Current Server Time: 01:05 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2014/09/13

Timezone: UTC


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Topic
apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | Currently Hot: AXIOM Beta Crowd Funding is Live: http://igg.me/at/axiom-beta | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
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se6astian
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noir__
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Bertl_zZ
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09:13
Bertl
morning folks!
09:13
Seku
morning Bertl!
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Bertl
hey juliancorrea!
09:59
juliancorrea
thank you !
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aombk
ibc?
10:41
aombk
so what is going on there?
10:46
Bertl
I'm pretty sure se6astian will report when he has time/comes back
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derWalter
moin moin
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Seku
moinsen
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Robin___
Hey, I'm @ IBC 2014. Where are you Apertus guys?
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Bertl
Robin___: probably roaming around somewhere
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Topic
apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | Currently Hot: AXIOM Beta Crowd Funding is Live: http://igg.me/at/axiom-beta | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
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se6astian
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aombk
hey FergusL
15:52
FergusL
hi aombk !
15:52
aombk
long time no see
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16:03
derWalter
hey guys, i ve been looking for a good battery charger and found this german guy ( http://www.akku-selekt.de/ ) who is adapting, tuning and selling a battery charger. he is providing tons of information in german about batteries and their charging habits. as he is a big fan of eneloop batteries, maybe one could get him involved into development, so the axiom could get shippid with some kind of batterypack, where the people could
16:04
derWalter
but recommended use of eneloops. i use them for years and have never ever used better batteries in my life. so you could exchange faulty batteries, without being forced to throw away all the other cells in the pack as well (as it is with proprietary solutions) and one would have a really beefy charger plattform as well. ... just my thoughts
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16:24
Bertl
derWalter: go crazy, make contact, motivate him to participate in development ...
16:30
derWalter
not wanting to go crazy :D
16:31
derWalter
i just took out the battery from my nikon d800 and compared it to 4 AA eneloops
16:35
derWalter
my nikon battery weights 105gramms, got a voltage of 7V and 1900mAh, so 105 gramms 14Wh. the 4 eneloops weigh 125gramms, got 1900mAh and 1,2Volts EACH, so in total 7600mAh 4,8 Volts and 36Wh
16:36
Bertl
4.8V is a little low, you want to get above 6V
16:37
derWalter
so, the sustainabillity factor: the nikon en-el15 is reported to have very short life cycles, i bought three and cycle use them, never get them to low charged and one is already DEAD. the eneloops are reported to have 1800 cycles within 5 years while retaining 85% of their capacity
16:38
derWalter
8 of them in a case, you end up with a package around 110mm x 60mm x 17mm
16:38
derWalter
this would weigh around 250-300 gramms and give you 72Wh at 9,6Volt
16:40
Bertl
sounds good, you can buy an x8 box from your electronic shop and simply attach it
16:40
derWalter
and if one cell dies early, open the case and change it. if you discharge charge discharge charge discharge charge (recycle) them 3-5 times a year and watch them to never get bellow 1Volt they will last at least 1800 cycles
16:40
derWalter
yes, that was my idea
16:41
derWalter
you would need the case for the batteries tough...
16:43
derWalter
i also very much like the idea atomos realized with two packs attached at the same time, would be nice to be able to "stack" them, so you can attach em to each other. but if you need sooo much power you will end up with some external solution anyways i guess...
16:43
derWalter
i mean... mhhh one could evel utilize the case the eneloops come in
16:43
derWalter
/s/evel /even
16:43
Bertl
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-case-box-holder-for-x-8AA-size-cells-12V-3510-/281107209969
16:44
Bertl
the come in all shapes and sizes, just search for battery holder xN (where N is the number of batteries)
16:44
derWalter
woha, there you go.
16:45
derWalter
i was thinking about something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-8AA-Battery-Holder-Case-Sockets-Holding-8pcs-AA-2A-12V-R03-LR03-Box-plastic-/131271149055?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e905ec5ff
16:46
derWalter
but to be honest, it looks quite cheap, better to get something good, which lasts and doesent need a replacement once in a while.
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derWalter
bertl have you thought about using something like a trello board? i came accross it, when i investigated a little bit on the upcoming unreal tournament and the development :) @ https://trello.com/b/Q07L4mSS/unreal-tournament-programming
16:56
Bertl
what's that for?
16:58
derWalter
project organisation and gives a clue whats been done and who is working on what right now
16:58
derWalter
i can instantly read into topics i am interessted in
17:00
Bertl
well, I'm pretty sure there is an open source pendant for this, I don't think it is wise to depend on proprietary services
17:01
Bertl
even if they offer it for free, all kind of things can happen, like sudden charges, termination of service, drastic feature changes, etc
17:02
derWalter
thats right ofc
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derWalter
am i right that 2,5" formfactor is 10mm oversized compared to the axiom beta case? so if you want to design a storage module the only possible form factors for sata/ssd media would be 1,8" or msata? everything else gets extremely expensive and urges for a special adapter to be connected to a pc
17:14
Bertl
yes, 2.5" SSDs are slightly larger than the planned AXIOM Beta
17:15
Bertl
weilcome AndChat|176409!
17:16
Bertl
mSATA MO-300A and Half Slim MO-297 would work as well
17:17
AndChat|176409
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17:17
Meinereiner
Hey there. Sorry for the connection issues.
