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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2014/05/08

Timezone: UTC


00:07
Topic
apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | Currently Hot: Axiom Alpha Development http://axiom.apertus.org/ | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
00:07
se6astian
has set the topic
00:27
jucar
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gcolburn
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gcolburn
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04:25
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
07:13
se6astian
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07:15
se6astian
good morning
11:34
Bertl
morning folks!
12:53
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
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17:05
Bertl
back now ...
17:27
intracube
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19:08
intracube
hello :)
19:08
Bertl
hey :)
19:08
intracube
wow, that was quick :P
19:08
Bertl
I'm a bot.
19:08
intracube
heh
19:09
Bertl
do you want to take a touring test?
19:09
Bertl
-o
19:09
intracube
I think *I'd* fail a touring test right now ;)
19:10
intracube
*Turing
19:10
intracube
I've just been catching up on your project and the moving image samples post - awesome results!
19:11
Bertl
that's glad you like them
19:11
intracube
in the PLR demo vid, the moire patterns on the curtains disappear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUaHXvX-BIc
19:12
Bertl
I think they just get too small to be visible
19:13
intracube
is this just the low contrast + YT compression
19:13
intracube
ah
19:13
Bertl
there is a lot of stuff going on between the actual image and what you see
19:14
Bertl
i.e. the HDMI encoder, the recording, the compression/codec
19:14
intracube
Bertl: right
19:17
intracube
I wonder if the PLR footage is converted back to linear, the aliasing would reappear
19:19
Bertl
probably but not that much
19:19
intracube
Bertl: is there a HQ downloadable video of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmdEW5MxGN0
19:19
Bertl
aliasing is the result of diffraction and non uniform recording
19:19
intracube
or maybe some still caps?
19:20
Bertl
maybe, you have to check with Sebastian when he is back (or via email)
19:20
intracube
yup, ok
19:21
intracube
Bertl: also the optical lowpass filter
19:22
intracube
does the alpha sensor have one as standard?
19:22
Bertl
not that I would know
19:23
Bertl
i.e. there might be some 'magic' incorporated into the micro lens system, but I doubt it
19:24
intracube
ah, no optical LPF would likely be the cause of the moire
19:24
intracube
or at least a significant part of it
19:26
Bertl
yes, aliasing is always a problem with cameras
19:33
Bertl
so, what's your opinion on beta? if I may ask?
19:45
Bertl
none? :)
19:46
intracube
Bertl: the feature list is pretty ambitious
19:46
Bertl
okay, so, will you buy one?
19:46
intracube
a couple of the features; remote control from smartphone/tablets
19:47
intracube
and accelerometer features seem rather niche
19:47
intracube
Bertl: I'm not sure my bank balance would go that far :/
19:47
intracube
but I wouldn't rule it out
19:48
Bertl
okay, so it looks nice, but it isn't something you would spend your money on
19:49
Bertl
did you spend money on cameras before? (just curious, not judging or so, and just let me know if you don't want to answer)
19:50
intracube
I've only just read up about the beta! still a fair amount of unknowns :)
19:50
intracube
the issue with this end of the market is the camera is only one small part of the total cost
19:50
Bertl
so you want to know more about it then? if so, just ask, we'll try to answer
19:52
intracube
there would be no onboard consumer level (AVCHD) recording?
19:53
intracube
so an HDMI recorder would be necessary. and I've just read up about the compatibility issues with some of these devices :)
19:53
Bertl
correct, the main reason for that is that we do not have the bandwidth or interfaces (atm) for this on the microzed
19:54
Bertl
i.e. you can of course record to SD card, but you know that the speed is very limited even for high end cards
19:54
Bertl
so no chance to record raw data, even for 1080p on that
19:55
Bertl
there will be a flexible I/O module, and we will start with HDMI on that one, but it might be an option for some kind of SATA or SSD interface lateron, although I doubt that we will be able to record full raw over that
19:56
Bertl
the compatibility issues are something which can be solved via software
19:57
Bertl
i.e. of course, it's not easy to figure out what a proprietary recorder from big company XY actually means if it says 'no signal' :)
19:57
intracube
in many cases HDMI devices recording direct to prores is much more practical
19:58
intracube
recording uncompressed to HDD would require massive amounts of storage/processing
19:58
intracube
(obviously) :)
19:58
intracube
Bertl: any idea how long you plan to make the beta available for?
19:58
Bertl
@prores, I'm pretty sure that there is no open/free encoder available
19:59
intracube
I thought ffmbc did it?
19:59
Bertl
I don't think that we will explicitely stop the 'beta' at any point ... would be hard to stop open hardware anyway
20:00
intracube
tho there may well be prores licensing issues that have been ignored there...
20:00
Bertl
not to speak of potential performance issues
20:00
Bertl
but the good news is, you can do that on your axiom beta :)
20:02
intracube
and if I was voting for a particular sensor, it'd be the cmv12000
20:02
Bertl
any particular reason why?
20:03
intracube
the size (depth of field, greater compatibility with SLR lenses) and frame rate (even if 300fps is only achieved after the beta) is more than worth the price increase
20:05
Bertl
so you would feel comfortable paying about 1500 bucks for the sensor alone?
20:07
intracube
apart from lenses, it's one of the most important components
20:08
intracube
£880 for the cmv12000 vs £320 for the cmv8000 isn't that much
20:09
intracube
you'd pay the difference for a decent lens
20:09
Bertl
and the kodak?
20:09
Bertl
I mean, except for the frame rate, it seems to be almost compareable to the cmv12k
20:09
Bertl
at least from the technical details available
20:10
Bertl
for roughly half the price
20:10
intracube
I haven't seen the spec for the kodak
20:10
intracube
oh, that's the KAC12040
20:11
Bertl
yep
20:12
intracube
4/3 is that much more of a crop factor over s35 (DX format)
20:12
intracube
would need to do some tests and get a feel for how much field of view is lost
20:13
intracube
are there any low light sensitivity comparisons for these sensors?
20:15
Bertl
image area: 22.5x16.9 vs 18.8x14.1
20:16
intracube
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Sensor_sizes_overlaid.svg/600px-Sensor_sizes_overlaid.svg.png
20:19
intracube
a fairly significant crop over aps-c/DX/s35
20:21
Bertl
okay, so that's important for you and worth the money
20:23
intracube
maybe not by itself, but with the possibility of 300fps@10bit for the 12000
20:23
intracube
but then then any recording method for 300fps sounds... expensive :)
20:24
Bertl
150 FPS with the current V1, in theory 300FPS with the v2 chip
20:25
intracube
would this be dumped raw to HDD then debayered later?
20:26
Bertl
I don't think it would help to debayer before writing the data unless compression needs that, so yes, raw to HDD and debayer later
20:29
intracube
but does that mean the whole sensor 4096 x 3072 @ 10bpp (padded to 16bit?) x 300fps
20:33
intracube
anyways, I need food
20:33
intracube
thanks for the chat Bertl :)
20:36
Bertl
yes, typically raw will record the full pixel size, and often unpacked, althouth 10/16 would be extreme
20:37
Bertl
so packing the data into blocks of 80 bits would be preferable
20:37
intracube
I guess maybe the data could be truncated to 8bit at hardware level before dumping to HDD?
20:39
intracube
and possibly the central 2k area (windowed mode) could be chosen to cut down data requirements
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