#apertus IRC Channel Logs

the goal is uncompressed raw? or maybe compressed lossless or even lossy like other camera manufacturers?

lossless compression is an option of course, but it doesn't help with the 'required' bandwidth in general

youre right

so you wont put any effort in there while you work on beta

so if you feel like crunching down your data till it is unsuitable for post production, so be it :)

you got me there. i like my data heavily compressed

its instant art! you wanna see an example?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25456/art.avi

only x264 produces such beautiful art in low bitrates

Bertl: Hello there!

no comment for the video?

pfff

you know i already have requests from some people to rent them the beta once i get it

okay, I'm off to bed ... have a good one everyone!

All terms such as “crop” are in reference to a standard. In motion picture terms, Super 35's 24mm width is the reference standard. Therefore, the 12000 is not cropped at all. That is, of course, unless you are a stills photographer used to shooting 35mm, or a seasoned VistaVision cinematographer.

I haven't seen it come up in cinematography conversations

aombk / intracube Agree. There are some folks that work professionally that even confuse the dimensions due to that metric. The language is not quite accurate for the “standard aesthetic” of motion pictures for certain.

over 40k!

Now we need to keep momentum, we'll work on this in the following days. Any ideas/help welcome! Curently, I'm preparing for IBC.

morning folks!

some good hints about cmv12000, from somebody who tried this sensor: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/archive/index.php/t-299568.html

yes, there are several analog gain options with the CMV12k, you can read about that and the HDR modes in the publicly available datasheet if you're interested

troy_s and intracube dont like the crop factor phrasing. intracube suggested the use of "Full frame DSLR crop factor" phrasing to avoid confusion with purely cinema people

i dont understand why many dslr and camera/cinema blogs out there dont mention axiom beta. but they talk about other corporate products. they report about iphone 6 but not for the beta. are they expecting to get paid to report news? so many of them?

Bertl: are you there?

im still wondering about engadget, giz, or arstechnica :)

and eoshd maybe

i have sent him 2 emails already about beta

?

alexML's ideas sure gets one's brain ticking tho. especially the stuff about stretching the HDR mode...

ah well, one can always dream

I've been reading up about it recently and it looks like you evenly illuminate the sensor (or filmstock) while shooting to lift up the blacks

which I think means you can capture a much wider dynamic range of the original scene

i admit, i have never heard about those. not here, nowhere else. is that idea similar to backlit sensors?

no, I don't think so

so its for biaising shadows into a region where the sensor might be more sensitive?

troy_s: do you know anything about this technique?

there's a minuscule article about it on wikipedia... seems to be an astronomy technique?

troy_s: flashing/preflashing

intracube: it is purely additive. Washes your shadows. Was frequently done with a color to tint your shadows.

That is post flashing.

http://vimeo.com/86530262

But really, the issue in all of this is shadow noise. If you offset all of the capture, you have only really added fill.

so if you use a flasher to add offset and use filter to reduce gain

don't you make the slope shallower?

Then crunch back the TRC in post.

Aka “learn how to shoot.”

but if that isn't possible, like shooting scenery

and fill is never going to be completely uniform

well, that is a downside. sensor noise/film grain will end up 'magnified'

but with todays low iso, low noise sensors

But in the end, no point if you have the raw integer values. Convert to float, scale.

Same difference I would strongly suspect. The sensor noise firing is what it is.

I've got a variable ND filter which as a side-effect has a very diffuse/even scattering effect

uh, not sure. it's a tiffen variable ND

think so, yeah

Dial as they move toward 90°

it seems to give an effect similar to flashing, lifting the blacks up

at the same time you can reduce exposure

it seems like it enables me to capture higher DR than would otherwise be possible

The base idea is always going to be a battle in display referred devices... No avoiding it.

The sensor I recall can set two knee points (Herb knows better)

in those lines .... im really looking forward to seeing the HDR mode, with the "stairs-like exposure for highlights" ... to see how high could ETTR shadows.

HDR usually has temporal artifacting

And why R3*, in classic fashion, tried to spin lemons into lemon juice marketing.

;)

The adaptation to limitations is likely what evolved the entire diversity of aesthetics.

are those the temporal artifacts you mean?

so a vector-motion analysis & recreated motion blur for highlights should do?

Doubt it. Done a fair bit of OFlow stuffs.

have you seen red hdrx?

i will have a look at them :)

troy_s: by b) granularity do you mean bitdepth?

intracube: Yes. Larger steps trading off for higher latitude.

So you would have to do a merge.

