Current Server Time: 04:28 (Central Europe)

#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2014/10/09

Timezone: UTC


00:13
dmjnova
160k!
00:14
Bertl
\o/
00:22
theuberkevlar
I couldn't help myself. I picked up another super 35 perk. We'll see if my brother wants it. :)
00:23
Rebelj12a
joined the channel
00:25
Rebelj12a
Hmm
00:26
derWalter
mh?
00:26
Bertl
welcome Rebelj12a!
00:28
Rebelj12a
Hey yeah following this closely. Fantastic is all I can say. Always been a fan and run Magic Lantern the pairing of ML with Axiom is perfect.
00:29
Bertl
thanks! we think so too!
00:30
derWalter
the only ppl out there, thinking something else are BM, Sony, R3D and Arri :P
00:32
Rebelj12a
Hey I have Blackmagic and I love it, but a Linux run professional camera really appeals to me on so many levels.
00:36
theuberkevlar
Rebelj12a, why "Hmm"?
00:37
Rebelj12a
Oh because too often these days IRC is empty. I don't know confuses people or sonething.
00:38
theuberkevlar
aha
00:39
Rebelj12a
I'm really glad the crowd funding goals were met. I just can't justify a camera that doesn't have built in recording. As much as I wanted to.
00:40
Bertl
that's fine
00:40
Bertl
we are aware that the Beta won't be the perfect solution
00:41
Rebelj12a
Yeah I'm all in for gamma though. Will there be crowd funding for that model?
00:41
theuberkevlar
Yeah. It's only a matter of time before somebody comes up with a good solution though.
00:43
theuberkevlar
But I had to think about it for a while too. I figured, I'm in no rush to upgrade to a completely working retail 4k production camera, so it seemed like a good idea to help support the Axiom campaign/open source movement in the mean time, and I'm sure we'll end up with something awesome in the long run. :)
00:44
theuberkevlar
And be supporting open source products that I think will really make a difference for a lot of people.
00:45
Rebelj12a
Oh yeah, someone will. I've been looking at android Dev and other options. DSLRController even though its not technically a DSLR would be great.
00:47
Rebelj12a
Yeah I've always been a fan of open source. Hopefully it will effect technology business models in the future as well. I mean with all Magic Lantern has done and Canon still has it closed well they make their choices.
00:50
Rebelj12a
Been working on a (at some point) wireless follow focus and lan arduinoc control for the BMCC. I mean I'll open source it and how to make it once its done, the programming itself is quite simple in all honesty. Everything builds when more people have knowledge.
00:51
derWalter
left the channel
00:54
aombk
its amazing the campaign funds just go up and up
00:56
Rebelj12a
Its always amazing to watch. Like the Potato Salad Kick starter XD
00:56
aombk
you could ask indiegogo to extend the campaign for a year
00:56
aombk
you will make millions
00:57
Bertl
maybe, but we want to make a Beta :)
00:58
aombk
yes but just imagine a 5 year indiegogo campaign
00:58
aombk
it would be awesome
00:58
Bertl
at least for indiegogo :)
00:58
aombk
right
00:59
Rebelj12a
Ah campaigns need to run their course, helps build up and hold anticipation.
00:59
aombk
but my campaign is not going so well
00:59
aombk
sorry apertus team i dont think i can get the perk
01:00
Bertl
yeah, I checked regularily ... unfortunately it is still in the early stage
01:00
theuberkevlar
Rebelj12a yeah I use DSLRcontroller on my canon cameras. It is pretty neato. :)
01:00
Bertl
Rebelj12a: have you considered working on a follow focus for the Beta yet?
01:03
Rebelj12a
Well the less than 1sec response time with the TPLink for wireless monitoring is awesome. Never expected that.
01:03
Rebelj12a
Oh well the follow focus I'd program again is simplistic. It will run off arduino and connect via 15mm rod to any system.
01:04
Bertl
got some images to illustrate?
01:04
aombk
anybody knows about finished campaigns? can i edit them after they are over?
01:05
Bertl
no idea here, first campaign as well
01:07
Rebelj12a
Just the parts. No images yet. Its 1 of a few projects I have going. Still buying the arduino pieces as I can. Touch screen, SD card shield, for prototyping. Saving money by recycling knobs and buttons from old electronics however final product will be similar to the Redrock version, although larger, dual 15mm attachment, since I want to put a gearing system in for different speeds.
01:08
Rebelj12a
I have sketches though
01:08
Bertl
care to show us?
01:11
Rebelj12a
Sure
01:13
Rebelj12a
Let me find them
01:14
Rebelj12a
I designed it around Redrocks rig, like I said its more of a personal project. Made it to slide right on the handle of the shoulder rig.
01:15
Rebelj12a
Ah bollocks its at the office. Don't know about you guys but its 8:15pm here hah
01:15
Rebelj12a
I'll be on tomorrow and post it.
01:15
Bertl
no problem
01:16
Bertl
well, it's past 3am here :)
01:18
Rebelj12a
Oh wait found it other notebook hah. Oh jeeze late night.
01:19
Rebelj12a
Hmm can't paste links?
01:19
Rebelj12a
http://imgur.com/wBZMBDb
01:19
Rebelj12a
Ah nevermind
01:20
Rebelj12a
http://imgur.com/7GurcMr
01:20
Rebelj12a
I have a perceived upgrade map. Start with buttons move on to momentary knob switches.
01:21
Rebelj12a
Started as a personal project to link h4n recording and BMCC recording. Then I was just disappointed the power of arduino would be so underused just for that so.
01:21
Rebelj12a
Expanded.
01:21
intracube
changed nick to: intracube_afk
01:22
Bertl
so what's the current and planned feature set?
01:27
Rebelj12a
Ah current is success with activating recording and built in lanc functions using arduino. Friend of mine has a 3d printer, going to fabricated a control module and run it to the arduino so all the buttons are mapped. Wired connectivity and buttons working-then wireless-then follow focus module and programming-wireless between controller and arduino, presets and auto saved settings for specific cameras and lenses. Auto focus end
01:28
Rebelj12a
Trickiest part there is honestly just making sure I can arm and start recording automatically with the h4n so audio is synced in post. The rest is just time.
01:28
Bertl
I see
01:29
Rebelj12a
Near the end though if its too taxing on the arduino I'll have to set up android functionality and USB control. Leveraging the more powerful processor.
01:31
aombk
so this 4k sample dng you posted on the campaign is without olpf?
01:32
Bertl
correct
01:32
Rebelj12a
Either way time is my enemy. I'm not a Dev or manufacturer, gotta make the money first. Plus the Ronin is giving me a devil of a time. Might have to send it back think there's something wrong with the tilt motor.
01:34
Rebelj12a
In any case why do you ask?
01:35
Bertl
mostly because I'm interested in learning about those things
01:35
Rebelj12a
Hah fair enough
01:35
Bertl
it might not be obvious, but I'm somewhat new to all movie camera
01:35
Rebelj12a
If you can pick up an arduino loads of fun.
01:36
Rebelj12a
Everyone starts somewhere. Hah
01:45
Rebelj12a
Is the Axiom based off Linux? Or is it running a full custom Linux is?
01:47
Rebelj12a
O.o Black magic camera update brb
01:52
Rebelj12a
Ah in camera formatting.
01:57
ItsMeLenny
joined the channel
02:01
dmjnova
left the channel
02:10
dmjnova
joined the channel
02:24
wescotte
Rebelj12a: are you using the ardunio to tell both camera and h4n to start recording at the same time? Or are you syncing clocks on both devices?
02:24
Rebelj12a
BMCC doesn't have timecode sync. Yeah telling them to both start at the same time.
02:28
wescotte
How well does that work? Do you find that telling either device to record pretty predictable in how quickly they actually start recording?
02:29
wescotte
or is it like telling the BMCC to start recording the delay could be anywhere from 10ms to 300ms sorta thing?
02:29
theuberkevlar
left the channel
02:34
Rebelj12a
I haven't had a chance to test it. Its a side project. I'm assuming there will be some delay since its over lanc. To reduce delay I was researching directly bit driving the outputs and bypassing the fabricated interface. Haven't done enough research and testing to make sure that will work yet.
