Current Server Time: 01:41 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2016/05/14

Timezone: UTC


01:33
RexO
joined the channel
01:33
Rex0r
left the channel
02:40
Spirit532
joined the channel
04:48
jucar
left the channel
06:26
arpu
left the channel
06:39
arpu
joined the channel
06:57
RexO
left the channel
08:52
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
08:55
se6astian
good morning
09:40
Rex0r
joined the channel
10:00
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
10:00
Bertl
morning folks!
10:21
Dan1
joined the channel
10:22
Dan1
Greetings
10:23
se6astian
hello dan!
10:23
se6astian
how is it going?
10:24
Dan1
Its a Saturday but I had a typical overnight 'how to' question worm in my head regarding raw2dng conversion
10:24
Dan1
yes goof thanks Sebastian I got your email this morning thank you
10:24
Dan1
Good thanks, not goof :-)
10:24
se6astian
:)
10:25
se6astian
gotta go to the supermarket
10:25
se6astian
bbl
10:26
Dan1
No problems I'll leave a couple of questions on here and see replies later on, thanks.
10:33
Bertl
I can answer technical questions but not grading or proprietary software related ones :)
10:34
Dan1
Questions are regarding the raw2dng processing, the DNGs and getting into the next stage of colour processing
10:34
Dan1
Hi Bertl good morning
10:35
Bertl
and a good one to you too
10:35
danieeeel
so what the questions are?
10:36
danieeeel
changed nick to: danieel
10:36
Dan1
converting the snap.raw12 files to DNG via raw2dng is all working fine, but these raw files are not RGN DNGs correct
10:37
Dan1
RGB DNG I mean
10:39
Dan1
Using ImageMagick I can create colour previews as test_color.png
10:40
Dan1
How do I demosaic the RAW DNGs (with their magenta bias) to useable RGB versions to work onwards with.
10:41
Bertl
you need a tool which does proper debayering
10:41
Dan1
And if that processing workflow is correct (snap.raw12 - DNG via raw2dng - demosaic and new RGB DNG debayered) can I debayer to Cineon Log/Log C for example :-)
10:41
Napejts
joined the channel
10:41
Bertl
there is a primitive script for ImageMagick which does a simple debayer to roughly full HD
10:42
Bertl
(for quick preview)
10:42
Bertl
for good debayering to 4k, check with alexML_ or getzingo (Max)
10:43
Bertl
I would be careful with the raw2dng, while it works reasonably well, it might result in unexpected color changes
10:44
Bertl
https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php?title=Axiom_Alpha_Software#Simple_debayer_with_ImageMagick:
10:44
Bertl
the command can easily be adapted to raw12, by changing .raw16 to .raw12 and -depth 16 to -depth 12
10:49
Dan1
Thanks I will try the simple version, it looks like it outputs to PNG like the preveiw, so I can ask alexML or Max for full 4K debayer to DNG or DPX as Loc encoded so I can go grading?
10:49
Dan1
Can I output to another format such as DNG on that simple debayer by changing the .PNG to .DNG?
10:50
Bertl
If ImageMagick can write DNGs, then yes, but I don't think so
10:50
Bertl
you can produce TIFFs though
10:52
Dan1
I will have a play and see what it lets me create. or even Open EXR would be good, I will have a go mind. TIFFs is good for getting going.
10:56
fredy
left the channel
10:58
fredy
joined the channel
10:59
Dan1
png and TIFF worked fine
11:09
Dan1
Tried dng and cdng extension but no luck
11:30
Bertl
yeah, thought so, DNG is too complicated
11:32
Dan1
There is a ML RAW 1.2.0 that does a DNG to 'Force Linear' as DNG but it can't read the raw2dng created via the snap.raw12 files. Still looking though.
11:37
Bertl
the problem with DNG imho is that it doesn't really handle raw data, although it can store raw data
11:37
Bertl
i.e. you need to specify a color transformation on the data to have correct DNG
11:37
Bertl
(as far as I understood)
11:37
Bertl
and that's the chicken-egg problem with real raw data
11:38
Bertl
you want to find a proper transformation for the real raw data, so you create a DNG (with a fake transformation), to create the proper transformation you'll want for the DNG in the first place
11:40
Dan1
Also it seems ARC and others like RAWTherapee and Darktable aren't working with these dng files, dcraw and libraw I think are more used to ML created RAW files from their own software recording their RAW recordings from Canon cameras etc. AXIOM created DNGs via raw2dng still need that demosaic/debayer it seems (linear DNG) to be useable, but yes the correct colour transform needs to be there too.
11:41
Dan1
Yes I see thanks Bert.
11:44
Bertl
best to chat with alexML_ regarding raw2dng for the Beta
11:45
Bertl
there are several versions out there already and I think they could benefit from some testing and feedback#
11:46
Dan1
Can I email alexML_ and Max for some feedback?
11:49
Bertl
sure, why not
11:53
Rex0r
It may be more worthwhile posting on the Magic Lantern forum though.
11:53
Rex0r
There are a lot of clever folks there besides Alex, who's very active anyway.
12:03
Dan1
Bert sent email to you, thanks.
