00:07 | Topic | apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | Currently Hot: Axiom Alpha Development http://axiom.apertus.org/ | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
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00:07 | se6astian | has set the topic | |
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04:25 | Bertl | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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07:15 | se6astian | good morning
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11:34 | Bertl | morning folks!
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12:53 | Bertl | off for now ... bbl
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17:05 | Bertl | back now ...
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19:08 | intracube | hello :)
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19:08 | Bertl | hey :)
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19:08 | intracube | wow, that was quick :P
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19:08 | Bertl | I'm a bot.
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19:08 | intracube | heh
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19:09 | Bertl | do you want to take a touring test?
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19:09 | Bertl | -o
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19:09 | intracube | I think *I'd* fail a touring test right now ;)
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19:10 | intracube | *Turing
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19:10 | intracube | I've just been catching up on your project and the moving image samples post - awesome results!
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19:11 | Bertl | that's glad you like them
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19:11 | intracube | in the PLR demo vid, the moire patterns on the curtains disappear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUaHXvX-BIc
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19:12 | Bertl | I think they just get too small to be visible
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19:13 | intracube | is this just the low contrast + YT compression
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19:13 | intracube | ah
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19:13 | Bertl | there is a lot of stuff going on between the actual image and what you see
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19:14 | Bertl | i.e. the HDMI encoder, the recording, the compression/codec
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19:14 | intracube | Bertl: right
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19:17 | intracube | I wonder if the PLR footage is converted back to linear, the aliasing would reappear
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19:19 | Bertl | probably but not that much
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19:19 | intracube | Bertl: is there a HQ downloadable video of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmdEW5MxGN0
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19:19 | Bertl | aliasing is the result of diffraction and non uniform recording
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19:19 | intracube | or maybe some still caps?
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19:20 | Bertl | maybe, you have to check with Sebastian when he is back (or via email)
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19:20 | intracube | yup, ok
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19:21 | intracube | Bertl: also the optical lowpass filter
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19:22 | intracube | does the alpha sensor have one as standard?
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19:22 | Bertl | not that I would know
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19:23 | Bertl | i.e. there might be some 'magic' incorporated into the micro lens system, but I doubt it
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19:24 | intracube | ah, no optical LPF would likely be the cause of the moire
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19:24 | intracube | or at least a significant part of it
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19:26 | Bertl | yes, aliasing is always a problem with cameras
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19:33 | Bertl | so, what's your opinion on beta? if I may ask?
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19:45 | Bertl | none? :)
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19:46 | intracube | Bertl: the feature list is pretty ambitious
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19:46 | Bertl | okay, so, will you buy one?
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19:46 | intracube | a couple of the features; remote control from smartphone/tablets
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19:47 | intracube | and accelerometer features seem rather niche
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19:47 | intracube | Bertl: I'm not sure my bank balance would go that far :/
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19:47 | intracube | but I wouldn't rule it out
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19:48 | Bertl | okay, so it looks nice, but it isn't something you would spend your money on
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19:49 | Bertl | did you spend money on cameras before? (just curious, not judging or so, and just let me know if you don't want to answer)
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19:50 | intracube | I've only just read up about the beta! still a fair amount of unknowns :)
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19:50 | intracube | the issue with this end of the market is the camera is only one small part of the total cost
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19:50 | Bertl | so you want to know more about it then? if so, just ask, we'll try to answer
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19:52 | intracube | there would be no onboard consumer level (AVCHD) recording?
