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05:39 | Bertl | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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09:16 | surami | morning
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10:23 | se6astian | good morning
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10:42 | lab-bot | sebastian closed T160: invite all crowd funding backers to the lab as "Resolved". http://lab.apertus.org/T160
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11:09 | surami | #help
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11:10 | se6astian | grab this rope!
| 11:10 | se6astian | throws safety buoy
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12:01 | intracube | control concept v3: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-esn_bhh1MXw/VIWbLKA8VkI/AAAAAAAAA-o/nxk0HUotv94/w750-h562-no/apertus_control_v3e_processed4.jpg
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12:58 | se6astian | back
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12:59 | se6astian | the first perks have been shipped!
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13:49 | Bertl | morning folks!
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13:59 | se6astian | good morning
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14:02 | Konstantin | Hello everyone
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14:02 | se6astian | Adobe sent a draft for extending the cinemadng standard with some new tags for camera manufacturers
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14:02 | se6astian | Bertl: you wanna take a look and provide feedback?
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14:03 | se6astian | I see for example that they offer tags like cameraPosition v3f (3 floats)
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14:03 | se6astian | for storing IMU data
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14:04 | se6astian | I am not familiar with the standard though so I dont know what changed compared to the last approved standard
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14:04 | se6astian | hi Konstantin
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14:05 | se6astian | but I am sure we can research the changes if we consider it worth the effort
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14:17 | Bertl | Hey Konstantin!
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14:18 | Bertl | se6astian: I'm not familiar with the standard either, you might want to get Gabe involved
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14:18 | se6astian | good idea
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14:18 | se6astian | I know we wont write raw cinema dng data that soon
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14:19 | Bertl | yes, unlikely with a well supported MLV format nearby
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14:19 | se6astian | but considering its the only widely supported AND open raw standard and they ask us to participate in it we should consider it carefully :)
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14:20 | se6astian | MLV is another option indeed, but has much less industry support so far
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14:20 | Bertl | Konstantin: so, IIRC, you want to help with electronic design?
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14:20 | Konstantin | oh yes i hope i can Bertl
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14:21 | Bertl | well, sounds good to me, are you already familiar with the current designs?
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14:23 | Konstantin | i've looked into some of the parts
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14:24 | Bertl | let's hear what you figured out on your own so far and please do not hesitate to comment or critizise
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14:26 | Konstantin | So far i only saw some of the digital circuits im not quit sure that i found all what i should
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14:27 | Konstantin | I have to say im a heavy analog guy not that i know nothing about digital but im not so into programming unfortunately
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14:28 | Konstantin | Some of the layouts u have done are quite good, i know from my self a layout is never finished so u will always find something, miner details
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14:29 | Bertl | yes, indeed, that's why I'm always interested in feedback
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14:29 | Bertl | I remember that you mentioned power management in your email, is that something you would like to work on?
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14:31 | Konstantin | yup Power management would be something and i thing that is portably easier to integrate
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14:31 | Konstantin | if u need any help in that area
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14:31 | Konstantin | im open to every thing ;)
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14:32 | Bertl | well, we have a very ambitious plan there, so it's probably an interesting challenge
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14:33 | Konstantin | i think too
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14:33 | Bertl | first, we want to accomodate a wide range of supply voltages, basically 5-40V, but not necessarily with the same board
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14:34 | Bertl | we've done some successful test with a switching regulator to cover the 6-35V range so far
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14:34 | Bertl | but we also plan to have flexible supplies for the sensors
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14:34 | Konstantin | ok but the rage is not that difficult
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14:35 | Bertl | good to hear :)
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14:36 | Konstantin | depends on the specs, of curse
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14:36 | Bertl | the sensor board is designed to have up to 6 voltages available, which can be limited in range by the sensor board, but can be regulated by the Beta power supply (via processor control)
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14:37 | Bertl | the interface board (which goes between sensor and Beta board) has another two voltages
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14:37 | Konstantin | so we have 6 different voltages ones plus the 2
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14:37 | Bertl | at least two of the sensor voltages need to be capable of up to 1.5A
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14:37 | Bertl | and the interface board supplies need to be able to do similar
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14:38 | Konstantin | probablythe biggest issue would proabably be the space for the differnt supplies
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14:39 | Bertl | yes, space is definitely an issue
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14:39 | Konstantin | witch powerlevels are involved like over all for the sensor Supply etc
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14:40 | Bertl | we can assume that the voltages lie between 1.2 and 4.0 V probably more 1.25 and 3.8V
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14:40 | Bertl | the interface board will most likely require 1.8 to 3.3V
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14:40 | Konstantin | ok that what i thougt for the core voltages for the sensor
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14:41 | Konstantin | is there currently a spreadsheet witch the "needed" supplies and there raitings?
