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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2015/12/09

Timezone: UTC


02:25
slikdigit
left the channel
04:13
comradekingu
joined the channel
04:13
comradekingu
Of the last 6 articles i edited, none of them saw any changes. Makes me sad.
04:46
intracube
comradekingu: how do you mean?
04:48
comradekingu
I mean the last 6 articles i edited are just sitting there, where nobody can see any changes
04:51
intracube
doesn't understand apertus.org's CMS
04:52
intracube
notices he's no longer asked to proof-read articles
04:53
intracube
oh well :P
04:53
intracube
I probably made too many structural changes
06:47
tezburma
joined the channel
06:56
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
06:58
se6astian
intracube: actually its because we now have a dedicated proofreading person employed :)
06:58
se6astian
but if you want I can still forward some drafts to you
08:20
intracube
se6astian: ah ok :)
08:20
intracube
and if you need another pair of eyes, I'm happy to help
08:35
LordVan
joined the channel
09:37
Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
09:37
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
10:15
tezburma
left the channel
10:28
tezburma
joined the channel
13:45
comradekingu
It used to be that i got asked beforehand to edit, now its as i see things go live
13:46
comradekingu
I dont know whos proofreading, but thats not the biggest problem. For what its worth, the editing and articles ive changed are proofread by a proper brit
13:57
aombk2
from what i read, the amazing sony a7s and a7sII low light performance is achieved to an extent by sophisticated noise reduction
14:05
LordVan
left the channel
15:02
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
16:06
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
16:06
Bertl
morning folks!
16:08
Bertl
comradekingu: it seems to me (note that I'm not authoring those articles) that the author(s) of said articles do not like the changes you force on them
16:09
Bertl
that is something which one has to respect IMHO,, so did you try to limit your creativity to actual proof reading?
16:10
Bertl
note that I also completely understand that you want/would write those articles completely different (there is nothing bad in that), and if you want to spend the time to make an 'alternate' version, I would really investigate the option
16:11
Bertl
of having a separate 'version' maybe as language selection
16:41
comradekingu
Im not forcing anything on anyone, im editing. That is up for review the same way my edits were carried out
16:42
comradekingu
Proofreading is just a minor adjustment, ive shortened the text a lot, brought outside clarity, and improved the language
16:43
comradekingu
By and large, creativity, artistic or original intent is not at play or risk.
16:45
comradekingu
I want apertus to be the apertus ive found expressed while digging through the archives, a community of open video
16:46
comradekingu
Nobody loses anything of value if the level of clarity and professionalism is kicked up a notch
16:49
Bertl
I understand your point, but I think you have to understand as well that if you change the style, the author might not like that, which in turn results in other useful corrections not being integrated
16:50
comradekingu
Im open to that
16:50
Bertl
so if you feel like you need to do both, maybe split it up in two sets of changes for a start?
16:50
comradekingu
One is not the issue
16:50
Bertl
i.e. spelling/grammar corrections in one change
16:51
Bertl
and style/content changes in another?
16:51
comradekingu
Its like asking a designer or videographer "did you limit yourself to corrections of colour-space"
16:52
comradekingu
Its language, its english, it communicates a message, how that is interpreted is not irrelevant
16:52
comradekingu
My ability to do something about it is on offer
16:53
Bertl
note that I'm not involved in the articles, I'm the tech person working on hardware and software
16:53
Bertl
but I'm trying to mediate here, as I see that both sides invest a lot of time and both are unhappy with the results :)
16:55
comradekingu
The actual changes I do ends up being done, by someone else, in a mediocre way.
16:56
comradekingu
Its like asking you why you work on software and hardware, you arent randomly doing it
16:57
comradekingu
You have some aspiration, you have some goals, you are at some point aware that it needs to be put forth in a format that isnt software or hardware
16:58
comradekingu
Everything is there, it just needs to be syndicated. And the problem is, the solution. The outside factor.
16:59
comradekingu
Either its a closely-knit society that knows best what its doing, and does it alone. Or its a community, in a broader sense.
17:00
comradekingu
For whatever the software and hardware is, great. For communicating that to an audience, no.
17:01
comradekingu
The difference there is the actual definition of what makes that audience. Is it people who are techical to see beyond the communication.
17:01
Bertl
you know that we are working as a community, but the very same as I do expect others to follow my coding style and guidelines when they modify my code and want those changes to get integrated in my repository
17:01
comradekingu
Or, does the communication serve a purpose to any and all, novice and pro.
17:02
Bertl
I understand that the author of an article doesn't want the article to be completely rewritten in a different style
17:02
comradekingu
Good, lets have the same for communication
17:02
comradekingu
This is not a issue of style
17:03
Bertl
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want e.g. sebastian to rewrite a genuine article you wrote in his favorite style (ignoring grammar and syntax for now)
17:03
comradekingu
Of course i want that, and then I as the author get to react to it
17:03
Bertl
so, as I said, I see several options here:
17:04
Bertl
a) you start wrinting your own articles and I'm sure there will be a way to publish them on apertus.org as long as they are related :)
17:04
comradekingu
If someone came along, like me, doing work and giving good reasons for doing it, i'd be amazed
17:04
Bertl
b) you separate proof reading from style changes and the authors can then pick whatever they like
17:05
comradekingu
Writing articles isnt what i do
17:05
comradekingu
Nor is it proofreading
17:05
Bertl
c) you create an alternate version of the existing articles which follow your style and we figure out a way to make them available
17:05
comradekingu
That just avoids the issue
17:06
comradekingu
That would atleast be somewhat useful
17:06
Bertl
if you have other suggestions, please do not hesitate
17:06
comradekingu
When i present the apertus project to people, i point them to Encrypted messages
17:06
comradekingu
ups, i meant https://www.apertus.org/home-wip
17:08
comradekingu
And if i could share articles that I deem ready to serve a reader, that would be a bonus
17:09
comradekingu
To avoid the whatever personal attachment there may be, the de-bayering article was/is a good example
17:10
comradekingu
It was partly about de-bayering, which nobody in here seemed to like, and which i found hard to read
17:10
comradekingu
Then it was about shoodak, and control of the craft, which didnt fit
17:11
comradekingu
It saw some edits, largely proofreading-level, and its still poor
17:11
comradekingu
That reflects on the apertus project, because to an outside user, the articles served on apertus is apertus
17:12
comradekingu
If novice users, like me, have a hard time reading it, and advanced users, like you, find it to be so-so, then we have a problem
17:13
comradekingu
Its very much the same with the level of welcoming and information on apertus in itself, the very message of it
17:13
Bertl
that's the problem with having several authors and thus individual taste and style, some articles will be great, others not so, and all lies in the eye of the reader ...
