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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2017/04/10

Timezone: UTC


00:08
davidak
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00:24
BAndiT1983
changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
02:26
Spirit532_
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02:38
jucar
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05:32
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
05:32
Bertl
morning folks!
06:57
jucar
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davidak
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07:11
davidak
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07:18
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
07:22
se6astian
good morning
07:46
BAndiT1983|away
changed nick to: BAndiT1983
08:38
jucar
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08:48
Frost_
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08:51
Frost_
Hello!
08:52
sebix
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08:53
Frost_
I would love to contribute to the Axiom project.
08:53
Bertl
hey Frost_!
08:53
Bertl
you are very welcome to contribute!
08:53
Frost_
Hi Bertl!
08:54
Frost_
Thank you,
08:54
Frost_
Talk here?
08:54
Bertl
sure, note that the channel is logged though
08:55
Frost_
Yes, I've noticed.
08:55
Frost_
Well, I am Hacene, currently a Master's student in electronics engineering (graduating soon).
08:57
Frost_
I have some skills in digital electronics (VHDL, FPGA, ...) and in programming languages (low/high level C/C++)
08:57
Frost_
and I would love to contribute.
08:58
Bertl
sounds good, you are from algeria?
08:58
Frost_
yes
08:59
Bertl
geoip knows everything :)
08:59
Frost_
indeed :D
08:59
Bertl
so, do you have any areas you would like to work on?
08:59
Bertl
do you have some hardware available? (FPGA devel kits, etc)
09:01
Frost_
I have an Altera DE2 board at my disposition (not that much, I know)
09:02
Bertl
well, that's something
09:02
Frost_
but I might be moving to France in a few months, get my hands on more hardware (camera sensors, fpga ...)
09:02
Frost_
better than nothing i guess lol
09:04
Bertl
bascially FPGAs are all the same, it's not like with processors
09:04
Bertl
they differ in small details, hardened IP, speed and of course the quirks of the development tools :)
09:04
Frost_
exactly
09:05
Frost_
DE2 is mainly used for education.
09:05
Bertl
so, back to areas of interest, is there something specific which interests you in the AXIOM?
09:09
Frost_
the philosophy of the project is what got my attention first. in addition to that, the field of cinema camera's is of interest to me, it relies on various leading edge technologies (optics, electronics, software...)
09:11
Bertl
makes sense ...
09:12
Bertl
well, we have a task tracker (lab.apertus.org) and we recently prepared a number of tasks for GSoC
09:12
Bertl
so you might want to look through open tasks in general, and some of the GSoC tasks in specific
09:13
Bertl
some of the tasks didn't get a proposal for whatever reason, so those might be of special interest
09:13
Bertl
like for example T721 or T731
09:13
RexOrCine[m]
Welcome Frosty.
09:14
Frost_
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Frost_
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09:30
Bertl
wb Frost_
09:30
Frost_
Back.
09:30
Frost_
really sorry, there was a net cut.
09:31
Bertl
you might want to get a proper IRC client as well, the web interface is not the best solution, it is only intended for brief contact
09:31
Bertl
(there are a number of good clients out there available for all platforms, like pidgin)
09:32
Frost_
okay, that's why I was disconnected.
09:32
Frost_
okay, downloading immediately, I don't usually use IRC
09:32
Frost_
but apparently i will be using it frequently
09:32
Bertl
looks like :)
09:34
Frost_
Reading the logs... to check on what I have missed from the conversation...
09:40
HFrost
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HFrost
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Frost_
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HFrost
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09:46
RexOrCine[m]
Riot gives push notifications on mobile. Aside from that I use Hexchat and AndChat.
09:46
HFrost
Back again, I have looked through the task T731
09:47
HFrost
haven't found T721 though
09:47
HFrost
thank you RexOrCine :)
09:47
Bertl
https://lab.apertus.org/T721
09:48
jucar
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09:48
Bertl
there is also T730 and of course older tasks as well as new things we develop
09:48
HFrost
Thank you Bertl
09:48
Bertl
np
09:49
HFrost
Okay, I will be looking for a task that I can contribute to, I will need to read lots of documentations
09:50
HFrost
so, If I need anything, should I contact you?
09:50
Bertl
most likely, your first stop should be IRC though, i.e. ask if something is unclear, you will get some hints
09:50
RexOrCine[m]
How did you come across the project Frosty?
09:51
Bertl
folks around here are very helpful and will point you in the right direction, even if it is just 'ask Bertl, he knows ...' :)
09:51
RexOrCine[m]
Bertl has a continuous charge time of 15 hours.