02:34
Rebelj12a
If anything a few ms is better than whole seconds though
02:39
wescotte
sounds like an interesting project. Hopefully since both devices use solid state storage the delay it consistent and thus you program around it
02:39
intracube_afk
left the channel
02:55
Rebelj12a
H4n zoom uses SD. Either way that I can always change timing by position of the initial arm and record press
02:56
wescotte
left the channel
03:01
ItsMeLenny
left the channel
03:05
Bertl
off to bed now ... thanks to everyone for this very successful campaign!
03:06
Bertl
have a good one and cya!
03:06
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
03:44
pizthewiz
left the channel
04:15
wescotte
joined the channel
04:16
Paperhat
joined the channel
04:37
pizthewiz
joined the channel
04:37
pizthewiz
left the channel
05:03
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
05:21
Gegsite
joined the channel
05:32
nnailer
left the channel
05:41
Paperhat
se6astian: Congratulations! Can't wait till April.
05:43
Paperhat
Just curious, can backers of the s35 expect a slight discount due to the higher volume of that sensor being ordered?
05:49
se6astian
hi Paperhat, probably yes, we will thoroughly check prices once we have the total number of cameras
05:53
g3gg0
joined the channel
05:54
g3gg0
uh oh
05:54
g3gg0
approaching 170k
05:56
Gegsite
(Y)
05:59
g3gg0
a user named samuli.torssonen donates 800⬠- is this the producer of iron sky? that would be really cool :)
06:02
vince__
joined the channel
06:04
se6astian
:)
06:04
se6astian
time to go to wokr
06:05
se6astian
see you later
06:05
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
06:06
g3gg0
cuu
06:13
__anton___
joined the channel
06:14
__anton___
Hi Sebastian! Congratulations again on a successful campaign.
06:15
__anton___
Would you mind looking at my thoughts on heat management/body design? I know that document is way too long - I really endulged myself :)
06:15
__anton___
http://octoray.co.uk/axiom/
06:20
Gegsite
I see you are using freecad just as I do
06:22
daFred
joined the channel
06:25
daFred
nice morning folks!
06:26
__anton___
Gegsite: yes it's FreeCAD, my first attempt to sketch anything with it
06:26
Gegsite
left the channel
06:27
g3gg0
left the channel
06:27
daFred
__anton___: good document, needs some time to work through...
06:28
seku_
joined the channel
06:28
seku_
mornings :) felt like rejoining for the last few minutes of the campaign
06:31
mars_
170k!
06:31
seku_
yes, incredible. would have been enough for another stretch goal *grins*
06:32
seku_
they are still selling. 172 now
06:32
mars_
indeed
06:34
daFred
our goal is to find a reasonable body design to keep the costs as low as necessary. So the costs of the mechanical parts should be below 1000 EUR when the sensor costs 1000 EUR and Zedboard 300 EUR.
06:35
waw
joined the channel
06:35
waw
left the channel
06:36
seku_
whoa, will mechanical amount for that much?
06:43
__anton___
daFred: press F5 on my doc, did some fixing.. hope I managed to get the ideas across :)
06:44
daFred
1000 EUR is not the estimated price for mech. parts but you cant get a plastic body for 5 EUR. Even the mold for one are +30k EUR.
06:46
seku_
ah, understandable
06:46
daFred
There are a couple of very precise parts where we can't save money...
06:47
__anton___
left the channel
06:48
seku_
lens and sensor mount i presume
06:48
daFred
yesss
06:54
wescotte
Congrats guys! That's one heck of a finish!
06:54
Paperhat
left the channel
06:55
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
06:57
se6astian
the last 3 minutes
06:57
se6astian
official countdown
06:57
daFred
hi sebastian, is this a wet dream?
06:57
se6astian
Actually I had rather nervous dreams :)
06:57
wescotte
Curious... Does Indiegogo let you extend the time?
06:58
se6astian
as the last perk was running out....
06:58
se6astian
yes indiegogo lets any campaign extend it one time to a total of 60 day campaign duration
06:58
se6astian
90 seconds!
06:59
se6astian
50 seconds
06:59
se6astian
20
06:59
se6astian
10
06:59
se6astian
5
06:59
se6astian
4
06:59
se6astian
3
06:59
se6astian
2
06:59
se6astian
1
07:00
se6astian
0
07:00
mars_
over!
07:00
se6astian
hurray
07:00
daFred
yipieyeeee
07:00
se6astian
174,520 â¬
07:01
wescotte
Well, now what? :)
07:01
mars_
a big, shiny office
07:02
daFred
on the bermudas..
07:02
wescotte
One last tab open in the old browser
07:03
daFred
or cayman islands...
07:04
wescotte
one less...
07:08
dmjnova
congrats everyone!
07:09
vince__
left the channel
07:16
se6astian
thanks!
07:19
Even
good morning! i see the stretchlimousine goal was reached. happy day!! =)
07:27
philippej
joined the channel
07:28
seku_
ah, was that the hidden 170k goal
07:32
daFred
the hidden goal was at 175k :-(((
07:33
seku_
ahh, so close
07:33
Juicyfruit
congratulations se6astian and everyone who worked hard to reach this !
07:34
philippej
Morning everyone, I just discovered what hapened "tonight". This is crazy great !
07:41
KurtAugust
joined the channel
07:42
philippej_
joined the channel
07:42
KurtAugust
Ok, once again congratulations! Coming from the -ahem- last funder of the campaign!
07:43
se6astian
Thanks!
07:43
se6astian
KurtAugust: you waited for the last minute :D
07:44
se6astian
actually I just got an email from someone who waited one more minute
07:44
se6astian
and wasnt able to donate anymore :)
07:45
philippej
left the channel
07:47
daFred
you could extend the campaign "in private" with donations on the apertus page. leave a message on the campaign site...
07:48
KurtAugust
Yes and no, it wasn't my first donation. But, great fun anyhow. You were right when you wrote on the ML forum how campaigns usually gain momentum at the end. Seems like there will already be a big difference between the first beta that leaves and the last one. So many batches!
07:52
KurtAugust
left the channel
07:52
KurtAugust
joined the channel
07:56
KurtAugust
left the channel
07:57
__anton__
left the channel
07:57
seku_
maybe someone should sell upgrade trip flights to vienna
07:57
seku_
:D
07:57
__anton__
joined the channel
07:57
Rebelj12a
Well congrats everyone!
07:57
se6astian
thanks :)
08:01
daFred
__anton__: thank you for your input, we will keep it in mind because the current designs is not final for sure...
08:01
se6astian
some stats
08:02
se6astian
the final campaign day (last 24h) was the strongest in the entire campaign
08:02
se6astian
⬠36,000
08:02
se6astian
stronger than launch day (second strongest day): ⬠28,000
08:02
mars_
yeah, i went to sleep when it was around 135k
08:02
mars_
and suddenly 174k!
08:04
Even
1.5k per hour. impressive!
08:05
derWalter
joined the channel
08:09
derWalter
moin
08:09
derWalter
sooooo.... where does the party take place?
08:11
seku_
vienna i suppose.
08:12
derWalter
hehe, hope so, but when and where is the question :)
08:13
seku_
maybe they are already off celebrating :)
08:13
mars_
opens the first bottle of champagne
08:14
seku_
i opened one yesterday. for my birthday, and the best bday present ever :)
08:17
KurtAugust
joined the channel
08:19
KurtAugust
left the channel
08:19
derWalter
hey man, i got 175000⬠as birthdaypresent!!!!
08:20
seku_
:D
08:24
wescotte
left the channel
08:31
derWalter
for windows users: http://dimio.altervista.org/eng/ the tool Dsyncronize rocks!! (syncronizing two folders in realtime)
08:38
daFred_
joined the channel
08:38
aPinky
left the channel
08:39
Topic
apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | Currently Hot: AXIOM Beta Crowd Funding is Live: http://igg.me/at/axiom-beta | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
08:39
se6astian
has set the topic
08:40
daFred
left the channel
08:45
troisdsman
joined the channel
09:04
g3gg0
joined the channel
09:32
__anton__
left the channel
09:39
__anton__
joined the channel
09:39
troisdsman
left the channel
09:42
daFred_
Se6astian: what do you think about setting a donations link on the campaign page as there will be still a lot of traffic there for some days....
