01:13 | dmjnova | 160k!
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01:14 | Bertl | \o/
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01:22 | theuberkevlar | I couldn't help myself. I picked up another super 35 perk. We'll see if my brother wants it. :)
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01:23 | Rebelj12a | joined the channel | |
01:25 | Rebelj12a | Hmm
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01:26 | derWalter | mh?
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01:26 | Bertl | welcome Rebelj12a!
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01:28 | Rebelj12a | Hey yeah following this closely. Fantastic is all I can say. Always been a fan and run Magic Lantern the pairing of ML with Axiom is perfect.
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01:29 | Bertl | thanks! we think so too!
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01:30 | derWalter | the only ppl out there, thinking something else are BM, Sony, R3D and Arri :P
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01:32 | Rebelj12a | Hey I have Blackmagic and I love it, but a Linux run professional camera really appeals to me on so many levels.
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01:36 | theuberkevlar | Rebelj12a, why "Hmm"?
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01:37 | Rebelj12a | Oh because too often these days IRC is empty. I don't know confuses people or sonething.
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01:38 | theuberkevlar | aha
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01:39 | Rebelj12a | I'm really glad the crowd funding goals were met. I just can't justify a camera that doesn't have built in recording. As much as I wanted to.
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01:40 | Bertl | that's fine
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01:40 | Bertl | we are aware that the Beta won't be the perfect solution
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01:41 | Rebelj12a | Yeah I'm all in for gamma though. Will there be crowd funding for that model?
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01:41 | theuberkevlar | Yeah. It's only a matter of time before somebody comes up with a good solution though.
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01:43 | theuberkevlar | But I had to think about it for a while too. I figured, I'm in no rush to upgrade to a completely working retail 4k production camera, so it seemed like a good idea to help support the Axiom campaign/open source movement in the mean time, and I'm sure we'll end up with something awesome in the long run. :)
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01:44 | theuberkevlar | And be supporting open source products that I think will really make a difference for a lot of people.
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01:45 | Rebelj12a | Oh yeah, someone will. I've been looking at android Dev and other options. DSLRController even though its not technically a DSLR would be great.
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01:47 | Rebelj12a | Yeah I've always been a fan of open source. Hopefully it will effect technology business models in the future as well. I mean with all Magic Lantern has done and Canon still has it closed well they make their choices.
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01:50 | Rebelj12a | Been working on a (at some point) wireless follow focus and lan arduinoc control for the BMCC. I mean I'll open source it and how to make it once its done, the programming itself is quite simple in all honesty. Everything builds when more people have knowledge.
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01:54 | aombk | its amazing the campaign funds just go up and up
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01:56 | Rebelj12a | Its always amazing to watch. Like the Potato Salad Kick starter XD
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01:56 | aombk | you could ask indiegogo to extend the campaign for a year
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01:56 | aombk | you will make millions
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01:57 | Bertl | maybe, but we want to make a Beta :)
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01:58 | aombk | yes but just imagine a 5 year indiegogo campaign
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01:58 | aombk | it would be awesome
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01:58 | Bertl | at least for indiegogo :)
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01:58 | aombk | right
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01:59 | Rebelj12a | Ah campaigns need to run their course, helps build up and hold anticipation.
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01:59 | aombk | but my campaign is not going so well
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01:59 | aombk | sorry apertus team i dont think i can get the perk
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02:00 | Bertl | yeah, I checked regularily ... unfortunately it is still in the early stage
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02:00 | theuberkevlar | Rebelj12a yeah I use DSLRcontroller on my canon cameras. It is pretty neato. :)
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02:00 | Bertl | Rebelj12a: have you considered working on a follow focus for the Beta yet?
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02:03 | Rebelj12a | Well the less than 1sec response time with the TPLink for wireless monitoring is awesome. Never expected that.
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02:03 | Rebelj12a | Oh well the follow focus I'd program again is simplistic. It will run off arduino and connect via 15mm rod to any system.
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02:04 | Bertl | got some images to illustrate?
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02:04 | aombk | anybody knows about finished campaigns? can i edit them after they are over?
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02:05 | Bertl | no idea here, first campaign as well
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02:07 | Rebelj12a | Just the parts. No images yet. Its 1 of a few projects I have going. Still buying the arduino pieces as I can. Touch screen, SD card shield, for prototyping. Saving money by recycling knobs and buttons from old electronics however final product will be similar to the Redrock version, although larger, dual 15mm attachment, since I want to put a gearing system in for different speeds.
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02:08 | Rebelj12a | I have sketches though
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02:08 | Bertl | care to show us?
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02:11 | Rebelj12a | Sure
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02:13 | Rebelj12a | Let me find them
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02:14 | Rebelj12a | I designed it around Redrocks rig, like I said its more of a personal project. Made it to slide right on the handle of the shoulder rig.
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02:15 | Rebelj12a | Ah bollocks its at the office. Don't know about you guys but its 8:15pm here hah
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02:15 | Rebelj12a | I'll be on tomorrow and post it.
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02:15 | Bertl | no problem
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02:16 | Bertl | well, it's past 3am here :)
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02:18 | Rebelj12a | Oh wait found it other notebook hah. Oh jeeze late night.
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02:19 | Rebelj12a | Hmm can't paste links?
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02:19 | Rebelj12a | http://imgur.com/wBZMBDb
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02:19 | Rebelj12a | Ah nevermind
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02:20 | Rebelj12a | http://imgur.com/7GurcMr
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02:20 | Rebelj12a | I have a perceived upgrade map. Start with buttons move on to momentary knob switches.
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02:21 | Rebelj12a | Started as a personal project to link h4n recording and BMCC recording. Then I was just disappointed the power of arduino would be so underused just for that so.
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02:21 | Rebelj12a | Expanded.
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02:21 | intracube | changed nick to: intracube_afk
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02:22 | Bertl | so what's the current and planned feature set?
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02:27 | Rebelj12a | Ah current is success with activating recording and built in lanc functions using arduino. Friend of mine has a 3d printer, going to fabricated a control module and run it to the arduino so all the buttons are mapped. Wired connectivity and buttons working-then wireless-then follow focus module and programming-wireless between controller and arduino, presets and auto saved settings for specific cameras and lenses. Auto focus end
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02:28 | Rebelj12a | Trickiest part there is honestly just making sure I can arm and start recording automatically with the h4n so audio is synced in post. The rest is just time.
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02:28 | Bertl | I see
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02:29 | Rebelj12a | Near the end though if its too taxing on the arduino I'll have to set up android functionality and USB control. Leveraging the more powerful processor.
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02:31 | aombk | so this 4k sample dng you posted on the campaign is without olpf?
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02:32 | Bertl | correct
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02:32 | Rebelj12a | Either way time is my enemy. I'm not a Dev or manufacturer, gotta make the money first. Plus the Ronin is giving me a devil of a time. Might have to send it back think there's something wrong with the tilt motor.
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02:34 | Rebelj12a | In any case why do you ask?
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02:35 | Bertl | mostly because I'm interested in learning about those things
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02:35 | Rebelj12a | Hah fair enough
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02:35 | Bertl | it might not be obvious, but I'm somewhat new to all movie camera
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02:35 | Rebelj12a | If you can pick up an arduino loads of fun.
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02:36 | Rebelj12a | Everyone starts somewhere. Hah
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02:45 | Rebelj12a | Is the Axiom based off Linux? Or is it running a full custom Linux is?
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02:47 | Rebelj12a | O.o Black magic camera update brb
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02:52 | Rebelj12a | Ah in camera formatting.
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03:24 | wescotte | Rebelj12a: are you using the ardunio to tell both camera and h4n to start recording at the same time? Or are you syncing clocks on both devices?
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03:24 | Rebelj12a | BMCC doesn't have timecode sync. Yeah telling them to both start at the same time.
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03:28 | wescotte | How well does that work? Do you find that telling either device to record pretty predictable in how quickly they actually start recording?
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03:29 | wescotte | or is it like telling the BMCC to start recording the delay could be anywhere from 10ms to 300ms sorta thing?
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03:29 | theuberkevlar | left the channel | |
03:34 | Rebelj12a | I haven't had a chance to test it. Its a side project. I'm assuming there will be some delay since its over lanc. To reduce delay I was researching directly bit driving the outputs and bypassing the fabricated interface. Haven't done enough research and testing to make sure that will work yet.