Only method I would speculate to leverage the additional information is an oflow based estimation for the HDR merging. Of course, many projects would find that useful beyond this niche.

i dont see unpleasant anomalies here

and i believe cmosis can do better

Two images. Similar results though. Highlights are where things go into temporal weirdness.

beer awaits

hello designbybeck!

no, that is the contribution for the development

but the final AXIOM Beta will be given to you at cost

And I shoot video/photos with my Canon 6D, does this mean I can use those lens with the AXIOM?

canon EF mount is planned very early, not sure what the Canon 6D uses

I'd say it is probably written on the first few pages of the manual, but folks around here will know for sure

well, if it matches the camera, then it will have an EF mount :)

evening se6astian!

hi se6astian

what? you have not planned a spectacular entrance?

who needs auto focus :)

I'm also very confident that we will be able to address the issue quite soon

yes, the aperture might be a problem though

designbybeck: but as I said, I'm pretty confident we, or somebody else, will work around that pretty soon, it just hasen't been done yet so we can't promise anything there

I'm just here for moral support and to cheer you guys on! :) I'm an Open Source Advocate and have promoted this project a good deal

hello Imagemme!

welcome to our channel!

Thank you.

Ok, well I'd love to discuss your company and any potential synergies in a more private setting. Would a Skype call be more convenient for you?

i.e. you are probably as 'private' as it will get right now :)

So here's my quick pitch (for you and all concerned parties)...

One of our methods for searching out potential new clients is going through the crowd sourcing websites and looking for interesting companies (or community projects) for which we think our services would be a good fit.

I don't know how far along you are in your development, when you hope to be able to launch the camera, however if you're beginning to think about packaging for it, we'd love to send you a portfolio of our work.

okay, fair enough. At some point in Q1 2015 the Beta devices will be ready to ship and then it is probably a good point to talk about your portfolio

Sorry, I didn't understand that last message...

Yes

and want to replace the /good point/ with /good time/

this comes from a tool called 'sed' which is quite popular in unix

the campaign is for the development, and we plan to complete it in spring 2015

Well, once again, it looks like a very exciting project, and I look forward to following its progress.

great! you know where to find us and you probably know the webpage and newletter as well (which is a good way to keep up-to-date)

same to you! cya!

just finished reading the last two days of irc logs ^^

let's hear ...

and i wondered if there will be the necessary pins for controlling the aperture

they/he managed to communicate with nikon lenses

you mean, if the AXIOM Beta will have I/O pins for controlling the lens or if the lens mount will have the electrical connections?

well, my question is

would it be a lot of trouble to design an io interface, which allows to connect pins needed for lens communication to the mounts

so it is dead by standard, but can be brought to life as soon as someone writes the code for it

i am not talking about autofocus, or stabilisation, but aparture controll :)

sorry, my english is not very punctuate at this time ^^

mhhh

i guess it would not be so hard to identify the attached lens mount on the axiom

so it is more a question of, where do we get the pins and connectors, what voltages and currents do we need to control those lenses

but what you could do if you really want to help there

i.e. what you can and can't controll without electrical interface

and how the interface looks like (some images)

not yet, but there is a log

yeah, mhhh i could do that for the nikon mount i guess.

maybe motive a few other folks interested in other systems and create the required info together then?

maybe the ML guys know something about that? i know what i can do, i can talk to the guys on nikonhacker and get them into the job, providing the necessary information to the wiki

right now i am in the situation that i try to quit jobs, to get some time for myself again and i struggle a lot to not get to involved into thoughts about the axiom all day long :D :D

could you create an according wiki article for this case?

you can do that yourself, you just need to register

check a few existing pages how they look like and/or copy one and adapt it to your needs

okay

this for example is an overcrowded page which should be broken down into smaller parts

this on the other hand could benefit from some explanatory text

https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php?title=Special:AllPages

so maybe create a page called Lens Systems?

https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php?title=Lens_Systems

mhhh i never used a normal mediawiki :D

mhhh yeah, mounts

describing the mounts with a small picture (make sure you're allowed to use it)

what else is planned to be supported? i dunno how sonys mount is called for instance

evenongs

seku: hey, how's going?

well, is there a list of the mounts planned to be supported?

Nikon F

Micro Four Thirds

and PL, IMS and Sony E later

ill first use some vintage lenses ... got some takumar and minoltas lying around

are you planning something similar to the moovie? or sensor stabilisation? or somethign completely different?

for certain we will investigate the option to utilize it for image stabilization

of course, anybody can use it for his favorite purpose

for run and gun i mean... at a far far later stage :)

i.e. turn around with the camera in hand and get a nice panoramic image

ims seems to be nice: http://www.pstechnik.de/xe-controller-fz-wireless/a-1708/

ah so late.... gn8

have a good one everyone ...

in austria :)

just noticed now ... the funding campaign ends on my bday. that will be a nice present.

Bertl_zZ: Yes. The rings will focus. But full EF support would need the electronic points and code in the board.

has anyone here tried grading the test footage?