09:49
philippej__
joined the channel
09:53
philippej_
left the channel
09:53
philippej__
daFred_, we'd like to make it fair for those who trusted us and comited -in time- for the campaign. Else in 5 years we'll still be selling axiom beta vouchers:-) Otoh, the donation page is up. Beside, we'll come up with a solution quickly for those who discovered the project too late :-)
09:54
__anton__
left the channel
10:01
daFred_
i didn't mean to sell anything with this link, just to use the opportunity to support the development further.
10:05
daFred_
I might even post the link in the comments. Should I ?
10:06
se6astian
please dont
10:06
se6astian
we have everything planned out already
10:06
daFred_
ok..
10:06
se6astian
patience young padavan :)
10:06
se6astian
its just 3h after campaign end
10:10
derWalter
left the channel
10:18
Gegsite
joined the channel
10:24
derWalter
joined the channel
10:26
derWalter
omg... after weeks of using kaspersky on my laptop which handles my internetconnection, it decides that my homenetwork is not trusted anymore and blocks all traffic on it ^^
10:30
derWalter
left the channel
10:32
philippej__
left the channel
10:33
derWalter
joined the channel
10:34
derWalter
se6astian: can we build something liike this: http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/433/887/498/498887433_749.jpg pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaseeeeeeeeee!
10:34
philippej
joined the channel
10:34
morrigan
joined the channel
10:36
FergusL
congratulationns !
10:38
derWalter
or something like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVIr9MyqLqc
10:45
seku_
left the channel
10:48
se6astian
I had more something like this in mind: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nE1fzM6MD14/maxresdefault.jpg
10:49
se6astian
FergusL: thanks!
10:51
FergusL
I am eternally sorry, I said I wanted to contribute a symbolic donation but didn't do it... I watched it evolved and thought "oh I'll do it near the end..;" but now the end has passed ! hahaha ! stupid...
10:51
philippej
don't worry, support is not only about money
10:54
aombk
did you people believed it, that the campaign would turn out so successful?
10:58
se6astian
FergusL: I think we are covered even without your contribution :)
10:59
se6astian
aombk: mid campaign it was even hard to believe we will reach the goal at all
11:00
derWalter
i belive ML gave the turn
11:00
aombk
i wonder what triggered the popularity increase, apart from the ml support. or is this what always happens to crowd funding campaigns?
11:01
philippej
will we ever know ?
11:01
se6astian
not really :)
11:03
aombk
maybe statistics can be revealing if you correlate with other events (like blogs mentioning the campaign)
11:03
aombk
but maybe its just that people wait till the end to decide
11:05
se6astian
stats will be published soon
11:05
se6astian
working on it now
11:07
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
11:07
derWalter
moin Bertl
11:07
Bertl
morning folks!
11:07
philippej
Morning Bertl !
11:07
Bertl
\o/
11:08
FergusL
I think what happened is pretty common in crowd funding
11:09
se6astian
good morning
11:11
FergusL
se6astian: actually all I really wanted was the t shirt and stickers :)
11:11
FergusL
So you're covered, I'm not, all my fault !
11:14
aombk
FergusL, if you suggest something great to visit in paris i can give you my apertus button
11:16
FergusL
Leloop hackerspace, best ever
11:17
FergusL
If you're there this week end we run open doors days
11:17
aombk
here is an idea. we can reverse engineer the stickers/tshirts/buttons
11:18
FergusL
Hahaha good idea yeah
11:22
philippej
left the channel
11:25
philippej
joined the channel
11:29
se6astian
nooo, I will use the most proprietary t-shirt I can find
11:29
se6astian
it wont even have openings for your arms!
11:30
Bertl
with strong encryption!
11:31
se6astian
yes, the text will be totally unreadable!
11:32
aombk
use color shifting inks
11:37
__anton__
joined the channel
11:39
Umibuta
joined the channel
11:40
__anton__
Guys, could smb tell me how Nikon lens mount is going to be made? Is it planned to be 2 parts: barrel + ring? How is the barrel going to be made? How is it coated black on the inside?
11:41
aombk
i dont know why, but i keep refreshing the campaign page.
11:41
Umibuta
Congratulations!! I expected it to cross 150K last night but 170K??? WOW!!
11:41
aombk
it became a habbit
11:41
aombk
habit
11:42
__anton__
Cant stop thinking of an alternative body design but my fantasy seems to be running too wild on the lens mount
11:45
philippej
left the channel
11:45
Umibuta
Would it be possible to receive the Beta on a later date when it's ready? Like a month or 2 later?
11:46
Umibuta
Mine is the 2nd batch but financially after May will be much more comfortable for me
11:47
se6astian
__anton__: We can tell you how the Alpha lens mount was made: the first prototype was CNC milled silver aluminum, the second prototype was CNC milled black POM, the bayonet ring is a second part
11:47
derWalter
regarding soldering a lot: http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=8c46817f27ae58954d0ef2b87848c18e&topic=2770.msg19337#msg19337
11:47
se6astian
we took the bayonet ring from second hand analog nikon cameras for the Alpha
11:48
se6astian
for the Beta we will streamline that process a bit :)
11:48
se6astian
we already have a source for bayonet rings
11:48
se6astian
Umibuta: sure, you can decide when to get your Beta
11:48
se6astian
we will first ask first batch owners, then second, .....
11:49
se6astian
but you can always choose to wait
11:49
se6astian
not infinitely though as we can only produce larger volume batches not single cameras :)
11:50
Umibuta
Thanks!! That's good to hear and I understand your concern on economy of scale :)
11:51
__anton__
se6astian: so it's a thin ring which you screw to the barrel? My main question then is how the barrel is going to be made? And how is it going to be coated in black on the inside?
11:52
Umibuta
Coating the inside black? If it's aluminum what about anondizing?
11:54
__anton__
I was wondering if the barrel could be one piece with a few other things - 2 or 3 tripod sockets and some decorative elenents to give one of the body designs i have in mind a vintage look
11:55
se6astian
__anton__: sure why not
11:55
se6astian
the barrel has just two basic requirements
11:55
se6astian
1. put the bayonet ring at the right distance to the sensor (FFD)
11:56
se6astian
2. be strong enough to hold the lens and camera body together properly without any material bending or light leak
11:57
__anton__
E.g. can it be made on a processing center from a larger brick of aluminium.. wanted to know how expensive that is.. if we are anodising we have to anodise the whole thing right? And it gets more expensive with size too doesnt it?
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11:57
se6astian
not sure if anodising is a good coating for reducing light reflections next to the sensor
11:58
se6astian
sure you can cut it from a brick of aluminum, the more you cut away the more expensive the part will be
12:01
Bertl
a number of tricks can be used to make the inside non-reflective
12:02
__anton__
Being a total noob in this.. how do you coat it then? Powder coating? And protects some of the surfaces which you dont want painted? We surely dont want to paint the side facing the camera least ffd is not maintained?
12:03
Bertl
spraying like with car parts for example would work
12:03
Bertl
(you can mask off the base/top)
12:04
Bertl
but please folks, collect all the ideas on the wiki
12:04
aombk
i know a super great black mat spray paint
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12:10
Umibuta
Is manufacturing the body or aluminum parts out of EU out of the question?
12:11
se6astian
no but we need to be sure whereever it is made that people are paid fairly and there are health and safety standards that are on paar with inner EU ones
12:11
Bertl
which should be fine for e.g. the US
12:13
aombk
http://www.motip.com/products/motip/automotive/universal-lacquers/lacquer-black/
12:13
aombk
and this http://www.motip.com/products/motip/automotive/car-repair-lacquers/primer/
12:14
Umibuta
I had some stuff made in Singapore. Milled and anodised. How much it compares to EU and the shipping/taxes involved might be a concern.