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03:34 | Rebelj12a | If anything a few ms is better than whole seconds though
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03:39 | wescotte | sounds like an interesting project. Hopefully since both devices use solid state storage the delay it consistent and thus you program around it
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03:39 | intracube_afk | left the channel | |
03:55 | Rebelj12a | H4n zoom uses SD. Either way that I can always change timing by position of the initial arm and record press
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04:05 | Bertl | off to bed now ... thanks to everyone for this very successful campaign!
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04:06 | Bertl | have a good one and cya!
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04:06 | Bertl | changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
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06:03 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
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06:41 | Paperhat | se6astian: Congratulations! Can't wait till April.
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06:43 | Paperhat | Just curious, can backers of the s35 expect a slight discount due to the higher volume of that sensor being ordered?
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06:49 | se6astian | hi Paperhat, probably yes, we will thoroughly check prices once we have the total number of cameras
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06:54 | g3gg0 | uh oh
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06:54 | g3gg0 | approaching 170k
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06:56 | Gegsite | (Y)
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06:59 | g3gg0 | a user named samuli.torssonen donates 800€ - is this the producer of iron sky? that would be really cool :)
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07:02 | vince__ | joined the channel | |
07:04 | se6astian | :)
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07:04 | se6astian | time to go to wokr
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07:05 | se6astian | see you later
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07:05 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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07:06 | g3gg0 | cuu
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07:13 | __anton___ | joined the channel | |
07:14 | __anton___ | Hi Sebastian! Congratulations again on a successful campaign.
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07:15 | __anton___ | Would you mind looking at my thoughts on heat management/body design? I know that document is way too long - I really endulged myself :)
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07:15 | __anton___ | http://octoray.co.uk/axiom/
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07:20 | Gegsite | I see you are using freecad just as I do
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07:22 | daFred | joined the channel | |
07:25 | daFred | nice morning folks!
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07:26 | __anton___ | Gegsite: yes it's FreeCAD, my first attempt to sketch anything with it
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07:27 | g3gg0 | left the channel | |
07:27 | daFred | __anton___: good document, needs some time to work through...
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07:28 | seku_ | joined the channel | |
07:28 | seku_ | mornings :) felt like rejoining for the last few minutes of the campaign
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07:31 | mars_ | 170k!
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07:31 | seku_ | yes, incredible. would have been enough for another stretch goal *grins*
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07:32 | seku_ | they are still selling. 172 now
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07:32 | mars_ | indeed
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07:34 | daFred | our goal is to find a reasonable body design to keep the costs as low as necessary. So the costs of the mechanical parts should be below 1000 EUR when the sensor costs 1000 EUR and Zedboard 300 EUR.
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07:36 | seku_ | whoa, will mechanical amount for that much?
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07:43 | __anton___ | daFred: press F5 on my doc, did some fixing.. hope I managed to get the ideas across :)
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07:44 | daFred | 1000 EUR is not the estimated price for mech. parts but you cant get a plastic body for 5 EUR. Even the mold for one are +30k EUR.
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07:46 | seku_ | ah, understandable
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07:46 | daFred | There are a couple of very precise parts where we can't save money...
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07:47 | __anton___ | left the channel | |
07:48 | seku_ | lens and sensor mount i presume
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07:48 | daFred | yesss
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07:54 | wescotte | Congrats guys! That's one heck of a finish!
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07:54 | Paperhat | left the channel | |
07:55 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
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07:57 | se6astian | the last 3 minutes
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07:57 | se6astian | official countdown
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07:57 | daFred | hi sebastian, is this a wet dream?
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07:57 | se6astian | Actually I had rather nervous dreams :)
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07:57 | wescotte | Curious... Does Indiegogo let you extend the time?
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07:58 | se6astian | as the last perk was running out....
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07:58 | se6astian | yes indiegogo lets any campaign extend it one time to a total of 60 day campaign duration
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07:58 | se6astian | 90 seconds!
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07:59 | se6astian | 50 seconds
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07:59 | se6astian | 20
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07:59 | se6astian | 10
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07:59 | se6astian | 5
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07:59 | se6astian | 4
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07:59 | se6astian | 3
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07:59 | se6astian | 2
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07:59 | se6astian | 1
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08:00 | se6astian | 0
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08:00 | mars_ | over!
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08:00 | se6astian | hurray
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08:00 | daFred | yipieyeeee
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08:00 | se6astian | 174,520 €
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08:01 | wescotte | Well, now what? :)
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08:01 | mars_ | a big, shiny office
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08:02 | daFred | on the bermudas..
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08:02 | wescotte | One last tab open in the old browser
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08:03 | daFred | or cayman islands...
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08:04 | wescotte | one less...
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08:08 | dmjnova | congrats everyone!
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08:09 | vince__ | left the channel | |
08:16 | se6astian | thanks!
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08:19 | Even | good morning! i see the stretchlimousine goal was reached. happy day!! =)
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08:27 | philippej | joined the channel | |
08:28 | seku_ | ah, was that the hidden 170k goal
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08:32 | daFred | the hidden goal was at 175k :-(((
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08:33 | seku_ | ahh, so close
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08:33 | Juicyfruit | congratulations se6astian and everyone who worked hard to reach this !
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08:34 | philippej | Morning everyone, I just discovered what hapened "tonight". This is crazy great !
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08:41 | KurtAugust | joined the channel | |
08:42 | philippej_ | joined the channel | |
08:42 | KurtAugust | Ok, once again congratulations! Coming from the -ahem- last funder of the campaign!
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08:43 | se6astian | Thanks!
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08:43 | se6astian | KurtAugust: you waited for the last minute :D
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08:44 | se6astian | actually I just got an email from someone who waited one more minute
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08:44 | se6astian | and wasnt able to donate anymore :)
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08:45 | philippej | left the channel | |
08:47 | daFred | you could extend the campaign "in private" with donations on the apertus page. leave a message on the campaign site...
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08:48 | KurtAugust | Yes and no, it wasn't my first donation. But, great fun anyhow. You were right when you wrote on the ML forum how campaigns usually gain momentum at the end. Seems like there will already be a big difference between the first beta that leaves and the last one. So many batches!
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08:57 | seku_ | maybe someone should sell upgrade trip flights to vienna
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08:57 | seku_ | :D
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08:57 | __anton__ | joined the channel | |
08:57 | Rebelj12a | Well congrats everyone!
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08:57 | se6astian | thanks :)
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09:01 | daFred | __anton__: thank you for your input, we will keep it in mind because the current designs is not final for sure...
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09:01 | se6astian | some stats
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09:02 | se6astian | the final campaign day (last 24h) was the strongest in the entire campaign
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09:02 | se6astian | € 36,000
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09:02 | se6astian | stronger than launch day (second strongest day): € 28,000
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09:02 | mars_ | yeah, i went to sleep when it was around 135k
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09:02 | mars_ | and suddenly 174k!
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09:04 | Even | 1.5k per hour. impressive!
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09:05 | derWalter | joined the channel | |
09:09 | derWalter | moin
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09:09 | derWalter | sooooo.... where does the party take place?
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09:11 | seku_ | vienna i suppose.
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09:12 | derWalter | hehe, hope so, but when and where is the question :)
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09:13 | seku_ | maybe they are already off celebrating :)
| 09:13 | mars_ | opens the first bottle of champagne
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09:14 | seku_ | i opened one yesterday. for my birthday, and the best bday present ever :)
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09:17 | KurtAugust | joined the channel | |
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09:19 | derWalter | hey man, i got 175000€ as birthdaypresent!!!!
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09:20 | seku_ | :D
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09:24 | wescotte | left the channel | |
09:31 | derWalter | for windows users: http://dimio.altervista.org/eng/ the tool Dsyncronize rocks!! (syncronizing two folders in realtime)
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09:39 | Topic | apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | Currently Hot: AXIOM Beta Crowd Funding is Live: http://igg.me/at/axiom-beta | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
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09:39 | se6astian | has set the topic | |
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10:42 | daFred_ | Se6astian: what do you think about setting a donations link on the campaign page as there will be still a lot of traffic there for some days....
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10:53 | philippej__ | daFred_, we'd like to make it fair for those who trusted us and comited -in time- for the campaign. Else in 5 years we'll still be selling axiom beta vouchers:-) Otoh, the donation page is up. Beside, we'll come up with a solution quickly for those who discovered the project too late :-)
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10:54 | __anton__ | left the channel | |
11:01 | daFred_ | i didn't mean to sell anything with this link, just to use the opportunity to support the development further.
