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03:56 | Bertl_oO | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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07:55 | LordVan | morning
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10:25 | Bertl | morning folks!
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12:02 | Bertl | off for now ... bbs
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15:27 | se6astian | good evening
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16:13 | Spirit532 | Apertus might be interested in Alexima's latest sensor - LUX160
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16:13 | Spirit532 | 16MP @ 330fps, 4K @ 500fps
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16:14 | Spirit532 | No NDA as far as I'm aware, but no public quotes.
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16:25 | Bertl_oO | it would be great if you could get/link the datasheet then
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16:25 | Bertl_oO | (so we can check if it would work on the Beta)
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16:34 | se6astian | good find, I will contact them
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17:08 | Spirit532 | Bertl_oO, datasheets aren't public, gotta email them
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17:09 | Spirit532 | it probably can work on the Beta, but not anywhere near the full speed
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17:59 | davidak | good evening everyone
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18:00 | intracube | hi
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18:00 | intracube | meeting is imminent? :)
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18:00 | se6astian | indeed
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18:00 | davidak | yes
| 18:01 | intracube | pours a coffee
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18:01 | se6astian | lets go through the flyer text first
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18:02 | se6astian | at the end of the google doc
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18:02 | intracube | ok
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18:02 | se6astian | "Designed by a worldwide community of film-makers, all device schematics have been made publicly available in conjunction with the FOSS/OH ethos."
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18:02 | se6astian | while I think its good to have the term "filmmakers" in there somewhere
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18:02 | se6astian | here I think its missguiding/wrong
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18:03 | davidak | does a cinema camera buyer know what a "FOSS/OH ethos" is?
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18:04 | se6astian | probably not
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18:04 | se6astian | lets phrase that out as well
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18:04 | davidak | also you are right, we are not only filmmakers
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18:04 | intracube | se6astian: "worldwide community of camera users and specialists"
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18:04 | intracube | ?
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18:05 | se6astian | well it sounds strange that "users" created something
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18:05 | davidak | yes
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18:06 | intracube | I thought about 'enthusiasts', but that sounds too amateur
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18:06 | se6astian | "Designed by a worldwide community of experts from different kinds of professions"
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18:06 | se6astian | maybe?
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18:06 | intracube | it doesn't seem so strange that users are part of the design process. that's a defining part of Open Src
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18:06 | davidak | what professions?
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18:06 | davidak | ;)
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18:07 | intracube | "different kinds of professions" - sounds a bit wordy/vague
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18:07 | intracube | and users are getting involved in the design process (feedback etc)
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18:08 | davidak | users and makers?
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18:08 | intracube | so "camera users and specialists" seems quite accurate
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18:08 | intracube | users and designers?
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18:08 | davidak | whould you consider calling yourself specialist se6astian?
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18:09 | davidak | intracube: designer sound like graphic
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18:09 | se6astian | well everyone is special is his own kind of way :D
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18:09 | davidak | :D
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18:09 | se6astian | "experts"?
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18:09 | intracube | davidak: hm, yeah I guess
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18:10 | intracube | experts... or specialists :)
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18:10 | intracube | and it seems like there should be at least one extra comma in the first sentence
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18:10 | intracube | there isn't much of a natural pause considering the number of words
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18:11 | se6astian | feel free to add it :)
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18:11 | davidak | "camera entusiasts and makers"?
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18:11 | se6astian | "Designed by a worldwide community of film-makers, camera experts and technical specialists" ?
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18:11 | se6astian | "makers" is good
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18:12 | davidak | a normal videographer who goes to a store and picks one camera wouldn't consider the axiom beta
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18:12 | se6astian | but we have the makers in "film-makers" already
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18:13 | davidak | do we have much people with a free software / open hardware / free culture background?
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18:13 | intracube | I think the first couple of sentences flows better
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18:13 | davidak | i would consider myself one :)
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18:14 | se6astian | we hand out such flyers at maker faires or linux events
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18:14 | intracube | I think the majority of the people involved have a background in open src
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18:14 | se6astian | so we can assume that many people reading this will be FOSS aware
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18:14 | davidak | "Designed by a worldwide community of film-makers, camera experts and open source entusiasts"?
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18:14 | intracube | (it'd be interesting to know how many people in IRC and elsewhere use linux)
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18:14 | se6astian | sounds good
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18:14 | intracube | I'm guessing it's significant
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18:14 | davidak | that would include Linux people and programmers
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18:15 | se6astian | changed
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18:15 | intracube | although that's now several mentions of open source
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18:15 | intracube | repetition?
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18:15 | davidak | intracube: just throw in a poll later
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18:15 | intracube | yep
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18:16 | se6astian | "All device schematics have been made publicly available in conjunction with the Free Open Source Software/Open Hardware ethos. " is just to explain what open source means
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18:16 | se6astian | we mention open source two times before that
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18:16 | se6astian | we need to also tender this flyer to be for non OS aware people....
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18:16 | davidak | 1. it is open source 2. becouse that is important to US
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18:16 | davidak | so it fits
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18:17 | se6astian | "All device schematics and software source codes have been made publicly available." remove: "in conjunction with the Free Open Source Software/Open Hardware ethos." ?
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18:18 | intracube | se6astian: yep, that would be better imo
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18:18 | davidak | yes
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18:18 | davidak | it is too long
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18:18 | se6astian | do you say "software source codes" ?
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18:18 | se6astian | or "software source code" ?
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18:18 | intracube | software source code
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18:18 | davidak | code
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18:19 | se6astian | fixed
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18:19 | se6astian | thanks
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18:19 | se6astian | is the "sustainable" discussion resolved?
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18:19 | se6astian | or are there any concerns about the word still?
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18:20 | intracube | it still feels like it's to do with the environment, where I suspect the main meaning here is upgradable
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18:20 | davidak | i think it was resolved
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18:21 | se6astian | its good to also include a bit of the environmental aspect
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18:21 | se6astian | upgrade instead of replace also means less waste, etc.
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18:21 | davidak | yes, absolutely
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18:22 | se6astian | of course we cant claim we will save the planet with a few cameras but its the message that counts
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18:22 | davidak | it is a small step
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18:22 | davidak | in the right direction
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18:23 | se6astian | ok next point, the "photographic situation" ?
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18:23 | se6astian | how can we word that to also include videographers, vision people?
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18:24 | davidak | with "photographic" i associate a photo and not moving images
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18:24 | se6astian | agreed
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18:24 | intracube | "master any project or situation"
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18:24 | intracube | ?
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18:24 | davidak | yes
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18:24 | se6astian | right
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18:24 | davidak | sounds good
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18:24 | davidak | "provides the building blocks"
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18:25 | davidak | are it multiple blocks?
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18:25 | davidak | or one device?
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18:25 | intracube | it's going to be a modular design
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18:25 | se6astian | well the modules are each blocks to put together
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18:25 | intracube | the Gamma, at least
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18:25 | se6astian | the beta as well
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18:25 | davidak | ok
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18:26 | intracube | oh, I thought the Beta was a closed unit
| 18:26 | intracube | hasn't kept up to date with developments :)
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18:26 | intracube | is there going to be an image nearby that shows the modular aspect of the camera?