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12:54
philippej_
quick front end builder, might be interesting for us : https://github.com/BrentNoorda/slfsrv
13:10
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13:11
Umibuta
I was looking for some of the drawings that I had made. The dimensions are similar to the size of the Beta. I could get a quote for you just for cost comparison purpose if needed. No harm asking.
13:16
Bertl
sounds good
13:23
Umibuta
Also a question/ suggestion. How different are the barrel size for different lenses? If they are not too different, would it be better to have the barrel part of the body?
13:23
Umibuta
For different lenses, maybe a different flange instead?
13:26
Bertl
adds another interface with tolerances
13:29
Umibuta
Sorry. I don't understand.
13:51
derWalter
as it gets down to business now, i want to drop two links, which are very important to me and my future. i want to work like and with this in all the projects i engage with: https://www.ecogood.org/ and http://www.mitgruenden.at/ - both links are in german and mostly relevant for businesses/associations/companies and individuals, from/located in germany and austria
13:59
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14:20
Umibuta
derWalter: Thanks. It is interesting to read how community/economy ethics have evolved.
14:25
Umibuta
Maybe I should clarify that I am not promoting a certain workshop just for economic reasons but also my experiences and capability of the workshop.
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14:42
__anton__
Guys how versatile are these processing centers? Can they easily and cheaply create a curved surface like half an egg from aluminium? (A designer may be waking up in me :-])
14:44
derWalter
wow, thats a hard one, this needs either to be cast, where you need a casting form and molten alloy or milled from a solid block
14:45
derWalter
and after milling it needs to be sanded, brushed and so forth
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14:45
__anton__
Okay okay I see - too complex for us :)
14:45
derWalter
alloy is a very very very harmfull ressource :/ better to focus on organis fibers
14:46
derWalter
i was thinking of ways to easiely create like 100 cases at once made out of wood
14:46
derWalter
wouldnt even be that much work
14:46
derWalter
it would be lightweight, easy to build, ecological and maybe even very cheap
14:46
__anton__
You mean it costs lots of pollution to get aluminium?
14:47
derWalter
hell yeah...
14:47
derWalter
ULTRA lots
14:47
derWalter
as its done by electric energy, every alloymine hast one or two coal powerplants next to it...
14:48
comradekingu
We must use Norwegian aluminium
14:48
derWalter
coal powerplants cause the largest mines are in africa and there ecological and social factors dont count, es the industries down there are run by multinational companies :/
14:48
comradekingu
hydropowered aluminium
14:49
Umibuta
Normally before casting you need to make the mold and that can be tedious and expensive. But recent methods involve using 3D printers to shape the mold, therefore reducing the cost.
14:50
comradekingu
just get sheet alu and bend it, thats cheap and easy, albeit a bit timeconsuming
14:50
derWalter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bauxite
14:50
derWalter
hrhrhr: http://eramet.no/en/environment-and-climate/
14:53
__anton__
I think Russian alluminium is also mostly melted on hydropower. Minght nit be that evil after all :)
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14:57
derWalter
well, thats just one side of alloy...
14:58
derWalter
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/red-mud-toxic-waste-of-aluminum-refining-1.906411
14:59
derWalter
alloy is all over a cool material to work with, but horrible for the ecosystem
14:59
comradekingu
__anton__: the russians have atomic power that makes a bad joke of even the simplest safety measures. And their mining is not very clean
15:00
Bertl
well, if go there, we probably won't be able to build anything except for a wooden tripod maybe :)
15:01
Bertl
don't get me wrong, I'm all pro eco system but it's not the materials or the production, it is the careless handling or cheap production techniques
15:02
Bertl
that red toxic mud could have been easily recycled
15:04
se6astian
be back later!
15:04
se6astian
see you
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se6astian
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15:06
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15:06
derWalter
and its the planned obsolecence
15:08
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15:08
derWalter
a modular system has a pro and a contra side to this, pro side, old parts can be reused, contra side you will more likely change a parts of the system, more often, as you dont have to switch the whole system anymore. even on the contra side there is the pro that you switch just one part and not the whole, but! the danger is to use cheap materials/building processes so the hardware fails more often, but doesent hurt so much as sin
15:09
derWalter
and for low cost. ... that should be a trap to be watched and countered with and in the name and meaning of quality!
15:10
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15:10
derWalter
(in east germany for instance, household products must have had a productlifetime of a minimum of 25 years, to be allowed to be sold! they had lighning bulbs with 100 000 hours lifetime, but after the wall fell, they bought the patents for it and whoops, to never be seen again)
15:11
derWalter
... but thats a thing on which i get going on for ever, sorry for that... i am just so hurt by the way we are treating our world and the planet we live on ://
15:11
derWalter
(and i am a tech junkie myself :(( )
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15:18
__anton__
derWalter: I am totally with you here, things should last
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15:22
derWalter
that is a big hope for me regarding apertus, to build a real qualityproduct, which lasts and like good wine, just gets better over the years :) grows and grows but doesnt break :) a hardcore hq camera.
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15:36
Bertl
philippej_: problem with the client?
15:36
philippej_
yes :-)
15:37
philippej_
now should be ok, sorry for all those "has quit"
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15:52
Bertl
we just thought you want to quit on us :)
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15:55
intracube
â¬174,520 :D
15:55
intracube
congrats Bertl, se6astian|away + Apertus team!
15:59
philippej_
thanks :-)
15:59
philippej_
and no worries(?) Bertl I'm here to stay :-)
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16:06
Bertl
intracube: thanks!
16:22
Rebelj12a
Hmm will the system be modifiable on the programming side?
16:29
philippej_
testing phabricator, it's a very exciting tool :-)
16:30
philippej_
Rebelj12a, what do you mean exactly? Every piece of software will be open source, so providing you have the skills, yes it will
16:32
Rebelj12a
Ah ok, will there be an emulation software possibly. Came across the idea when I was looking at Arri's virtual camera. Something like that but also with a programming emulator similar to how android can test its apps without breaking a physical phone. Might make it safer for more complex programs
16:33
philippej_
it depends on what layer you'd like to test.
16:33
philippej_
it can be as low level as hardware design (fpga code) that is supposed to be emulated, but I don't know if it really works in practice
16:34
Rebelj12a
Hmm I suppose that is more complex.
16:34
philippej_
then you have the linux layer, meaning you could test stuff on a similar linux install on a normal computer
16:34
philippej_
then probably the script layer, be it php or wathever, that you can test on any server
16:35
philippej_
and probably some arduino code (or similar) which is also testable
16:35
philippej_
is that what you have in mind ?
16:36
Rebelj12a
All my of my favorite codes. Yeah I was just thinking there are people who are going to want to push the limits of the system. I suppose its more complex than android though. Where emulation as proof of concept beforehand is.more difficult
16:37
philippej_
well there is another option
16:37
philippej_
you can grab a microzed dev board and start right now
16:37
philippej_
you "only" risk a 200$ device
16:38
philippej_
the most expensive device, the sensor could be emulated as well, but it's not a trivial task
16:38
Rebelj12a
Hm interesting.
16:39
Rebelj12a
I like that solution, I'm just tossing ideas around so.
16:42
Rebelj12a
I just hope that people keep it open source.
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16:50
Bertl
we will definitely keep everything open source
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17:03
Rebelj12a
Well yeah, are there going to be efforts however to discourage devs and programmers from charging for updates for their particular renditions or revisions, flavors even if you will.
17:03
Rebelj12a
Especially if one becomes quite popular.
17:03
Rebelj12a
You see this often with PHP which is what my degree is in.
17:06
Rebelj12a
People charging for themes or templates etc.
17:14
Rebelj12a
I'm probably just over thinking it.
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17:27
derWalter
as long as you stop soon ENOUGH, you are not overthinking it :)
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17:30
Rebelj12a
I never stop ideas just pop in randomly and / or all at once.
