#apertus IRC Channel Logs

ive been slitently following it since the first sensor test... liked it D

doesnt mean much tho

there's also an integrated NLE, but mileage may vary with that :)

with the basic AXIOM Beta as planned, yes, at least for recording raw movies at high resolution or high framerate

Bertl: for still photography, how would the pics be stored ?

on one of the three microSD cards, or sent via ethernet or on an USB stick

'nite all

intracube: as far as I know the cable buggy has some kind of stabilization

according to se6astian, it was really hard work

https://twitter.com/ApertusOSCinema/status/469491718279421953

no, a cable based system

https://twitter.com/ApertusOSCinema/status/470173623379329024/photo/1

the funny detail was, the Atomos had real problems recording under those conditions, while the Alpha did just fine :)

what was the data recorded onto?

yeah, I can imagine a regular HDD might have problems

especially if the throughput is near the limit of the drive

(according to the indiegogo dashboard)

considering the UK has 1/6th the population

yeah, we have way less visits from the UK as well, so the contribution per visit ratio is like 7-10 times higher for the UK than for the US :)

hey troy_s :)

I'm seeing some slight gauss effect on the test footage if I push the colour correcting hard

heh

troy_s: hmm?

oh, blender

ya

oh, well I'm eyeballing everything

yep

but move it under 1st batch

unfortunately that's not possible with indiegogo

but I'm off to bed now anyway, se6astian will be up again in a few hours and maybe figure out a way

try removing the colon from "AXIOM Beta: Super35 2nd Batch" - it should fix the sorting issue

morning guys, just reading the irc log from yesterday and i came up with an idea, i just want to share with you: i was thinking of what i rly miss right now on the axiom beta, internal recording and a screen. internal recording can be fixxed for quite cheap till the release i think and the screen problem reminded me on this: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/VR-wird-groesser-als-Doom-Spiele-Pionier-John-Carmack-im-Gespraech-2

and with wlan AC, bluetooth 4.0 one can get up to 800 / 700 mbits, a obligatory onboard hardware x264 decoder should allow for a lot of possibilities to make that true

perfect, but we first need to focus on the camera core before we build everything around it :)

Hello everyone !

morning

moarnings

hi se6astian, good going with the funding and the cam. really looking forward to it

nick selection feature works on the irc webpage, as long as one fills the nickname field :-)

great

hello!

morning Bertl :)

quite fine after a good night's sleep

hello

it sure is :)

yeah

it depends on what you want to do I guess

was there a blog post or similar on findings?

ah

so we decided to go with the much cheaper but somewhat compareable TrueSense chip

that makes sense, i see the advantage there for developers

so as they are 'reasonably' similar, we decided to offer both versions

does the cmv12000 have a similar pinout to the cmv8000, as that also is on the beta page

no, they all have different pinouts, but that's not a big problem per se

just so long as the same register sets and etc are onboard

register sets are just software, i.e. you have to adjust them differently

don't forget, with the AXIOM you have control over all parts

im definitely interested in getting one, might have to wait for the gamma though, however i blew a bit of money on a DSLR (which i got for video, which is also many peoples story)

an axiom that is ^ (not the cmv2000)

you're welcome!

I would not bet on that :-)

if i had the money i'd pay for the whole project

no problem there, I was just pointing out that if everybody decides to 'wait' for the Gamma, it is unlikely that there will be one :)

you ditched the cmv8000 ?

Hi sasha, how goes?

I'm well thanks. I feel bad that it's been a long time since I've come online here. Just been very busy with other things in my life. Nice work with the crowd-funding videos!

welcome WAYOFF_!

axiom delta sounds nice

has anyone gathered the sites and blogs that the campaign is mentioned?

aombk: you can check on news.google.com when you enter "apertus".

probably as realistic as all the other sensor specifications given by all the other manufacturers

have you tested?

dynamic range per se is defined by what you judge acceptable on image quality (noise fonr instance)

yes i know but when you shoot dr charts things are less complicated, you see how many stops you can distinguish from the noisefloor and up

Thank you Bert! I've been following axiom for a long time,

yes

aombk: you can find the HDR specs on the sensor datasheet, http://www.betopcom.com/public/images/products/20131126180222.pdf page 32

when i was looking up the cmosis 4000 about half a year ago i came across this http://www.lumenera.com/usb3/index.php

and here https://www.apertus.org/axiom_imagesensor they have a third mode, which is just like ML HDR vido, maybe at higher FPS

with the one like dual iso? I guess about 15 or 16, maybe more if you accept some noise in midtones (but the aliasing can be noticeable)

and with the 3-slope method, it's basically the ZeroNoise algorithm applied on 3 images, in hardware

you can configure the exposure times and the clipping thresholds

i am still downloading the pdf. its very slow.

lol, no

so there may be some motion artifacts even with that mode?

first, it captures a

(unclipped pixels will keep integrating)

thanks. actually i will look into that pdf once it downloads

isnt that similar to mode 2? (shorter exposure time for highlights)

Hi there,

he left about 25 minutes ago

Jc_: can we help you instead maybe?

mh, i think the hdr modes are quite interesting tho ... just that motion blur needs to be added in post

being a european project helps, i suppose

fun times ahead

se6astian: congrats on the speedy start to the campaign

dmjweb: thanks :)

se6astian: perhaps an update is in order?

