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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2015/01/13

Timezone: UTC


00:21
troy_s
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01:12
Bertl_zZ
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01:12
Bertl
back now ...
01:13
Bertl
hozer: yes, I can, but the question is probably more if I'm willing to share it
01:13
Bertl
the answer to that question is: yes, if somebody agrees to package and maintain it in a public repository for at least 10 years :)
01:16
Bertl
marcin___: you can do extreme high dynamic range with every sensor by capturing two (or several) images with different exposure times in a sequence
01:17
Bertl
the AXIOM (not Axion) sensors (planned so far) also support HDR modes for a "single" frame exposure with a quite large difference in exposure times, where even/odd pixels get different exposures (which should work for this purpose)
01:43
hozer
so what do you expect the lowest cost sensor + the hdmi output board would be
01:44
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01:44
Bertl
good question, probably the cmv2000 + prallella combo
01:45
Bertl
which might be as low as 700 USD
01:45
hozer
and it will be an open system, so I could do my own fpga-output board, right?
01:46
Bertl
well, it would already contain an FPGA and a 16 core processor
01:47
hozer
ah, okay, so it's a CMV2000+fpga+parallella , right?
01:47
Bertl
the parallella has a zynq and an epiphany
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01:48
Bertl
the zynq is the FPGA (similar to the one on the MicroZed)
01:48
Bertl
and of course, you have full control over it
01:48
hozer
right, and it looks like there is reasonable linux support from Parallella
01:49
Bertl
yes, zynq as platform supports Arch and similar, we used a modified raspian on the Zedboard
01:50
hozer
this would be an interesting project to work on the firmware for
01:51
Bertl
you're welcome to help/work there
01:56
hozer
I think I have to manage my time a little better first, I keep getting into too many interesting projects
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troy_s
Balls.
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08:26
lab-bot
philippej created T258: Create an API. http://lab.apertus.org/T258
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09:51
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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Bertl
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se6astian|away
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se6astian
good day
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Bertl_zZ
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15:14
Bertl
morning folks!
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se6astian
good morning
15:23
alexML
you guys moved to USA? :P
15:24
se6astian
not physically :)
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Bertl
to the left
16:49
comradekingu
So i had a go at the C300 buttons today. They are round, of a hard material, and they are clicky and make a bit of noise. The start stop button is a membrane switch that isnt clicky and doesnt make noise
16:50
comradekingu
the SX-25 canon, or whatever its called, had no clicky buttons, but then again it has few buttons
16:50
comradekingu
I can try the real heavy cameras and see what its like there
16:50
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16:51
Bertl
and would you prefer a click over no click (not talking about the tactile feedback)
17:07
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17:15
comradekingu
Bertl: im not concerned about clicks that much. I guess there isnt an internal microphone to pick up the noise
17:16
comradekingu
I think no click and a little circle in the display to illuminate for every press is the best of all worlds
17:18
comradekingu
And there was a joystick thing on the c300 that also felt bad
17:19
comradekingu
Bertl: these are my favourite nubs, they are strong, can click, even on full actuation, and feel really nice http://datasheet.octopart.com/N40P107-Austriamicrosystems-datasheet-27156644.pdf
17:19
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17:20
comradekingu
I would do one of those for every button, and then you can have fine control over every setting without having to juggle the menus to find it
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17:28
Bertl
okay, noted
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comradekingu
Bertl: i can send you samples if you give me an address
17:46
Bertl
sure, pm
17:49
se6astian|away
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18:10
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18:15
se6astian
thanks comradekingu!
18:16
se6astian
bertl had the idea to put a rotary encoder whereever a button was envisioned around the LCD (https://apertus.org/sites/default/files/project/render-V2-03.jpg)
18:16
lab-bot
V2: Should we invite the team to phabricator? Come Vote http://lab.apertus.org/V2
18:16
se6astian
so we would have 6 rotary encoders but remove the original two encoders
18:16
se6astian
it might be an overkill though :)
18:17
se6astian
having a small pushbutton joystick would be a solution between those two extremes (just 6 button vs 6 rotary encoder knobs)
18:17
se6astian
interesting idea definitely
18:17
se6astian
is the joystick you mentioned 4 way + push ?