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18:27 | davidak | https://www.apertus.org/axiom-beta-status
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18:27 | davidak | here are the modules that are currently in development at the bottom
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18:27 | davidak | and in this concept you see a slot https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/axiom-beta-concept-enlosure-03.png
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18:28 | intracube | is that a render or a photoshop/gimp job?
| 18:28 | intracube | gets side-tracked
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18:28 | davidak | 3D rendering i think
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18:29 | intracube | looks really good
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18:29 | davidak | the lens and sockets might be a photograph
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18:29 | se6astian | its actually a photoshop drawing :)
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18:30 | davidak | i hope it get's thinner
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18:30 | intracube | nice
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18:30 | intracube | I always liked this concept render: https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/project/AXIOM_GAMMA-website-banner-01.jpg
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18:30 | intracube | shows of the modularity well
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18:30 | se6astian | agreed
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18:30 | davidak | yes, that looks good and very professional
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18:30 | se6astian | next point: Super35/APS-C format
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18:30 | se6astian | any objections if we keep both?
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18:31 | intracube | might be worth putting the latter in brackets?
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18:31 | davidak | i think we can attract most attention if we have both
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18:31 | se6astian | fine for me
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18:31 | intracube | / might mean 'or'
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18:31 | davidak | so photo and video people recognize it
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18:31 | intracube | but they're almost exactly the same format
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18:32 | intracube | at least the width dimension
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18:32 | intracube | actually, if APS-C is 3:2, it is a bit different
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18:32 | davidak | Super35 (APS-C)
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18:32 | intracube | maybe better left as is
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18:32 | intracube | doesn't matter one way or the other, imo
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18:33 | se6astian | right, we are through the text!
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18:33 | intracube | although Super35 would be the more important, since APS-C is based in still photo land
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18:33 | intracube | yep :)
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18:34 | davidak | so Super35 (APS-C) would fit
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18:34 | intracube | yep
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18:35 | se6astian | changed
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18:35 | se6astian | now we have the logos
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18:35 | intracube | although Super35 has a slightly greater height than APS-C
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18:36 | se6astian | we need to differenciate those logos that have added text
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18:36 | se6astian | and the logos without text
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18:36 | intracube | differentiate?
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18:36 | se6astian | yes ;)
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18:37 | intracube | do you mean spacing/layout or colour?
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18:37 | se6astian | yes
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18:37 | se6astian | I was thinking of making the logos plus text into 3 coloumns
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18:37 | intracube | or the logos by themselves could be horizontal and centred?
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18:37 | se6astian | but I fear it will look strange that we have so much text for the first item in the first coloumn
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18:37 | se6astian | and much less in the others
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18:38 | intracube | and the logos + text could be as they are now (stacked), but also centreed?
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18:38 | se6astian | let me check if we can do live layout collaboration somewhere like draw.io
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18:38 | intracube | are there any better CMV12000, FPGA, ARM images? they're not that consistent in style right now
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18:39 | davidak | we will create icons like that
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18:39 | davidak | it was only to test how it looks
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18:39 | intracube | ah ok
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18:40 | davidak | to have icons for that informations in general
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18:40 | davidak | first this technical details was also in the text
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18:40 | davidak | but that would be way too much information
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18:42 | intracube | currently looks superfluous. 'sensor modules in development' would mean the same
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18:42 | intracube | remove?
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18:42 | se6astian | does this work: https://sketchboard.me/zAkPzBjQfPyn#/ ?
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18:43 | intracube | I'll need to enable JavaScript
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18:43 | intracube | or just switch to another browser
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18:43 | intracube | yep. working here
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18:44 | se6astian | looks good
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18:44 | se6astian | its really realtime
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18:44 | se6astian | I see every stroke being drawn
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18:45 | xfxf | left the channel | |
18:45 | davidak | everyone is going crazy :D
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18:46 | intracube | I can't figure out how to delete
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18:46 | davidak | you have to select every line
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18:46 | davidak | and press Entf.
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18:46 | davidak | or Del.
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18:46 | davidak | i don't know how select multiple elements
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18:47 | BAndiT1983 | shift and drag for box selection
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18:47 | davidak | ah, thanks
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18:48 | intracube | it also matters what draw mode you're in
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18:48 | intracube | I couldn't select multiple elements when drawing primitive shapes
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18:49 | intracube | is there enough room to put all the icon + text elements horizontally?
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18:50 | se6astian | its a challenge
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18:50 | se6astian | both vertical and horizontally
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18:51 | BAndiT1983 | do you want it to be static or something like a flowpanel / carousel with slight rotation?
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18:53 | davidak | i would use static
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18:53 | davidak | but i'm not a designer
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18:54 | se6astian | what does a flowplanel look like?
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18:54 | BAndiT1983 | i have to look up an example
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18:55 | davidak | do we have a newer PCB stack image?
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18:55 | se6astian | maybe like this now?
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18:55 | BAndiT1983 | something like that, but much less round -> http://www.picz.ge/img/s1/1010/31/6/6e8a7852abce.jpg
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18:56 | davidak | we don't have hundesds of icons
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18:56 | BAndiT1983 | http://bashooka.com/coding/responsive-jquery-carousel-plugins/
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18:56 | BAndiT1983 | it's not about amount, they can just oscillate slightly, if there is less space available
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18:57 | se6astian | BAndiT1983: its a print flyer :)
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18:57 | davidak | :D
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18:57 | BAndiT1983 | ah, :D you see i missed the beginning
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18:57 | se6astian | :)
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18:57 | Bertl_oO | changed nick to: Bertl
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18:57 | BAndiT1983 | too much UI development at work ;)
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18:57 | Bertl | *phew* finally here ...
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18:58 | davidak | hi Bertl, we are still discussing the Flyer
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18:58 | Bertl | yeah, no problem ...
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19:00 | Bertl | what's the 'current' text?
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19:00 | davidak | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TPMb4SYdlWopCSHlJm4GcKz_RScZ5h3annAwawtn8vI/edit
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19:00 | se6astian | added layout draft
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19:01 | se6astian | lets see what ray can come up with this
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19:01 | se6astian | but I think the text is really good now
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19:01 | davidak | yes, i also really like it
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19:01 | Bertl | is my input appreciated? :)
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19:01 | davidak | always :)
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19:02 | Bertl | I'm missing the 'never obsolete' part for the hardware
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19:02 | se6astian | had to tune the doc sharing settings
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19:02 | se6astian | once posted here its public....
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19:03 | se6astian | 'never obsolete' added
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19:03 | Bertl | excellent!
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19:03 | davidak | ">Dual ARM Core and Linux inside."
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19:04 | davidak | i think "Dual Core ARM" would be more accurate
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19:04 | Bertl | maybe at the end of the first paragraph something like:
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19:04 | RexOrCine | Present
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19:04 | davidak | since it is 1 processor with 2 cores
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19:04 | Spirit532 | se6astian, when you get a reply from Alexima/Luxima(same founder/employees), please PM me with the prices/whatever they give you for the LUX160
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19:04 | Spirit532 | I might be interested in getting one myself.
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19:04 | Bertl | project or situation and the open interfaces allow to extend those as needed.
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19:05 | Bertl | (or something along the lines of 'extensions are easy to add')
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19:05 | Bertl | maybe extend and complement those
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19:05 | davidak | Bertl: that will make it much longer
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19:06 | Bertl | okay, length is an issue? or do we just want to keep it as short as possible?
