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| 01:12 | Bertl | back now ...
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| 01:13 | Bertl | hozer: yes, I can, but the question is probably more if I'm willing to share it
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| 01:13 | Bertl | the answer to that question is: yes, if somebody agrees to package and maintain it in a public repository for at least 10 years :)
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| 01:16 | Bertl | marcin___: you can do extreme high dynamic range with every sensor by capturing two (or several) images with different exposure times in a sequence
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| 01:17 | Bertl | the AXIOM (not Axion) sensors (planned so far) also support HDR modes for a "single" frame exposure with a quite large difference in exposure times, where even/odd pixels get different exposures (which should work for this purpose)
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| 01:43 | hozer | so what do you expect the lowest cost sensor + the hdmi output board would be
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| 01:44 | Bertl | good question, probably the cmv2000 + prallella combo
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| 01:45 | Bertl | which might be as low as 700 USD
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| 01:45 | hozer | and it will be an open system, so I could do my own fpga-output board, right?
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| 01:46 | Bertl | well, it would already contain an FPGA and a 16 core processor
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| 01:47 | hozer | ah, okay, so it's a CMV2000+fpga+parallella , right?
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| 01:47 | Bertl | the parallella has a zynq and an epiphany
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| 01:48 | Bertl | the zynq is the FPGA (similar to the one on the MicroZed)
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| 01:48 | Bertl | and of course, you have full control over it
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| 01:48 | hozer | right, and it looks like there is reasonable linux support from Parallella
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| 01:49 | Bertl | yes, zynq as platform supports Arch and similar, we used a modified raspian on the Zedboard
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| 01:50 | hozer | this would be an interesting project to work on the firmware for
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| 01:51 | Bertl | you're welcome to help/work there
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| 01:56 | hozer | I think I have to manage my time a little better first, I keep getting into too many interesting projects
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| 02:04 | troy_s | Balls.
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| 08:26 | lab-bot | philippej created T258: Create an API. http://lab.apertus.org/T258
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| 09:51 | Bertl | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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| 10:40 | se6astian | good day
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| 15:14 | Bertl | morning folks!
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| 15:23 | se6astian | good morning
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| 15:23 | alexML | you guys moved to USA? :P
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| 15:24 | se6astian | not physically :)
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| 16:43 | Bertl | to the left
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| 16:49 | comradekingu | So i had a go at the C300 buttons today. They are round, of a hard material, and they are clicky and make a bit of noise. The start stop button is a membrane switch that isnt clicky and doesnt make noise
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| 16:50 | comradekingu | the SX-25 canon, or whatever its called, had no clicky buttons, but then again it has few buttons
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| 16:50 | comradekingu | I can try the real heavy cameras and see what its like there
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| 16:51 | Bertl | and would you prefer a click over no click (not talking about the tactile feedback)
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| 17:15 | comradekingu | Bertl: im not concerned about clicks that much. I guess there isnt an internal microphone to pick up the noise
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| 17:16 | comradekingu | I think no click and a little circle in the display to illuminate for every press is the best of all worlds
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| 17:18 | comradekingu | And there was a joystick thing on the c300 that also felt bad
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| 17:19 | comradekingu | Bertl: these are my favourite nubs, they are strong, can click, even on full actuation, and feel really nice http://datasheet.octopart.com/N40P107-Austriamicrosystems-datasheet-27156644.pdf
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| 17:20 | comradekingu | I would do one of those for every button, and then you can have fine control over every setting without having to juggle the menus to find it
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| 17:28 | Bertl | okay, noted
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| 17:45 | comradekingu | Bertl: i can send you samples if you give me an address
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| 17:46 | Bertl | sure, pm
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| 18:15 | se6astian | thanks comradekingu!
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| 18:16 | se6astian | bertl had the idea to put a rotary encoder whereever a button was envisioned around the LCD (https://apertus.org/sites/default/files/project/render-V2-03.jpg)
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| 18:16 | lab-bot | V2: Should we invite the team to phabricator? Come Vote http://lab.apertus.org/V2
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| 18:16 | se6astian | so we would have 6 rotary encoders but remove the original two encoders
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| 18:16 | se6astian | it might be an overkill though :)
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| 18:17 | se6astian | having a small pushbutton joystick would be a solution between those two extremes (just 6 button vs 6 rotary encoder knobs)
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| 18:17 | se6astian | interesting idea definitely
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| 18:17 | se6astian | is the joystick you mentioned 4 way + push ?