18:18
comradekingu
im more of a sliders guy myself
18:18
comradekingu
a slider tells you where you are, better for muscle memory
18:19
comradekingu
on my bike if i forget what gear im in, i find myself rotating to where i shouldnt be
18:19
comradekingu
waiting at a intersection, cue the idiot trying to pedal off at the heaviest gear possible
18:22
Bertl
yeah, well, the idea is to use the encoders for different things, e.g. navigating menues quickly or just adjusting the various settings in a blink
18:23
Bertl
(without the need to push extra buttons)
18:29
comradekingu
But it isnt quick, thats the point
18:29
comradekingu
unless you always start off somewhere, you dont know how many clicks you are away
18:31
Bertl
doesn't matter if you have enough feedback
18:45
comradekingu
i find it easier to know what to do to get to where i want to do, rather than having to figure out where i am first
18:46
comradekingu
i guess the onscreen display of where you are is the most important bit to get right
18:49
lab-bot
BAndiT1983 committed rOPENCINE3d77538fbffc: - Added Prototype project for as playground for testing/ideas (authored by BAndiT1983).
18:49
Bertl
fair enough. but I doubt that a mixing console style remote control is really simpler
18:49
Bertl
just imagine navigating a menu with a slider ...
18:57
aombk
that would be awesome
19:03
Bertl
do you know any device where this is done? :)
19:21
intracube
aombk: no, no, no, no
19:21
intracube
NO
19:23
aombk
thats not the point.
19:26
intracube
what was the point? :)
19:35
aombk
the point is that controllers are awesome if they have a range of different fully assignable knobs, buttons and faders (and other stuff). this maximizes the achievable expression. in my opinion
19:35
aombk
by the way, will the beta be a usb host?
19:37
aombk
so we could connect devices like this? http://www.third-space-mind.com/max/UC33e_controller.jpg
19:38
Bertl
yes, the MicroZed provides an USB host port
19:40
aombk
great. there are archlinux drivers for usb controllers. we could connect a midi keyboard and have beta presets to each key
19:40
intracube
aombk: what would you control with an analogue (non-stepped) fader?
19:41
Bertl
the sound volume? :)
19:41
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19:42
aombk
focus or zoom (when mounts are available)
19:42
aombk
framerate and shutter speed too
19:42
intracube
Bertl: yeah, I guess :)
19:43
aombk
Bertl, too classic :P
19:43
intracube
^ this wouldn't be so good without any sort of steps in the fader
19:44
aombk
intracube, what would be good?
19:44
intracube
I'm not sure of the technical name, but a stepped(?) rotary dial
19:44
intracube
like a mouse scroll wheel
19:45
intracube
framerate usually goes in discrete steps
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19:48
Bertl
that's what we plan to use
19:49
aombk
that would be wrong i think
19:51
Bertl
well, I don't think we can make it right for everyone
19:51
Bertl
but feel free to start a poll
19:52
Bertl
if the majority feels that a slider would be the best choice to select between non linear discrete values, we certainly honor that
19:53
aombk
no im not talking about that. about the stepped thing. professional controls are never stepped.
19:54
aombk
anyway, yes maybe a poll(not only about that but a more general poll) would give a solution
20:14
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
20:14
Bertl
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20:27
hozer
aombk: is it archlinux on the parallella board?
20:27
hozer
what might it take to persuade you to consider debian
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aombk
its not up to me. bertl and the rest of the team chose arch. but i am definitely pro arch
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hozer
aombk: well, I guess I can learn arch then
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22:10
Bertl_oO
hozer: the distro itself will not be _that_ important, i.e. you can probably change it to debian at any time. Archlinux so far was the only distro (besides Xilinux :) which already supported the Zedboard/Microzed.
22:12
hozer
is there a parallella procesing involved too somewhere?
22:12
Bertl_oO
not from our side
22:12
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl
22:13
hozer
okay, I saw someone mention it so I wasn't sure what was involved
22:13
hozer
so the sensor connects to a to a zedboard, and there are some HDMI connectors somewhere?