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19:06 | BAndiT1983 | it should have 3 to 5 sentences to make the point
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19:06 | BAndiT1983 | otherwise it overloads people with infos
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19:06 | Bertl | well, strictly speaking that would be the same (last) sentence :)
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19:06 | se6astian | "and extendable plug-in interfaces (up to 12 Gbps bandwidth)"
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19:07 | se6astian | just one word added
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19:07 | davidak | good
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19:07 | Bertl | works for me
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19:07 | se6astian | great
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19:08 | comradekingu | I asked for permission to see the draft
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19:08 | davidak | what do you thing about the ARM sentence?
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19:08 | BAndiT1983 | reminds me of intel inside :)
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19:08 | Bertl | yep Dual Core Arm is better
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19:09 | davidak | i changed it
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19:09 | Bertl | the question is, if we should mention the arm separately
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19:09 | intracube | is it worth adding CPU?
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19:09 | Bertl | because it is part of the Xilinx ZYNQ
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19:09 | intracube | I guess that can be inferred from 'dual core'
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19:09 | davidak | the beta is not special because it uses a CPU or ARM, so i think not
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19:10 | Bertl | so personally I'd swap that around a little bit
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19:10 | Bertl | we have other interesting stuff on the Beta
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19:10 | davidak | Linux already tells people if they know Linux they can easily extend it
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19:10 | Bertl | maybe have:
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19:10 | Bertl | (a Zynq Picture) with XIlinx Zynq SoC, Dual Amr Core, ...
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19:11 | Bertl | then mention the Lattice routing fabric and the Microchip PICs
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19:11 | davidak | what :D
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19:11 | Bertl | and finally add a sentence for IMU or so?
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19:12 | davidak | i don't understand anything and i think someone looking for a camera also
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19:12 | se6astian | we are already short on space now...
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19:12 | Bertl | then maybe skip the arm and make it a penguin
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19:12 | Bertl | and just write Dual Core ARM Linux inside
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19:13 | BAndiT1983 | left the channel | |
19:13 | davidak | "Firmware based on GNU/Linux"
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19:13 | davidak | i would like that phrase :)
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19:13 | Bertl | actually Arch/Linux :)
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19:13 | se6astian | tux logo plus "Dual Core ARM Linux inside" should work I think
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19:13 | Bertl | but yes, I agree, GNU/Linux is very Richard!
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19:14 | Bertl | (RMS)
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19:15 | davidak | i have a picture of him on the wall
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19:15 | se6astian | lol
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19:15 | davidak | holding a sign: "With free software you have freedom"
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19:15 | davidak | you may know that
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19:16 | Bertl | yep
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19:17 | se6astian | this http://www.opimedia.be/DS/une/_jpg/Richard-Stallman-on-the-road.jpg
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19:17 | se6astian | ?
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19:17 | davidak | exactly
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19:17 | se6astian | very nice
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19:17 | se6astian | ok can we conclude the flyer for today?
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19:17 | davidak | yes
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19:17 | se6astian | anything left you do not like, would like changed?
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19:18 | se6astian | otherwise we let ray take a go
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19:18 | se6astian | and discuss what he comes up with then
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19:18 | davidak | we made good progress the last days :)
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19:18 | Bertl | the FPGA logo looks ugly
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19:18 | BAndiT1983 | joined the channel | |
19:19 | davidak | Bertl: what would you use?
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19:19 | se6astian | text above icon says "Icons are just drafts for now, should have simplified design that is the same style:"
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19:19 | Bertl | I would probably use the xilinx and the zynq and the lattice logos
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19:19 | intracube | se6astian: the paragraph for the sensor spec is a bit long compared to the other two
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19:20 | se6astian | true
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19:20 | intracube | words like pixel could be removed?
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19:20 | davidak | it's hard to read
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19:21 | intracube | you mean with pixel removed?
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19:21 | davidak | yes
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19:21 | se6astian | removing pixels is fine
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19:21 | se6astian | I turned "fps" into "frames per second"
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19:21 | se6astian | but we can go back to fps
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19:21 | intracube | could bullet points be put between each part of the spec?
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19:21 | se6astian | just not sure if people will understand
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19:22 | intracube | I think anyone looking at this level of camera system will understand fps :)
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19:23 | se6astian | ok
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19:23 | se6astian | google docs has so many symbols
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19:23 | se6astian | bathtub!
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19:23 | intracube | global shutter · 4096 x 3072 · Super35 (APS-C) format · up to 300 fps at 4K · Alternative image sensor modules are in development
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19:24 | intracube | ^ something like that
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19:24 | BAndiT1983 | looks fine with points
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19:24 | davidak | yes
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19:24 | Bertl | last comment to the logo section: I would use the manufacturer logos and drop the names from the text
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19:24 | Bertl | i.e. I would put the MicroZed, Xilinx, Lattice, Microchip and Cmosis logo there
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19:25 | davidak | so have only CMV12000 in the text?
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19:25 | Bertl | and just have the text use the specifica, like Zynq, PIC, CMV12k
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19:26 | se6astian | noted
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19:26 | Bertl | those technically interested will know what it means
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19:26 | BAndiT1983 | is it "real time" or "realtime", google gives many possible cases, also real-time
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19:26 | Bertl | and those not interested might recognise the company logos
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19:26 | davidak | http://www.dict.cc/?s=realtime
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19:26 | davidak | also both
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19:26 | BAndiT1983 | was there, also not conclusive ;)
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19:27 | davidak | i would say realtime
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19:27 | BAndiT1983 | searched for "Internal real time video processing" on google to find similar things
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19:28 | Bertl | okay, move on to the GSoC project brainstorming?
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19:28 | se6astian | comradekingu: stop changing the text completely!
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19:28 | davidak | from the translation, i think "real time" means something else
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19:28 | BAndiT1983 | yes, haven't considiered the translation
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19:28 | Rex0r | joined the channel | |
19:29 | comradekingu | se6astian: i just corrected some errors
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19:29 | comradekingu | Made comments for the ones that were hardcoded into images
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19:29 | intracube | as word pairings become popular, they usually end up joined or hyphenated
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19:29 | comradekingu | You can give suggestion rights if you dont want errors fixed
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19:30 | intracube | so I think realtime or real-time is more common now
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19:31 | comradekingu | se6astian: Try reading that sentence now, it makes no sense
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19:32 | se6astian | you removed half if it
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19:32 | comradekingu | The part i removed did nothing
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19:32 | se6astian | unfortunately revision history is hard to read to revert it....
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19:32 | comradekingu | I could make suggestions
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19:33 | comradekingu | This is the sentence "The worlds first, fully open source and open hardware motion picture camera system. has been devised to be modular and repairable, designed by a worldwide community of film-makers, camera experts and free software enthusiasts."
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19:33 | se6astian | we just concluded the meeting that deals with writing this text
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19:33 | comradekingu | The worlds first comma. provides no info
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19:33 | davidak | we discussed that several time
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19:33 | _florent_ | joined the channel | |
19:34 | Bertl | hey _florent_!
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19:34 | intracube | this was the original first para text:
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19:34 | intracube | "The world’s first, fully open source and open hardware motion picture camera system. Devised to be completely modular and repairable and designed by a worldwide community of film-makers, camera experts and open source enthusiasts. All device schematics and software source code have been made publicly available. Not just a camera, the AXIOM Beta is a constantly evolving, sustainable hardware and software ecosystem. With Interchangeable lens
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19:34 | intracube | mounts (e-mount as standard), swappable image sensors (Full-frame, High Speed, Four Thirds, 2/3", etc.) and plug-in interfaces (up to 12 Gbps bandwidth), the AXIOM Beta provides the building blocks to master any project or situation."