17:31
Rebelj12a
I've had a dystopian dream where Linux was no longer open and everyone charged for updates or features... D:
17:34
derWalter
tbh, that can happen every day... its just a question of licences and patents
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17:44
Rebelj12a
Yeah that's why I was wondering. Then on the other hand with it being Linux people can program in all sorts of licensing schemes, I'll draw my comparisons from working with Minecraft which is not open source but hey its java and lots of people can code it. Where software that works with it can become very popular on its own, however certain greedy administrators take that open source code API and charge for features of it for "e
17:45
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17:46
Raj__
Hey congrats guys
17:46
Rebelj12a
Granted not quite the same thing and drawing a younger crowd being a game doss have some unsavory elements to it but its a concern.
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17:58
_Raj_
Say if I want to upgrade my sensor to a better/next gen sensor in the future may an year from now.....what are my options?
17:58
derWalter
buying the sensor and plugging it in
17:59
_Raj_
Lol
17:59
derWalter
thats the concept of open hardware
17:59
derWalter
well.... an open architecture at least :)
17:59
_Raj_
Got it derWalter...may be I'll try to put my question this way
17:59
derWalter
what sensor do we need for this shot now...
17:59
Rebelj12a
Hm although wouldn't the Linux kernel need to be updated with drivers for the new module?
18:00
Rebelj12a
Different hardware and all that?
18:00
derWalter
well, i guess u have to unplugg the camera from the powersource anyways
18:00
derWalter
so a reboot seems to be mendatory
18:01
Rebelj12a
Well yes but on a base level in order for Linux to register new hardware it needs to have the kernel drivers modified, especially if the new sensor has different specifications or wodnt you be limited to the previous sensors capabilities since none of the operating system functions have been updated?
18:02
_Raj_
All the existing cinema cameras, atleast the expensive ones, supposedly the best ones like f65, dragon and alexa sensors are custom made if not home grown.......So, is it possible for this open camera movement to reach those cameras level at any point in the hisotry? if yes how?
18:03
Rebelj12a
One would argue this one has the potential, if not already is. Granted the Alexa has a whole slew of nice features.
18:03
Q_
What do you mean with "level"?
18:03
_Raj_
level in terms of best sensor available in the market
18:04
Rebelj12a
Although expensive fluff its nice fluff nonetheless.
18:04
Rebelj12a
Its not all about pixel peeping D:, arguably though right now, you could buy the Alexa sensor and put it in the Beta right?
18:04
seku
if such nice sensors were available and affordable and with open datasheets, i guess axiom would use them
18:04
Q_
There is no such thing as a "best sensor". There are different things in what it can be best.
18:05
seku
better to look at what we get than at what we dont get
18:05
seku
and we really get a lot
18:05
Rebelj12a
Oh yes.
18:05
seku
something like a PC-based raw recording solution... wonderful
18:06
_Raj_
@Q ofcourse my requisite is DR and lowlight performance
18:06
Rebelj12a
Although couldn't this be a discouragement from any major manufacturers to create accessories for the beta. Since the market isn't guaranteed because of just how customizable it is. There's no guarantee of a market for a particular item.
18:06
seku
i mean, an MLed 5D is already up to par with a lot of cinema cams in 1080p
18:06
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18:07
Rebelj12a
Mk3 try raw 2k
18:07
Rebelj12a
Anyways yeah.
18:07
seku
its way too good for me already, the axiom will be too
18:07
seku
1080p, 2k ... no difference :)
18:07
_Raj_
@seku that's my point MLed 5d has a sensor manufactured by Canon
18:07
Rebelj12a
For vfx and 3d compositing, big difference
18:08
seku
dynamic range between the canon and the c12000 seems similar
18:08
seku
canon has the edge on low light, for sure :D
18:08
_Raj_
:)
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18:09
seku
but iirc alexML already cooked some ideas with 300fps image averaging, the HDR mode
18:09
_Raj_
BM 4k has c12000 right?
18:09
seku
there will be lots of funny things coming along.
18:09
seku
afaik
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se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
18:10
derWalter
300gps@4k, thats around 8gb/s
18:10
seku
the cion seems to use it too. i dont know which revision or what implementation. but the beta wont necessarily behave like those cams. its open, and there will be a lot of tweaking and searching
18:10
_Raj_
Yes man, it's fun....The philosophy is what attacted me to this not the technology at this moment
18:12
seku
4k at 30fps is 530ish, so 5gigs/sec-ish for 300fps 10bit. now imagine adding a 64gig RAM board.
18:12
_Raj_
Any sensor experts: what percentage of an image's credit can be attributed to the actual sensor and what percentage to tweaking?
18:12
seku
now you have 10 seconds at 300fps. thats a lot xD
18:12
Rebelj12a
I mean the sensor may require more or different processing than the built in one. However all those things can be addressed with the open source programming.
18:13
dmjnova
_Raj_: think about color grading
18:13
seku
well, what the axiom team has done is really impressive with the alpha. and same for ML with ... mlv and dual-iso. fun times ahead
18:13
dmjnova
how much of a final image is the RAW and how much is the post processing?
18:13
seku
Rebelj12a, thats the big advantage, processing is reprogrammable... FPGA
18:13
derWalter
and you can push the time a lot more by reducing the resolution
18:13
derWalter
you can even push the fps by doing so
18:14
derWalter
i read somewhere that around 1000fps should be possible at a lower resolution
18:14
seku
afaik there is no fixed processing
18:14
Rebelj12a
If we really needed to leverage more processing based on the board, it may be possible to use another board or hooked up Linux computer and leveraging Linux's cluster computing algorithms to get more processing power.
18:14
seku
alexML uttered some thoughts along those lines, extrapolating something like 800 at 1080p
18:14
derWalter
just by the specs and processing of the sensor...
18:14
derWalter
yes
18:15
dmjnova
seku yes, everything beyond the initial acquisition is reprogrammable, plus we can change how the fpga board uses the sensor
18:15
seku
Rebelj12a, the FPGA is already very powerful
18:15
seku
and there are talks about adding parallela boards
18:15
derWalter
he went down the math path till the theoretical maximum which is something over 1000fps but at very very very low resolution
18:15
derWalter
bertl got 4 parallella boards for testing already
18:15
seku
and the axiom is a linux computer :)
18:15
seku
derWalter, great news!
18:16
Q_
So what CPU will it use?
18:16
Rebelj12a
Aha awesome thanks seku. Yeah Linux makes all this fantastically possible. Which is the amazing part.
18:16
_Raj_
I am not talking about color grading here, how much percentage/stops of DR, Lowlight perf can be improved with tweaking at the programming level
18:16
seku
ARM for the linux cores, FPGA for sensor data
18:16
seku
FPN correction, LUTs, all that stuff
18:16
Rebelj12a
They aren't soldered to the board? Or are they?
18:17
Q_
_Raj_: If you can do oversampling, you can get more out of it. But I have no idea how to do that properly with something that is moving.
18:17
seku
_Raj_, the Cmosis is quite programmable itself. naturally DR and lowlight is a limit of the sensor.
18:17
Q_
That is, shoot at say 300 fps, reduce it to 60 fps
18:18
seku
the HDR is something like doing a LOG curve on the sensor level... and multisampling can be done because the sensor does 300fps... and fast hardware can be connected to it
18:18
Rebelj12a
Dual I so and such is a great software hack to expand this. That's why the ML announcement was so exciting to me at least.
18:18
seku
they are already having fun with the LOG curve and the 3 HDR modes the sensor provides
18:18
seku
i think its all in the campaign updates
18:19
Rebelj12a
I'm still learning the firmware side, however the Linux and arduino which I have experience with is all so exciting.
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18:20
_Raj_
very interesting HDR modes provided by the sensor
18:21
seku
thats why apertus insisted on choosing sensor with open and freely available datasheets... afaik
18:22
Rebelj12a
Although most things that aren't open if you do it right can be backwards engineered through various means which is how magic lantern worked on canon firnware
18:23
seku
im really happy MLV gets on board too. means the postprocessing workflow i use (chmee's raw2cdng) will be working.
18:24
seku
ML just *hooks* into the canon firmware for the camera interaction.
18:24
seku
those hooks are open and documented on the axiom. no reverse engineering
18:28
seku
free experimenting :D
18:36
Rebelj12a
Yeah exactly
18:37
Rebelj12a
Are there audio engineers on the axiom team as well?