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11:05 | daFred_ | I might even post the link in the comments. Should I ?
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11:06 | se6astian | please dont
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11:06 | se6astian | we have everything planned out already
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11:06 | daFred_ | ok..
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11:06 | se6astian | patience young padavan :)
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11:06 | se6astian | its just 3h after campaign end
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11:26 | derWalter | omg... after weeks of using kaspersky on my laptop which handles my internetconnection, it decides that my homenetwork is not trusted anymore and blocks all traffic on it ^^
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11:34 | derWalter | se6astian: can we build something liike this: http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/433/887/498/498887433_749.jpg pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaseeeeeeeeee!
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11:36 | FergusL | congratulationns !
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11:38 | derWalter | or something like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVIr9MyqLqc
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11:45 | seku_ | left the channel | |
11:48 | se6astian | I had more something like this in mind: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nE1fzM6MD14/maxresdefault.jpg
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11:49 | se6astian | FergusL: thanks!
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11:51 | FergusL | I am eternally sorry, I said I wanted to contribute a symbolic donation but didn't do it... I watched it evolved and thought "oh I'll do it near the end..;" but now the end has passed ! hahaha ! stupid...
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11:51 | philippej | don't worry, support is not only about money
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11:54 | aombk | did you people believed it, that the campaign would turn out so successful?
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11:58 | se6astian | FergusL: I think we are covered even without your contribution :)
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11:59 | se6astian | aombk: mid campaign it was even hard to believe we will reach the goal at all
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12:00 | derWalter | i belive ML gave the turn
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12:00 | aombk | i wonder what triggered the popularity increase, apart from the ml support. or is this what always happens to crowd funding campaigns?
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12:01 | philippej | will we ever know ?
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12:01 | se6astian | not really :)
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12:03 | aombk | maybe statistics can be revealing if you correlate with other events (like blogs mentioning the campaign)
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12:03 | aombk | but maybe its just that people wait till the end to decide
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12:05 | se6astian | stats will be published soon
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12:05 | se6astian | working on it now
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12:07 | Bertl_zZ | changed nick to: Bertl
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12:07 | derWalter | moin Bertl
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12:07 | Bertl | morning folks!
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12:07 | philippej | Morning Bertl !
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12:07 | Bertl | \o/
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12:08 | FergusL | I think what happened is pretty common in crowd funding
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12:09 | se6astian | good morning
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12:11 | FergusL | se6astian: actually all I really wanted was the t shirt and stickers :)
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12:11 | FergusL | So you're covered, I'm not, all my fault !
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12:14 | aombk | FergusL, if you suggest something great to visit in paris i can give you my apertus button
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12:16 | FergusL | Leloop hackerspace, best ever
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12:17 | FergusL | If you're there this week end we run open doors days
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12:17 | aombk | here is an idea. we can reverse engineer the stickers/tshirts/buttons
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12:18 | FergusL | Hahaha good idea yeah
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12:29 | se6astian | nooo, I will use the most proprietary t-shirt I can find
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12:29 | se6astian | it wont even have openings for your arms!
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12:30 | Bertl | with strong encryption!
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12:31 | se6astian | yes, the text will be totally unreadable!
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12:32 | aombk | use color shifting inks
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12:37 | __anton__ | joined the channel | |
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12:40 | __anton__ | Guys, could smb tell me how Nikon lens mount is going to be made? Is it planned to be 2 parts: barrel + ring? How is the barrel going to be made? How is it coated black on the inside?
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12:41 | aombk | i dont know why, but i keep refreshing the campaign page.
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12:41 | Umibuta | Congratulations!! I expected it to cross 150K last night but 170K??? WOW!!
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12:41 | aombk | it became a habbit
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12:41 | aombk | habit
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12:42 | __anton__ | Cant stop thinking of an alternative body design but my fantasy seems to be running too wild on the lens mount
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12:45 | philippej | left the channel | |
12:45 | Umibuta | Would it be possible to receive the Beta on a later date when it's ready? Like a month or 2 later?
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12:46 | Umibuta | Mine is the 2nd batch but financially after May will be much more comfortable for me
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12:47 | se6astian | __anton__: We can tell you how the Alpha lens mount was made: the first prototype was CNC milled silver aluminum, the second prototype was CNC milled black POM, the bayonet ring is a second part
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12:47 | derWalter | regarding soldering a lot: http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=8c46817f27ae58954d0ef2b87848c18e&topic=2770.msg19337#msg19337
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12:47 | se6astian | we took the bayonet ring from second hand analog nikon cameras for the Alpha
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12:48 | se6astian | for the Beta we will streamline that process a bit :)
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12:48 | se6astian | we already have a source for bayonet rings
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12:48 | se6astian | Umibuta: sure, you can decide when to get your Beta
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12:48 | se6astian | we will first ask first batch owners, then second, .....
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12:49 | se6astian | but you can always choose to wait
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12:49 | se6astian | not infinitely though as we can only produce larger volume batches not single cameras :)
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12:50 | Umibuta | Thanks!! That's good to hear and I understand your concern on economy of scale :)
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12:51 | __anton__ | se6astian: so it's a thin ring which you screw to the barrel? My main question then is how the barrel is going to be made? And how is it going to be coated in black on the inside?
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12:52 | Umibuta | Coating the inside black? If it's aluminum what about anondizing?
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12:54 | __anton__ | I was wondering if the barrel could be one piece with a few other things - 2 or 3 tripod sockets and some decorative elenents to give one of the body designs i have in mind a vintage look
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12:55 | se6astian | __anton__: sure why not
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12:55 | se6astian | the barrel has just two basic requirements
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12:55 | se6astian | 1. put the bayonet ring at the right distance to the sensor (FFD)
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12:56 | se6astian | 2. be strong enough to hold the lens and camera body together properly without any material bending or light leak
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12:57 | __anton__ | E.g. can it be made on a processing center from a larger brick of aluminium.. wanted to know how expensive that is.. if we are anodising we have to anodise the whole thing right? And it gets more expensive with size too doesnt it?
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12:57 | se6astian | not sure if anodising is a good coating for reducing light reflections next to the sensor
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12:58 | se6astian | sure you can cut it from a brick of aluminum, the more you cut away the more expensive the part will be
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13:01 | Bertl | a number of tricks can be used to make the inside non-reflective
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13:02 | __anton__ | Being a total noob in this.. how do you coat it then? Powder coating? And protects some of the surfaces which you dont want painted? We surely dont want to paint the side facing the camera least ffd is not maintained?
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13:03 | Bertl | spraying like with car parts for example would work
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13:03 | Bertl | (you can mask off the base/top)
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13:04 | Bertl | but please folks, collect all the ideas on the wiki
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13:04 | aombk | i know a super great black mat spray paint
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13:10 | Umibuta | Is manufacturing the body or aluminum parts out of EU out of the question?
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13:11 | se6astian | no but we need to be sure whereever it is made that people are paid fairly and there are health and safety standards that are on paar with inner EU ones
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13:11 | Bertl | which should be fine for e.g. the US
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13:13 | aombk | http://www.motip.com/products/motip/automotive/universal-lacquers/lacquer-black/
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13:13 | aombk | and this http://www.motip.com/products/motip/automotive/car-repair-lacquers/primer/
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13:14 | Umibuta | I had some stuff made in Singapore. Milled and anodised. How much it compares to EU and the shipping/taxes involved might be a concern.
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13:54 | philippej_ | quick front end builder, might be interesting for us : https://github.com/BrentNoorda/slfsrv
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14:11 | Umibuta | I was looking for some of the drawings that I had made. The dimensions are similar to the size of the Beta. I could get a quote for you just for cost comparison purpose if needed. No harm asking.
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14:16 | Bertl | sounds good
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14:23 | Umibuta | Also a question/ suggestion. How different are the barrel size for different lenses? If they are not too different, would it be better to have the barrel part of the body?
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14:23 | Umibuta | For different lenses, maybe a different flange instead?
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14:26 | Bertl | adds another interface with tolerances
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14:29 | Umibuta | Sorry. I don't understand.
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14:51 | derWalter | as it gets down to business now, i want to drop two links, which are very important to me and my future. i want to work like and with this in all the projects i engage with: https://www.ecogood.org/ and http://www.mitgruenden.at/ - both links are in german and mostly relevant for businesses/associations/companies and individuals, from/located in germany and austria
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15:20 | Umibuta | derWalter: Thanks. It is interesting to read how community/economy ethics have evolved.