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19:34 | comradekingu | Well, my argument is what it is, not how it came to be that way
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19:35 | intracube | in case it got lost in Google's revision system...
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19:35 | se6astian | thanks intracube
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19:35 | se6astian | replacing
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19:36 | comradekingu | completely, fully, deviced and enthusiasts can be done away with
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19:36 | comradekingu | and world's
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19:36 | se6astian | ok flyer meeting concluded
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19:36 | se6astian | comradekingu: feel free to add comments in the google doc
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19:37 | comradekingu | ok
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19:37 | comradekingu | extenable not a word btw
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19:37 | se6astian | so GSoC is on!
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19:37 | se6astian | we are VERY late
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19:37 | davidak | yay
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19:37 | Spirit532 | though it's not going to be very open if it's still in eagle
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19:37 | intracube | :)
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19:37 | Spirit532 | because autodesk
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19:37 | se6astian | and I have to admit I have doubts if we can still finish everything in the next 22hours
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19:37 | davidak | true
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19:37 | intracube | this was my rough layout idea: http://i.imgur.com/kGVtBkk.png
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19:38 | comradekingu | I am the green snowy pine trees
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19:38 | Bertl | yeah, well, autodesk will help to speed up the kicad transition
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19:38 | se6astian | but lets try!
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19:38 | BAndiT1983 | what the hell, i have missed the point in time when autodesk bought it
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19:38 | davidak | se6astian: YES
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19:38 | se6astian | so the application text is pretty much finished
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19:39 | Spirit532 | BAndiT1983, it's also subscription only now.
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19:39 | se6astian | the biggest thing google reviews is the idea page
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19:39 | Spirit532 | autodesk killed eagle
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19:39 | davidak | se6astian: i have read it, it's ok
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19:39 | se6astian | just look at KDE: https://community.kde.org/GSoC/2016/Ideas
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19:39 | Spirit532 | it was "an okay" software to use before
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19:39 | Spirit532 | now it's obsolete
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19:39 | BAndiT1983 | i used target3001 before, was never big friend of eagle user experience
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19:39 | Bertl | okay, I've got a list of 17 (seventeen) potential tasks/projects for GSoC
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19:39 | se6astian | great!
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19:40 | se6astian | how to best organize them?
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19:40 | se6astian | google doc?
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19:40 | Bertl | but I would prefer to start with a brainstorming, where everybody says what comes to his/her mind
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19:40 | se6astian | sure
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19:40 | se6astian | I ll collect them in a google doc
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19:40 | se6astian | shoot
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19:40 | davidak | Bertl: how much students do we want
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19:40 | se6astian | I d say 3 max
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19:40 | davidak | and how much tasks do we need so
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19:40 | Bertl | as many as we get and we can handle
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19:40 | se6astian | 6-9 would make sense
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19:40 | se6astian | more = better
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19:41 | Bertl | if we make a list of 20 tasks, I think that is fine as well
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19:41 | BAndiT1983 | which students can apply, just from austria and surrounding or from evrywhere?
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19:41 | se6astian | right
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19:41 | Bertl | it doesn't mean that we have to put them all on GSoC :)
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19:41 | se6astian | worldwide
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19:41 | intracube | changed nick to: intracube_afk
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19:42 | BAndiT1983 | oha, time difference will be interesting thing
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19:42 | se6astian | so I added the 4K HDMI fpga code as idea in the lab workboard already
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19:42 | se6astian | plus a nodejs API
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19:42 | se6astian | for future interactive webinterfaces, etc.
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19:42 | davidak | shouldn't it be a Python API some time ago?
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19:42 | Bertl | isn't nodejs that thing which didn't work?
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19:43 | Bertl | (i.e. didn't want to install/work/etc)
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19:43 | BAndiT1983 | is there already something like a remote app for android?
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19:43 | davidak | yes, i think so
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19:43 | se6astian | hackmd yes
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19:43 | se6astian | but saying it the way you did it its like saying "isnt that the C++ thing that didnt work" :)
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19:43 | Bertl | so I don't think java is a good idea _on_ the camera
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19:43 | BAndiT1983 | nooooooo
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19:43 | davidak | :d
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19:43 | Bertl | it will make the camera die a horrible death :)
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19:43 | se6astian | nodejs is javascript
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19:44 | BAndiT1983 | have to develop in java at work, still happy to be c++ developer at home
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19:44 | davidak | it would need lot's of RAM :D
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19:44 | BAndiT1983 | java is not javascript ;)
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19:44 | Bertl | okay, so brainstorming!!!
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19:44 | se6astian | shoot people!
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19:44 | Bertl | what would you want somebody to develop for the Beta
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19:44 | Spirit532 | nothing containing the word "java" should ever exist on embedded hardware
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19:44 | Spirit532 | ever
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19:44 | Bertl | (software only, unless you can come up with the hardware)
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19:44 | BAndiT1983 | and still android is one of the best selling plattforms :D
| 19:45 | Bertl | agrees with Spirit532
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19:45 | davidak | the remote software
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19:45 | se6astian | define "remote software"
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19:45 | Spirit532 | Qt, maybe
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19:45 | Spirit532 | (if we're talking PC)
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19:45 | davidak | the software running on the remote
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19:45 | Spirit532 | that's still embedded
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19:45 | BAndiT1983 | like the one with which i can control my canon DSLR from my smartphone
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19:45 | BAndiT1983 | you have live preview and can set shutter, exposure etc.
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19:46 | Spirit532 | well, smartphone apps have to be made with their own SDKs
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19:46 | Spirit532 | so that's a given
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19:46 | davidak | yes
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19:46 | se6astian | -) moving the FPN calibration routine plus validation into the camera and all into one script
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19:46 | davidak | but maybe the remote uses the API?
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19:46 | BAndiT1983 | Qt would be not a big problem, and there can be a module for OC for such things like remote control or similar
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19:46 | davidak | so we need that first
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19:47 | Bertl | brainstorming, not arguing or thinking! :)
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19:47 | se6astian | slower than realtime camera internal hdmi overlay text and primitive drawing framework
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19:47 | Spirit532 | the remote could use the same interface as apps
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19:47 | Spirit532 | (minus live view)
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19:47 | Spirit532 | bluetooth perhaps
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19:48 | se6astian | "ESP32 bluetooth communication demo" added
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19:48 | davidak | implement the remote software -> http://files.apertus.org/controller-simulator/
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19:48 | Spirit532 | ESP32 wouldn't be fast enough for live view though, would it?
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19:48 | Spirit532 | davidak, that looks like something I can do in a day
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19:48 | se6astian | collecting ideas from brainstorming here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n7BxN4UFok-JP47zsJ2w6oAErJ1aFpHtssCNx4dB9P0/edit
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19:49 | BAndiT1983 | does Beta has wifi or just BT?
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19:49 | se6astian | davidak: no hardware yet
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19:49 | se6astian | wifi and bt
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19:49 | davidak | ok
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19:49 | BAndiT1983 | canon uses wifi for live preview
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19:49 | BAndiT1983 | it could be useful for static recording, when you don't need very fast preview
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19:49 | BAndiT1983 | there is also not much delay, as i can tell from my experience
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19:49 | Bertl | BAndiT1983: the Beta itself doesn't have either, but we have an ESP32 shield in the works which does both and we can use USB dongles for Wifi/BT
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19:49 | se6astian | make that MJPEG encoder fpga code
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19:51 | se6astian | added
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19:51 | Bertl | okay, unfortunately not much storming here ... so let's discuss the list I madeL
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19:51 | Spirit532 | I've got some debayering code
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19:51 | BAndiT1983 | Sebastian, what about the new algorithm from Stephan?
