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| 08:17 | Bertl | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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| 14:19 | comradekingu | So i talked about the apertus axiom beta at work today. At the point where i mentioned hdmi cables my pitch took a tumble
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| 14:20 | comradekingu | Because hdmi cables and connectors, exposed to the everyday grind of broadcasting, fail, invariably
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| 14:21 | comradekingu | But everyone has their settings and their preferences, so the custom abilities really fits in with everyone in the chain
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| 14:22 | comradekingu | I think if you can enable one guy to do a multiple angle shoot on his own without much hassle the price doesnt matter
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| 14:22 | comradekingu | Much like carrying a microphone was a guy of its own back in the day
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| 15:11 | Bertl | morning folks!
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| 15:13 | Bertl | comradekingu: well, I hope you made it clear that the Beta is a development device, so not intended for everyday grind of whatever, and also that the I/O interface can be switched out (e.g. for an SDI interface or whatever works for you)
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| 15:25 | comradekingu | oh, ill take anything over hdmi
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| 15:26 | Bertl | so you might go with the SDI module instead of the HDMI then (as example :)
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| 15:26 | Bertl | just we do not expect developers to have many SDI capable monitors ...
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| 15:27 | comradekingu | there is a special "oh he said hdmi"-face, and its means im listening from hereon out, but hdmi has been said
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| 15:28 | comradekingu | My other thing is that the website doesnt explain what makes it different from doing the same over again
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| 15:28 | comradekingu | its "free (in terms of liberty) and open cinema tools" and then no explanation of what that entails
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| 15:29 | comradekingu | If someone wants to write about it for example, its difficult for them if they arent already in the loop of things
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| 15:31 | comradekingu | Its not like everyone and their dog knows what a porche is, or that they have use for it, or can afford it. But since the concept is communicated quite clearly, that has benefits
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| 15:31 | Bertl | not sure what you mean here ... IIRC, the web pages have been massaged for some time, no?
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| 15:33 | comradekingu | Well, it got slightly better, but the majority of it was in getting rid of things that werent essential
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| 15:33 | Bertl | anyway, I think the problem is the target audience
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| 15:33 | comradekingu | https://www.apertus.org/home-wip is my effort, i think it lowers the treshold considerably. Makes it more comprihensible for regular people
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| 15:34 | Bertl | we have no intention (at this point) to convince somebody not interested in their freedoms that a FOSS/OH camera is the better choice
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| 15:34 | comradekingu | But the target audience doesnt shrink or suffer from broadening the scope
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| 15:35 | comradekingu | That isnt the issue
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| 15:35 | comradekingu | The issue is that very few people know what a FOSS/OH camera is
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| 15:35 | Bertl | many folks nowadays suffer from the "golden cage" syndrome, and they are happy, so why waste valuable resources in fighting windmills
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| 15:35 | comradekingu | Someone who knows next to nothing about engines can still tell you what a porche is about
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| 15:36 | comradekingu | dont understand
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| 15:37 | Bertl | try asking an armish family about the values of a porche :)
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| 15:37 | comradekingu | I bought a camera just to learn and because its foss, i know foss from before, and i have an interest in cameras
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| 15:37 | comradekingu | what does armish mean?
