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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2014/04/13

Timezone: UTC


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Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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rainer_vie_
seems like the blackmagic 4k camera uses also the cmv12000 http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20281&sid=99f3f806adfe8a0aa570ed0160df7fd9&start=50#p129148
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09:38
se6astian
good mornin
10:03
Bertl
morning folks!
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17:01
troy_s
Bertl: It is where I suggest making the issues well known.
17:02
troy_s
Bertl: Not fair to other groups; the BM folks that spent hard earned money on that crap sensor.
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18:45
tyrone_
i just have seen on the archive that they say that bm is using the cmv12000.. from my point v view i don't think so because in the technical spec of the bm website they give in the sensor format current value: 21.12mm x 11.88mm and that's not a cmv12000... for me it's a custom design or a sensor that i couldn't find....
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19:03
troy_s
tyrone_: Good spot. Is that in that thread?
19:03
troy_s
tyrone_: There has been much speculation that they are in fact using a CMV chip.
19:04
Bertl
chances are good that it still is a cmosis chip
19:04
Bertl
at least the images showing the bonding look very similar
19:05
tyrone_
well i think it's because some time ago someone said something like that but when you look the spec's and the price it doesnt make sens for this cmv12000 sensor. a custom one from cmosis yes that would make ore sens but not this one.
19:13
troy_s
Well if Bertl's demos are any indication
19:13
troy_s
There's a heck of a lot of data that is completely corrupted
19:13
troy_s
(I really wonder how BM deals with that. I wonder if they clip it off too Bertl?)
19:14
troy_s
(Any method you might be able to deduce?)
19:14
tyrone_
it's just a no to cmv12000... but not to cmosis.... so it could be....
19:14
Bertl
I have no clue what BM does, I haven't even looked at their cameras (yet) and I'm not sure I want to ...
19:15
Bertl
I think it is better to focus on our work and the feedback we get (and will get) from testing with e.g. the axiom beta
19:17
tyrone_
+1 for bertl.... your right...
19:23
se6astian
somebody posted about us on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/22x9ry/axiom_alpha_camera_is_this_the_bridge_between/
19:25
troy_s
Bertl: It is obviously not terribly interesting, but being an open project, I can only think that educated assessments of the sensor is fair to release.
19:32
Bertl
yes, but there is nothing new we figured about the cmosis sensor, what cmosis hasn't already published in one of their annotations
19:33
Bertl
(despite the fact that we found it before the ans were released :)
19:35
danieel
tyrone_: the sensor size is not that.. it is the active area
19:35
danieel
the 3840 x 5.5um =21.12 mm
19:36
troy_s
Bertl: Does the ann speak of crufty data at the upper end?
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19:43
tyrone_
danieel: well i find it's not the cmv12000 but it could be a custom one... that safes you cost on the silicon and driver electronics.... i don't say it's not from cmosis....
19:45
Bertl
troy_s: as I tried to explain, there is no 'crufty data' it is just that the sensor doesn't use the full range with the settings we used so far
19:45
Bertl
it is hard to tell if it is a configuration problem or a sensor design problem
19:46
danieel
if you have a BM, take a picture of the sensor so we do not have to judge it by the renders on the website
19:46
danieel
then we can tell if it is that or not
19:46
danieel
Bertl: both ES and production does the same thing?
19:48
Bertl
yes
19:48
troy_s
danieel: I don't think that is good enough to reveal clipping.
19:48
troy_s
Bertl: It doesn't use them because of some secret magic register code or?
19:51
Bertl
there could be a multitude of reasons for that, a flip of an undocumented bit in the register set could fix it
19:51
Bertl
even setting certain known register values to 'better optimized' settings could fix the range issue
19:52
Bertl
for now, I don't want to spend any more time on figuring out stuff which should have been documented by cmosis in the first place
19:53
Bertl
we might be able to setup a remote test platform with the axiom alpha though
19:53
Bertl
so if somebody wants to play around with the cmosis register settings, I think that could be arranged
19:54
Bertl
(i.e. place the camera somewhere with a led lighting facing the old chart with ssh access to the axiom)
20:01
tyrone_
i have got here just the 2.5k version no 4k :-/
20:01
danieel
Bertl: is the 2.5k version similar in programming interface / pixel architecture ?
20:02
danieel
you could get an ES of that, put it in alpha and test if you still get the issue
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20:03
troy_s
Bertl: Amen on the documented part.
20:03
troy_s
Bertl: Web based tweaking? LOL
20:03
Bertl
danieel: 2.5k version?
20:04
danieel
Bertl: sorry, that is another sensor maker (fairchild, not cmosis)
20:04
Bertl
troy_s: yeah, why not
20:04
danieel
troy_s: you can log the commands sent and images getting out... and if you detect it is okay, then look back the log :)
20:09
troy_s
danieel: That would be pretty damn cool.
20:10
troy_s
Cute way to 'Here... play with the camera folks" too.
20:10
troy_s
Put it on a cheapo USB controlled pan unit... LOL
20:12
Bertl
let's see what se6astian thinks and if he finds the time to set something up (e.g. at the university)
20:22
danieel
Bertl: with tyrone we have confirmed partly this article: http://www.eoshd.com/content/12053/successor-blackmagic-cinema-camera-cmos-sensor-announced-possible-hardware-hdr-mode
20:23
danieel
the sensor in 2.5k blackmagic cinema camera is Fairchild (BAE) CIS2521F - http://www.fairchildimaging.com/catalog/focal-plane-arrays/scmos/cis-2521f
20:24
danieel
the pocket camera is FHD, while the sensor size matches (6.5um), but the bonding and the alignment mark does not (or the image from BM is render/photoshop)
20:29
Bertl
still not seeing how that helps us in any way :)
20:31
danieel
looking at those models would not help at all - now we know for sure ! :)
20:33
danieel
can you notice the flaw in real picture? or it is only a calibration issue?
20:33
danieel
could we detect it when somebody would have the BMPC4K ? (i am not sure if they actually have it solved)
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21:13
se6astian
time for bed
21:13
se6astian
good night
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21:24
troy_s
danieel: rexbron has a BMC 4k
21:34
danieel
ok, I ask him for the sensor bonding photo
21:35
danieel
it would be nice to confirm that BM had solved the issue.. then it would be possible to take the risk and snoop the SPI - but that would either solve it or confirm that the issue is fixed in processing
21:35
danieel
gn
22:00
troy_s
danieel: See ya.
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