The sensor at the moment is cmv12000. Is it somehow possible to back this crowdfunding without getting that sensor, and instead waiting for a cmv20000, if that is in the pipeline?

i am very disapointed by http://www.eoshd.com/ he didnt even mention axiom beta and the campaign ta all

Is high fps sensor important feature to you?

the sensor specs are very good and seems to have great potential

Hi, Bertl.

global shutter, hdr mode with 15 stops lots of frames for slowmotion raw 12bit etc

but the main reason is openess

How good is this sensor in low light, relative to canon sensors?

That all depends on demand of course.

CMV12000 has 13 electrons according to the spec

thank you, dmjweb

thank you, alexML. 1 electron of noise different? That isn't much, is it? Wouldn't that be almost the same as Canon's top sensor?

Canon at ISO 100 is very noisy, compared to Nikon/Sony

if you already have a Canon, try shooting video at ISO 100 in low light

alexML, i would like to shoot in available light. I usually need a fast, wide open lens and high iso, say 400 or even 800. Would this cmv12000 (or even cmv20000) be good in these settings?

I think that 12Mp wouldn't be so good for cropping digitally.

(regarding read noise in electrons)

the 6D (best Canon sensor yet) has 6 electrons at iso 100 and 1.7 at iso 6400 - http://www.clarkvision.com/photoinfo/evaluation-canon-6d/

so, in low light, cmv20000 would be log2(8/1.7) = 2.23 stops worse than a 6D (assuming you are shooting at iso 6400)

btw, I didn't analyze any images from the sensor yet - I'm just interpreting the spec, but I might be wrong

Is there a forum for this project, alexML?

thank you for all your help, alexML

I need two DNGs of some static scene, covering from deep blacks to clipped highlights

alexML, how is the dynamic range relative to a canon sensor? Especially rescuing low light

DR in basic mode (without HDR tricks) seems comparable to Canons at ISO 100 (roughly, from spec)

the spec says 15, but I think it can get more

but the increase in DR is on the lower side of the ISO

I am very happy to talk with you, alexML.

Aren't modern day production cameras capable of shooting 4k video RAW, using non experimental?

correction from above: 6D has 29 electrons at ISO 100 (I copied the wrong number)

there's nothing preventing this for the axiom, it just hasn't been made yet

good night

btw a solar flare is coming

Looks like Zynq 7015 can only do PCI-e 2.0 where as one would need 3.0 to fully utilise XP941

My thinking was - if there was a proof of concept that XP941 can be communicated with from a Microzed then perhaps anticipated Axiom Beta specs could be improved with an internal M.2 SSD interface - and bang! people can start looking forward to internal recording. Could that liven up the campaign?

Not even necessarily speaking of having it 100% working at the time of initial hardware shipment. Rather about having internal space for one (or several?) M.2 SSD-s and the internal connectors for them. If the hardware is there software can be added a little later

perhaps both internal M.2 for SSD and a couple of external USB3? does 7015 have enough juice for that? :)

Still trying to answer question of that forum member on divxuser who asked "how do you get 300 fps raw out of the camera" - and my answer is - via USB3 or internal SSD. And then the question is if hardware for these needs to be in the very first instances of Axiom Beta already and in the current ads

the 7015 (which we do not plan right now, for several reasons, but which might be a potential choice for a Beta version based on the PicoZed

for PCIe 2.0 5.0Gigabit per lane is required

which is about 19Gigabit per second uncompressed data

USB 3.0, which is a protocol nightmare, allows for 5Gbit/s transfer speeds

USB 3.1, which is already defined, could do 10GBit/s per connection, so two connections would suffice, but as far as I know there are no real world devices which can handle that speed

now, for the potential solutions on the AXIOM Beta as planned (i.e. without the 7015, as there is no MicroZed with 7015 available)

i.e. double data rate, synchronous transfers and such

this means, that a properly designed shield could easily achieve the same data throughput as the 7015 via those gigabit tranceivers

so it is significantly larger than the entire Beta