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15:25 | Umibuta | Maybe I should clarify that I am not promoting a certain workshop just for economic reasons but also my experiences and capability of the workshop.
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15:42 | __anton__ | Guys how versatile are these processing centers? Can they easily and cheaply create a curved surface like half an egg from aluminium? (A designer may be waking up in me :-])
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15:44 | derWalter | wow, thats a hard one, this needs either to be cast, where you need a casting form and molten alloy or milled from a solid block
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15:45 | derWalter | and after milling it needs to be sanded, brushed and so forth
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15:45 | __anton__ | Okay okay I see - too complex for us :)
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15:45 | derWalter | alloy is a very very very harmfull ressource :/ better to focus on organis fibers
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15:46 | derWalter | i was thinking of ways to easiely create like 100 cases at once made out of wood
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15:46 | derWalter | wouldnt even be that much work
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15:46 | derWalter | it would be lightweight, easy to build, ecological and maybe even very cheap
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15:46 | __anton__ | You mean it costs lots of pollution to get aluminium?
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15:47 | derWalter | hell yeah...
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15:47 | derWalter | ULTRA lots
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15:47 | derWalter | as its done by electric energy, every alloymine hast one or two coal powerplants next to it...
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15:48 | comradekingu | We must use Norwegian aluminium
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15:48 | derWalter | coal powerplants cause the largest mines are in africa and there ecological and social factors dont count, es the industries down there are run by multinational companies :/
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15:48 | comradekingu | hydropowered aluminium
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15:49 | Umibuta | Normally before casting you need to make the mold and that can be tedious and expensive. But recent methods involve using 3D printers to shape the mold, therefore reducing the cost.
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15:50 | comradekingu | just get sheet alu and bend it, thats cheap and easy, albeit a bit timeconsuming
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15:50 | derWalter | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bauxite
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15:50 | derWalter | hrhrhr: http://eramet.no/en/environment-and-climate/
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15:53 | __anton__ | I think Russian alluminium is also mostly melted on hydropower. Minght nit be that evil after all :)
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15:57 | derWalter | well, thats just one side of alloy...
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15:58 | derWalter | http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/red-mud-toxic-waste-of-aluminum-refining-1.906411
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15:59 | derWalter | alloy is all over a cool material to work with, but horrible for the ecosystem
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15:59 | comradekingu | __anton__: the russians have atomic power that makes a bad joke of even the simplest safety measures. And their mining is not very clean
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16:00 | Bertl | well, if go there, we probably won't be able to build anything except for a wooden tripod maybe :)
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16:01 | Bertl | don't get me wrong, I'm all pro eco system but it's not the materials or the production, it is the careless handling or cheap production techniques
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16:02 | Bertl | that red toxic mud could have been easily recycled
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16:04 | se6astian | be back later!
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16:04 | se6astian | see you
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16:04 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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16:06 | derWalter | and its the planned obsolecence
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16:08 | derWalter | a modular system has a pro and a contra side to this, pro side, old parts can be reused, contra side you will more likely change a parts of the system, more often, as you dont have to switch the whole system anymore. even on the contra side there is the pro that you switch just one part and not the whole, but! the danger is to use cheap materials/building processes so the hardware fails more often, but doesent hurt so much as sin
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16:09 | derWalter | and for low cost. ... that should be a trap to be watched and countered with and in the name and meaning of quality!
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16:10 | derWalter | (in east germany for instance, household products must have had a productlifetime of a minimum of 25 years, to be allowed to be sold! they had lighning bulbs with 100 000 hours lifetime, but after the wall fell, they bought the patents for it and whoops, to never be seen again)
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16:11 | derWalter | ... but thats a thing on which i get going on for ever, sorry for that... i am just so hurt by the way we are treating our world and the planet we live on ://
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16:11 | derWalter | (and i am a tech junkie myself :(( )
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16:18 | __anton__ | derWalter: I am totally with you here, things should last
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16:22 | derWalter | that is a big hope for me regarding apertus, to build a real qualityproduct, which lasts and like good wine, just gets better over the years :) grows and grows but doesnt break :) a hardcore hq camera.
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16:36 | Bertl | philippej_: problem with the client?
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16:36 | philippej_ | yes :-)
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16:37 | philippej_ | now should be ok, sorry for all those "has quit"
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16:52 | Bertl | we just thought you want to quit on us :)
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16:55 | intracube | €174,520 :D
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16:55 | intracube | congrats Bertl, se6astian|away + Apertus team!
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16:59 | philippej_ | thanks :-)
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16:59 | philippej_ | and no worries(?) Bertl I'm here to stay :-)
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17:06 | Bertl | intracube: thanks!
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17:22 | Rebelj12a | Hmm will the system be modifiable on the programming side?
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17:29 | philippej_ | testing phabricator, it's a very exciting tool :-)
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17:30 | philippej_ | Rebelj12a, what do you mean exactly? Every piece of software will be open source, so providing you have the skills, yes it will
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17:32 | Rebelj12a | Ah ok, will there be an emulation software possibly. Came across the idea when I was looking at Arri's virtual camera. Something like that but also with a programming emulator similar to how android can test its apps without breaking a physical phone. Might make it safer for more complex programs
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17:33 | philippej_ | it depends on what layer you'd like to test.
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17:33 | philippej_ | it can be as low level as hardware design (fpga code) that is supposed to be emulated, but I don't know if it really works in practice
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17:34 | Rebelj12a | Hmm I suppose that is more complex.
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17:34 | philippej_ | then you have the linux layer, meaning you could test stuff on a similar linux install on a normal computer
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17:34 | philippej_ | then probably the script layer, be it php or wathever, that you can test on any server
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17:35 | philippej_ | and probably some arduino code (or similar) which is also testable
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17:35 | philippej_ | is that what you have in mind ?
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17:36 | Rebelj12a | All my of my favorite codes. Yeah I was just thinking there are people who are going to want to push the limits of the system. I suppose its more complex than android though. Where emulation as proof of concept beforehand is.more difficult
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17:37 | philippej_ | well there is another option
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17:37 | philippej_ | you can grab a microzed dev board and start right now
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17:37 | philippej_ | you "only" risk a 200$ device
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17:38 | philippej_ | the most expensive device, the sensor could be emulated as well, but it's not a trivial task
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17:38 | Rebelj12a | Hm interesting.
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17:39 | Rebelj12a | I like that solution, I'm just tossing ideas around so.
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17:42 | Rebelj12a | I just hope that people keep it open source.
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17:50 | Bertl | we will definitely keep everything open source
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18:03 | Rebelj12a | Well yeah, are there going to be efforts however to discourage devs and programmers from charging for updates for their particular renditions or revisions, flavors even if you will.
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18:03 | Rebelj12a | Especially if one becomes quite popular.
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18:03 | Rebelj12a | You see this often with PHP which is what my degree is in.
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18:06 | Rebelj12a | People charging for themes or templates etc.
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18:14 | Rebelj12a | I'm probably just over thinking it.
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18:27 | derWalter | as long as you stop soon ENOUGH, you are not overthinking it :)
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18:30 | Rebelj12a | I never stop ideas just pop in randomly and / or all at once.
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18:31 | Rebelj12a | I've had a dystopian dream where Linux was no longer open and everyone charged for updates or features... D:
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18:34 | derWalter | tbh, that can happen every day... its just a question of licences and patents
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18:44 | Rebelj12a | Yeah that's why I was wondering. Then on the other hand with it being Linux people can program in all sorts of licensing schemes, I'll draw my comparisons from working with Minecraft which is not open source but hey its java and lots of people can code it. Where software that works with it can become very popular on its own, however certain greedy administrators take that open source code API and charge for features of it for "e
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18:46 | Raj__ | Hey congrats guys
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18:46 | Rebelj12a | Granted not quite the same thing and drawing a younger crowd being a game doss have some unsavory elements to it but its a concern.
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18:58 | _Raj_ | Say if I want to upgrade my sensor to a better/next gen sensor in the future may an year from now.....what are my options?
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18:58 | derWalter | buying the sensor and plugging it in
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18:59 | _Raj_ | Lol
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18:59 | derWalter | thats the concept of open hardware
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18:59 | derWalter | well.... an open architecture at least :)
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18:59 | _Raj_ | Got it derWalter...may be I'll try to put my question this way
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18:59 | derWalter | what sensor do we need for this shot now...