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19:52 | Spirit532 | it's not very good though
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19:52 | Spirit532 | just nearest neighbor
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19:52 | BAndiT1983 | i've added simple linear debayering and was on to adding SHOODAK, but priorities changed half a year ago
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19:52 | BAndiT1983 | but nearest is also helpful for draft preview
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19:52 | Spirit532 | I don't really contribute to hw projects I don't own
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19:53 | Spirit532 | and I'd rather drop $5k on a good lathe/mill combo right now
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19:53 | se6astian | herbert can we control the fan speed on the microzed yet in software?
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19:53 | davidak | maybe there is already good open source code out there somewhere?
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19:53 | xfxf | joined the channel | |
19:53 | Bertl | the fan is on a port pin, so PWM could be implemented
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19:54 | Bertl | but we don't have an implementation yet
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19:54 | davidak | some python dev to work on Elmyra
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19:54 | Bertl | it is controlled by one of the routing fabrics
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19:55 | davidak | active lens mount for aperture control
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19:55 | davidak | and focus
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19:55 | davidak | autofocus
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19:56 | se6astian | is there
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19:56 | se6astian | Lens Control (various Protocols: Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc.)
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19:56 | BAndiT1983 | there are some command-line tools in the repo, should the get some UI?
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19:56 | BAndiT1983 | *they
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19:56 | se6astian | good idea
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19:57 | Bertl | maybe we should simply do a GET/POST interface for camera control?
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19:57 | comradekingu | Made a comment with a suggestion for the text
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19:57 | Bertl | with a well defined API
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19:57 | BAndiT1983 | REST API?
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19:57 | se6astian | added
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19:57 | davidak | Bertl: would that be called REST-API?
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19:58 | Bertl | yep, we could do REST
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19:58 | Bertl | then all kind of client side apps can use that
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19:59 | davidak | should that api be high performance and written in native language like C++, Go or Rust?
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19:59 | Bertl | regardless of what underlying language or presentation
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19:59 | davidak | so a picture is taken immediately when you hit the trigger?
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19:59 | Bertl | my preference would actually be C
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19:59 | BAndiT1983 | yeah, C on the embedded side for performance
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19:59 | davidak | C has some problems you see in current OSS like openssl
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20:00 | BAndiT1983 | it has to be evaluated how much performance C++ consumes on chip
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20:01 | Bertl | davidak: what problems do you expect for a REST api?
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20:01 | BAndiT1983 | https://github.com/babelouest/ulfius
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20:01 | davidak | someone hacks your camera because of buffer overflows and stuff
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20:02 | davidak | not sure if that is important here
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20:02 | Bertl | well, they don't need a buffer overflow to hack it? :)
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20:02 | BAndiT1983 | you should only allow specific things, to overcome that problems or even prevent them
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20:02 | alexML_ | I like the idea of Rust, just that it doesn't seem the easiest thing to learn
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20:02 | BAndiT1983 | hack an open-source camera :D this has funny side to it
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20:04 | se6astian | enough brainstorming?
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20:04 | BAndiT1983 | the list is long enough, i think
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20:04 | Bertl | yeah, I don't have a problem with Rust either ... I'm just worried that we will not find a Rust hacker :)
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20:04 | davidak | or someone to maintain it later
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20:04 | BAndiT1983 | we should use languages which have established over years
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20:05 | niemand | joined the channel | |
20:05 | niemand | left the channel | |
20:05 | niemand | joined the channel | |
20:06 | se6astian | so now we need to break it down
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20:06 | se6astian | each idea needs a mentor
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20:06 | Bertl | okay, so I propose we create 'new' tasks for each of them in the Lab with a common structure
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20:06 | se6astian | I would do that after we made a selection
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20:06 | Bertl | and incorporate old tasks with similar/related stuff
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20:07 | se6astian | each idea for google needs
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20:07 | Bertl | well, we don't want to lose any of those ideas, no?
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20:07 | se6astian | for ourselves, sure
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20:07 | Bertl | we can still cherry pick those for GSoC
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20:07 | se6astian | ok
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20:08 | se6astian | please make a note in the google doc if you can think of mentoring any of these projects
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20:08 | Bertl | alexML_: the problem with overlays is that they come in different flavors
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20:08 | Bertl | zebra or peaking or similar is best done in the FPGA in realtime
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20:09 | Bertl | basically when the data passes by
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20:09 | alexML_ | yes; I meant zebras and peaking are very similar in the backend, so they can be grouped in a single project
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20:10 | Spirit532 | are they though?
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20:10 | Bertl | stuff like frames or grids too, they do not even need input data
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20:10 | Spirit532 | I mean, they're both LPF/HPF
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20:10 | comradekingu | Could add some shadows from the camera onto the backdrop?
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20:10 | Bertl | but user elements, info, graphs, etc should be handled by a framebuffer overlay
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20:10 | niemand | That's music to my ears... :)
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20:13 | se6astian | Andrej are there any other tasks/subprojects for opencine that you can think of?
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20:14 | BAndiT1983 | i also could supervise the REST API
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20:14 | se6astian | great
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20:14 | BAndiT1983 | just don't know at the moment where it should be put, as i haven't looked in the camera code yet
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20:14 | Bertl | a few tasks require that we provide hardware to work on/with
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20:15 | se6astian | BAndiT1983: dont worry about that
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20:15 | Bertl | we should color code them or similar
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20:15 | se6astian | agreed
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20:15 | BAndiT1983 | can it be surpassed by emulation?
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20:16 | Bertl | some parts maybe, others hardly
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20:16 | Bertl | but it shouldn't be a problem to provide the required hardware from our side
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20:16 | comradekingu | Btw, the oshwa cert is no longer self-certification, and it costs money. Im pretty sure they own the blue gear logo and use it for that
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20:16 | BAndiT1983 | depends on the location of the student
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20:17 | BAndiT1983 | or do you want to carry it over to himalayas ;)
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20:17 | davidak | comradekingu: we are officially certified :)
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20:17 | comradekingu | oh ok
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20:17 | davidak | AT01 i think
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20:17 | comradekingu | How about including some test shot imagery, there was a nice video of some trees yesterday, could use a still from that
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20:18 | BAndiT1983 | Sebastian, you can include me for the API tasks, is just software after all
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20:18 | comradekingu | It is a bit "concept art" CGI heavy atm
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20:18 | Spirit532 | I'd love to contribute a lot, but I can't afford a beta right now
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20:19 | Bertl | se6astian: which reminds me that the OSHWA cert logo should be on the flyer as well, probably also OSHpark
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20:19 | Spirit532 | though most of it doesn't require hardware
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20:20 | davidak | Bertl: we have the open source hardware logo, maybe replace that?