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14:41 | Bertl | each sensor brings their own list
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14:41 | Bertl | if you check out the CMV12000 datasheet, you will see a list for this particular sensor
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14:41 | Konstantin | probablyproabably the supply for the sensor should be in some places low nois and stuff
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14:42 | Bertl | yes, the sensor supply must be low noise (i.e. well conditioned and filtered)
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14:42 | Konstantin | jup clearly
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14:44 | Konstantin | ok but the good thing is that the supply powere is not that big so that makes it easy
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14:45 | Bertl | to some degree, the tricky part is to keep the voltage variable, while limiting it to the "allowed" ranges for each sensor
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14:46 | Konstantin | ok the limits have to be set by the software and the rest is up to the control loop of the supply
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14:47 | Bertl | the current plan is to enforce the limits via hardware and from the sensor side, to prevent accidents
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14:48 | Bertl | so basically the sensor tells the power supply (with two signals) that a provided voltage is over or under the desired range
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14:48 | Bertl | s/sensor/sensor board/
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14:48 | Bertl | and if that is the case, no power will be supplied to the sensor
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14:49 | Konstantin | that is one way of dooing it how is the voltage detectet by the sensor itself ore the circuitry on the board?
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14:50 | Bertl | the circuitry on the sensor board
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14:50 | Bertl | sec
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14:50 | Bertl | http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/BETA/axiom_beta_sensor_cmv12000_v0.12.pdf
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14:51 | Bertl | argl, sec
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14:51 | Konstantin | ok then we have to be carefull not to disturb the control loop
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14:52 | Konstantin | i have the board plans i will have a short look
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14:52 | Bertl | please reload, it should now contain all pages
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14:53 | Bertl | on page 3, you'll see the mechanism which checks the voltages
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14:54 | Konstantin | ok u will use different refs
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14:54 | Bertl | it is basically a voltage reference, plus six comparators, which compare the provided voltage "sample" with the configured (via resitor ladder) range
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14:55 | Bertl | and then generate over/under voltage signals accordingly
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14:55 | Bertl | the eeprom on page 2 provides information about those ranges as well as a default value for each voltage
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14:56 | Konstantin | ok over that u can get the conditions
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14:58 | Konstantin | ok but that still means the voltage has to be comanded
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14:59 | Bertl | yes, the process is like this:
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14:59 | Bertl | the sensor is connected and the beta powered up
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14:59 | Bertl | the beta board checks for the eeprom and reads the identification as well as the ranges and default voltages
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15:00 | Bertl | it then decides to go for the default voltages (for example) and thus configures the appropriate voltages on the power subsystem
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15:00 | Konstantin | i figured
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15:00 | Bertl | the sensor board immediately checks the voltages and gives the okay feedback via over/under voltage signals
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15:01 | Bertl | this is the point where the power sequencing can start
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15:01 | Bertl | i.e. the beta board can now enable the actual voltages to the sensor
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15:01 | Konstantin | and if it is out of grage u can powere of ore regulate
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15:01 | Konstantin | jup ok
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15:02 | Bertl | if one of the over/under voltage lines triggers, the power subsystem should cut off all power to the sensor
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15:02 | Bertl | until manual intervention from the beta board
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15:02 | Bertl | (i.e. new phase of power sequencing)
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15:02 | Konstantin | of curse
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15:03 | Bertl | within the ranges, the power subsystem should do the best to regulate the voltage
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15:04 | Konstantin | atleast if the voltages are out of the window u can detect it fast and react, if the stettings are not correct and a sensor is not that cheap :)
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15:04 | Bertl | correct, that's the idea behind it
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15:05 | Konstantin | i would do it the same way
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15:05 | Bertl | I had a simpler concept first, which basically used power mosfets to short-circuit in overvoltage conditions (which would be harmless because of the current limited supply) but I decided to choose a more complex but also more flexible design instead
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15:06 | Bertl | sensors are usually in the 400-1600 EUR range, so they are worth a little extra efford to protect them
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15:07 | Konstantin | i know both solution if ur power supply is well enough design u can switch fast enough
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15:07 | Bertl | so does that sound like something you would want to work on?