22:14
Bertl
we plan a version based on the parallella, but at least in the beginning, we won't use the epiphany cores/parallella specifica (except for the HDMI out I guess)
22:14
Bertl
the sensor "connects" to either a MicroZed, PicoZed or Parallella
22:15
Bertl
(where the primary platform is the MicroZed)
22:15
hozer
is it the same PCB for all three?
22:15
Bertl
no
22:15
hozer
(sensor pcb)
22:15
Bertl
yes
22:16
hozer
is there a diagram of all the current PCB options?
22:16
Bertl
not that I know of, we are currently designing those PCBs
22:17
hozer
so is it sensor pcb -> interposer pcb -> *Zed/Parallella ?
22:17
Bertl
yes, actually there will be (at least) two PCBs inbetween
22:18
Bertl
https://apertus.org/axiom-beta
22:18
Bertl
not completely up do date but you see the stackup there
22:19
Bertl
https://apertus.org/axiom-beta-progress-article-two-december-2014
22:22
hozer
what sort of signal integrity levels are you trying to get to for the high speed IO shield
22:23
hozer
because someday I would like to see this get used or developed more https://bitbucket.org/tmagik/infiniband-fpga
22:24
hozer
well this.. http://seniord.ece.iastate.edu/may0904/index.html
22:24
Bertl
the connectors used for the high speed shield will be PCIe 36pin, the lanes will have controlled impedance
22:24
hozer
Infiniband would let you stream rull raw 4K frames to disk
22:25
hozer
I mean full raw 4k frames
22:25
Bertl
there will be at least 6 LVDS pairs available per connector (2 connectors in total)
22:25
hozer
you would have to connect the MGT's to the connector
22:26
Bertl
there are no MGTs on the MicroZed/Parallella
22:26
hozer
okay, doh, nevermind then ;)
22:26
Bertl
still a lot (bandwidth wise) will be possible
22:27
hozer
if you have 4 pairs capable of carring 5ghz you can do DDR Infiniband
22:28
Bertl
you can also do USB 3.0, eDP, 3G SDI and many more :)
22:29
Bertl
ah, forgot PCIe 2.0 :)
22:29
hozer
on microzed?
22:29
Bertl
no, with 4 pairs @ 5GHz :)
22:30
hozer
PCIe 2.0 and Infiniband DDR are the same physical layer ;)
22:30
se6astian
time for bed!
22:30
se6astian
good night
22:30
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
22:30
hozer
well, now I am going to be obessing how to fund a replacement beta board with an FPGA with >5ghz MGTs
22:30
Bertl
night se6astian!
22:31
Bertl
the PicoZed was chosen because it supports the Zynq-7015
22:31
Bertl
(which has 4 MGTs)
22:31
hozer
it does??,
22:31
hozer
okay, where are they wired to
22:32
Bertl
we have not decided yet, but naturally they will be available for expansion cards
22:32
hozer
oh I get it, microzed does not have MGTs, but PicoZed does
22:33
hozer
okay, just please do me a favor and have those MGTs on something that meets PCIe 2.0 signaling requirements ;)
22:34
Bertl
I'm pretty sure we won't waste those MGTs on low frequency interconnects
22:35
hozer
right
22:35
hozer
you want either Infiniband, or http://www.networkworld.com/article/2333226/tech-primers/10gbase-cx4-lowers-10g-ethernet-cost.html
22:35
hozer
or usb3
22:36
hozer
but you have to be really careful about signal integrity for any of these
22:36
Bertl
I'm pretty sure we don't want to do USB 3.0 ...
22:36
hozer
heh
22:36
Bertl
(but eventually somebody will do :)
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22:44
hozer
now this is a good deal if you want to play with a network that can handle raw 4k frames.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flextronics-F-X430066-8-Port-SDR-InfiniBand-External-Switch-USED-/201137294615?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed4b78d17
22:44
hozer
problem is finding cards and cables....
22:51
Bertl
a few years ago, somebody promised me infiniband equippment, but I never got it ...
22:52
hozer
it actually is pretty cheap on ebay
22:52
hozer
I might have some stuff in a box too
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