18:39
seku
afaik no audio yet. but.. you see, on the remote stretch goal i had seen something that looked like timecode ;)
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18:41
Rebelj12a
Ah ok, background I'm more of a hobbyist engineer at this point but as a filmmaker I know there are a few pillars of good film. Audio is one of them and the built in audio on the BMCC leaves much to be desired and is the cause of many complaints.
18:41
_Raj_
Its going to be interesting how the axiom team comes with a PC RAW recording method
18:42
Even
<-- audio engineer
18:42
Rebelj12a
Almost one of the reasons I wanted to get the beta and home grow an HDMI out pro res recording at the very least.
18:43
Rebelj12a
Ah good I'm glad its handled then.
18:43
_Raj_
I am least bothered about audio right now, the place I come from we do ADR for sound most of the times......inbuilt audio for scratch's always good though
18:43
Rebelj12a
The h4n and the BMCC the preamp leaves much to be desired. It seems the ticket to good audio will be a decent preamp.
18:45
Rebelj12a
Its almost too much, the axiom camera really inspires far too many ideas to actually make in a lifetime XD
18:47
surami
I think with this project there will appear some mini opensource 4K RAW recoding PC-s too.
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18:59
Rebelj12a
Nice
18:59
KurtAugust
Rebelj12a: Forget the h4n. Terrible preamps. Yes. I just got a tascam dr-60. Also cheap and much cleaner preamps.
19:02
KurtAugust
Only have to solder a new connector for the battery packs I've made for the h4n. But as it is the battery life is already much better. So let's not worry about the beta's audio too much for now....
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19:06
KurtAugust
But I admit I love MLV with sound on the MLed 5dIII. So much less work in post.
19:07
Rebelj12a
Yeah I want the H6 to replace it. All the inputs with modules.
19:08
Rebelj12a
Yeah I have my h4n connected to a Redrock power distributor.
19:08
Rebelj12a
Helps a lot.
19:09
surami
guys, we should speak about Axiom :)
19:09
surami
Beta
19:09
Even
i don't even need sound on my beta =)
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19:11
Rebelj12a
From a filmmakers perspective audio is just one of the things I've seen a lot of complaints about with the BMCC. Which is why I brought it up. Didn't remember reading anything about audio on the axiom
19:11
Rebelj12a
Well at least the beta
19:12
Even
there will be nice modules in the gamma =)
19:12
surami
this can solve things :) http://www.freesound.org/people/themfish/sounds/45808/
19:13
Rebelj12a
Awesome
19:15
surami
somebody has an idea, that how the 4K or smaller RAW direct recording to PC will be solved?
19:16
surami
PCIe to SSD maybe?
19:21
KurtAugust
joined the channel
19:21
Rebelj12a
Hopefully something that can take more punishment. Pcie connections can be delicate. Plus most ssd are sata connections
19:22
Even
@sound haha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-oHYTQyTEk
19:23
__anton__
joined the channel
19:23
surami
:D
19:24
KurtAugust
left the channel
19:25
seku
about audio... i think the easiest would be to just get a sound devices recorder and sync via timecode
19:25
seku
just my take
19:26
Rebelj12a
Indeed time code sync is the way to do it.
19:28
seku
nice autotune vid :)
19:28
seku
iirc there were trials and tribulations to get timecode out of ML RAW... it just didnt sync right
19:29
surami
Rebelj12a: there are PCIe SSD boards
19:29
seku
no such problems with the axiom
19:30
seku
the problem will probably to make it easy... and cheap.
19:30
surami
if PCIe interface can be added to the PicoZed or MicroZed or I don't know
19:30
seku
HDMI feels like the way to go for the axiom. as we have 3 ports already
19:31
seku
so the pc part would essentially be a HDMI stream to ssd recorder...
19:31
surami
then a PCIe SSD board could be used for buffer
19:31
seku
or an S-ata
19:31
surami
and after that transfer the data to PC
19:32
surami
but engineers here could say more
19:32
surami
I'm just thinking loud
19:32
seku
lets calculate... 4kraw at 30fps is 530mbyte/sec
19:33
seku
youd need that as sustained write.
19:33
seku
one SSD on s-ata might suffice for 4k24p
19:34
seku
same here, also thinking out loud :)
19:34
seku
for 60p that means a minimum of 2 SSDs
19:34
tyrone_
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19:34
Rebelj12a
Ram buffer processing?
19:34
surami
yes
19:34
surami
like as ML do it..
19:35
seku
if the CPU/whatevs can handle realtime jpeg lossless compression (which i doubt) you could essentially halve the bandwidth
19:35
Rebelj12a
Mhmm
19:36
surami
1 DNG is around 24-25 MB as I know
19:36
tyrone_
sorry for disturb the picozed with the 7015 and 7030 has pci express ip cores
19:36
Rebelj12a
Unless it was processed directly using an algorithm, like what RED does with its processing.
19:36
tyrone_
but they are closed ip cores.
19:36
seku
heh
19:36
seku
i see, thats why
19:37
surami
i'm not engineer, what closed ip core mean?
19:37
tyrone_
so you cant share it
19:37
tyrone_
they have license that you can only use with the xilinx zynq fpga's
19:37
surami
i see
19:37
Rebelj12a
Dedicated cores for for just PCI express?
19:38
seku
unfortunate for us :)
19:38
Rebelj12a
Hm
19:38
surami
then what is the solution, use another board?
19:39
seku
the campaign said it would be a PC recording solution
19:39
__anton__
left the channel
19:39
tyrone_
it's vhdl code that you get with the zynq fpga's and you have license restrictions so it cloud be problematic to publish public and share.... (not 100% shure)
19:39
Rebelj12a
On the beta at least
19:39
seku
and the axiom page hints at packing RAW files into a HDMI stream
19:39
seku
it sounds most sensible.
19:40
Rebelj12a
That would be brilliant. What is it hdmi 3 now? Can't remember the revision but it has built in Ethernet capability.
19:40
tyrone_
well you can develop a gpl pcie
19:40
surami
tyron_: i see, but then how to transfer 25 MB x Y frame to the PC?
19:41
seku
i dont remember the revision, but it is capable for 1080p60... which in turm allows for RAW 4k30
19:41
surami
ah ok :)
19:41
seku
but as we know there are 3 ports :)
19:41
tyrone_
opencores.org has a lot ip cores but they have to be portet to the zynq and also testing if it works...
19:42
Rebelj12a
HDMI 1.4 is the most recent. 100mb/s transfer rate
19:42
seku
i gather that in/camera raw recording will be on gamma... beta sounds too early
19:42
Rebelj12a
Someone could do it I'm sure.
19:42
seku
but i will let myself be surprised positively if they manage that
19:43
Rebelj12a
http://mycablemart.com/help/hdmi_which_one.php HDMI 2.0
19:43
seku
sure, its just that there is still so much to do
19:43
Rebelj12a
Don't think its out yet.
19:43
seku
HDMI2 is out on TVs
19:43
seku
and monitors
19:43
seku
but not on that axiom board i suppose
19:43
Rebelj12a
Well once beta gets out to investors I'm sure people will tinker.
19:43
seku
1.4 at most i guess
19:43
seku
sure they will. but i think the hdmi capture way will work first
19:45
dmjnova
surami: it's not impossible obviously, but pci-e would require us to write our own pci-e core, which is a significant amount of work
19:45
Rebelj12a
Eh I see more progress being made with 6g SDI. Seems more probable.
19:45
Rebelj12a
http://wolfcrow.com/blog/what-is-6g-sdi/
19:45
seku
from se6astian on the DVXiser forums : RAW over HDMI we envision to work like this:
19:45
seku
A single 24Bit 4:4:4 (8bit per channel) pixel can actually store the value of two 12bit RAW pixels (2x 12bit = 24bit). So with 1080p60 we could already store 12bit UHD RAW 30 FPS video.
19:45
seku
The image just needs to be properly interpreted in post production but that you need to do with any raw format anyway.
19:46
yanez
joined the channel
19:46
seku
Rebelj12a, true. for the axiom. but sdi6g seems prohibitively expensive for the beta
19:46
seku
#axiom gamma
19:46
Rebelj12a
True true. At least on a large scale.