17:18
Bertl
no problem
17:18
Meinereiner
Quick question, do you already have a 3D lookup table implemented within the camera?
17:19
Bertl
no, the AXIOM Alpha uses a 4x4 Matrix combined with 1D gamma LUTs
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17:20
Meinereiner
Is this something you would like to have?
17:21
Bertl
do you write 3D lookup tables for FPGAs?
17:21
Meinereiner
Because maybe I could contribute to that. I've written a 3D LUT for an altera cyclone v fpga for my bachelor's thesis.
17:22
Bertl
ah, yeah, that would indeed be very helpful
17:22
Bertl
is it written in Verilog or VHDL?
17:22
Meinereiner
VHDL
17:23
Meinereiner
It is optimized for 4k resolutions, throughput is at 600 million pixels per second.
17:25
Meinereiner
I don't have any xilinx experience so I'd have to look how much effort it takes to port to a zynq
17:25
Bertl
hmm, okay, we have a maximum of roughly twice the amount of pixels per second, so given that it doesn't use up all FPGA resources that could be parallelized
17:26
Bertl
is there a pdf available of your thesis? is the code already public? if so, what license?
17:27
Bertl
my experience is that the various FPGAs are quite similar at what they can do, usually the tools are trying to be as different as possible :)
17:27
Meinereiner
I'm not quite done writing the thesis, but it will be entirely public once I'm done with my degree in a few weeks.
17:28
Bertl
okay, anything to look at before that happens or do we simply wait till you're finished?
17:30
Meinereiner
I can give you a preliminary PDF by tomorrow if you like. I just stumbled over your Projekt and wanted to ask if you are interested.
17:30
Bertl
okay, great! and yes, of course we are interested :)
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Meinereiner
Do you really require twice the amount of throughput? Because I'm wondering how you're getting that amount of data out of the fpga :D
17:33
Bertl
yeah, we wondered for some time as well, but there are actually several ways in the AXIOM Beta
17:33
Meinereiner
Is that raw Bayer?
17:34
Bertl
yes, the sensor does raw bayer images at up to 300 FPS
17:34
Bertl
(at lower bitdepths)
17:36
Meinereiner
Well, after a 3D LUT you would probably want to stick to a 3 Compotent color space. And 1,2 giga pixels per second at 30 bit per pixel or more is quite a lot.
17:37
Bertl
indeed, nevertheless, debayering increases the amount of data
17:37
Bertl
so with a good debayer, we might end up with 4096x3072 pixels at up to (realistically) 150FPS
17:38
Bertl
(which is even more, about 1.8G pixel/s)
17:39
Bertl
but on the other hand, if we can't get it to work with more than 600M pixel/s, that would still be enough for the typical 4K @ 30 FPS applications
17:40
Meinereiner
For that kind of throughput I'd have to implement a different interpolator. Trilinear interpolation uses a lot of hardware multiplicators.
17:49
Bertl
or maybe just optimize the pipeline structures
17:49
Bertl
but I agree, you won't be able to go over a certain limit with a single pipeline
17:50
Bertl
as I said, we can start simple, we do not need to have every feature at the beginning
18:00
Meinereiner
The module is fairly optimized for speed already. The limiting factor is DSP and block rams fmax at 300 MHz for the cyclone V. If you need more throughput, I'd have to double the resources. Which means an additional 84 Hardware multiplicators and 200 KByte worth of block RAM.
18:02
Meinereiner
Thanks for now, I'll be back tomorrow.
18:05
derWalter
interessting!
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Bertl
off for a nap now ... bbl
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Bertl
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dakorl
@derWalter just read your calculation about the eneloops. Am I right that the batteries in serial have the sum of the voltages but the same capacity as one cell?
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ray__
dakor1 is right about the eneloops, in series the voltage add up but capacity stay the same, in parallel capacity add up but voltage stay the same, 4x eneloops only have 9.6Wh
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Topic
apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | Currently Hot: AXIOM Beta Crowd Funding is Live: http://igg.me/at/axiom-beta | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
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se6astian
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derWalter
hahaha, yeah, right :D
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Topic
apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | Currently Hot: AXIOM Beta Crowd Funding is Live: http://igg.me/at/axiom-beta | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
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se6astian
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22:17
derWalter
well, it wouldnt be a problem to go from 8 to 16 eneloops, as thickness wouldnt be a problem for the module, but... hell, that 9,6V 15200mAh monster would weigh more than 500gramms, would say around 600-750 to stay halfway real, which is a lot. but on the other hand, that would be a lot of power... @bertl how long would the axiom B be able to run with such a battery attached? lets add 5 watts for writing to an ssd ( according to
22:18
derWalter
thats allready a lot, the lowest when writing was about 1 watts by an intel msata ssd drive... average ~3watts, so 5 watts seems to be fair enough :)!! )
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derWalter
am i right that the whole system would use 10-12 watts while recording to an ssd?
22:21
derWalter
hey alexML_
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22:56
Bertl
back now ...
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23:12
Bertl
derWalter: it really depends on what the camera is doing, the typical minimum is about 2 Watt for the MicroZed, which can go up to roughly 12W max
23:14
Bertl
and for the sensor it is typically around 1W, but can go up to 2.5W
23:14
Bertl
the remaining electronics should stay below 1W