped' i.e. not how the converter expects them
20:36
Bertl
instead of RGGB it is probably GBRG (or vice versa)
20:36
danieeeel
another issue is when somebody forgots the CM1 being xyz related and puts in a rgb2rgb matrice
20:37
danieeeel
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20:39
simon___
ooook thanks....and I have some question about the 12 to 16 bit raw conversion: if all files are all little endian a 16 bit raw file shoul look in every touple like x0 yz (hex) why instead some of them are x1 yz?
20:40
Bertl
good question, probably a bug
20:44
Bertl
looking at the cmv_snap3.c code (v1.10) I'm not sure how that could happen though
20:44
Bertl
in 16bit mode, we use write_value() which does a (val & 0xFFF) before writing the data
20:45
simon___
Thanks Bertl. Another issue I'm having is trying to understand how the conversion to 16 to 12 bit is done:
20:49
Bertl
is this a question or are you just typing very carefully? :)
20:50
simon___
if for example i have A0 BB C0 DD E0 FF in 16 bit little endian i would first convert it in big endian BB A0 DD C0 FF E0 then remove the LSB and combine. ->BB A DD C FF E-> BB AD DC FF E... and then in little endian AD BB FF DC ...
20:53
simon___
but if I watch with a HEX editor the raw12 and raw 16 files the last part is not done...the raw12 seems like in big endian instead of beeing AD BB FF DC ... it's BB AD DC FF E
20:53
Bertl
the conversion happens from 12bit to 16bit as the FPGA stores packed 12bit in memory
20:54
Bertl
so the 12bit values are extracted and written as 16bit (shift left by 4) values
20:55
simon___
can you make me an example?
20:56
Bertl
12 bit value 0x123 (e.g. for red) gets converted to 0x1230
20:56
Bertl
and this is written as two bytes, 0x30 and 0x12
20:58
simon___
ok but the camera first works in 16 then converts it n 12 or I'm wrong?
20:58
Bertl
you are wrong, the image pipeline gives packed 12bit output
21:01
simon___
ok
21:03
simon___
so if my 12bit files looks like 12 34 56 78 9A to convert it in 16 bit i nedd first to convert it in Big Endian 34 12 78 56..... and then add a 4 bit 0 padding : 34 10 27 80...?
21:05
Bertl
the 12bit raw format is written by write_dvalue()
21:05
simon___
(is this a question?)
21:05
Bertl
which takes two 12bit values v1,v2 in a single 32bit word
21:05
Bertl
it then write out the bytes high to low
21:06
Bertl
so if you want to regerate the data, you reconstruct the word
21:06
Bertl
12 34 56 -> 123456
21:06
Bertl
then break it down into two 12bit values
21:07
Bertl
123 and 456
21:12
simon___
what do you mean when you say it writes bytes high to low?
21:13
Bertl
cmv_snap3.c writes the msbs first
21:16
simon___
so for example if the first 3 pixels of the sensor are 0xAAA 0xBBB 0xCCC how they are write on the raw file?
21:17
simon___
(I'm apologize for the questions but i found nothing on internet)
21:17
Bertl
the first two sensel are combined in a 'word' like 0xAAABBB
21:18
Bertl
this is then written out as 0xAA 0xAB and 0xBB
21:18
Bertl
same happens with the 3rd and 4th
21:20
simon___
and then it's saved in little endian? so 0xAB 0xAA etc..?
21:20
Bertl
no, that's the way it is written (as bytes)
21:23
simon___
ok but why is specified that the raw file is little endian?
21:25
Bertl
I don't know :)
21:25
Bertl
not sure I've seen the 'specification' ...
21:27
simon___
https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/RAW12 here
21:27
simon___
so maybe the conversion in 16 bit is done with little endian
21:29
Bertl
well, if you read the 16bit raw format, it certainly works as 16bit little endian
21:29
Bertl
as I said, 0x123 (12bit) is written as 0x12 and 0x30
21:30
Bertl
which if read as 16bit LE, results in 0x1230
21:33
danieel
Bertl: that is big endian ( 0x12,0x30 -> 0x1230 )
21:33
simon___
I think I dont understand: if i read the file something changes?
21:35
Bertl
danieel: right
21:35
Bertl
simon___: you are always reading bytes, so the interpretation of the data (endianess) for multi byte values depends on you
21:37
simon___
Bertl: i thought the endiannes is correlated with how you save files not how you read them
21:39
simon___
so if you say that 2 12 bit values are saved AA AB BB you read them differently?
21:39
Bertl
you can read them how you like
21:40
Bertl
but I guess what you mean is 'what if you map the file into memory and then access the data as 'native' words
21:40
Bertl
in which case the 'interpretation' depends on the architecture
21:40
Bertl
0x12 0x34 0x56 0x78 in a file, mapped into memory
21:41
Bertl
will give 0x12345678 on a big endian system and 0x78563412 on a little endian system
21:44
simon___
ok so endiannes doesn't effect how the raw file is written?
21:45
Bertl
no, not how it is written, but it might affect how the data is retrieved from memory
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21:46
simon___
ok thanks for the help man ;)
21:46
Bertl
no problem
22:00
simon___
ok but why my first line of the raw12 is 08 00 77 08 and the converted (raw16) is 00 08 70 07 50 and not 08 00 07 70 ...?
22:02
Bertl
because it is little endian :)
22:02
Bertl
00 08 -> 0800, 70 07 -> 0770, etc
22:02
supragya
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22:03
Bertl
and the original 12 bit values are 080 077 ...
22:04
se6astian
simon___: if you are good with illustrations/graphics it would be much appreciated if you documented what you just learned here on the wiki
22:04
se6astian
to make it easier for the next people coming to the project asking themselves the same questions as you did
22:07
simon___
Bertl ok so the camera writes the raw file correctly (in 12 bit) and when i convert it is saved in little endian why?
22:07
simon___
se6astian where?
22:11
Bertl
how do you convert it?
22:13
simon___
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22:29
BAndiT1983|away
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22:58
se6astian
simon: https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/RAW12
23:02
se6astian
off to bed now
23:02
se6astian
good night
23:02
se6astian
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23:02
Bertl
nn
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rton
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