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20:20 | davidak | else it would be redundant
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20:20 | Bertl | I would mark the typical FPGA parts separately (not as requires hardware)
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20:20 | se6astian | Bertl: noted
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20:20 | Bertl | because FPGA/HDL designs can and should be tested with simulations
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20:21 | se6astian | davidak: noted
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20:21 | Bertl | of course, the final code will be integrated and tested on real hardware as well
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20:21 | davidak | Bertl: for that you could provide ssh access to betas you have
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20:21 | Bertl | yes, that's the idea
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20:22 | davidak | if some studen't don't needs it all the time
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20:22 | comradekingu | All the logos are for the initiated. It would be good to provide some starter info, cheif among which is the copyleft logo, which is instantly recognisable as not standard copyright
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20:22 | Bertl | we have had a working setup for a remote Beta some time ago
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20:22 | BAndiT1983 | time for jenkins CI i think
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20:22 | Bertl | so that seems to be doable and reasonable
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20:22 | se6astian | Bertl: please mark the tasks that are FPGA related but do not require special hardware
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20:23 | niemand | BAndiT1983, for the FPGA part or other code?
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20:23 | Bertl | with the symbol I do not see except for a binary code :)
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20:23 | davidak | BAndiT1983: i have used Drone CI the last days, it's really simple like Travis
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20:23 | davidak | (i don't like Jenkins because it's too complicated)
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20:23 | BAndiT1983 | jenkins 2.0 is really good
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20:24 | se6astian | Bertl: yes that one :)
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20:24 | BAndiT1983 | CI would be good to gather the code and to test automatically on hardware, like nightly build with flashing and testing
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20:24 | comradekingu | se6astian: Can it be RYF licensed?
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20:25 | Bertl | I don't see why not?
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20:26 | Bertl | we don't do any DRM and we do not actively support it in the hardware/software AFAIK
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20:26 | se6astian | moving ideas/projects out now who do no have a mentor
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20:27 | davidak | should we scrap node/Python API in favor of native language?
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20:27 | davidak | or do you mean a client for the API?
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20:27 | Bertl | I think a python interface would still be a good idea
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20:28 | Bertl | but it can either be a wrapper of a common C library
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20:28 | Bertl | or already a REST client
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20:28 | BAndiT1983 | both would be good
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20:28 | comradekingu | I really like this folding orange thing on the logo https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/logo-history.jpg
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20:28 | davidak | when we have REST we can connect with every language
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20:28 | BAndiT1983 | what about performance?
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20:30 | BAndiT1983 | i would suggest REST and some "native" API, e.g. Python
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20:30 | davidak | what about Elmyra? could Simon mentor some tasks of it?
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20:32 | Bertl | some of the tasks can also be formulated in different levels of complexity
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20:32 | Bertl | for example, the sensor simulation for me has three different levels
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20:32 | Bertl | easy: create a simple test data stream like from the cmv* sensor
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20:33 | Bertl | medium: simulate the data and timing behaviour of the sensor including data related registers
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20:33 | Bertl | hard: create a full fledged simulation which can be put into a separate FPGA
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20:34 | Bertl | similar is true for most of the FPGA related parts
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20:35 | se6astian | gotta leave now for dinner....
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20:35 | davidak | students could work as a team
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20:35 | BAndiT1983 | have a nice meal
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20:35 | se6astian | I gave you edit access
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20:35 | se6astian | to continue the list
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20:35 | Bertl | okay, let's take a short break ... I could use something to eat as well
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20:35 | davidak | same
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20:35 | se6astian | next step is adding one lab task per idea with brief description and a list of prerequisites, description of programming skills needed and estimation of difficulty level.
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20:36 | Bertl | can we continue in half an hour or so?
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20:36 | davidak | ok
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20:36 | BAndiT1983 | by the way node.js and REST go together, if i interpret my google searches correctly
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20:36 | BAndiT1983 | alright
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20:37 | davidak | BAndiT1983: of course you CAN do that but is it good for our use case in embedded hardware?
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20:38 | BAndiT1983 | depends on what do you want to achieve through it
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20:38 | davidak | take a picture just now?
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20:39 | davidak | like tethered shooting
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20:39 | BAndiT1983 | which MCU is used at the moment?
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20:39 | slikdigit | joined the channel | |
20:39 | davidak | what is MCU?
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20:39 | BAndiT1983 | microcontroller unit
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20:40 | BAndiT1983 | sorry, use this abbreviation since my student years
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20:41 | davidak | what microcontroller do you mean?
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20:41 | BAndiT1983 | i think the Zynq®-7000
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20:41 | davidak | Zynq 7020
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20:41 | BAndiT1983 | have looked up the tech specs of beta
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20:42 | BAndiT1983 | usually people use like node.js or python to get REST on their embedded hardware
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20:42 | BAndiT1983 | node.js seems to be faster
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20:42 | Spirit532 | javascript on embedded hardware = death
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20:42 | Spirit532 | or anything involving java
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20:43 | BAndiT1983 | here is also node.js as example for some Zync present -> https://docs.resin.io/installing/gettingStarted-Zynq-ZC702/
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20:43 | BAndiT1983 | ???
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20:43 | BAndiT1983 | you know that javascript and java are 2 different things? node.js is based in Google V8 and is driven by C++
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20:43 | Spirit532 | it has the letters in it
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20:44 | BAndiT1983 | we should forbid the letter -> J, V and A as they are evil :D
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20:44 | BAndiT1983 | *leters
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20:44 | BAndiT1983 | *letters
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20:45 | niemand | running javascript on a mcu seems awkward
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20:46 | BAndiT1983 | on camera-side we could implement in C++, client-side doesn't really matter then
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20:46 | BAndiT1983 | just tell it your smartphone with Android ;)
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20:47 | niemand | Keep the number of software which needs to be updated and maintained low, to reduce the effort needed
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20:49 | davidak | also remember we need maintainers
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20:49 | BAndiT1983 | it's always a balance act between usability and maintenance, we should decide what's important for the remote control
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20:50 | davidak | if we get a student that likes Rust and provide amazing code, we still need someone to maintain it in the future
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20:50 | davidak | i'm not sure how much people are good C programmers
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20:50 | niemand | and someone who reviews the code in the first place :)
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20:50 | Spirit532 | C is universal
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20:51 | BAndiT1983 | i can review the code if necessary, it's almost my daily task in my job
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20:51 | Spirit532 | and when you aren't here?
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20:51 | niemand | yes, for rust that's not so easy I think (tough I agree that would be great actually)
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20:51 | BAndiT1983 | what's so great about rust?
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20:52 | Bertl | a systems programming language that runs blazingly fast, prevents segfaults, and guarantees thread safety.
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20:52 | BAndiT1983 | but there has to be some trade-offs, or not?
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20:52 | Bertl | well, it's not trivial to read/write :)
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20:53 | BAndiT1983 | the syntax is not to my liking, but my area is object oriented, so i'm biased
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20:53 | davidak | i think it's just a modern language and C is very old…
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20:53 | niemand | which is the same for c, but we are all used to c because we have been raised with it
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20:53 | BAndiT1983 | :D instead of milk?
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20:53 | niemand | I (tried to) answer to Bertl^^
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20:54 | BAndiT1983 | don't underestimate C, it's still very good
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20:55 | BAndiT1983 | and i'm looking forward to C++17
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20:56 | Bertl | yeah, well, I'm not against Rust per se, but C and gcc is already installed, and Rust seems to come with its own install/update tool (that seems to be modern as well :)
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20:57 | BAndiT1983 | do we have C++ support?