17:14
comradekingu
Big words and acceptance-speeches dont quite cut it if the proof in the pudding isnt where those qualites are to be found
17:15
comradekingu
Wikipedia has the most authors in history, and the quality isnt just a matter of throwing all editorial efforts to the wind
17:15
comradekingu
Readers arent unique, communication is not a black-art
17:16
comradekingu
Let me do a live example of how i think this plays out
17:17
comradekingu
User visits apertus.org and hits the landing page
17:17
comradekingu
"The goal of the global community-driven apertus° project is"
17:17
Bertl
as I said, you're barking up the wrong tree here, I'm neither interested nor active in creating, moderating or publishing those articles
17:17
comradekingu
Now that should be globally, or have a comma behind global, this is proof-reading, not the issue
17:18
comradekingu
variety suggest a variation over a theme we have yet to establish
17:19
comradekingu
im one sentence in, and the most important thing to convey is that its powerful, as a goal. Nobody aims to make underpowered or weak things, so thats one superlative for the wind
17:20
comradekingu
Now we get to "free", without the quotation. Which is inversly explained as not un-liberty
17:21
comradekingu
Which, if I at this point understood what Free in terms of hardware was, would be great, but i dont, because its not explained
17:21
comradekingu
And if i did already, what good is the text to me, it does nothing of interest
17:22
comradekingu
Speaking of which, im losing interest as a reader here. "Product line" of what?
17:22
comradekingu
So crowdfunders and EU grant people believes in it, why?
17:22
Bertl
maybe the web pages need a discussion (talk) section for each page (as on beforementioned wikipedia)
17:22
comradekingu
Is it an alturistic motive to get people out of garages, that they were previously in,,?
17:23
comradekingu
This is it, this is what we are doing, you question my ability, i question your rationale
17:23
comradekingu
"Hollywood has discovered the AXIOM as the first chance to reclaim control of the tools and therefore cinematography."
17:23
comradekingu
In what measure is this discovered, and more importantly, how
17:24
comradekingu
Well, good promises laid, but here ends the text
17:24
comradekingu
We are left to guess the intent and meaning
17:25
comradekingu
It reads like a generic PR-announcement, devoid of info, high on buzz.
17:25
comradekingu
If you served me 10 of those, for different products, id be hard pressed to pick the one that was as unique to the others as apertus is
17:26
comradekingu
And that is tragic
17:29
comradekingu
This is how things are, its not esoteric.
17:30
comradekingu
If we can forget the who wrote what, and condence the actual information down to size, as i did, there is every reason to get people to care in return
17:32
comradekingu
Im using my free time, nothing i ever did has my name on it, just acknowledge the issue of communication and move on fixing it.
17:35
comradekingu
A better backend doesnt fully come to terms with it, the comments are made in retrospect. I
17:35
comradekingu
I'd rather there was a preview, editing, decision-making, proofreading, and then publishing.
17:37
comradekingu
And for the apertus message, my take on it is the home-wip, and my satirical edit of https://apertus.org/ars-electronica-10-years-digital-communities-article-nov-2015
17:41
comradekingu
The role of a newsdesk is to be there, for good reasons. Doing nothing is an active decision.
17:42
comradekingu
I love apertus, and i want to share that with the world
18:11
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
18:19
slikdigit_
joined the channel
18:19
slikdigit_
changed nick to: slikdigit
18:20
slikdigit
left the channel
18:20
slikdigit
joined the channel
18:42
aombk2
what articles are you talking about?
19:16
comradekingu
aombk2: https://apertus.org/project-elmyra-article-july-2015 https://apertus.org/axiom-beta-roadmap-article-july-2015 https://apertus.org/from-cameras-to-colors-to-creativity-article-august-2015 https://apertus.org/what-is-debayering-article-october-2015 https://apertus.org/ars-electronica-10-years-digital-communities-article-nov-2015 https://apertus.org/axiom-beta-hardware-complete-first-moving-images-team-talk-8-article-december-2015
19:22
comradekingu
If we focus on the apertus message. Establishing that it has to do with cameras, how is it different in terms of software, documentation and hardware. What is the project and its message, and what about history and footprint.
19:23
comradekingu
What i would like to add to that is a generic overview of acheivements/where we are
19:24
comradekingu
Something like http://neo900.org/static/plan.png but more timeline, and more interaction of how to pay/help out
19:26
comradekingu
https://apertus.org/axiom-beta-roadmap is really good
20:58
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
21:11
tezburma
left the channel
21:19
slikdigit
left the channel
22:23
Bertl
off for a nap ... bbl
22:23
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
22:40
slikdigit_
joined the channel
22:44
slikdigit_
left the channel
22:56
slikdigit_
joined the channel