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18:59 | Rebelj12a | Hm although wouldn't the Linux kernel need to be updated with drivers for the new module?
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19:00 | Rebelj12a | Different hardware and all that?
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19:00 | derWalter | well, i guess u have to unplugg the camera from the powersource anyways
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19:00 | derWalter | so a reboot seems to be mendatory
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19:01 | Rebelj12a | Well yes but on a base level in order for Linux to register new hardware it needs to have the kernel drivers modified, especially if the new sensor has different specifications or wodnt you be limited to the previous sensors capabilities since none of the operating system functions have been updated?
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19:02 | _Raj_ | All the existing cinema cameras, atleast the expensive ones, supposedly the best ones like f65, dragon and alexa sensors are custom made if not home grown.......So, is it possible for this open camera movement to reach those cameras level at any point in the hisotry? if yes how?
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19:03 | Rebelj12a | One would argue this one has the potential, if not already is. Granted the Alexa has a whole slew of nice features.
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19:03 | Q_ | What do you mean with "level"?
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19:03 | _Raj_ | level in terms of best sensor available in the market
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19:04 | Rebelj12a | Although expensive fluff its nice fluff nonetheless.
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19:04 | Rebelj12a | Its not all about pixel peeping D:, arguably though right now, you could buy the Alexa sensor and put it in the Beta right?
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19:04 | seku | if such nice sensors were available and affordable and with open datasheets, i guess axiom would use them
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19:04 | Q_ | There is no such thing as a "best sensor". There are different things in what it can be best.
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19:05 | seku | better to look at what we get than at what we dont get
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19:05 | seku | and we really get a lot
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19:05 | Rebelj12a | Oh yes.
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19:05 | seku | something like a PC-based raw recording solution... wonderful
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19:06 | _Raj_ | @Q ofcourse my requisite is DR and lowlight performance
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19:06 | Rebelj12a | Although couldn't this be a discouragement from any major manufacturers to create accessories for the beta. Since the market isn't guaranteed because of just how customizable it is. There's no guarantee of a market for a particular item.
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19:06 | seku | i mean, an MLed 5D is already up to par with a lot of cinema cams in 1080p
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19:07 | Rebelj12a | Mk3 try raw 2k
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19:07 | Rebelj12a | Anyways yeah.
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19:07 | seku | its way too good for me already, the axiom will be too
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19:07 | seku | 1080p, 2k ... no difference :)
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19:07 | _Raj_ | @seku that's my point MLed 5d has a sensor manufactured by Canon
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19:07 | Rebelj12a | For vfx and 3d compositing, big difference
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19:08 | seku | dynamic range between the canon and the c12000 seems similar
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19:08 | seku | canon has the edge on low light, for sure :D
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19:08 | _Raj_ | :)
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19:09 | seku | but iirc alexML already cooked some ideas with 300fps image averaging, the HDR mode
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19:09 | _Raj_ | BM 4k has c12000 right?
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19:09 | seku | there will be lots of funny things coming along.
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19:09 | seku | afaik
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19:10 | derWalter | 300gps@4k, thats around 8gb/s
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19:10 | seku | the cion seems to use it too. i dont know which revision or what implementation. but the beta wont necessarily behave like those cams. its open, and there will be a lot of tweaking and searching
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19:10 | _Raj_ | Yes man, it's fun....The philosophy is what attacted me to this not the technology at this moment
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19:12 | seku | 4k at 30fps is 530ish, so 5gigs/sec-ish for 300fps 10bit. now imagine adding a 64gig RAM board.
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19:12 | _Raj_ | Any sensor experts: what percentage of an image's credit can be attributed to the actual sensor and what percentage to tweaking?
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19:12 | seku | now you have 10 seconds at 300fps. thats a lot xD
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19:12 | Rebelj12a | I mean the sensor may require more or different processing than the built in one. However all those things can be addressed with the open source programming.
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19:13 | dmjnova | _Raj_: think about color grading
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19:13 | seku | well, what the axiom team has done is really impressive with the alpha. and same for ML with ... mlv and dual-iso. fun times ahead
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19:13 | dmjnova | how much of a final image is the RAW and how much is the post processing?
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19:13 | seku | Rebelj12a, thats the big advantage, processing is reprogrammable... FPGA
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19:13 | derWalter | and you can push the time a lot more by reducing the resolution
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19:13 | derWalter | you can even push the fps by doing so
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19:14 | derWalter | i read somewhere that around 1000fps should be possible at a lower resolution
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19:14 | seku | afaik there is no fixed processing
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19:14 | Rebelj12a | If we really needed to leverage more processing based on the board, it may be possible to use another board or hooked up Linux computer and leveraging Linux's cluster computing algorithms to get more processing power.
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19:14 | seku | alexML uttered some thoughts along those lines, extrapolating something like 800 at 1080p
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19:14 | derWalter | just by the specs and processing of the sensor...
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19:14 | derWalter | yes
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19:15 | dmjnova | seku yes, everything beyond the initial acquisition is reprogrammable, plus we can change how the fpga board uses the sensor
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19:15 | seku | Rebelj12a, the FPGA is already very powerful
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19:15 | seku | and there are talks about adding parallela boards
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19:15 | derWalter | he went down the math path till the theoretical maximum which is something over 1000fps but at very very very low resolution
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19:15 | derWalter | bertl got 4 parallella boards for testing already
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19:15 | seku | and the axiom is a linux computer :)
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19:15 | seku | derWalter, great news!
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19:16 | Q_ | So what CPU will it use?
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19:16 | Rebelj12a | Aha awesome thanks seku. Yeah Linux makes all this fantastically possible. Which is the amazing part.
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19:16 | _Raj_ | I am not talking about color grading here, how much percentage/stops of DR, Lowlight perf can be improved with tweaking at the programming level
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19:16 | seku | ARM for the linux cores, FPGA for sensor data
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19:16 | seku | FPN correction, LUTs, all that stuff
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19:16 | Rebelj12a | They aren't soldered to the board? Or are they?
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19:17 | Q_ | _Raj_: If you can do oversampling, you can get more out of it. But I have no idea how to do that properly with something that is moving.
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19:17 | seku | _Raj_, the Cmosis is quite programmable itself. naturally DR and lowlight is a limit of the sensor.
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19:17 | Q_ | That is, shoot at say 300 fps, reduce it to 60 fps
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19:18 | seku | the HDR is something like doing a LOG curve on the sensor level... and multisampling can be done because the sensor does 300fps... and fast hardware can be connected to it
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19:18 | Rebelj12a | Dual I so and such is a great software hack to expand this. That's why the ML announcement was so exciting to me at least.
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19:18 | seku | they are already having fun with the LOG curve and the 3 HDR modes the sensor provides
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19:18 | seku | i think its all in the campaign updates
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19:19 | Rebelj12a | I'm still learning the firmware side, however the Linux and arduino which I have experience with is all so exciting.
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19:20 | _Raj_ | very interesting HDR modes provided by the sensor
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19:21 | seku | thats why apertus insisted on choosing sensor with open and freely available datasheets... afaik
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19:22 | Rebelj12a | Although most things that aren't open if you do it right can be backwards engineered through various means which is how magic lantern worked on canon firnware
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19:23 | seku | im really happy MLV gets on board too. means the postprocessing workflow i use (chmee's raw2cdng) will be working.
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19:24 | seku | ML just *hooks* into the canon firmware for the camera interaction.
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19:24 | seku | those hooks are open and documented on the axiom. no reverse engineering
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19:28 | seku | free experimenting :D
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19:36 | Rebelj12a | Yeah exactly
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19:37 | Rebelj12a | Are there audio engineers on the axiom team as well?
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19:39 | seku | afaik no audio yet. but.. you see, on the remote stretch goal i had seen something that looked like timecode ;)
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19:41 | Rebelj12a | Ah ok, background I'm more of a hobbyist engineer at this point but as a filmmaker I know there are a few pillars of good film. Audio is one of them and the built in audio on the BMCC leaves much to be desired and is the cause of many complaints.
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19:41 | _Raj_ | Its going to be interesting how the axiom team comes with a PC RAW recording method
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19:42 | Even | <-- audio engineer
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19:42 | Rebelj12a | Almost one of the reasons I wanted to get the beta and home grow an HDMI out pro res recording at the very least.
