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| 12:44 | Bertl | morning folks!
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| 14:50 | se6astian | good afternoon
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| 14:50 | mars_ | morning se6astian
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| 14:52 | philippej | hello here, long time no see !
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| 14:53 | se6astian | indeed, where have you been? :)
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| 14:53 | se6astian | Malte is organizing the Vienna participation in https://oscedays.org/
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| 14:53 | philippej | I was in the real world, almost exclusively :)
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| 14:53 | se6astian | its basically a hackaton about circular economy open source topics
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| 14:53 | philippej | how is it going here ?
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| 14:54 | se6astian | and we can participate, like define a challenge/goal to solve
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| 14:54 | se6astian | what is the real world? never heard of it before....
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| 14:54 | philippej | great !
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| 14:55 | philippej | you probably never met the guy with those red and blue pills
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| 14:56 | se6astian | I am a pill vegan :)
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| 14:56 | se6astian | so we need ideas for the OSCE
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| 14:56 | se6astian | one idea I had was that we could make the camera API the challenge to solve/develop
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| 14:57 | se6astian | but the event should focus very much not just on open source but also on circular economy topics
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| 14:57 | se6astian | which is quite difficult to incorporate in our topics...
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| 14:57 | se6astian | of course we are all for recycling, reusing, modularity, but how to turn that into a challenge to work on together in those few days
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| 14:58 | se6astian | so ideas welcome :)
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| 15:00 | philippej | reading the site
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| 15:04 | Bertl | I think we only match the "open source hardware" and "maintain/repair" part
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| 15:05 | Bertl | so I would suggest to put the focus on that, maybe work on testing the boards and parts and documentation for repair?
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| 15:07 | se6astian | but how do you do that with people who we cant expect to have indepth electronics know how?
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| 15:07 | Bertl | what do we know about the people who will work on "our" project?
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| 16:03 | philippej | do we need to propose a specific project?
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| 16:03 | philippej | you can already bring our experience to the table
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| 16:03 | philippej | another option would be to use the camera for some specific use
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| 16:34 | philippejadin | me again, is there some place that explains the whole image processing pipeline in details? It's on the wiki, but I have some questions :-)
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| 16:35 | Bertl | ask if you have questions :)
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| 16:36 | philippejadin | here : https://wiki.apertus.org/images/c/cc/Image01.png
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| 16:37 | philippejadin | if I understand correctly, there is sensor -> fpga -> memory -> fpga -> hdmi encoder ?
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| 16:37 | philippejadin | with the second fpga pass used to transform raw image into something that is useable by the hdmi encodder
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| 16:38 | Bertl | https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php?title=AXIOM_Alpha_Software
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| 16:38 | Bertl | here with more detail
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| 16:39 | philippejadin | yes that's the page I'm using
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| 16:39 | philippejadin | am I correct with the fpga-> memory -> fpga -> hdmi thing ?
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| 16:40 | Bertl | those are separate pathes, but yes
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| 16:40 | Bertl | sensor -> fpga -> memory
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| 16:40 | Bertl | memory -> fpga -> hdmi encoder
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| 16:41 | philippejadin | the fpga writes to ram the processed "raw" image, then reads it in another part to debater, etc. ?
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| 16:41 | philippejadin | (debayer)
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| 16:41 | philippejadin | then I'm wondering what the shuffle part means
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| 16:45 | Bertl | the shuffle part is to reorder nibbles and bytes to match the various encoder requirements
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| 16:45 | Bertl | on the AXIOM Alpha, we use the very unfortunately connected Analog Devices HDMI chip, which has certain requirements what lanes contain what color information
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| 16:46 | philippejadin | thanks!
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| 16:46 | philippejadin | and the cdc inside the hdmi encoder?
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| 16:46 | Bertl | and with every change to the mode in the AD chip, we need to shuffle the bits around
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| 16:46 | philippejadin | csc, sorry
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| 16:46 | Bertl | that is basically a simple 3x3 matrix which allows for color correction inside the AD chip
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| 16:46 | Bertl | or color conversion that is
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| 16:47 | philippejadin | maybe it' already too specific to alpha to explain the basic pipeline
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| 16:48 | philippejadin | out of curiosity, the interpolation adds some bits for hdmi ?
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| 16:48 | Bertl | we will have a similar pipeline on the Beta, but we will remove some components (like the shuffle), add others (like the TMDS encoder) and slighly adapt/modify the rest
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| 16:48 | se6astian | philippej: do we need to propose a specific project? <- it should be a meta task (for an city planning hackaton it was "plan a school")
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| 16:49 | philippejadin | Bertl, thanks for the clarifications !
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| 16:49 | Bertl | as we can not transfer full pixel data to the AD HDMI encoder (because of the unfortunate wiring) we have to send 4:2:2 format, which requires interpolation
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| 16:49 | philippejadin | ok
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| 16:50 | philippejadin | se6astian: we could find a project that requires some kind of imaging, but I don't really see what it could be. Maybe something that involves computer vision and some big data powder on top of it :-)
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| 19:06 | Bertl | off for now ... bbl
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| 19:35 | troy_s | Bertl_oO: I hope there is more than merely a 3x3 matrix as a matrix only can really work on theoretically perfect data.
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| 19:36 | troy_s | Bertl_oO: (As in it would require a 3D LUT to properly model the sensor to say, 709. See the typical "rat piss yellow" near highlight blooms etc.)
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| 22:41 | Bertl_oO | troy_s: not sure what you're talking about
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| 22:44 | troy_s | The color transform to 709 for that pipe.
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| 22:45 | Bertl_oO | on the analog devices chip, all there is is a 3x3 matrix, 3 offsets and clipping to specific ranges
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| 23:12 | troy_s | Hrm. I guess that explains why so many imaging devices end up with the rat piss yellow highlights issue or something close.
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| 23:15 | Bertl_oO | I think the main purpose of the CSC in the AD chip is to convert to YCrCb from RGB and/or to convert from full range (0-255) to limited range (16-240) and vice versa
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| 23:15 | Bertl_oO | at least that is what the examples show, so I don't think it is intended as generic color correction
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| 23:20 | Bertl_oO | but I doubt we will ever revisit this analog devices chip, it was what we had to use on the Alpha, but that's it
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| 23:28 | troy_s | Gotcha.
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| 23:29 | troy_s | There must be chips out there for sensors that permit a 3D LUT? Or is that specifically part of the FPGA pipe itself?
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| 23:29 | Bertl_oO | yes, we will put that into the FPGA
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| 23:31 | troy_s | There are plenty of video cameras that, as they blow out, have nasty color skew as the highlights roll off. I suspect it is because of a mere matrix on the transform.
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| 23:33 | Bertl_oO | possible
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