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| 18:18 | comradekingu | im more of a sliders guy myself
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| 18:18 | comradekingu | a slider tells you where you are, better for muscle memory
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| 18:19 | comradekingu | on my bike if i forget what gear im in, i find myself rotating to where i shouldnt be
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| 18:19 | comradekingu | waiting at a intersection, cue the idiot trying to pedal off at the heaviest gear possible
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| 18:22 | Bertl | yeah, well, the idea is to use the encoders for different things, e.g. navigating menues quickly or just adjusting the various settings in a blink
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| 18:23 | Bertl | (without the need to push extra buttons)
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| 18:29 | comradekingu | But it isnt quick, thats the point
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| 18:29 | comradekingu | unless you always start off somewhere, you dont know how many clicks you are away
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| 18:31 | Bertl | doesn't matter if you have enough feedback
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| 18:45 | comradekingu | i find it easier to know what to do to get to where i want to do, rather than having to figure out where i am first
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| 18:46 | comradekingu | i guess the onscreen display of where you are is the most important bit to get right
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| 18:49 | lab-bot | BAndiT1983 committed rOPENCINE3d77538fbffc: - Added Prototype project for as playground for testing/ideas (authored by BAndiT1983).
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| 18:49 | Bertl | fair enough. but I doubt that a mixing console style remote control is really simpler
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| 18:49 | Bertl | just imagine navigating a menu with a slider ...
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| 18:57 | aombk | that would be awesome
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| 19:03 | Bertl | do you know any device where this is done? :)
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| 19:21 | intracube | aombk: no, no, no, no
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| 19:21 | intracube | NO
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| 19:23 | aombk | thats not the point.
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| 19:26 | intracube | what was the point? :)
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| 19:35 | aombk | the point is that controllers are awesome if they have a range of different fully assignable knobs, buttons and faders (and other stuff). this maximizes the achievable expression. in my opinion
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| 19:35 | aombk | by the way, will the beta be a usb host?
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| 19:37 | aombk | so we could connect devices like this? http://www.third-space-mind.com/max/UC33e_controller.jpg
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| 19:38 | Bertl | yes, the MicroZed provides an USB host port
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| 19:40 | aombk | great. there are archlinux drivers for usb controllers. we could connect a midi keyboard and have beta presets to each key
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| 19:40 | intracube | aombk: what would you control with an analogue (non-stepped) fader?
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| 19:41 | Bertl | the sound volume? :)
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| 19:42 | aombk | focus or zoom (when mounts are available)
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| 19:42 | aombk | framerate and shutter speed too
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| 19:42 | intracube | Bertl: yeah, I guess :)
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| 19:43 | aombk | Bertl, too classic :P
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| 19:43 | intracube | ^ this wouldn't be so good without any sort of steps in the fader
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| 19:44 | aombk | intracube, what would be good?
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| 19:44 | intracube | I'm not sure of the technical name, but a stepped(?) rotary dial
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| 19:44 | intracube | like a mouse scroll wheel
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| 19:45 | intracube | framerate usually goes in discrete steps
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| 19:48 | Bertl | that's what we plan to use
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| 19:49 | aombk | that would be wrong i think
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| 19:51 | Bertl | well, I don't think we can make it right for everyone
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| 19:51 | Bertl | but feel free to start a poll
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| 19:52 | Bertl | if the majority feels that a slider would be the best choice to select between non linear discrete values, we certainly honor that
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| 19:53 | aombk | no im not talking about that. about the stepped thing. professional controls are never stepped.
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| 19:54 | aombk | anyway, yes maybe a poll(not only about that but a more general poll) would give a solution
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| 20:14 | Bertl | off for now ... bbl
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| 20:27 | hozer | aombk: is it archlinux on the parallella board?
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| 20:27 | hozer | what might it take to persuade you to consider debian
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| 20:45 | aombk | its not up to me. bertl and the rest of the team chose arch. but i am definitely pro arch
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| 21:40 | hozer | aombk: well, I guess I can learn arch then
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| 22:10 | Bertl_oO | hozer: the distro itself will not be _that_ important, i.e. you can probably change it to debian at any time. Archlinux so far was the only distro (besides Xilinux :) which already supported the Zedboard/Microzed.
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| 22:12 | hozer | is there a parallella procesing involved too somewhere?
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| 22:12 | Bertl_oO | not from our side
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| 22:12 | Bertl_oO | changed nick to: Bertl
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| 22:13 | hozer | okay, I saw someone mention it so I wasn't sure what was involved
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| 22:13 | hozer | so the sensor connects to a to a zedboard, and there are some HDMI connectors somewhere?