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19:43 | Rebelj12a | Ah good I'm glad its handled then.
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19:43 | _Raj_ | I am least bothered about audio right now, the place I come from we do ADR for sound most of the times......inbuilt audio for scratch's always good though
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19:43 | Rebelj12a | The h4n and the BMCC the preamp leaves much to be desired. It seems the ticket to good audio will be a decent preamp.
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19:45 | Rebelj12a | Its almost too much, the axiom camera really inspires far too many ideas to actually make in a lifetime XD
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19:47 | surami | I think with this project there will appear some mini opensource 4K RAW recoding PC-s too.
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19:59 | Rebelj12a | Nice
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19:59 | KurtAugust | Rebelj12a: Forget the h4n. Terrible preamps. Yes. I just got a tascam dr-60. Also cheap and much cleaner preamps.
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20:02 | KurtAugust | Only have to solder a new connector for the battery packs I've made for the h4n. But as it is the battery life is already much better. So let's not worry about the beta's audio too much for now....
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20:05 | troy_s | joined the channel | |
20:06 | KurtAugust | But I admit I love MLV with sound on the MLed 5dIII. So much less work in post.
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20:07 | Rebelj12a | Yeah I want the H6 to replace it. All the inputs with modules.
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20:08 | Rebelj12a | Yeah I have my h4n connected to a Redrock power distributor.
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20:08 | Rebelj12a | Helps a lot.
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20:09 | surami | guys, we should speak about Axiom :)
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20:09 | surami | Beta
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20:09 | Even | i don't even need sound on my beta =)
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20:09 | KurtAugust | left the channel | |
20:11 | Rebelj12a | From a filmmakers perspective audio is just one of the things I've seen a lot of complaints about with the BMCC. Which is why I brought it up. Didn't remember reading anything about audio on the axiom
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20:11 | Rebelj12a | Well at least the beta
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20:12 | Even | there will be nice modules in the gamma =)
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20:12 | surami | this can solve things :) http://www.freesound.org/people/themfish/sounds/45808/
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20:13 | Rebelj12a | Awesome
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20:15 | surami | somebody has an idea, that how the 4K or smaller RAW direct recording to PC will be solved?
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20:16 | surami | PCIe to SSD maybe?
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20:21 | KurtAugust | joined the channel | |
20:21 | Rebelj12a | Hopefully something that can take more punishment. Pcie connections can be delicate. Plus most ssd are sata connections
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20:22 | Even | @sound haha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-oHYTQyTEk
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20:23 | __anton__ | joined the channel | |
20:23 | surami | :D
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20:24 | KurtAugust | left the channel | |
20:25 | seku | about audio... i think the easiest would be to just get a sound devices recorder and sync via timecode
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20:25 | seku | just my take
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20:26 | Rebelj12a | Indeed time code sync is the way to do it.
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20:28 | seku | nice autotune vid :)
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20:28 | seku | iirc there were trials and tribulations to get timecode out of ML RAW... it just didnt sync right
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20:29 | surami | Rebelj12a: there are PCIe SSD boards
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20:29 | seku | no such problems with the axiom
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20:30 | seku | the problem will probably to make it easy... and cheap.
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20:30 | surami | if PCIe interface can be added to the PicoZed or MicroZed or I don't know
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20:30 | seku | HDMI feels like the way to go for the axiom. as we have 3 ports already
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20:31 | seku | so the pc part would essentially be a HDMI stream to ssd recorder...
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20:31 | surami | then a PCIe SSD board could be used for buffer
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20:31 | seku | or an S-ata
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20:31 | surami | and after that transfer the data to PC
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20:32 | surami | but engineers here could say more
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20:32 | surami | I'm just thinking loud
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20:32 | seku | lets calculate... 4kraw at 30fps is 530mbyte/sec
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20:33 | seku | youd need that as sustained write.
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20:33 | seku | one SSD on s-ata might suffice for 4k24p
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20:34 | seku | same here, also thinking out loud :)
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20:34 | seku | for 60p that means a minimum of 2 SSDs
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20:34 | tyrone_ | joined the channel | |
20:34 | Rebelj12a | Ram buffer processing?
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20:34 | surami | yes
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20:34 | surami | like as ML do it..
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20:35 | seku | if the CPU/whatevs can handle realtime jpeg lossless compression (which i doubt) you could essentially halve the bandwidth
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20:35 | Rebelj12a | Mhmm
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20:36 | surami | 1 DNG is around 24-25 MB as I know
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20:36 | tyrone_ | sorry for disturb the picozed with the 7015 and 7030 has pci express ip cores
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20:36 | Rebelj12a | Unless it was processed directly using an algorithm, like what RED does with its processing.
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20:36 | tyrone_ | but they are closed ip cores.
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20:36 | seku | heh
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20:36 | seku | i see, thats why
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20:37 | surami | i'm not engineer, what closed ip core mean?
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20:37 | tyrone_ | so you cant share it
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20:37 | tyrone_ | they have license that you can only use with the xilinx zynq fpga's
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20:37 | surami | i see
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20:37 | Rebelj12a | Dedicated cores for for just PCI express?
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20:38 | seku | unfortunate for us :)
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20:38 | Rebelj12a | Hm
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20:38 | surami | then what is the solution, use another board?
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20:39 | seku | the campaign said it would be a PC recording solution
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20:39 | __anton__ | left the channel | |
20:39 | tyrone_ | it's vhdl code that you get with the zynq fpga's and you have license restrictions so it cloud be problematic to publish public and share.... (not 100% shure)
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20:39 | Rebelj12a | On the beta at least
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20:39 | seku | and the axiom page hints at packing RAW files into a HDMI stream
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20:39 | seku | it sounds most sensible.
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20:40 | Rebelj12a | That would be brilliant. What is it hdmi 3 now? Can't remember the revision but it has built in Ethernet capability.
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20:40 | tyrone_ | well you can develop a gpl pcie
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20:40 | surami | tyron_: i see, but then how to transfer 25 MB x Y frame to the PC?
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20:41 | seku | i dont remember the revision, but it is capable for 1080p60... which in turm allows for RAW 4k30
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20:41 | surami | ah ok :)
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20:41 | seku | but as we know there are 3 ports :)
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20:41 | tyrone_ | opencores.org has a lot ip cores but they have to be portet to the zynq and also testing if it works...
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20:42 | Rebelj12a | HDMI 1.4 is the most recent. 100mb/s transfer rate
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20:42 | seku | i gather that in/camera raw recording will be on gamma... beta sounds too early
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20:42 | Rebelj12a | Someone could do it I'm sure.
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20:42 | seku | but i will let myself be surprised positively if they manage that
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20:43 | Rebelj12a | http://mycablemart.com/help/hdmi_which_one.php HDMI 2.0
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20:43 | seku | sure, its just that there is still so much to do
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20:43 | Rebelj12a | Don't think its out yet.
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20:43 | seku | HDMI2 is out on TVs
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20:43 | seku | and monitors
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20:43 | seku | but not on that axiom board i suppose
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20:43 | Rebelj12a | Well once beta gets out to investors I'm sure people will tinker.
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20:43 | seku | 1.4 at most i guess
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20:43 | seku | sure they will. but i think the hdmi capture way will work first
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20:45 | dmjnova | surami: it's not impossible obviously, but pci-e would require us to write our own pci-e core, which is a significant amount of work
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20:45 | Rebelj12a | Eh I see more progress being made with 6g SDI. Seems more probable.
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20:45 | Rebelj12a | http://wolfcrow.com/blog/what-is-6g-sdi/
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20:45 | seku | from se6astian on the DVXiser forums : RAW over HDMI we envision to work like this:
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20:45 | seku | A single 24Bit 4:4:4 (8bit per channel) pixel can actually store the value of two 12bit RAW pixels (2x 12bit = 24bit). So with 1080p60 we could already store 12bit UHD RAW 30 FPS video.
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20:45 | seku | The image just needs to be properly interpreted in post production but that you need to do with any raw format anyway.
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20:46 | yanez | joined the channel | |
20:46 | seku | Rebelj12a, true. for the axiom. but sdi6g seems prohibitively expensive for the beta
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20:46 | seku | #axiom gamma
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20:46 | Rebelj12a | True true. At least on a large scale.