12:03
Dan1
Yes Rex the forum is pretty active
12:24
toxitobi
joined the channel
13:17
toxitobi
Hey guys, I just read https://www.slashcam.de/news/single/Clever-geloest--Apertus-Axiom-Beta-kann-UHD-RAW-via-12885.html About the 4k raw recording- this is absolutly amazing keep it up
13:19
toxitobi
this articel links to https://www.apertus.org/axiom-beta-uhd-raw-mode-explained-article-may-2016 , which i just don't know how to get via any menu on https://www.apertus.org/ is there a secret trick?
13:21
se6astian
hi toxitobi
13:21
se6astian
that article is not released yet :)
13:21
se6astian
we will release it on monday
13:22
toxitobi
Well it is now but not by you facebook has it already too.
13:23
se6astian
yes :)
13:24
toxitobi
This is really great news, so many HD-Recorder can now record 4k Raw
13:28
se6astian
unfortunately not that many recorders can actually record 1080p60
13:28
se6astian
most max out at 1080p30
13:30
Bertl
but there is still hope if you got two of those
13:30
Bertl
i.e. you can record two 1080p30 streams from the Beta and use this for the same process
13:31
Bertl
probably even higher resolution if the recorder supports it
13:32
toxitobi
Hehe I like this hacking attitude, I know the shogun that i own can record 60fps but untill know this was not so important.
13:32
Dan1
Could I take 2 x 1080p30 HDMI streams, convert to SDI and record those as a combined 1080p60 signal?
13:33
Bertl
if your recorder can do that, why not
13:33
Bertl
note that our scope ends with the two 1080p30
13:34
Dan1
I will try a test next week, reminds me of 422 + 022 down 2 x SDI for a full 444 capture from CCD like F23 and F35 and Vipers, in the day :-)
13:35
intracube
what HDMI version are the sockets on the Beta camera?
13:39
intracube
I guess probably 1.4?
13:39
intracube
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_comparison
13:39
Bertl
more 1.2
13:40
Bertl
the output is limited to roughly 150Mhz pixel clock
13:40
intracube
Bertl: ah ok
13:40
Bertl
which in turn means 3x 1.5Gbit
13:41
intracube
thanks
13:47
Bertl
we can do up to three outputs at 1080p60 this way
13:47
Bertl
(although the 3xHDMI plugin module is not complete yet)
13:50
toxitobi
There is an old certificate for https://files.apertus.org/AXIOM-Beta/optimal_curve.html says firefox
14:00
intracube
Bertl: might it be possible for a later design of output module to provide either 3x HDMI @ ~v1.2 or if only one socket is in use, switch to an HDMI 1.4 mode?
14:01
intracube
or would that require other architectural changes elsewhere on the camera
14:02
Bertl
the current HDMI limit is from the Zynq, i.e. it is the maximum rate per lane which can be achieved
14:03
Bertl
switching between HDMI 1.2 and 2.0 is not easy, as it requires completely different serializers
14:03
intracube
ah ok, fair enough
14:03
Bertl
but there will be a single hdmi 2.0 plugin
14:03
intracube
oh really?
14:03
Bertl
(maybe with a second HDMI 1.0 port or so, if space permits)
14:04
Bertl
so you can switch between those plugins if needed
14:04
Bertl
toxitobi: morrigan will take care of that shortly
14:04
intracube
Bertl: that sounds great
14:05
intracube
so that could provide 4k native output on the one HDMI out
14:06
Bertl
yup
14:06
intracube
cool
14:09
intracube
Bertl: and would the 2.0 plugin be for the Gamma cam or the Beta as well?
14:15
Bertl
for the Beta
14:17
intracube
nice - thanks for the info :)
15:29
toxitobi_
joined the channel
15:32
toxitobi
left the channel
15:44
toxitobi_
left the channel
15:46
jucar
joined the channel
15:53
toxitobi
joined the channel
16:28
Bertl
off for a nap ... bbl
16:28
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
16:52
jucar
left the channel
17:11
baldand
left the channel
17:12
baldand
joined the channel
17:26
Napejts
left the channel
17:42
AXIOM-HQ
left the channel
17:45
kaiserlich
joined the channel
18:22
slikdigit
joined the channel
18:23
slikdigit
left the channel
18:23
slikdigit
joined the channel
18:27
Dan1
left the channel
18:34
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
18:34
Bertl
back now ...
18:35
AXIOM-HQ
joined the channel
19:07
Alex_Chooks
joined the channel
19:10
Alex_Chooks
Hi there ! I hope the 3d printed enclosure is useful for you ! :)
19:17
Bertl
from what I heard of it already ... definitely :)
19:33
Alex_Chooks
great !
19:38
Spirit532
left the channel
19:49
RexOrCine
left the channel
20:14
toxitobi
left the channel
20:21
slikdigit
left the channel
21:22
kaiserlich
left the channel
23:15
Napejts
joined the channel
23:15
Napejts
left the channel
23:26
fredy
left the channel
23:28
fredy
joined the channel
00:16
se6astian
off to bed
00:16
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
00:18
Bertl
nn