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| 22:14 | Bertl | we plan a version based on the parallella, but at least in the beginning, we won't use the epiphany cores/parallella specifica (except for the HDMI out I guess)
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| 22:14 | Bertl | the sensor "connects" to either a MicroZed, PicoZed or Parallella
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| 22:15 | Bertl | (where the primary platform is the MicroZed)
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| 22:15 | hozer | is it the same PCB for all three?
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| 22:15 | Bertl | no
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| 22:15 | hozer | (sensor pcb)
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| 22:15 | Bertl | yes
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| 22:16 | hozer | is there a diagram of all the current PCB options?
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| 22:16 | Bertl | not that I know of, we are currently designing those PCBs
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| 22:17 | hozer | so is it sensor pcb -> interposer pcb -> *Zed/Parallella ?
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| 22:17 | Bertl | yes, actually there will be (at least) two PCBs inbetween
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| 22:18 | Bertl | https://apertus.org/axiom-beta
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| 22:18 | Bertl | not completely up do date but you see the stackup there
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| 22:19 | Bertl | https://apertus.org/axiom-beta-progress-article-two-december-2014
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| 22:22 | hozer | what sort of signal integrity levels are you trying to get to for the high speed IO shield
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| 22:23 | hozer | because someday I would like to see this get used or developed more https://bitbucket.org/tmagik/infiniband-fpga
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| 22:24 | hozer | well this.. http://seniord.ece.iastate.edu/may0904/index.html
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| 22:24 | Bertl | the connectors used for the high speed shield will be PCIe 36pin, the lanes will have controlled impedance
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| 22:24 | hozer | Infiniband would let you stream rull raw 4K frames to disk
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| 22:25 | hozer | I mean full raw 4k frames
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| 22:25 | Bertl | there will be at least 6 LVDS pairs available per connector (2 connectors in total)
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| 22:25 | hozer | you would have to connect the MGT's to the connector
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| 22:26 | Bertl | there are no MGTs on the MicroZed/Parallella
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| 22:26 | hozer | okay, doh, nevermind then ;)
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| 22:26 | Bertl | still a lot (bandwidth wise) will be possible
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| 22:27 | hozer | if you have 4 pairs capable of carring 5ghz you can do DDR Infiniband
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| 22:28 | Bertl | you can also do USB 3.0, eDP, 3G SDI and many more :)
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| 22:29 | Bertl | ah, forgot PCIe 2.0 :)
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| 22:29 | hozer | on microzed?
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| 22:29 | Bertl | no, with 4 pairs @ 5GHz :)
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| 22:30 | hozer | PCIe 2.0 and Infiniband DDR are the same physical layer ;)
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| 22:30 | se6astian | time for bed!
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| 22:30 | se6astian | good night
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| 22:30 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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| 22:30 | hozer | well, now I am going to be obessing how to fund a replacement beta board with an FPGA with >5ghz MGTs
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| 22:30 | Bertl | night se6astian!
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| 22:31 | Bertl | the PicoZed was chosen because it supports the Zynq-7015
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| 22:31 | Bertl | (which has 4 MGTs)
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| 22:31 | hozer | it does??,
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| 22:31 | hozer | okay, where are they wired to
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| 22:32 | Bertl | we have not decided yet, but naturally they will be available for expansion cards
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| 22:32 | hozer | oh I get it, microzed does not have MGTs, but PicoZed does
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| 22:33 | hozer | okay, just please do me a favor and have those MGTs on something that meets PCIe 2.0 signaling requirements ;)
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| 22:34 | Bertl | I'm pretty sure we won't waste those MGTs on low frequency interconnects
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| 22:35 | hozer | right
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| 22:35 | hozer | you want either Infiniband, or http://www.networkworld.com/article/2333226/tech-primers/10gbase-cx4-lowers-10g-ethernet-cost.html
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| 22:35 | hozer | or usb3
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| 22:36 | hozer | but you have to be really careful about signal integrity for any of these
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| 22:36 | Bertl | I'm pretty sure we don't want to do USB 3.0 ...
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| 22:36 | hozer | heh
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| 22:36 | Bertl | (but eventually somebody will do :)
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| 22:44 | hozer | now this is a good deal if you want to play with a network that can handle raw 4k frames.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flextronics-F-X430066-8-Port-SDR-InfiniBand-External-Switch-USED-/201137294615?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed4b78d17
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| 22:44 | hozer | problem is finding cards and cables....
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| 22:51 | Bertl | a few years ago, somebody promised me infiniband equippment, but I never got it ...
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| 22:52 | hozer | it actually is pretty cheap on ebay
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| 22:52 | hozer | I might have some stuff in a box too
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