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20:47 | seku | well, we will find sooner or later :D
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20:47 | yanez | hi guys
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20:48 | seku | hi yanez
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20:48 | tyrone_ | for a relative simple solution to transfer data to the computer it's possible to use a cypress usb3.0 chip. http://www.cypress.com/fx3/
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20:49 | surami | dmjnova: yes I can imagine that it's not simple, I don't have this kind of knowledge, I just started to search the availabe options on the board and think loud
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20:49 | yanez | I have saw that you were speaking about audio in the beta camera
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20:50 | surami | maybe I'm already at Gamma again :D
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20:50 | seku | surami, i remember Bertl saying that implementing usb3 being exceedingly difficult. its a tough protocol, tough to reach high throughputs.
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20:50 | seku | a simpler protocol is needed probably
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20:50 | tyrone_ | question is more if you want to have it or not.
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20:50 | seku | yanez, we were hypothesizing a bit
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20:51 | seku | theoreticeally very theoretically ... with 3 HDMIs the beta could reach 90 fps
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20:51 | seku | but where to go with all that data :)
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20:51 | surami | 90 fps what?
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20:51 | seku | 4k
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20:51 | surami | 8 bit?
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20:51 | seku | 12
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20:52 | __anton__ | joined the channel | |
20:52 | seku | each HDMI channel can handle 4k30frames at 12bit
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20:52 | yanez | in the yesterday's chat, 8th October at the line 180 at h 15:12 yanez, I posted my Suggestion for audio. is very naive, because I'm not an engineer, but I hope I can give some idea
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20:52 | surami | and how to put it on an SSD eg.
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20:52 | seku | so 3 hdmi ports add up to 90
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20:53 | surami | ok, and how you record the data?
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20:53 | seku | surami, thats the challenge :D
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20:53 | surami | or money..
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20:53 | Rebelj12a | left the channel | |
20:54 | seku | yanez, yesterday you were proposing some kind of early timecode
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20:54 | surami | that's why I started to think about that buffered solution somehow
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20:55 | seku | (timecode is a lot of beeps that get recorded on one audio channel. which can be transformed by software automatically to a timestamp). that kind of audio can sync up automatically with the video (if the metadata has the right timestamp)
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20:55 | seku | and thats the way i suppose audio will work at first with the beta
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20:57 | seku | i look forward to the work done on lossless jpeg compression
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20:57 | seku | it *could* keep 4k30 down to below 300megs/sec. easy for an SSD
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20:58 | seku | still 800 gigs per hour *coughs*
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20:59 | yanez | so this timecode signal should be recorded on an audio channel as should have done with my bips?
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20:59 | _Raj_ | left the channel | |
20:59 | seku | yes, it takes one audio channel
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21:00 | seku | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timecode
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21:00 | __anton__ | left the channel | |
21:01 | aombk | anybody has experience with wordpress gallery plugins?
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21:01 | seku | 5 years ago yes... not up to date at all anymore
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21:01 | surami | so in theory we can get 12bit 4K 30 fps RAW out from one HDMI
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21:02 | yanez | well, iwould't buy an expansive audio device now, if I can add the audio module when I upgrade to gamma
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21:02 | seku | surami, thats what se6astian has postulated, yes
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21:02 | seku | yanez, as Even said before, a Tascam 60 would be damn fine for starters
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21:03 | surami | then we need a "frame grabber" what converts that data into DNG somehow?
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21:03 | seku | surami, that conversion would be done at home on your desktop PC.
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21:03 | seku | converting the datastream into DNG, CinemaDNG, MLV
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21:04 | surami | aha
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21:04 | seku | ML Team has already said they will support MLV format for the axiom. and theres converters for that
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21:05 | seku | http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8447.0
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21:05 | surami | i know ML
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21:05 | seku | then you know the MVL workflow :)
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21:05 | surami | but HDMI to DNG or MLV is how?
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21:06 | yanez | I was thinking about a Zoom H4n.
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21:06 | seku | there will be a converter... either by axiom, ML or joint effort
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21:07 | yanez | I go, bye to everybody
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21:07 | surami | i see
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21:07 | surami | bye
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21:07 | seku | cya
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21:07 | yanez | left the channel | |
21:07 | seku | ah too bad, i tried to find a good timecode explanation for yanez
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21:08 | regmac | Gah! OSX Lion thinks all my old video files from a PowerPC mac (CInestream) are Unix Executable files and nothign will open them!
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21:08 | regmac | Sorry, had to yell.
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21:09 | seku | i get the feeling :)
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21:13 | se6astian | campaign details and analysis published: https://apertus.org/crowdfunding-campaign-details-analysis-article-2014
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21:13 | seku | thanks seb
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21:13 | seku | whoa, what a spike
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21:14 | seku | the ML spike and the RAW recording end spike i suppose :)
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21:15 | seku | nice post!
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21:23 | Gegsite | left the channel | |
21:24 | dmjnova | seku: I'd say the ML spike
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21:24 | dmjnova | and then the end spike
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21:25 | dmjnova | most campaigns get a spike, but ML and stretch goals multiplied it a lot
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21:25 | dmjnova | we had a really flat middle
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21:34 | derWalter | left the channel | |
21:36 | surami | nice to see this kind of succesful campaign, congrats again!
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21:37 | surami | good night for everyone!
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21:37 | derWalter | joined the channel | |
21:38 | surami | left the channel | |
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22:05 | Rebelj12a | joined the channel | |
22:05 | Rebelj12a | Aha?
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22:05 | Rebelj12a | Yeah sorry traveling on the road. Need to verify by sasl somehow when on cell data
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22:06 | francescoita | left the channel | |
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22:12 | Rebelj12a | Blast missed the audio discussion train
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22:14 | RebelMM | left the channel | |
22:15 | Rebelj12a | Whoops hah
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22:20 | Rebelj12a | All this talk makes me wish I jumped on the beta train blast. I'll have to punch a ticket for gamma if there is one.
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22:23 | Rebelj12a | If I'm looking at this right the gamma has the possibility of being converted to an end style mount with active EF aperture control and built in ND filters since it all comes right off the housing... Hmm
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22:24 | se6astian | We just reopened the campaign for latecomers: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/axiom-beta-the-first-open-digital-cinema-camera
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22:24 | seku | whoa, really? xD
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22:25 | Bertl | and we got a nice slashdot article
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22:25 | seku | congrats!
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22:25 | seku | heh, 500. nice, that allows for some spare cash too
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22:26 | Rebelj12a | Oh god.... *drums nervously* to beta or not to beta.
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22:26 | seku | you will have to wait till august :)
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22:27 | seku | but its fun :D
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22:27 | Rebelj12a | Yeah two weeks blast... Hm hm hmm
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22:28 | derWalter | left the channel | |
22:28 | Rebelj12a | Congrats on Slashdot. That's awesome
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22:28 | seku | i should be getting mine in april... funfun
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22:28 | Bertl | but there might be still somebody selling his "accidential 350 EUR" perk, JFYI
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22:29 | Bertl | (see comment section)
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22:31 | seku | partied and slept well, seb and bertl?
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22:35 | derWalter | joined the channel | |
22:35 | Bertl | unfortunately I had to work today, but I slept well, thanks
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22:35 | seku | ah, we were both unfortunate then.
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22:36 | se6astian | worked all day :)
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22:39 | seku | on the beta? :)
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22:41 | seku | mh, reminds me i need to download the raw alpha footage and try to have some fun with it. weekend is near
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22:42 | derWalter | left the channel | |
22:47 | seku | Bertl, im wondering what you are brewing up on the paralella boards :)
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22:47 | Bertl | coffee
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22:48 | Bertl | they get quite hot :)
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22:48 | seku | now THAT is a good answer :D
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22:49 | Gegsite | left the channel | |
22:52 | Rebelj12a | Haha
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22:53 | Rebelj12a | Developing a plug and play parallel board module?
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22:54 | Bertl | no seku was referring to the parallella board
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22:54 | Rebelj12a | Ahh ok
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22:54 | Rebelj12a | Oh supercomputing I see, yes I did just google it.
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22:55 | Bertl | which is a nice combination with an image sensor
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22:55 | Rebelj12a | Indeed indeed it is.
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22:56 | Rebelj12a | Wonder if there is a workstation GPU that fits in the size of a module. I don't think there is its a bit big. Most of them anyways
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22:57 | Rebelj12a | What is the perceived module data transfer rate or is that not even considered yet?