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20:57 | BAndiT1983 | just asking in case we would use some REST lib
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20:58 | Bertl | personally I don't like C++ very much, if you want to go object oriented, use a truly object oriented language not a hack :)
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20:58 | davidak | one point is also that you can code faster in Ruby, Python and i think Go than C or C++
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20:58 | BAndiT1983 | i disagree with that sentence ;)
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20:58 | Bertl | or do it like the Linux Kernel and code object oriented without language support
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20:58 | niemand | That cargo bullshit in rust is really disgusting
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20:59 | BAndiT1983 | faster execution depends on many things, especially first execution can take much longer
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20:59 | niemand | before I start ranting, i'm off
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20:59 | davidak | (I'm not really a programmer. just know python and perl ;))
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21:00 | BAndiT1983 | i fell outnumbered by hardware guys somehow ;)
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21:00 | davidak | what i know is that Go software is amazing since the programmers are very entusiastic about it :)
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21:00 | BAndiT1983 | maybe another hipster thing
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21:00 | davidak | like Syncthing, Grafana, ...
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21:01 | davidak | BAndiT1983: when it result's in good software i think it is good :)
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21:02 | BAndiT1983 | it also depends on the usage case, imho
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21:02 | davidak | and i see no one want's to take care of old openssl code
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21:02 | BAndiT1983 | is it bleeding again?
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21:02 | davidak | not yet
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21:02 | intracube_afk | changed nick to: intracube
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21:02 | BAndiT1983 | what's the matter with it?
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21:03 | davidak | but who knows what bugs there are
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21:03 | BAndiT1983 | every software has a lot of bugs, if you search thouroughly
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21:03 | BAndiT1983 | i see that openssl is progressing and there was new release a couple of days ago
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21:03 | davidak | but there are always the same problems with C code that you don't have with Rust or Go (i think)
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21:04 | BAndiT1983 | that's a complicated topic, the language does not guarantee that thing
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21:05 | davidak | i'm not sure if you could call C still sustainable
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21:05 | BAndiT1983 | i've seen people writing in C#, like they were used to in C, and it was very awkward and slow
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21:06 | BAndiT1983 | C is still number one, at least according to TIOBE rating
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21:07 | davidak | that is not the point
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21:07 | davidak | Java is also used very often
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21:07 | davidak | i'm interested what language results in good software
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21:07 | BAndiT1983 | yes, but i meant it more in hardware development related way
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21:08 | BAndiT1983 | language is just a tool for that, the developer creates good software, at least one with enough experience
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21:09 | davidak | when you have to write more code in C for the same task than you can have more bugs in it
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21:09 | BAndiT1983 | what do you think, how many times i'm writing ranting mails to remote engineers about bad programming
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21:09 | davidak | and a language can prevent bugs, like Bertl said Rust prevents segfaults and is thread save
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21:09 | BAndiT1983 | but the trade-off is performacne for example
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21:10 | davidak | so there are some advantages in some languages
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21:10 | BAndiT1983 | yes and also disadvantages too
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21:10 | BAndiT1983 | i could get C# to leak memory, although it has garbage collector, if one uses the language wrong, then it will result in mess
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21:10 | Bertl | okay, so let's continue with the task at hand (pun intented)
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21:10 | davidak | is there a performance issue with Rust or Go?
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21:11 | Bertl | let's break the task list down and get some descriptions and classifications done
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21:12 | BAndiT1983 | just to finalize the discussion for now -> http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/rust.html
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21:13 | BAndiT1983 | you can also select comparison to Go at the bottom
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21:15 | BAndiT1983 | we should create the tasks, respectively sub-tasks for each difficulty, in Lab
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21:15 | Bertl | so a quick grep/wc (not so easy with a google doc) gives meL
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21:16 | Bertl | 7 Alex, 5 Andrej, 14 Herbert and 1 Sebastian
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21:16 | Bertl | (note that there are overlaps)
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21:17 | BAndiT1983 | overlaps are welcome, as there could be emergency cases and one mentor is away for the moment
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21:17 | Bertl | which tells me, that we probably have to drop a bunch of 'my' tasks to stay realistic
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21:17 | Bertl | yes, I think we definitely take all tasks which have overlaps
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21:17 | Bertl | i.e. where there is more than one mentor
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21:18 | se6astian | back
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21:19 | BAndiT1983 | hm, not many overlaps
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21:19 | Bertl | so those three would be the ones then
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21:20 | BAndiT1983 | not good we need more
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21:20 | BAndiT1983 | i could overlook also the firmware tasks, have my experience from MCU programming with assembler and C
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21:20 | Bertl | I think the kernel driver tasks are probably very appealing for GSoC folks
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21:21 | BAndiT1983 | it would be interesting for me also
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21:21 | Bertl | to do or to mentor?
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21:21 | BAndiT1983 | both ;), but its gsoc, so mentor first
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21:21 | Bertl | so maybe we should simply vote for the tasks?
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21:22 | Bertl | and please feel free to add yourself as mentor
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21:22 | davidak | (is the time also payd for the mentor?)
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21:22 | Bertl | not from google, AFAIK
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21:22 | se6astian | google also has some recommendations about the projects/ideas
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21:22 | se6astian | Low-hanging fruit: These projects require minimal familiarity with the codebase and basic technical knowledge. They are relatively short, with clear goals.
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21:23 | se6astian | google pays 500$ to the org for every mentored student
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21:23 | se6astian | I would propose we forward that money to the mentors
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21:23 | Bertl | really
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21:23 | Bertl | so that is not too bad then
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21:23 | BAndiT1983 | we have to do some preparation, that was just an underestimation, a lot of preparation
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21:23 | se6astian | well its 3 months of work for 500$ :)
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21:23 | davidak | :D
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21:23 | se6astian | Risky/Exploratory: These projects push the scope boundaries of your development effort. They might require expertise in an area not covered by your current development team. They might take advantage of a new technology. There is a reasonable chance that the project might be less successful, but the potential rewards make it worth the attempt.
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21:24 | se6astian | Fun/Peripheral: These projects might not be related to the current core development focus, but create new innovations and new perspective for your project.
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21:24 | Bertl | we will live like kings!! :)
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21:24 | se6astian | Core development: These projects derive from the ongoing work from the core of your development team. The list of features and bugs is never-ending, and help is always welcome.
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21:24 | se6astian | Infrastructure/Automation: These projects are the code that your organization uses to get its development work done; for example, projects that improve the automation of releases, regression tests and automated builds. This is a category in which a GSoC student can be really helpful, doing work that the development team has been putting off while they focus on core development.
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21:24 | se6astian | The project you propose will define the tone and scope of your organization's participation in GSoC. It is a key part of your organization's application. Further, it may be the first impression made on a potential student applicant.
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21:24 | BAndiT1983 | i want to see how Bertl tries to pay his rent from GsoC :D
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21:25 | se6astian | so we should have a bit of everything
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21:25 | Bertl | I think we have
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21:25 | se6astian | so lets start with the lab tasks
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21:26 | se6astian | https://lab.apertus.org/T722
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21:27 | se6astian | prerequisites, description of programming skills needed and estimation of difficulty level.
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21:27 | BAndiT1983 | will we base it on Stephans new algorithm also or is it not public currently?
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21:27 | se6astian | we can discuss this with stephan
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21:28 | Bertl | let's push out a few tasks with different mentors at a time
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21:28 | se6astian | but there are many things to try with debayering
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21:28 | se6astian | Bertl, alexML_ please edit the QEMU emulation for the Beta hardware (e.g. boot the custom Arch Linux, take a “fake” picture with cmv_snap) - hard (low-level) (Mentor: Alex, but also need Herbert’s advice)
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21:28 | se6astian | task
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21:29 | se6astian | BAndiT1983: please edit the debayering task description
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21:29 | Bertl | which task is the QEMU one?