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15:07 | Konstantin | the complexer one is often used in expensive gear
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15:08 | Konstantin | definitely!
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15:08 | Bertl | great! then let's get started! :)
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15:08 | Konstantin | how many people are actually working on the beta itselve
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15:09 | Bertl | very much depends on what you consider "working on"
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15:10 | Konstantin | maybe more precise on the hardware?
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15:10 | Bertl | as you probably saw from the schematics and board layouts, most of the hardware design is done by myself, with some help and contributions from mars_ and Gabe
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15:10 | Konstantin | is probably easier to answer
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15:10 | Konstantin | ok good to know
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15:11 | Bertl | so for coordination, checking with me is probably more then enough
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15:11 | Konstantin | ^^
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15:11 | Konstantin | one good thing is that u are using eagle too
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15:11 | Bertl | if you have questions regarding the existing designs, or if you want to bounce off a few ideas, feel free to do so any time
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15:12 | Bertl | yeah, Eagle is more a left over here, we still plan to switch to KiCad at some point, but I've been using Eagle for a long time now and thus I'm very comfortable with it
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15:13 | Konstantin | i used eagle for the last 6 yeras
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15:13 | Konstantin | is there any like FTP were i can find projects Documents and stuff?
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15:14 | Bertl | documentation is mostly on the wiki, but you won't find much documentation about the hardware (yet), as this is still a to-do
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15:15 | Bertl | you can find the designs either on my server (http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/BETA/) or on github (once I checked them in :)
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15:15 | Bertl | if you have questions, do not hesitate to ask
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15:15 | Konstantin | ok maybe it would be a idear to work out a hole powere plan makes designing much easier
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15:16 | Bertl | sounds good to me, I'll help where I can
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15:19 | Konstantin | it is probably better if we talk about these things. IRC could be a bit involved,
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15:20 | Bertl | IRC is fine, and we have a log if we want to revisit something
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15:20 | Konstantin | ok
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15:21 | Bertl | and in the occasion that somebody wants to contribute anything, she/he is free to do so
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15:23 | Bertl | maybe somebody even starts transcribing the ideas to the wiki at some point, which would save us spending more time on documentation
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15:23 | Konstantin | i will try to look into the supply an work out a sheet where we can list the specs so we can use it an probably a concept too
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15:24 | Bertl | great!
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15:24 | Konstantin | i will scream next time in IRC wen i have news
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15:25 | Konstantin | se ya all
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15:25 | Bertl | cya
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15:31 | se6astian | I need someone to review an english article draft again, anyone around (native speakers?) ?
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15:32 | surami | bye all
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16:52 | lab-bot | derkiki created T213: A entry level low price version of the Axiom. http://lab.apertus.org/T213
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19:11 | danieel | se6astian: are you subscribed to some DNG mailing list or did adobe approach you directly?
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19:11 | danieel | i have also some extra flags to add (rolling shutter direction and timing)
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19:59 | se6astian | mailing list
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20:00 | se6astian | I can add you to the list
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20:00 | se6astian | which email address should I subscribe?
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20:03 | lab-bot | rgerst created T215: LED light (1 or 2) either built into front of camera or on small extender arms. http://lab.apertus.org/T215
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21:08 | lab-bot | christophvarga created T216: phabricator, communication, web, basic understanding of this interface. http://lab.apertus.org/T216
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22:24 | se6astian | time for bed
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22:24 | Bertl | good night!
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