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19:53 | intracube | so an HDMI recorder would be necessary. and I've just read up about the compatibility issues with some of these devices :)
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19:53 | Bertl | correct, the main reason for that is that we do not have the bandwidth or interfaces (atm) for this on the microzed
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19:54 | Bertl | i.e. you can of course record to SD card, but you know that the speed is very limited even for high end cards
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19:54 | Bertl | so no chance to record raw data, even for 1080p on that
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19:55 | Bertl | there will be a flexible I/O module, and we will start with HDMI on that one, but it might be an option for some kind of SATA or SSD interface lateron, although I doubt that we will be able to record full raw over that
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19:56 | Bertl | the compatibility issues are something which can be solved via software
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19:57 | Bertl | i.e. of course, it's not easy to figure out what a proprietary recorder from big company XY actually means if it says 'no signal' :)
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19:57 | intracube | in many cases HDMI devices recording direct to prores is much more practical
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19:58 | intracube | recording uncompressed to HDD would require massive amounts of storage/processing
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19:58 | intracube | (obviously) :)
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19:58 | intracube | Bertl: any idea how long you plan to make the beta available for?
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19:58 | Bertl | @prores, I'm pretty sure that there is no open/free encoder available
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19:59 | intracube | I thought ffmbc did it?
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19:59 | Bertl | I don't think that we will explicitely stop the 'beta' at any point ... would be hard to stop open hardware anyway
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20:00 | intracube | tho there may well be prores licensing issues that have been ignored there...
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20:00 | Bertl | not to speak of potential performance issues
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20:00 | Bertl | but the good news is, you can do that on your axiom beta :)
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20:02 | intracube | and if I was voting for a particular sensor, it'd be the cmv12000
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20:02 | Bertl | any particular reason why?
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20:03 | intracube | the size (depth of field, greater compatibility with SLR lenses) and frame rate (even if 300fps is only achieved after the beta) is more than worth the price increase
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20:05 | Bertl | so you would feel comfortable paying about 1500 bucks for the sensor alone?
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20:07 | intracube | apart from lenses, it's one of the most important components
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20:08 | intracube | £880 for the cmv12000 vs £320 for the cmv8000 isn't that much
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20:09 | intracube | you'd pay the difference for a decent lens
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20:09 | Bertl | and the kodak?
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20:09 | Bertl | I mean, except for the frame rate, it seems to be almost compareable to the cmv12k
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20:09 | Bertl | at least from the technical details available
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20:10 | Bertl | for roughly half the price
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20:10 | intracube | I haven't seen the spec for the kodak
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20:10 | intracube | oh, that's the KAC12040
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20:11 | Bertl | yep
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20:12 | intracube | 4/3 is that much more of a crop factor over s35 (DX format)
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20:12 | intracube | would need to do some tests and get a feel for how much field of view is lost
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20:13 | intracube | are there any low light sensitivity comparisons for these sensors?
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20:15 | Bertl | image area: 22.5x16.9 vs 18.8x14.1
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20:16 | intracube | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Sensor_sizes_overlaid.svg/600px-Sensor_sizes_overlaid.svg.png
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20:19 | intracube | a fairly significant crop over aps-c/DX/s35
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20:21 | Bertl | okay, so that's important for you and worth the money
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20:23 | intracube | maybe not by itself, but with the possibility of 300fps@10bit for the 12000
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20:23 | intracube | but then then any recording method for 300fps sounds... expensive :)
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20:24 | Bertl | 150 FPS with the current V1, in theory 300FPS with the v2 chip
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20:25 | intracube | would this be dumped raw to HDD then debayered later?
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20:26 | Bertl | I don't think it would help to debayer before writing the data unless compression needs that, so yes, raw to HDD and debayer later
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20:29 | intracube | but does that mean the whole sensor 4096 x 3072 @ 10bpp (padded to 16bit?) x 300fps
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20:33 | intracube | anyways, I need food
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20:33 | intracube | thanks for the chat Bertl :)
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20:36 | Bertl | yes, typically raw will record the full pixel size, and often unpacked, althouth 10/16 would be extreme
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20:37 | Bertl | so packing the data into blocks of 80 bits would be preferable
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20:37 | intracube | I guess maybe the data could be truncated to 8bit at hardware level before dumping to HDD?
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20:39 | intracube | and possibly the central 2k area (windowed mode) could be chosen to cut down data requirements
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