Current Server Time: 03:04 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2016/05/14

Timezone: UTC


00:33
RexO
joined the channel
00:33
Rex0r
left the channel
01:40
Spirit532
joined the channel
03:48
jucar
left the channel
05:26
arpu
left the channel
05:39
arpu
joined the channel
05:57
RexO
left the channel
07:52
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
07:55
se6astian
good morning
08:40
Rex0r
joined the channel
09:00
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
09:00
Bertl
morning folks!
09:21
Dan1
joined the channel
09:22
Dan1
Greetings
09:23
se6astian
hello dan!
09:23
se6astian
how is it going?
09:24
Dan1
Its a Saturday but I had a typical overnight 'how to' question worm in my head regarding raw2dng conversion
09:24
Dan1
yes goof thanks Sebastian I got your email this morning thank you
09:24
Dan1
Good thanks, not goof :-)
09:24
se6astian
:)
09:25
se6astian
gotta go to the supermarket
09:25
se6astian
bbl
09:26
Dan1
No problems I'll leave a couple of questions on here and see replies later on, thanks.
09:33
Bertl
I can answer technical questions but not grading or proprietary software related ones :)
09:34
Dan1
Questions are regarding the raw2dng processing, the DNGs and getting into the next stage of colour processing
09:34
Dan1
Hi Bertl good morning
09:35
Bertl
and a good one to you too
09:35
danieeeel
so what the questions are?
09:36
danieeeel
changed nick to: danieel
09:36
Dan1
converting the snap.raw12 files to DNG via raw2dng is all working fine, but these raw files are not RGN DNGs correct
09:37
Dan1
RGB DNG I mean
09:39
Dan1
Using ImageMagick I can create colour previews as test_color.png
09:40
Dan1
How do I demosaic the RAW DNGs (with their magenta bias) to useable RGB versions to work onwards with.
09:41
Bertl
you need a tool which does proper debayering
09:41
Dan1
And if that processing workflow is correct (snap.raw12 - DNG via raw2dng - demosaic and new RGB DNG debayered) can I debayer to Cineon Log/Log C for example :-)
09:41
Napejts
joined the channel
09:41
Bertl
there is a primitive script for ImageMagick which does a simple debayer to roughly full HD
09:42
Bertl
(for quick preview)
09:42
Bertl
for good debayering to 4k, check with alexML_ or getzingo (Max)
09:43
Bertl
I would be careful with the raw2dng, while it works reasonably well, it might result in unexpected color changes
09:44
Bertl
https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php?title=Axiom_Alpha_Software#Simple_debayer_with_ImageMagick:
09:44
Bertl
the command can easily be adapted to raw12, by changing .raw16 to .raw12 and -depth 16 to -depth 12
09:49
Dan1
Thanks I will try the simple version, it looks like it outputs to PNG like the preveiw, so I can ask alexML or Max for full 4K debayer to DNG or DPX as Loc encoded so I can go grading?
09:49
Dan1
Can I output to another format such as DNG on that simple debayer by changing the .PNG to .DNG?
09:50
Bertl
If ImageMagick can write DNGs, then yes, but I don't think so
09:50
Bertl
you can produce TIFFs though
09:52
Dan1
I will have a play and see what it lets me create. or even Open EXR would be good, I will have a go mind. TIFFs is good for getting going.
09:56
fredy
left the channel
09:58
fredy
joined the channel
09:59
Dan1
png and TIFF worked fine
10:09
Dan1
Tried dng and cdng extension but no luck
10:30
Bertl
yeah, thought so, DNG is too complicated
10:32
Dan1
There is a ML RAW 1.2.0 that does a DNG to 'Force Linear' as DNG but it can't read the raw2dng created via the snap.raw12 files. Still looking though.
10:37
Bertl
the problem with DNG imho is that it doesn't really handle raw data, although it can store raw data
10:37
Bertl
i.e. you need to specify a color transformation on the data to have correct DNG
10:37
Bertl
(as far as I understood)
10:37
Bertl
and that's the chicken-egg problem with real raw data
10:38
Bertl
you want to find a proper transformation for the real raw data, so you create a DNG (with a fake transformation), to create the proper transformation you'll want for the DNG in the first place
10:40
Dan1
Also it seems ARC and others like RAWTherapee and Darktable aren't working with these dng files, dcraw and libraw I think are more used to ML created RAW files from their own software recording their RAW recordings from Canon cameras etc. AXIOM created DNGs via raw2dng still need that demosaic/debayer it seems (linear DNG) to be useable, but yes the correct colour transform needs to be there too.
10:41
Dan1
Yes I see thanks Bert.
10:44
Bertl
best to chat with alexML_ regarding raw2dng for the Beta
10:45
Bertl
there are several versions out there already and I think they could benefit from some testing and feedback#
10:46
Dan1
Can I email alexML_ and Max for some feedback?
10:49
Bertl
sure, why not
10:53
Rex0r
It may be more worthwhile posting on the Magic Lantern forum though.
10:53
Rex0r
There are a lot of clever folks there besides Alex, who's very active anyway.
11:03
Dan1
Bert sent email to you, thanks.