09:52
HFrost
Okay, I will certainly do, you are very nice people :D
09:52
RexOrCine[m]
And fast charge 3 hour nap time.
09:52
HFrost
lool
09:52
Bertl
you can also tell by my nick if I'm at a computer or asleep
09:52
HFrost
RexOrCine, my brother, who is really interested in the cinema and photography field has pointed me to this project
09:53
HFrost
Okay
09:56
HFrost
I need to go out now. Thank you for your attention :D we'll be talking again soon.
09:56
Bertl
cya!
09:56
HFrost
take care
09:56
Bertl
u2!
10:00
HFrost
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10:16
BAndiT1983
changed nick to: BAndiT1983|away
10:30
Dan3
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10:31
Bertl
welcome Dan3!
10:31
Dan3
Hi all.
10:31
Dan3
Hi Bertl
10:31
Dan3
Hi Rex
10:35
Dan3
Question regardig the camera and logging in, or activating. I can log in fine but I am having trouble getting the blue light flashing indicating all is working. The camera is on, I can talk to it via Terminal but no live pictures. Tried a few things but now stuck, any advise please?
10:38
RexOrCine[m]
What monitor are you using?
10:39
Dan3
HDMI out into Blackmagic SDI convertor to an small Astro waveform which has worked fine many times this way, plus a new Blackmagic monitor with HDMI in directly. Neither seeing anything at the moment.
10:40
Dan3
Also is the blue light flashing the sign that the camera is all well and working correctly?
10:45
sebix
did you start the camera?
10:46
sebix
https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/AXIOM_Beta/AXIOM_Beta_Software#Start_the_camera
10:46
Dan3
Yes I can access root and do some basic commans such as ./kick_manual.sh and reboot but I can't get to actual live camera mode as yet
10:46
Bertl
the blue light flashing means that the trigger is active
10:47
Bertl
that also means that live view is working
10:47
Bertl
the main question now is, is your camera configured to automatically start the live view?
10:47
Dan3
I am in root@beta
10:47
Bertl
if so, then do not run kick_manual.sh :)
10:47
Dan3
ok
10:48
Bertl
if your Beta is configured not to auto start, you want to run kick_manual.sh and upload the output
10:48
Bertl
(e.g. to a pastebin)
10:49
Dan3
ah yes I recall in OSX the Terminal window doesn't go back very far
10:49
Bertl
you might want to use minicom, if not already doing so, that has a 'log' feature
10:50
Dan3
Yes will do this and then message her you have the copy from the manual.sh command, thanks
10:50
Bertl
i.e. you can enable logging to a file and then upload that, or you can interrupt live console output and scroll back in history
10:53
Dan3
I used one that 'records' the screen and you essentially rewind to see all the output info
10:53
Bertl
sounds complicated :)
10:54
Dan3
Quite easy like a video and you scroll back, onto it now will pastebin the output once completed :-)
10:56
Dan3
iTerm it is called
11:01
Dan3
https://pastebin.com/Hc77AEHV
11:04
Dan3
Camera is powered and working I have 1 x green light on and 1 x red light flashing bottom left if looking from the rear.
11:07
Bertl
well, looks good so far, now did your camera auto-start live view before?
11:08
Dan3
Yes it was working beofre and I recorded the HDMI output for testing so video was all good.
11:08
Dan3
Let me change the HDMI cable to rule that out
11:08
Bertl
okay, let's run 'systemctl status cmv12k' then and see what it outputs
11:10
Dan3
cmv12k.service
11:10
Dan3
Loaded: loaded (/etc/systemd/system/cmv12k.service; disabled; vendor preset:
11:10
Dan3
Active: inactive (dead)
11:10
Dan3
lines 1-3/3 (END)
11:11
Dan3
https://pastebin.com/p3RsxgHZ
11:11
Dan3
sorry pastebin better new one above
11:11
Bertl
so the auto start is disabled, let's run
11:12
Bertl
./kick_manual.sh now and upload the output
11:13
Bertl
if it loops, breat it with ctrl-c and upload the output so far
11:13
Dan3
I am stuck at lines 1-3/3 (END) window is locked can I restart via the top button or exit terminal to come back in?
11:14
Dan3
ctrl-c and rebooted now
11:14
Bertl
hmm, why reboot?