19:47
seku
well, we will find sooner or later :D
19:47
yanez
hi guys
19:48
seku
hi yanez
19:48
tyrone_
for a relative simple solution to transfer data to the computer it's possible to use a cypress usb3.0 chip. http://www.cypress.com/fx3/
19:49
surami
dmjnova: yes I can imagine that it's not simple, I don't have this kind of knowledge, I just started to search the availabe options on the board and think loud
19:49
yanez
I have saw that you were speaking about audio in the beta camera
19:50
surami
maybe I'm already at Gamma again :D
19:50
seku
surami, i remember Bertl saying that implementing usb3 being exceedingly difficult. its a tough protocol, tough to reach high throughputs.
19:50
seku
a simpler protocol is needed probably
19:50
tyrone_
question is more if you want to have it or not.
19:50
seku
yanez, we were hypothesizing a bit
19:51
seku
theoreticeally very theoretically ... with 3 HDMIs the beta could reach 90 fps
19:51
seku
but where to go with all that data :)
19:51
surami
90 fps what?
19:51
seku
4k
19:51
surami
8 bit?
19:51
seku
12
19:52
__anton__
joined the channel
19:52
seku
each HDMI channel can handle 4k30frames at 12bit
19:52
yanez
in the yesterday's chat, 8th October at the line 180 at h 15:12 yanez, I posted my Suggestion for audio. is very naive, because I'm not an engineer, but I hope I can give some idea
19:52
surami
and how to put it on an SSD eg.
19:52
seku
so 3 hdmi ports add up to 90
19:53
surami
ok, and how you record the data?
19:53
seku
surami, thats the challenge :D
19:53
surami
or money..
19:53
Rebelj12a
left the channel
19:54
seku
yanez, yesterday you were proposing some kind of early timecode
19:54
surami
that's why I started to think about that buffered solution somehow
19:55
seku
(timecode is a lot of beeps that get recorded on one audio channel. which can be transformed by software automatically to a timestamp). that kind of audio can sync up automatically with the video (if the metadata has the right timestamp)
19:55
seku
and thats the way i suppose audio will work at first with the beta
19:57
seku
i look forward to the work done on lossless jpeg compression
19:57
seku
it *could* keep 4k30 down to below 300megs/sec. easy for an SSD
19:58
seku
still 800 gigs per hour *coughs*
19:59
yanez
so this timecode signal should be recorded on an audio channel as should have done with my bips?
19:59
_Raj_
left the channel
19:59
seku
yes, it takes one audio channel
20:00
seku
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timecode
20:00
__anton__
left the channel
20:01
aombk
anybody has experience with wordpress gallery plugins?
20:01
seku
5 years ago yes... not up to date at all anymore
20:01
surami
so in theory we can get 12bit 4K 30 fps RAW out from one HDMI
20:02
yanez
well, iwould't buy an expansive audio device now, if I can add the audio module when I upgrade to gamma
20:02
seku
surami, thats what se6astian has postulated, yes
20:02
seku
yanez, as Even said before, a Tascam 60 would be damn fine for starters
20:03
surami
then we need a "frame grabber" what converts that data into DNG somehow?
20:03
seku
surami, that conversion would be done at home on your desktop PC.
20:03
seku
converting the datastream into DNG, CinemaDNG, MLV
20:04
surami
aha
20:04
seku
ML Team has already said they will support MLV format for the axiom. and theres converters for that
20:05
seku
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8447.0
20:05
surami
i know ML
20:05
seku
then you know the MVL workflow :)
20:05
surami
but HDMI to DNG or MLV is how?
20:06
yanez
I was thinking about a Zoom H4n.
20:06
seku
there will be a converter... either by axiom, ML or joint effort
20:07
yanez
I go, bye to everybody
20:07
surami
i see
20:07
surami
bye
20:07
seku
cya
20:07
yanez
left the channel
20:07
seku
ah too bad, i tried to find a good timecode explanation for yanez
20:08
regmac
Gah! OSX Lion thinks all my old video files from a PowerPC mac (CInestream) are Unix Executable files and nothign will open them!
20:08
regmac
Sorry, had to yell.
20:09
seku
i get the feeling :)
20:13
se6astian
campaign details and analysis published: https://apertus.org/crowdfunding-campaign-details-analysis-article-2014
20:13
seku
thanks seb
20:13
seku
whoa, what a spike
20:14
seku
the ML spike and the RAW recording end spike i suppose :)
20:15
seku
nice post!
20:23
Gegsite
left the channel
20:24
dmjnova
seku: I'd say the ML spike
20:24
dmjnova
and then the end spike
20:25
dmjnova
most campaigns get a spike, but ML and stretch goals multiplied it a lot
20:25
dmjnova
we had a really flat middle
20:34
derWalter
left the channel
20:36
surami
nice to see this kind of succesful campaign, congrats again!
20:37
surami
good night for everyone!
20:37
derWalter
joined the channel
20:38
surami
left the channel
20:43
niemand
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20:44
tyrone_
left the channel
20:51
Gegsite
joined the channel
21:05
Rebelj12a
joined the channel
21:05
Rebelj12a
Aha?
21:05
Rebelj12a
Yeah sorry traveling on the road. Need to verify by sasl somehow when on cell data
21:06
francescoita
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21:06
jucar
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21:08
jucar
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21:12
Rebelj12a
Blast missed the audio discussion train
21:14
RebelMM
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21:14
RebelMM
left the channel
21:15
Rebelj12a
Whoops hah
21:20
Rebelj12a
All this talk makes me wish I jumped on the beta train blast. I'll have to punch a ticket for gamma if there is one.
21:23
Rebelj12a
If I'm looking at this right the gamma has the possibility of being converted to an end style mount with active EF aperture control and built in ND filters since it all comes right off the housing... Hmm
21:24
se6astian
We just reopened the campaign for latecomers: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/axiom-beta-the-first-open-digital-cinema-camera
21:24
seku
whoa, really? xD
21:25
Bertl
and we got a nice slashdot article
21:25
seku
congrats!
21:25
seku
heh, 500. nice, that allows for some spare cash too
21:26
Rebelj12a
Oh god.... *drums nervously* to beta or not to beta.
21:26
seku
you will have to wait till august :)
21:27
seku
but its fun :D
21:27
Rebelj12a
Yeah two weeks blast... Hm hm hmm
21:28
derWalter
left the channel
21:28
Rebelj12a
Congrats on Slashdot. That's awesome
21:28
seku
i should be getting mine in april... funfun
21:28
Bertl
but there might be still somebody selling his "accidential 350 EUR" perk, JFYI
21:29
Bertl
(see comment section)
21:31
seku
partied and slept well, seb and bertl?
21:35
derWalter
joined the channel
21:35
Bertl
unfortunately I had to work today, but I slept well, thanks
21:35
seku
ah, we were both unfortunate then.
21:36
se6astian
worked all day :)
21:39
seku
on the beta? :)
21:41
seku
mh, reminds me i need to download the raw alpha footage and try to have some fun with it. weekend is near
21:42
derWalter
left the channel
21:47
seku
Bertl, im wondering what you are brewing up on the paralella boards :)
21:47
Bertl
coffee
21:48
Bertl
they get quite hot :)
21:48
seku
now THAT is a good answer :D
21:49
Gegsite
left the channel
21:52
Rebelj12a
Haha
21:53
Rebelj12a
Developing a plug and play parallel board module?
21:54
Bertl
no seku was referring to the parallella board
21:54
Rebelj12a
Ahh ok
21:54
Rebelj12a
Oh supercomputing I see, yes I did just google it.
21:55
Bertl
which is a nice combination with an image sensor
21:55
Rebelj12a
Indeed indeed it is.
21:56
Rebelj12a
Wonder if there is a workstation GPU that fits in the size of a module. I don't think there is its a bit big. Most of them anyways
21:57
Rebelj12a
What is the perceived module data transfer rate or is that not even considered yet?
21:58
nn
joined the channel
21:59
nn
changed nick to: Guest7585
22:00
seku
workstation gpu ... module size? nothing comes to mind :(
22:03
Rebelj12a
Yeah me neither. Which is too bad.