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| 15:37 | Bertl | -r
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| 15:38 | Bertl | what I'm saying is, different people, different values
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| 15:39 | Bertl | nevertheless, feel free to write more about the advantages of FOSS/OH in respect to the AXIOM cameras or apertus ecosystem
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| 15:39 | comradekingu | ok, this is like using amish language to communicate a product that isnt encompassed by amish terms
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| 15:39 | comradekingu | Thats after you know what FOSS is
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| 15:40 | comradekingu | Otherwise its just anyones product brief, albeit a compelling one
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| 15:40 | comradekingu | If i am not thinking differently, i am not expecting there to be anything different, in turn leading me to make false assumptions
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| 15:41 | comradekingu | All derived from the main point being nowhere to be seen
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| 15:41 | comradekingu | Unless you already know it that is
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| 15:41 | Bertl | I doubt that you can explain the advantages of FOSS/OH to somebody who isn't already unhappy with the current state
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| 15:41 | comradekingu | Exact same reason so much of the cruft was removed, it preaches to the choir
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| 15:41 | comradekingu | Bertl: thats where you are wrong
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| 15:42 | comradekingu | And misguided
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| 15:42 | Bertl | IMHO it's like telling somebody who was imprisoned all his life, how great the "outside" is
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| 15:42 | comradekingu | If you dont know about anything else, you accept the current situation as faith, if you dont make it obvious there is a difference, there isnt a reason to be unhappy
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| 15:42 | Bertl | if he is happy "inside" then your arguments won't really take ground
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| 15:43 | Bertl | I'm all for explaining the advantages, don't get me wrong there
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| 15:43 | comradekingu | Some people were unhappy enough to make a camera that is different, and then left it out of their communication, because they thought the point wasnt an important one to make
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| 15:43 | Bertl | but I'm against missionary work
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| 15:43 | comradekingu | How is it?
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| 15:44 | comradekingu | How is communicating a message clearly and honest anything to do with missionary work
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| 15:44 | Bertl | didn't say that, did I?
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| 15:44 | comradekingu | ok
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| 15:44 | comradekingu | then we agree
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| 15:45 | Bertl | and again, if you think that you can "improve" the message, feel free to do so
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| 15:45 | comradekingu | Right now i would describe it as a cult/underground way of communicating. You either know already or we wont bother pointing it out. To me that only makes sense if it absolutely doesnt concern anyone else
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| 15:46 | comradekingu | Like "ask for quote" if the price is outside of anyone who needs to ask's pricerange
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| 15:47 | comradekingu | Bertl: i did, and its just sitting there. It wont ever be approved, because the only people with write-permissions are the people who wrote the old one, and cant understand where it fails
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| 15:49 | comradekingu | And that is a damn shame, because if the market demographic is anythiing, its pro videographers. Not foss videographers, because thats 100 people
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| 15:51 | comradekingu | And pro videographers know video, and they know being annoyed at closed cumbersome stuff. They understand whats better, but if they dont understand foss they wont consider apertus to be anything but another aja or whatever else small venture doing a camera
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| 15:53 | comradekingu | I think its a case of not seeing the difference from within. The obvious apertus solution isnt obviously known or known to be different from where the problem arised
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| 15:54 | comradekingu | I see people everyday who suffer with systems i wouldnt touch with a rake, because i know better. But i know well enough to know i did the exact same thing before i knew better.
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| 15:54 | comradekingu | So short of spending the time ive put in, id really like it if someone told my old self a few things or two in this manner.
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| 15:57 | comradekingu | Try it, the work is already done.
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| 16:07 | comradekingu | Or if its worse for anyone, let me know, and i shall make amends
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| 16:59 | dmjnova | comradekingu: sounds like they might need some custom interface modules
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| 17:06 | se6astian | hello!
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| 17:08 | Juicyfruit | hi se6astian :)
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| 17:11 | se6astian | hello!
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| 17:51 | comradekingu | dmjnova: well the idea is to make it rugged, anything thats in the least fiddly will break
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| 18:44 | dmjnova | comradekingu: yeah, was just saying one could replace the HDMI interface boards with something else given the development effort
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| 19:20 | comradekingu | dmjnova: yes, that puts it in the running again
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| 21:00 | Bertl | off for a nap ... bbl
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| 21:10 | lab-bot | BAndiT1983 committed rOPENCINEc74177ebd149: - Prototype: Started implementing simple processing pipeline to verify some… (authored by BAndiT1983).
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| 21:23 | lab-bot | BAndiT1983 committed rOPENCINE8712dc108e01: - Prototype: Small adjustments (authored by BAndiT1983).
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| 21:51 | se6astian | tm for bd
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| 21:51 | se6astian | damn kyboard
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| 21:51 | se6astian | good night :)
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