11:15
Dan3
no sorry I mean ./kick_manual.sh command is now working
11:15
Dan3
Actually it is looping will cut and send what it has ouput so far
11:16
Bertl
okay
11:16
Dan3
https://pastebin.com/F1ffu8n9
11:18
Bertl
okay, that doesn't look too good .. link training fails, which means that you have a problem with the connection to the sensor
11:18
Dan3
Ah :-(
11:19
Bertl
power off everything, double check that the front two PCBs are correctly attached
11:19
Dan3
ok
11:19
Bertl
i.e. wiggle them a little bit to see if they are properly connected
11:20
Bertl
make sure that there are no extra forces on those PCBs, like from a lens system, etc
11:21
Rex0r
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11:23
Dan3
ok done a little bit I have a lens connected a Samyang EF version thats it
11:24
Dan3
There is that top silver release looks like for the sensor right at the front
11:25
Bertl
yeah, what about it?
11:25
Dan3
nothing really just pointing it out in case that needs a little jigglle also
11:26
Bertl
no, that should be fine, unless you want to pull out the sensor (which I won't suggest)
11:26
Dan3
no not really :-)
11:27
Bertl
okay, power the camera again, logon and run the kick_manual.sh
11:27
Bertl
if it loops, stop it with CTRL-C and upload the output so far
11:28
Dan3
running now
11:29
arpu
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11:30
Dan3
https://pastebin.com/quGXHpHD
11:30
Bertl
okay, that looks better now
11:30
Dan3
:-)
11:30
Bertl
you are still missing most of the LVDS lanes
11:31
Bertl
so it is definitely a connection problem
11:31
Bertl
I would suggest to unplug everything and go through all the PCBs one by one
11:31
Bertl
checking that they are connected properly and no unwanted forces are applied
11:32
Bertl
especially the two frontmost boards but also the other two won't hurt
11:32
Spirit532_
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11:33
pusle
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11:33
Dan3
Just jiggle them whil they are srewed together or loosen the bolts a little and jiggle a bit more
11:34
pusle
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11:48
davidak
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11:50
Bertl
well, you can try the former first (and retest)
11:50
Bertl
and if it fails, losen the bolts and jiggle a bit more
11:51
Bertl
typically this kind of problem is caused by mechanical stress to the board stack
11:51
Bertl
and the most common cause being a heave lens system without support
11:52
RexOrCine[m]
Maybe take a picture of how it's rigged.
11:52
Dan3
Thanks having a go now and once you remove the bottom tripod mount the whole rig loosens up, will try it a bit and loosen more see what happens, first go nothing trying agian now
11:55
Bertl
you can also test without any HDMI connected
11:55
Bertl
i.e. just with serial console or ethernet and power
11:55
Bertl
camera will still activate live view and pulse the blue light
11:56
Dan3
removed the HDMI also trying a kick.sh now. thats the question once that blue ligh it on that shows the comms is back as such?
11:57
Dan3
silly question is the unit getting enough power? Like a drive booting it needs that extra kick?
12:02
Dan3
Front housing section off now as well doesn't seem to connect to anything. Quite easy to do the front boards they pop out and back in again.
12:03
Dan3
The front sensor board just removes easily, how much further can I go now :-)
12:03
Dan3
Do all five just slide apart
12:05
davidak
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dimaursu16
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12:12
Dan3
i have a blue light
12:13
Bertl
excellent!
12:14
Dan3
kick
12:15
Dan3
sorry the kick manual reloaded and then stopped at the login then blue light came on rebuilding unit now
12:16
Bertl
yep, that's how it should be
12:17
Dan3
just repeated and the blue light came on during the new boot sequence after kick manual command line entered.
12:18
Dan3
rebuild now and try again.
12:40
Dan3
Blue light HDMI output is showing a flickering screen now so something is being outputted. Will try to set the correct output next.
12:41
davidak
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12:43
sebix
the blinking rate is the framerate
12:45
ItsMeLenny
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12:50
Dan3
The screen is showing just random bright blocks there is no live actual image just rubbish electronic flickering. Looking at the HDMI settimgs
12:52
Bertl
rubbish electronic flickering sounds strange
12:52
Bertl
how's the screen connected to the camera?
12:53
Dan3
108030P imahe changed the HMDI cable it is now just pink noise but I can just see the axiom logo bottom right. Not a live image just pink noise
12:54
davidak
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davidak
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12:54
Bertl
we haven't implemented pink noise yet :)
12:55
HFrost
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HFrost
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12:58
Dan3
it comes and goes going to turn off and on again etc :-)
12:58
Dan3
It is all wacky mode now but a signal though :-)
13:02
Dan3
now have an imagge and axiom logo but it is covered in the same pink and now green noise like a non debayered image if you see what I mean
13:02
Bertl
no, I don't _see_ it, maybe you can record a few frames and upload somewhere?
