00:02 | Bertl_oO | yeah, well, if you decide to take it apart, make some high resoultion scans of the PCBs
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00:02 | Spirit532 | taking the right side lid off right now
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00:02 | Spirit532 | will see if I can maybe lift it a little
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00:02 | Bertl_oO | then we can speculate which part is what and what it's used for
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00:02 | Spirit532 | what about the image?
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00:03 | Spirit532 | think it can be fixed in post?
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00:03 | Bertl_oO | if you _know_ exactly what's going wrong, chances are good that you can 'fix' it in post
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00:03 | danieel | the calibration data will be on a flash on the sensor board - which is through that flex.. so low chances of fixing it
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00:03 | Bertl_oO | the problem here is that you actually do not know what's going on here
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00:04 | Spirit532 | what I know is that it's static
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00:04 | Bertl_oO | that's good, makes it easier to address
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00:04 | Spirit532 | the curve doesn't change
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00:04 | Spirit532 | and the ISO on this camera is a digital gain anyway
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00:04 | danieel | the 2k5 bmcc has a 256mbit flash, for the 5MP sensor (which is used even in crop mode at ~ 3.5MP)
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00:05 | Bertl_oO | for the FPN corrections or for general calibration data?
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00:07 | Spirit532 | they'll probably be in the same place
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00:07 | Spirit532 | but I just took off the side, nope, no flash on the bottom
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00:07 | Spirit532 | I'd really rather not take it apart further until I'm certain it can't be fixed in post
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02:31 | danieel | I have played with the data... the result is that it is not possible to fix that in the post
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02:31 | danieel | reason is, that the data is already cooked from wrong components
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02:32 | danieel | the sensor offer separate low and high gain readouts, from which you subtract the calibration data, and then multiply one with the gain difference
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02:33 | danieel | so these merge artifacts are in the area wher the lg switches to hg
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02:34 | danieel | had played a lot with a similar sensor (CIS2521F) where i had access to both of those raw channels
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03:02 | Bertl_oO | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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03:02 | Bertl_oO | changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
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04:08 | Spirit532 | danieel, ripping the camera apart... gently
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04:08 | Spirit532 | about 50% of the way through
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04:13 | Spirit532 | danieel, yup
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04:13 | Spirit532 | fuck
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04:14 | Spirit532 | it's a spansion flash that appears to have the teenage problem of 0201 caps growing around it
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04:19 | intrac | left the channel | |
04:32 | Spirit532 | https://i.spirit.re/KCWD0.jpg
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04:32 | Spirit532 | here's the culprit.
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04:32 | Spirit532 | well at least I think it is
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04:33 | Spirit532 | also, yeah, I know, that thermal paste is disgustingly bad
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04:36 | Spirit532 | 64MB
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04:36 | Spirit532 | and... SPI?
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04:36 | Spirit532 | it might be hackable to be honest
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04:37 | Spirit532 | if it doesn't work, I could take it out, read it myself via deadbug
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04:37 | Spirit532 | then buy another one, flash it in
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04:37 | Spirit532 | and solder it back on
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04:43 | Spirit532 | .5mm pitch it looks like
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04:43 | Spirit532 | The package and/or data
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04:43 | Spirit532 | integrity may be compromised if the package body is exposed to temperatures above 150°C for prolonged periods of time.
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04:43 | Spirit532 | and I may kill it further if I reflow, great
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07:34 | BAndiT1983|away | changed nick to: BAndiT1983
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08:26 | intrac | joined the channel | |
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09:00 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
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09:15 | BAndiT1983 | changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
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09:35 | niteesh | left the channel | |
10:28 | danieel | i have that 2K5 board from which the 32MB of flash could be taken off.. but I have no BGA socket/reader for this
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11:56 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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11:57 | danieel | one word of warning - if you preheat that sensor board from bottom (sensor side) then the cover glass of the sensor will delaminate :)
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12:10 | niteesh | joined the channel | |
12:30 | BAndiT1983|away | changed nick to: BAndiT1983
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12:45 | Bertl_zZ | changed nick to: Bertl
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12:45 | Bertl | morning folks!
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12:52 | Spirit532 | danieel, I don't plan on preheating it
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12:52 | Spirit532 | is that going to be a bad thing?
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12:56 | Spirit532 | also I just realized that you're Daniel Rozsnyo, and we know each other
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13:01 | Spirit532 | left the channel | |
13:01 | Spirit532_ | changed nick to: Spirit532
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13:08 | Kjetil | Does the board have buried vias or are there visible vias beneath the BGA?