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22:58 | nn | joined the channel | |
22:59 | nn | changed nick to: Guest7585
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23:00 | seku | workstation gpu ... module size? nothing comes to mind :(
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23:03 | Rebelj12a | Yeah me neither. Which is too bad.
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23:03 | Bertl | Rebelj12a: what is a perceived module data transfer rate? how often your neighbour catches you swapping a module with your other neighbour?
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23:04 | seku | spent the last hour configuring capture one pro ... am i glad i left adobe
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23:04 | Rebelj12a | No I mean as in running specs on transfer of data between the gamma for instance and one module. I would assume the further down modules are in the "line" transfer rates would go down.
| 23:05 | seku | smirks
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23:05 | seku | don-t ask about the gamma yet. the specs for beta are not even defined yet
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23:06 | Rebelj12a | Capture one is great. Light room I use everyday though just for various things because I'm more familiar with it. I also can't give up my analog and film presets for accurate film color and light response.
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23:06 | seku | and no, gamma will have a bus system. same shared bandwidth with all modules
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23:06 | Rebelj12a | Ah ok that's what I was wondering.
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23:06 | Rebelj12a | I figured it wasn't even being thought about yet which is why I asked with the notation if its even being addressed yet haha
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23:07 | seku | Rebelj12a, i am torn between dxo and capture one. i love DXO, but capture feels more organic. but somewhat less precise. i love both
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23:07 | Rebelj12a | Capture is more organic I agree with you there. DXO just seems too precise too mechanical. Its the imperfections that make pictures perfect I think.
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23:08 | seku | lets say capture one is more a joy to use... but damn, i love that highlight and shadow recovery DXO automatically does
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23:09 | seku | using capture one spread over 3 screens now.
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23:09 | seku | i love space
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23:09 | Rebelj12a | Ahaa nice that's the way to do it.
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23:09 | se6astian | time for bed
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23:10 | seku | gnight seb
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23:10 | se6astian | good night everyone!
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23:10 | Rebelj12a | Still running off my laptop for now D: it works decent for video since its newer but. Gah it chokes on raw movies. Night!
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23:10 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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23:10 | Rebelj12a | Plus I have an old old Mac pro screen from back in 2004 still works though.
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23:11 | seku | old 30 inch Dell here, calibrated to d65 though
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23:11 | seku | and 2 20inch in portrait mode on the side
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23:11 | seku | not mine, but same screens > https://static.gearslutz.com/board/imgext.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv339%2FInuyasha32%2FWP_000072.jpg&h=7b5e831a14ed6e49ed0e5f8242385f9c
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23:12 | seku | funnily enough i have the dustbin and computer in the same spot. glass table tho.
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23:12 | Rebelj12a | Yeah I have idisplay pro and colorchecker. Been meaning to tweak the settings for now making it accurate is all I need. Let's just say this area doesn't have high media standards
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23:13 | Rebelj12a | Oh yeah that's nice
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23:13 | seku | calibrating is incredibly important... colors already, but gray levels even more so
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23:13 | seku | contrast can be way off
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23:14 | Rebelj12a | Yep luckily that's tuned in really want a dedicated IPS monitor but eventually
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23:14 | seku | for critical watching i move to the home theater though. nothing beats seeing stuff on the big screen.
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23:14 | Rebelj12a | True true
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23:14 | seku | and it is fun :D
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23:15 | Rebelj12a | Gotta get that movie experience to truly know how it looks. Want to get the thunderbolt to HDMI black magic adapter for my broadcast monitor. The unfortunate thing about cinema is the cost. D:
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23:16 | Rebelj12a | Axiom though and Apertus in general. I hope it makes waves. I really do. I'd love a shift in the tech part of the industry.
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23:17 | seku | actually i am using one of my old pcs in the home theater. runs MPC-BE as video player with madVR as video renderer (incredibly good stuff, upsamples SD stuff through NNEDI ... if you are into avisynth). then straight HDMI to a JVC X30 beamer
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23:17 | Rebelj12a | It's just so expensive and I think big budget Hollywood is to blame. Although its been around since the beginning.
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23:18 | Rebelj12a | Oh nice, I'm partial to xbmc, have it installed on my jail broken Apple TV.
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23:18 | seku | it wont change the industry, i think. but it will give us tinkerers possibilities we havent dreamed of since ML
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23:19 | seku | i am running xmbc too, but i modified the xml settings file to access my external player
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23:19 | seku | i am quite partial to madVR :)
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23:19 | Rebelj12a | Indeed MLs code is beyond me. Firmware stuff I haven't quite figured out yet. The whole relation between software and hardware. I'll get there though.
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23:20 | Rebelj12a | Yeah but even ML is limited by canon hardware. They've been trying to solve the CF card bottleneck since its inception.
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23:20 | Rebelj12a | Well at least RAWs inception
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23:21 | seku | and they allowed me to record around 7 terabytes of great video that way.
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23:21 | seku | (well , great to me)
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23:21 | Rebelj12a | Haha hey beauty is in the eye of the beholder
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23:22 | seku | lets say incredibly great compared to the h.264 output
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23:22 | seku | hi aombk :)
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23:22 | Rebelj12a | Oh yeah.
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23:23 | seku | make no mistake, i have a very shallow grasp on how ML does stuff. i would be incapable of writing a single simple function though.
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23:24 | Rebelj12a | I've got some files and research to send your guy's way. I mean I'm just a quick and dirty fixer/hacker based on experience but maybe it will help.
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23:24 | Rebelj12a | Yeah ML is, well based on their limitations they have done so much.
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23:24 | Rebelj12a | Do you guys use 3d printing?
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23:25 | seku | unbelievably so
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23:25 | Rebelj12a | Or will you be?
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23:25 | aombk | left the channel | |
23:28 | seku | i guess they are evaluating all those options right now
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23:30 | Rebelj12a | Ah ok awesome for quick prototyping its the way to go.
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23:30 | Rebelj12a | In any case be back in a bit, had a quick emergency at home heading to the office.
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00:03 | Rebelj12a | Aha
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00:04 | seku | mh?
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00:04 | Rebelj12a | Back at the office finally. Plus added #apertus to colloquay
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00:05 | Rebelj12a | And now paperwork and prep for this weekend fun :b
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00:05 | seku | i like using bitlbee öD
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00:06 | seku | and SSHing into it xD
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00:06 | seku | but right now im lazy and just use hexchat
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00:09 | Rebelj12a | bitbee? hmm never heard of it. Colloquay is convenient. Well convenient in at least it runs on mac.
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00:10 | seku | bitlbee is kinda like a centralizer for all chatting. and it exposes it via an irc server. be it facebook, irc, skype
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00:11 | Rebelj12a | Oh like Adium?
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00:11 | seku | usually i chat to my facebook people via my IRC client. which usually is weechat
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00:11 | seku | different than adium. adium centralises, but doesnt do IRC
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00:12 | Rebelj12a | ah ok
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00:12 | seku | in bitlbee you join your own local facebook channel for example
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00:12 | seku | its neat :)
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00:13 | Rebelj12a | interesting
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00:14 | Rebelj12a | Although i cant say there would be alot to talk about locally here :\
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00:17 | seku | your choice :)
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00:17 | Rebelj12a | Yeah well i cant say im exactly in the cradle of civilization. Ill have to install it on my linux netbook of doom.
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00:18 | seku | by local i meant that your computer creates an irc server that lets you PM facebook or skype contacsts like you can PM people in an irc channel
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00:18 | Rebelj12a | oh really? Thats really interesting.
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00:18 | Rebelj12a | No need to port forward through isp and all that?
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00:23 | seku | nah.
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00:24 | seku | unless you want to connect remotely
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00:24 | Rebelj12a | hm interesting
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00:24 | Rebelj12a | Oooh nikon posted a video of a stripped away lens and the mechanisms inside. Fascinating…
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00:30 | Rebelj12a | AHA what I needed to know, lens coatings sweet!
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00:34 | Rebelj12a | the music leaves much to be desired though.
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00:36 | Rebelj12a | One step closer to fabricating an anamorphic lens. but thats neither here nor there. Interesting decision to open up continued crowdfunding…
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00:37 | Rebelj12a | Oh sorry apparantly those were private messages, i dont use irc that often so.
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00:37 | seku | youll get used to it :)
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00:54 | Rebelj12a | Oh there are United States Team Project members cool.
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00:57 | Rebelj12a | You guys are all over, how do you keep track of the project O.O
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