13:04
sebix
sounds like the rgb image is interpreted as yuv
13:05
Dan3
Yes thats what it looks like sebix good shout, thanks.
13:06
Bertl
well, for now, we always output RGB 444 so, check what the receiver 'thinks' it is
13:06
Bertl
if it says YCrCb, then something is wrong
13:07
Dan3
it only stays live for about 10 seconds
13:09
Bertl
then happens what?
13:11
Dan3
So I have an image that is RGB but is covered now in light green noise while I can see the live image also behind this.
13:12
Dan3
fixed pattern noise reeally but green with magenta speckles
13:12
Bertl
sounds strange, again, let's go back to the question: what's the setup (i.e. recorder, screen, etc)
13:12
Bertl
and more importantly, did it work before?
13:12
Dan3
going to turn off and on again
13:14
Dan3
Live images lasts for about 10 seconds same nosie image, Axiom B logo can be seen bottom left.
13:15
Dan3
Unplug HDMI cable and try again picture comes back for 10 seconds and goes again.
13:17
Dan3
Other HDMI I have doesnt work at all so will try another newer HDMI cable in case this is the weak link
13:18
Bertl
unlikely that the cable is the only cause for this
13:18
Bertl
please elaborate on the setup and involved devices
13:18
Bertl
(also, did it work before?)
13:20
aombk2
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13:22
Dan3
HDMI out via a Blackmagic converotr then SDI into a monitor. Also I have a Blackmagic monitor with HDMI directly in, using both methodes
13:23
aombk
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13:26
Bertl
and both show the same 'wrong' colors?
13:27
RexOrCine
Aye a picture of the set-up might be important.
13:27
Dan3
The BM monitor cannot show the HDMI directly into it, only via the SDI convertor
13:28
Bertl
how's that?
13:28
Dan3
going to try a PC HDMI screen
13:28
Bertl
yes, that is a good idea, but <50Hz might be a problem for a PC monitor
13:31
sebix
Dan3: only some blackmagic devices support rgb444, as the industry standard is yuv422
13:32
sebix
had the same issue 1/2 year ago
13:33
RexOrCine
He reckons he had this same setup working in the past.
13:34
Dan3
This has worked before and I used the SDI convertor to record 1080P30 rushes last year so I know it is all good in that respect
13:35
sebix
and now you have 1080p30 too?
13:35
ItsMeLenny
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13:35
Dan3
Yes
13:41
arpu
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13:43
Dan3
It is the BMVA unit I have here also but this can't see anyhting via HDMI only via converted SDI
13:44
Bertl
so how does the PC monitor do?
13:46
Dan3
Nothing I am afraid, trying a normal TV next just to try it out.
13:47
sebix
for the monitor you probably need to switch to 1080p50 or p60
13:52
Dan3
Plugged into my normal HDTV it is all looking normal, so must be settings in the other kit.
13:56
Dan3
Put the UV filter on all is fine. Thanks all I will now tinker with the BM SDI unit so I can record some images for tomorrows testing shoot, with Tesla EVs :-)
13:57
Bertl
great! you're welcome!
14:06
Dan3
well who knows just plugged the BM box SDI convertor in and it is fine?
14:07
Bertl
I'd say the converter was confused before :)
14:07
BAndiT1983|away
changed nick to: BAndiT1983
14:10
Dan3
now the BMVA works via SDI in but not directly via HDMI but now I can record 1080p30 SDI feed from camera :-)
14:10
Bertl
excellent!
14:27
Dan3
Thanks all, some of the usual things signals getting confused and so forth, so now I switch everything off and on again and all is found. Now the 4K still capture and I am done, cheers have a good night.
14:31
Bertl
you too
14:58
Dan3
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davidak
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BAndiT1983
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sebix
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BAndiT1983|away
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jucar
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se6astian
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Elbehery
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20:24
niculescu_vlad
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20:24
niculescu_vlad
Hello
20:25
niculescu_vlad
I took a few photos at the Peltier stack cooled camera
20:25
niculescu_vlad
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fhsyagz98n97f3r/AACmHq4y_5UbLVPgxCJH54Aha?dl=0
20:30
BAndiT1983
interesting, seems really difficult to find good position for cooling when the pins are responsible for air gap, at least it looks like a small air gap
20:31
BAndiT1983
have you compared normal and cooled picture?