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13:21 | Bertl | the chip shouldn't be too hard to remove or resolder
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13:21 | Spirit532 | I won't be removing it
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13:21 | Spirit532 | but I think I'm ready now
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13:21 | Spirit532 | https://i.spirit.re/LkF0N.jpg
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13:21 | Spirit532 | emissivity set for epoxy
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13:21 | Spirit532 | I shouldn't overheat it
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13:22 | Kjetil | As danieel said it might delaminate the sensor you should probably protect it somehow
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13:22 | Bertl | well, cooling down the board is nice but doesn't help much
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13:23 | Spirit532 | the sensor is under it and the glass is pretty far away
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13:23 | Spirit532 | Bertl, it's a thermal camera
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13:23 | Spirit532 | I'm watching the temperatures live
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13:23 | Bertl | you need to heat up the BGA balls and the pads
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13:23 | Spirit532 | yep
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13:24 | Bertl | the best way to do that for both reseating as removing is to use a thin copper foil directly on the part
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13:24 | Spirit532 | I'm not removing it
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13:24 | Spirit532 | I'm heating it up until the solder just melts
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13:24 | Spirit532 | and then poking it to reseat the balls
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13:24 | Bertl | attach with some flux and heat directly with the solder iron
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13:24 | Spirit532 | I can't clean it
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13:24 | Spirit532 | so I can't do ultrasonic
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13:25 | Spirit532 | I mean the other way around
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13:25 | Spirit532 | so no flux
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13:25 | Bertl | no need to clean good flux
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13:25 | Kjetil | -"need to" :)
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13:25 | Spirit532 | you need to clean all flux
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13:25 | Spirit532 | :P
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13:26 | Spirit532 | and I don't have anything that good
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13:26 | Bertl | any flux which is labeled 'no clean' doesn't need to be removed
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13:26 | Spirit532 | it's labelled "no cleaner" technically
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13:26 | Spirit532 | it can be rinsed off
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13:26 | Spirit532 | but you can't leave any flux on a board
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13:26 | Bertl | of course you can remove excessive amounts with a special q-tip
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13:27 | Bertl | well, whatever you say :)
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13:28 | Spirit532 | so what should I set it to for unleaded solder in this case
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13:28 | Spirit532 | around 280ish?
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13:29 | Bertl | heat gun or solder iron?
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13:29 | Spirit532 | air
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13:29 | Bertl | you very likely need above 300 for that, better 320-350
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13:29 | Bertl | you also want low air flow because otherwise the small components around it will fly away
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13:30 | Spirit532 | yup
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13:31 | Bertl | note: if it is a bad contact, you also want some BGA flux (that's the completely liquid one) there otherwise a possible broken solder ball will not reconnect
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13:38 | Spirit532 | okay, I got it to float
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13:38 | Spirit532 | tapped it
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13:38 | Spirit532 | https://i.spirit.re/6UZr4.png
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13:38 | Spirit532 | but damn
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13:38 | Spirit532 | this thing soaks up heat like a magnet
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13:38 | Spirit532 | only had a second or two to remove the heat
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13:39 | Spirit532 | sensor glass did not delaminate
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13:39 | Spirit532 | and the rubber seal didn't buble
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13:39 | Spirit532 | bubble*
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13:42 | Spirit532 | should I try float-assembling it on the desk and powering it on, or should I just assemble the whole thing as it is?
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13:48 | Spirit532 | nope, I've decided to assemble the whole thing
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13:48 | Spirit532 | not leaving it up to chance that a missing component makes it not boot
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13:49 | Spirit532 | but first, to photograph the whole thing, for future reference and a stupid article
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14:05 | RexOrCine|away | changed nick to: RexOrCine
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14:13 | danieel | well, the multilayer boards are lot of copper, especially with the shielding planes
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14:14 | danieel | and BM is usually placing copper also on outside, to avoid EMC issues (both directions)
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14:15 | Spirit532 | yeah this thing looks like at least 8 layers
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14:15 | Spirit532 | maybe 16
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14:16 | Bertl | off for now .... bbl
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14:16 | Spirit532 | I'll photograph everything after I take this break, then assemble and see how badly I screwed this up
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14:16 | Spirit532 | :P
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14:16 | Bertl | changed nick to: Bertl_oO
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14:21 | danieel | the fpga is a z7030 / z7045 ?
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14:21 | Spirit532 | I don't see any writing
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14:21 | Spirit532 | will take a look in a bit once I get to photographing the pcb
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14:21 | danieel | have you cleaned it?
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14:22 | Spirit532 | I'm not very keen on taking the heatsink off
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14:22 | Spirit532 | but I guess I will
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14:22 | danieel | not the heatsink.. just the paste
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14:22 | Spirit532 | follow the logic
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14:22 | Spirit532 | where does the paste reside?
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14:22 | Spirit532 | heh
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14:38 | Spirit532 | https://i.spirit.re/9fae3.jpg
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14:38 | Spirit532 | here's a high res(but not full yet, will reshoot) shot of the sensor board with all the chips visible
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14:39 | Spirit532 | the spansion chip has spots now that I look at it
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14:39 | Spirit532 | but I'm pretty sure that's just from me tapping it with the not perfectly clean hot air nozzle
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14:48 | Spirit532 | is anyone here registered on bmcuser for a few months?
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14:49 | Spirit532 | there's someone wanting to buy a dead ursa mini 4.6k, I was going to try to talk to him about me buying his instead, but it seems like I'm still not approved...