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21:29 | BAndiT1983 | i'm on to it at the moment, have to reflect a bit
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21:30 | se6astian | great
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21:30 | se6astian | Bertl: could you imagine being backup mentor for the Lens Control task?
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21:30 | Bertl | why not
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21:31 | alexML_ | Bertl: QEMU is T724
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21:31 | Bertl | se6astian: but you should talk to the Sebastian guy, he doesn't want to mentor much :)
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21:31 | Bertl | alexML_: TX
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21:34 | Bertl | alexML_: so what prerequisites does that task have?
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21:39 | alexML_ | I'd say C, ARM assembly, ability to find one's way around a huge C codebase (QEMU)
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21:39 | BAndiT1983 | very advanced task
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21:39 | alexML_ | yes
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21:40 | BAndiT1983 | but you would point in the right direction, so the difficulty could be reduced
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21:41 | alexML_ | correct; here's where we are with emulating Canon firmwares in QEMU: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2864.100
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21:42 | se6astian | alexML_: please review: https://lab.apertus.org/T726
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21:42 | alexML_ | basically enough to boot the GUI on some models and also emulate image capture (enough to get raw image data in a buffer from a DNG)
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21:42 | BAndiT1983 | i'm still waiting for eos760d ;) but i don't have time to help to develop it currently
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21:42 | se6astian | from RAM perspective would the darkframe processing work inside the camera?
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21:42 | se6astian | in raw2dng
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21:43 | alexML_ | darkframe creation?
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21:44 | alexML_ | yes, it uses an accumulator to average the frames
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21:44 | alexML_ | could be even accelerated by FPGA
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21:44 | Bertl | se6astian: is that sufficient for QSoC? https://lab.apertus.org/T724
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21:45 | se6astian | alexML_: great
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21:46 | se6astian | Bertl: looks good, google lists Prerequisites and programming skills separately but its a gray area I guess
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21:47 | Bertl | okay, then let's move on to the next one, we can still refine it lateron
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21:47 | BAndiT1983 | i've adjusted the T722
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21:47 | davidak | can we add a "Your Own Idea" task like https://community.kde.org/GSoC/2016/Ideas#Project:_Something_that_you.27re_totally_excited_about
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21:48 | davidak | this way we could also get interesting ideas :)
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21:48 | davidak | to implement ourselves later
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21:49 | se6astian | good idea
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21:49 | Bertl | "surprise us!"
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21:50 | davidak | finally implement that helicopter with the fan
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21:50 | se6astian | added
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21:50 | davidak | then we have a drone
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21:50 | Bertl | alexML_: I'll do a quick structure for T725 now
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21:54 | se6astian | we will receive students applications and mentors will pick their students from it
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21:54 | se6astian | if they want a drone the chance they will be accepted by anyone of us is rather small I guess
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21:54 | se6astian | the ideas/projects they pick are part of the application
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21:56 | Bertl | alexML_: please extend T725
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21:57 | BAndiT1983 | jsut PWM the fan high enough for that task :D
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21:57 | se6astian | its a great low hanging fruit
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21:58 | davidak | it was a great feature of the alpha
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21:58 | se6astian | T275: we will need a working off the shelf camera/lens assembly to eavesdrop on
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22:00 | BAndiT1983 | for such info? -> https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Lens_Serial_Interface
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22:01 | se6astian | yes lets collect references as well in the task description
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22:01 | se6astian | there is lots of such information already on the internet
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22:01 | se6astian | about different lenses/systems
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22:01 | BAndiT1983 | yes, on MagicLantern forum :D
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22:01 | se6astian | I am sure the entire task could be solved by just collecting google search information :)
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22:02 | BAndiT1983 | https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3796.0
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22:05 | alexML_ | https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=18308 (very good docs)
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22:06 | Bertl | I've created T728, please somebody check
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22:10 | se6astian | made headers bold and added beta software project tag
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22:11 | davidak | should we improve the organisation of code and stuff before students search for them?
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22:12 | se6astian | you mean github?
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22:12 | davidak | and make sure the latest changes are pushed
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22:12 | davidak | for example
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22:12 | se6astian | wouldnt hurt of course
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22:12 | davidak | i think much is in the wiki or somewhere else...
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22:14 | BAndiT1983 | yeah, we have to prepare separate branches for gsoc, imho
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22:14 | davidak | if we use GitHub the students can create Pull Requests
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22:14 | davidak | from their own branch
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22:15 | BAndiT1983 | so they should fork?
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22:15 | se6astian | yes
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22:15 | se6astian | thats the standard method to commit own changes
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22:15 | se6astian | fork, push, merge
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22:15 | davidak | at least on GitHub
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22:15 | se6astian | yes
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22:15 | se6astian | ok I gotta leave for today
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22:15 | se6astian | I think we are progressing very well
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22:15 | se6astian | deadline tomorrow 18:00
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22:15 | davidak | yes
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22:16 | se6astian | but I leave office at 17:00
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22:16 | se6astian | then I will have to submit the application
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22:16 | BAndiT1983 | alright, i will try to be before that time at home
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22:16 | se6astian | of course we can still make changes to our lab
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22:16 | se6astian | but we do not know if google pulls a static html page from the application process
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22:16 | se6astian | or if a physical person accesses it at a later point
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22:16 | se6astian | so we better have everything ready tomorrow
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22:17 | Bertl | what if a virtual person accesses it at a later point? :)
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22:17 | BAndiT1983 | this would be the year 2035
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22:17 | se6astian | and what if a vertical person does that?!
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22:18 | Bertl | we have to add some colors ...
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22:19 | davidak | also take a moment and think how a students firtst impressiom would be with what we have
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22:20 | davidak | don't assume they know stuff, link to more information about our project etc
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22:20 | davidak | it is also a way to promote our vision
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22:26 | Bertl | definitely
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22:29 | RexOrCine | Whats the project assignment list called?
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22:29 | Bertl | hmm?
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22:30 | RexOrCine | The ideas list, whats it referred to inside GSoC?
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22:30 | RexOrCine | referred to as*
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22:30 | Bertl | no idea
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22:30 | RexOrCine | It was mentioned by someone at one point.
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22:31 | BAndiT1983 | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n7BxN4UFok-JP47zsJ2w6oAErJ1aFpHtssCNx4dB9P0/edit#
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22:31 | BAndiT1983 | this one?
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22:32 | RexOrCine | Yeah. se6astian might know. I think the term might have been laid out........
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22:33 | RexOrCine | Ah, workboard?
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22:33 | RexOrCine | Must be.
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22:34 | Bertl | I think that might be the term phabricator uses
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22:34 | RexOrCine | Ah.
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22:34 | RexOrCine | It'll be in the application stipulations.
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22:36 | BAndiT1983 | left the channel | |
22:42 | comradekingu | Do get the "obselete" changed to "obsolete"
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22:57 | Bertl | I'm off to bed now ... have a good one everyone! thanks for the QSoC help!
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22:57 | Bertl | changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
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22:58 | davidak | good night Bertl
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23:17 | Rex0r | comradekingu - Where's this?
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23:17 | Rex0r | Flyer?
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23:22 | Rex0r | Ah. I see. The Nofilmschool quote.
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23:29 | comradekingu | Rex0r: It is in the quote on a few of the images
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23:29 | comradekingu | yesyes
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23:36 | se6astian | off to bed as well
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23:36 | se6astian | good night
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23:36 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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