20:32
niculescu_vlad
Yes. I did it with the previous system. I set the gain to maximum to make the performance decrease visible
20:32
niculescu_vlad
and than I cooled the sensor
20:33
niculescu_vlad
The performance was definitely visible, but it is quite difficult to maintain the temperature low with such a small radiator
20:34
niculescu_vlad
The difference was visible *
20:34
BAndiT1983
you could try to shoot fotos in a refrigerator, if you manage to keep light on when the door is closed ;)
20:34
BAndiT1983
*photos
20:34
jucar
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20:35
niculescu_vlad
Interesting experiment.At least I can let the camera in refrigerator for 15 minutes and than take a rapid shot
20:37
BAndiT1983
to be precise, you should try the freezer, usual refrigerator can go down to -20° or so
20:37
BAndiT1983
at least one whichhas a freezer
20:38
niculescu_vlad
We tested it at night on plain, where are maximum four degrees Celsius.
20:39
BAndiT1983
also interesting -> http://www.hamamatsu.com/jp/en/technology/innovation/imaging/index.html
20:41
Roopal08
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20:43
niculescu_vlad
That s really cool. I have been a member of a NGO (http://vanguard-technology.org/members) focused on rocket building for 3 years . We also wanted to build a rocket tracker in order to track our launched rockets
20:43
niculescu_vlad
Unfortunately, we didn't have time for that, because rocket buiding itself took us a lot of time
20:47
BAndiT1983
like the old saying (which i'm forgetting to follow myself ;) ): don't chase two hares at once
20:48
BAndiT1983
ah, thought already that i'M your former neighobr
20:48
BAndiT1983
*neighbour
20:48
BAndiT1983
was born in the country to the right of you
20:49
niculescu_vlad
Oh...that's cool. Which country?
20:49
niculescu_vlad
Moldova or Russia?
20:49
BAndiT1983
moldova, but i'm not moldavian
20:49
BAndiT1983
my ancestors are russian more or less
20:50
niculescu_vlad
And do you speak Romanian?
20:51
BAndiT1983
it was foreign language in the school for me, haven't remembered much as it was long ago
20:53
niculescu_vlad
I understand. Anyway, very unexpected thing. When you told me you were born near Romania remembered me how small the world is.
20:54
BAndiT1983
i know ;) alexML is also from romania, so the world is smaller than we imagine
20:55
BAndiT1983
still wondering how the cameras survive the hit on the ground, watched the ICARUS video
20:56
BAndiT1983
candy fuel reminds me of the mythbusters episode where they used gumbears and other things to launch the rockets
21:00
niculescu_vlad
Yes. That was quite fun. We also wanted to experiment liquid fuel, but we encountered some problems in finding the proper fuel pomp and oxidizer pump
21:00
niculescu_vlad
My colleagues still struggle to solve this
21:00
niculescu_vlad
The Icarus camera didn't have a direct impact
21:00
BAndiT1983
how is the efficiency of solid and liquid fuel?
21:01
niculescu_vlad
It is not about the efficiency, it's about the time spent in air
21:01
niculescu_vlad
the liquid fuel can last much longer
21:01
BAndiT1983
not only that -> http://howthingsfly.si.edu/ask-an-explainer/whatâs-difference-between-liquid-and-solid-fuel-rockets
21:01
niculescu_vlad
and can maintain the rocket in air
21:01
BAndiT1983
liquid can be controlled
21:02
BAndiT1983
don't know if solid can be adjusted with nozzle closure
21:03
niculescu_vlad
Yes, of course. This is another huge advantage. Liquid is controlled by controlling the pump debit
21:03
BAndiT1983
https://www.google.ch/patents/US2720749
21:03
BAndiT1983
seems like the patent is older than we are :)
21:03
niculescu_vlad
Yes, but as far as I know, nobody managed to implement this in Romania
21:04
niculescu_vlad
This was also a motivation
21:05
niculescu_vlad
I have to go to sleep. 00:04 am here and I have an assignment tomorrow.
21:05
BAndiT1983
this is a good thing to have motivation
21:05
BAndiT1983
oh, have a good night, wish you success
21:08
niculescu_vlad
Yes, it is. That is why my main activities during faculty were student competitions. Winning awards and learn new things at those was a very good motivation. In addition, I am very glad I am not as foreign as I thought. (other people from Romania or surroundings here)
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jucar
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niculescu_vlad
Thank you! Good bye!
21:08
BAndiT1983
bye
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21:54
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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Bertl
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