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15:28 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
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15:43 | Spirit532 | yeah I'm not taking this heatsink off
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15:43 | Spirit532 | it's ridiculously tight even without screws
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15:55 | se6astian | Spirit532: very interesting insights into this hardware
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15:55 | se6astian | do you wanna share it in the teardowns section of the apertus wiki? https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Teardowns
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15:56 | Spirit532 | I will once I'm done with the photoshoot
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15:56 | Spirit532 | absolutely
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16:03 | se6astian | great!
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16:03 | Spirit532 | at this point I'd love to own an axiom beta
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16:03 | Spirit532 | I just want something that will do 4K60 :(
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16:04 | Spirit532 | buuut it doesn't do internal recording(yet?)
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16:04 | Spirit532 | I think you'd have to sacrifice the HDMI connector to have enough transceivers for SATA, right?
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16:10 | se6astian | no internal recording on the beta yet correct
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16:10 | se6astian | and HDMI output is limited to 1080p60 currently
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16:11 | Spirit532 | any major improvements over the last year-ish?
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16:11 | se6astian | SATA is not in development yet but a USB3 module is hardware complete
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16:11 | Spirit532 | I guess it can be a very expensive machine vision camera :P
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16:12 | se6astian | or very expensive webcam :)
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16:12 | Spirit532 | I have a cmv2k usb3 cam for that
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16:12 | se6astian | 6G SDI plugin module hardware gen2 is also close to being hardware finished
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16:13 | Spirit532 | that's 4k30
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16:13 | Spirit532 | so at least something filmic
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16:17 | felix_ | the hardware has dual 6g sdi outputs and single 6g sdi input
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16:17 | Spirit532 | can't do 12G SDI over 2x6G though, can you?
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16:18 | felix_ | https://github.com/felixheld/AXIOM-photonSDI-hw
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16:19 | felix_ | dual 6g sdi can transport 4k@60fps; should be compatible with 12g sdi if you use one of those magic sdi muxing/demuxing boxes
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16:20 | Spirit532 | it'd be nice to have a single 12G-SDI output and a 3G in
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16:20 | felix_ | the gtps of the artix7 we're using there only supports up to 6g and for 12g we'd need to use a kintex7
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16:20 | Spirit532 | ah
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16:21 | Spirit532 | have an external mux IC?
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16:21 | Spirit532 | or is that usually just done with an fpga
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16:21 | felix_ | that external mux ic would cost more than going to the smallest kintex7 fpga with 12g gtx
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16:22 | Spirit532 | the ultrazed-eg or ev are very nice
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16:22 | Spirit532 | basically a direct upgrade to the microzed
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16:22 | Spirit532 | but with the new mpsoc
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16:24 | felix_ | that would probably require a major redesign of the camera though?
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16:24 | Spirit532 | I don't think they're pin-compatible
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16:24 | Spirit532 | but functionality is just a direct upgrade
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16:25 | Spirit532 | it's a lot more expensive though
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16:25 | Spirit532 | $534 in single quantities
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16:25 | Spirit532 | $440 in 500
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16:28 | felix_ | the GS12070 (12g sdi gearbox chip) costs 100 euros before tx in single quantities
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16:28 | Spirit532 | but since there's two 6G gtps, it would be interesting to see dual SATA3 instead of dual 6G-SDI
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16:28 | Spirit532 | that would allow for full speed interleaved recording
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16:28 | Spirit532 | the same as it does on the ursas
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16:28 | Spirit532 | (cfast is sata3)
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16:29 | felix_ | when the 6g sdi module is finished and the gateware developed, i'm planning to make a sata board. that's mostly removing stuff from the board and add the sata connectors
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16:30 | Spirit532 | either of those would instantly turn it into a proper cinema camera
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16:30 | Spirit532 | :P
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16:30 | felix_ | that's the plan ;)
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16:32 | felix_ | for the sata gateware, litesata can probably be extended without too much hassle
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16:35 | felix_ | iirc litesata is currently only for the kintex7 fpgas, so the phy layer needs to be extended; not sure if some higher-lever things need to extended as well
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16:37 | niteesh | left the channel | |
17:03 | Spirit532 | danieel, nope :(
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17:03 | Spirit532 | reflowing the chip did nothing
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17:03 | Spirit532 | and the hardware id is still "value"
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17:03 | Spirit532 | this sucks.
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18:27 | BAndiT1983 | changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
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18:48 | danieel | nothing unexpected :)
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18:55 | Spirit532 | so I guess all the bits did leak out of it
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19:06 | intrac | left the channel | |
19:14 | illwieckz | left the channel | |
19:21 | Bertl_oO | Spirit532: I'd suggest to make high-res scans as well
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19:21 | Spirit532 | I took 20MP photos
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19:22 | Bertl_oO | not as usefull as 2kdpi scans
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19:39 | intrac | joined the channel | |
19:43 | Spirit532 | I don't have a scanner
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19:50 | illwieckz | joined the channel | |
20:00 | BAndiT1983|away | changed nick to: BAndiT1983
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20:14 | Bertl_oO | you are missing a lot for repairs :)
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20:24 | Spirit532 | money, mostly
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21:30 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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22:46 | BAndiT1983 | changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
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