22:03
Bertl
Rebelj12a: what is a perceived module data transfer rate? how often your neighbour catches you swapping a module with your other neighbour?
22:04
seku
spent the last hour configuring capture one pro ... am i glad i left adobe
22:04
Rebelj12a
No I mean as in running specs on transfer of data between the gamma for instance and one module. I would assume the further down modules are in the "line" transfer rates would go down.
22:05
seku
smirks
22:05
seku
don-t ask about the gamma yet. the specs for beta are not even defined yet
22:06
Rebelj12a
Capture one is great. Light room I use everyday though just for various things because I'm more familiar with it. I also can't give up my analog and film presets for accurate film color and light response.
22:06
seku
and no, gamma will have a bus system. same shared bandwidth with all modules
22:06
Rebelj12a
Ah ok that's what I was wondering.
22:06
Rebelj12a
I figured it wasn't even being thought about yet which is why I asked with the notation if its even being addressed yet haha
22:07
seku
Rebelj12a, i am torn between dxo and capture one. i love DXO, but capture feels more organic. but somewhat less precise. i love both
22:07
Rebelj12a
Capture is more organic I agree with you there. DXO just seems too precise too mechanical. Its the imperfections that make pictures perfect I think.
22:08
seku
lets say capture one is more a joy to use... but damn, i love that highlight and shadow recovery DXO automatically does
22:09
seku
using capture one spread over 3 screens now.
22:09
seku
i love space
22:09
Rebelj12a
Ahaa nice that's the way to do it.
22:09
se6astian
time for bed
22:10
seku
gnight seb
22:10
se6astian
good night everyone!
22:10
Rebelj12a
Still running off my laptop for now D: it works decent for video since its newer but. Gah it chokes on raw movies. Night!
22:10
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
22:10
Rebelj12a
Plus I have an old old Mac pro screen from back in 2004 still works though.
22:11
seku
old 30 inch Dell here, calibrated to d65 though
22:11
seku
and 2 20inch in portrait mode on the side
22:11
seku
not mine, but same screens > https://static.gearslutz.com/board/imgext.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv339%2FInuyasha32%2FWP_000072.jpg&h=7b5e831a14ed6e49ed0e5f8242385f9c
22:12
seku
funnily enough i have the dustbin and computer in the same spot. glass table tho.
22:12
Rebelj12a
Yeah I have idisplay pro and colorchecker. Been meaning to tweak the settings for now making it accurate is all I need. Let's just say this area doesn't have high media standards
22:13
Rebelj12a
Oh yeah that's nice
22:13
seku
calibrating is incredibly important... colors already, but gray levels even more so
22:13
seku
contrast can be way off
22:14
Rebelj12a
Yep luckily that's tuned in really want a dedicated IPS monitor but eventually
22:14
seku
for critical watching i move to the home theater though. nothing beats seeing stuff on the big screen.
22:14
Rebelj12a
True true
22:14
seku
and it is fun :D
22:15
Rebelj12a
Gotta get that movie experience to truly know how it looks. Want to get the thunderbolt to HDMI black magic adapter for my broadcast monitor. The unfortunate thing about cinema is the cost. D:
22:16
Rebelj12a
Axiom though and Apertus in general. I hope it makes waves. I really do. I'd love a shift in the tech part of the industry.
22:17
seku
actually i am using one of my old pcs in the home theater. runs MPC-BE as video player with madVR as video renderer (incredibly good stuff, upsamples SD stuff through NNEDI ... if you are into avisynth). then straight HDMI to a JVC X30 beamer
22:17
Rebelj12a
It's just so expensive and I think big budget Hollywood is to blame. Although its been around since the beginning.
22:18
Rebelj12a
Oh nice, I'm partial to xbmc, have it installed on my jail broken Apple TV.
22:18
seku
it wont change the industry, i think. but it will give us tinkerers possibilities we havent dreamed of since ML
22:19
seku
i am running xmbc too, but i modified the xml settings file to access my external player
22:19
seku
i am quite partial to madVR :)
22:19
Rebelj12a
Indeed MLs code is beyond me. Firmware stuff I haven't quite figured out yet. The whole relation between software and hardware. I'll get there though.
22:20
Rebelj12a
Yeah but even ML is limited by canon hardware. They've been trying to solve the CF card bottleneck since its inception.
22:20
Rebelj12a
Well at least RAWs inception
22:21
seku
and they allowed me to record around 7 terabytes of great video that way.
22:21
seku
(well , great to me)
22:21
Rebelj12a
Haha hey beauty is in the eye of the beholder
22:22
seku
lets say incredibly great compared to the h.264 output
22:22
aombk2
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22:22
seku
hi aombk :)
22:22
Rebelj12a
Oh yeah.
22:23
seku
make no mistake, i have a very shallow grasp on how ML does stuff. i would be incapable of writing a single simple function though.
22:24
Rebelj12a
I've got some files and research to send your guy's way. I mean I'm just a quick and dirty fixer/hacker based on experience but maybe it will help.
22:24
Rebelj12a
Yeah ML is, well based on their limitations they have done so much.
22:24
Rebelj12a
Do you guys use 3d printing?
22:25
seku
unbelievably so
22:25
Rebelj12a
Or will you be?
22:25
aombk
left the channel
22:28
seku
i guess they are evaluating all those options right now
22:30
Rebelj12a
Ah ok awesome for quick prototyping its the way to go.
22:30
Rebelj12a
In any case be back in a bit, had a quick emergency at home heading to the office.
22:44
Rebelj12a
left the channel
22:47
wescotte
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22:51
g3gg0
left the channel
23:03
Rebelj12a
joined the channel
23:03
Rebelj12a
Aha
23:04
seku
mh?
23:04
Rebelj12a
Back at the office finally. Plus added #apertus to colloquay
23:05
Rebelj12a
And now paperwork and prep for this weekend fun :b
23:05
seku
i like using bitlbee öD
23:06
seku
and SSHing into it xD
23:06
seku
but right now im lazy and just use hexchat
23:08
Even
left the channel
23:09
Rebelj12a
bitbee? hmm never heard of it. Colloquay is convenient. Well convenient in at least it runs on mac.
23:10
seku
bitlbee is kinda like a centralizer for all chatting. and it exposes it via an irc server. be it facebook, irc, skype
23:11
Rebelj12a
Oh like Adium?
23:11
seku
usually i chat to my facebook people via my IRC client. which usually is weechat
23:11
seku
different than adium. adium centralises, but doesnt do IRC
23:12
Rebelj12a
ah ok
23:12
seku
in bitlbee you join your own local facebook channel for example
23:12
seku
its neat :)
23:13
Rebelj12a
interesting
23:14
Rebelj12a
Although i cant say there would be alot to talk about locally here :\
23:17
seku
your choice :)
23:17
Rebelj12a
Yeah well i cant say im exactly in the cradle of civilization. Ill have to install it on my linux netbook of doom.
23:18
seku
by local i meant that your computer creates an irc server that lets you PM facebook or skype contacsts like you can PM people in an irc channel
23:18
Rebelj12a
oh really? Thats really interesting.
23:18
Rebelj12a
No need to port forward through isp and all that?
23:23
seku
nah.
23:24
seku
unless you want to connect remotely
23:24
Rebelj12a
hm interesting
23:24
Rebelj12a
Oooh nikon posted a video of a stripped away lens and the mechanisms inside. Fascinatingâ¦
23:30
Rebelj12a
AHA what I needed to know, lens coatings sweet!
23:34
Rebelj12a
the music leaves much to be desired though.
23:36
Rebelj12a
One step closer to fabricating an anamorphic lens. but thats neither here nor there. Interesting decision to open up continued crowdfundingâ¦
23:37
Rebelj12a
Oh sorry apparantly those were private messages, i dont use irc that often so.
23:37
seku
youll get used to it :)
23:43
Guest7585
left the channel
23:54
Rebelj12a
Oh there are United States Team Project members cool.
23:57
Rebelj12a
You guys are all over, how do you keep track of the project O.O