11:03
Dan1
Yes Rex the forum is pretty active
11:24
toxitobi
joined the channel
12:17
toxitobi
Hey guys, I just read https://www.slashcam.de/news/single/Clever-geloest--Apertus-Axiom-Beta-kann-UHD-RAW-via-12885.html About the 4k raw recording- this is absolutly amazing keep it up
12:19
toxitobi
this articel links to https://www.apertus.org/axiom-beta-uhd-raw-mode-explained-article-may-2016 , which i just don't know how to get via any menu on https://www.apertus.org/ is there a secret trick?
12:21
se6astian
hi toxitobi
12:21
se6astian
that article is not released yet :)
12:21
se6astian
we will release it on monday
12:22
toxitobi
Well it is now but not by you facebook has it already too.
12:23
se6astian
yes :)
12:24
toxitobi
This is really great news, so many HD-Recorder can now record 4k Raw
12:28
se6astian
unfortunately not that many recorders can actually record 1080p60
12:28
se6astian
most max out at 1080p30
12:30
Bertl
but there is still hope if you got two of those
12:30
Bertl
i.e. you can record two 1080p30 streams from the Beta and use this for the same process
12:31
Bertl
probably even higher resolution if the recorder supports it
12:32
toxitobi
Hehe I like this hacking attitude, I know the shogun that i own can record 60fps but untill know this was not so important.
12:32
Dan1
Could I take 2 x 1080p30 HDMI streams, convert to SDI and record those as a combined 1080p60 signal?
12:33
Bertl
if your recorder can do that, why not
12:33
Bertl
note that our scope ends with the two 1080p30
12:34
Dan1
I will try a test next week, reminds me of 422 + 022 down 2 x SDI for a full 444 capture from CCD like F23 and F35 and Vipers, in the day :-)
12:35
intracube
what HDMI version are the sockets on the Beta camera?
12:39
intracube
I guess probably 1.4?
12:39
intracube
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_comparison
12:39
Bertl
more 1.2
12:40
Bertl
the output is limited to roughly 150Mhz pixel clock
12:40
intracube
Bertl: ah ok
12:40
Bertl
which in turn means 3x 1.5Gbit
12:41
intracube
thanks
12:47
Bertl
we can do up to three outputs at 1080p60 this way
12:47
Bertl
(although the 3xHDMI plugin module is not complete yet)
12:50
toxitobi
There is an old certificate for https://files.apertus.org/AXIOM-Beta/optimal_curve.html says firefox
13:00
intracube
Bertl: might it be possible for a later design of output module to provide either 3x HDMI @ ~v1.2 or if only one socket is in use, switch to an HDMI 1.4 mode?
13:01
intracube
or would that require other architectural changes elsewhere on the camera
13:02
Bertl
the current HDMI limit is from the Zynq, i.e. it is the maximum rate per lane which can be achieved
13:03
Bertl
switching between HDMI 1.2 and 2.0 is not easy, as it requires completely different serializers
13:03
intracube
ah ok, fair enough
13:03
Bertl
but there will be a single hdmi 2.0 plugin
13:03
intracube
oh really?
13:03
Bertl
(maybe with a second HDMI 1.0 port or so, if space permits)
13:04
Bertl
so you can switch between those plugins if needed
13:04
Bertl
toxitobi: morrigan will take care of that shortly
13:04
intracube
Bertl: that sounds great
13:05
intracube
so that could provide 4k native output on the one HDMI out
13:06
Bertl
yup
13:06
intracube
cool
13:09
intracube
Bertl: and would the 2.0 plugin be for the Gamma cam or the Beta as well?
13:15
Bertl
for the Beta
13:17
intracube
nice - thanks for the info :)
14:29
toxitobi_
joined the channel
14:32
toxitobi
left the channel
14:44
toxitobi_
left the channel
14:46
jucar
joined the channel
14:53
toxitobi
joined the channel
15:28
Bertl
off for a nap ... bbl
15:28
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
15:52
jucar
left the channel
16:11
baldand
left the channel
16:12
baldand
joined the channel
16:26
Napejts
left the channel
16:42
AXIOM-HQ
left the channel
16:45
kaiserlich
joined the channel
17:22
slikdigit
joined the channel
17:23
slikdigit
left the channel
17:23
slikdigit
joined the channel
17:27
Dan1
left the channel
17:34
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
17:34
Bertl
back now ...
17:35
AXIOM-HQ
joined the channel
18:07
Alex_Chooks
joined the channel
18:10
Alex_Chooks
Hi there ! I hope the 3d printed enclosure is useful for you ! :)
18:17
Bertl
from what I heard of it already ... definitely :)
18:33
Alex_Chooks
great !
18:38
Spirit532
left the channel
18:49
RexOrCine
left the channel
19:14
toxitobi
left the channel
19:21
slikdigit
left the channel
20:22
kaiserlich
left the channel
22:15
Napejts
joined the channel
22:15
Napejts
left the channel
22:26
fredy
left the channel
22:28
fredy
joined the channel
23:16
se6astian
off to bed
23:16
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
23:18
Bertl
nn