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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2017/02/08

Timezone: UTC


00:35
intracube
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intracube
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RexOrCine
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davidak
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03:56
Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
03:56
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
06:52
Spirit532
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LordVan
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07:55
LordVan
morning
09:05
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morrigan_
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Bertl_zZ
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se6astian|away
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Bertl_zZ
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10:25
Bertl
morning folks!
10:50
ItsMeLenny
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se6astian
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12:00
pusle
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12:02
Bertl
off for now ... bbs
12:02
pusle
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Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
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ItsMeLenny
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LordVan
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RexOrCine
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jucar
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15:02
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
15:27
se6astian
good evening
16:08
arpu
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16:13
Spirit532
Apertus might be interested in Alexima's latest sensor - LUX160
16:13
Spirit532
16MP @ 330fps, 4K @ 500fps
16:14
Spirit532
No NDA as far as I'm aware, but no public quotes.
16:25
Bertl_oO
it would be great if you could get/link the datasheet then
16:25
Bertl_oO
(so we can check if it would work on the Beta)
16:34
se6astian
good find, I will contact them
16:50
dimaursu16
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dimaursu16
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dimaursu16
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17:08
Spirit532
Bertl_oO, datasheets aren't public, gotta email them
17:09
Spirit532
it probably can work on the Beta, but not anywhere near the full speed
17:57
davidak
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17:59
davidak
good evening everyone
18:00
intracube
hi
18:00
intracube
meeting is imminent? :)
18:00
se6astian
indeed
18:00
davidak
yes
18:01
intracube
pours a coffee
18:01
se6astian
lets go through the flyer text first
18:02
se6astian
at the end of the google doc
18:02
intracube
ok
18:02
se6astian
"Designed by a worldwide community of film-makers, all device schematics have been made publicly available in conjunction with the FOSS/OH ethos."
18:02
se6astian
while I think its good to have the term "filmmakers" in there somewhere
18:02
se6astian
here I think its missguiding/wrong
18:03
davidak
does a cinema camera buyer know what a "FOSS/OH ethos" is?
18:04
se6astian
probably not
18:04
se6astian
lets phrase that out as well
18:04
davidak
also you are right, we are not only filmmakers
18:04
intracube
se6astian: "worldwide community of camera users and specialists"
18:04
intracube
?
18:05
se6astian
well it sounds strange that "users" created something
18:05
davidak
yes
18:06
intracube
I thought about 'enthusiasts', but that sounds too amateur
18:06
se6astian
"Designed by a worldwide community of experts from different kinds of professions"
18:06
se6astian
maybe?
18:06
intracube
it doesn't seem so strange that users are part of the design process. that's a defining part of Open Src
18:06
davidak
what professions?
18:06
davidak
;)
18:07
intracube
"different kinds of professions" - sounds a bit wordy/vague
18:07
intracube
and users are getting involved in the design process (feedback etc)
18:08
davidak
users and makers?
18:08
intracube
so "camera users and specialists" seems quite accurate
18:08
intracube
users and designers?
18:08
davidak
whould you consider calling yourself specialist se6astian?
18:09
davidak
intracube: designer sound like graphic
18:09
se6astian
well everyone is special is his own kind of way :D
18:09
davidak
:D
18:09
se6astian
"experts"?
18:09
intracube
davidak: hm, yeah I guess
18:10
intracube
experts... or specialists :)
18:10
intracube
and it seems like there should be at least one extra comma in the first sentence
18:10
intracube
there isn't much of a natural pause considering the number of words
18:11
se6astian
feel free to add it :)
18:11
davidak
"camera entusiasts and makers"?
18:11
se6astian
"Designed by a worldwide community of film-makers, camera experts and technical specialists" ?
18:11
se6astian
"makers" is good
18:12
davidak
a normal videographer who goes to a store and picks one camera wouldn't consider the axiom beta
18:12
se6astian
but we have the makers in "film-makers" already
18:13
davidak
do we have much people with a free software / open hardware / free culture background?
18:13
intracube
I think the first couple of sentences flows better
18:13
davidak
i would consider myself one :)
18:14
se6astian
we hand out such flyers at maker faires or linux events
18:14
intracube
I think the majority of the people involved have a background in open src
18:14
se6astian
so we can assume that many people reading this will be FOSS aware
18:14
davidak
"Designed by a worldwide community of film-makers, camera experts and open source entusiasts"?
18:14
intracube
(it'd be interesting to know how many people in IRC and elsewhere use linux)
18:14
se6astian
sounds good
18:14
intracube
I'm guessing it's significant
18:14
davidak
that would include Linux people and programmers
18:15
se6astian
changed
18:15
intracube
although that's now several mentions of open source
18:15
intracube
repetition?
18:15
davidak
intracube: just throw in a poll later
18:15
intracube
yep
18:16
se6astian
"All device schematics have been made publicly available in conjunction with the Free Open Source Software/Open Hardware ethos. " is just to explain what open source means
18:16
se6astian
we mention open source two times before that
18:16
se6astian
we need to also tender this flyer to be for non OS aware people....
18:16
davidak
1. it is open source 2. becouse that is important to US
18:16
davidak
so it fits
18:17
se6astian
"All device schematics and software source codes have been made publicly available." remove: "in conjunction with the Free Open Source Software/Open Hardware ethos." ?
18:18
intracube
se6astian: yep, that would be better imo
18:18
davidak
yes
18:18
davidak
it is too long
18:18
se6astian
do you say "software source codes" ?
18:18
se6astian
or "software source code" ?
18:18
intracube
software source code
18:18
davidak
code
18:19
se6astian
fixed
18:19
se6astian
thanks
18:19
se6astian
is the "sustainable" discussion resolved?
18:19
se6astian
or are there any concerns about the word still?
18:20
intracube
it still feels like it's to do with the environment, where I suspect the main meaning here is upgradable
18:20
davidak
i think it was resolved
18:21
se6astian
its good to also include a bit of the environmental aspect
18:21
se6astian
upgrade instead of replace also means less waste, etc.
18:21
davidak
yes, absolutely
18:22
se6astian
of course we cant claim we will save the planet with a few cameras but its the message that counts
18:22
davidak
it is a small step
18:22
davidak
in the right direction
18:23
se6astian
ok next point, the "photographic situation" ?
18:23
se6astian
how can we word that to also include videographers, vision people?
18:24
davidak
with "photographic" i associate a photo and not moving images
18:24
se6astian
agreed
18:24
intracube
"master any project or situation"
18:24
intracube
?
18:24
davidak
yes
18:24
se6astian
right
18:24
davidak
sounds good
18:24
davidak
"provides the building blocks"
18:25
davidak
are it multiple blocks?
18:25
davidak
or one device?
18:25
intracube
it's going to be a modular design
18:25
se6astian
well the modules are each blocks to put together
18:25
intracube
the Gamma, at least
18:25
se6astian
the beta as well
18:25
davidak
ok
18:26
intracube
oh, I thought the Beta was a closed unit
18:26
intracube
hasn't kept up to date with developments :)
18:26
intracube
is there going to be an image nearby that shows the modular aspect of the camera?
18:27
davidak
https://www.apertus.org/axiom-beta-status
18:27
davidak
here are the modules that are currently in development at the bottom
18:27
davidak
and in this concept you see a slot https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/axiom-beta-concept-enlosure-03.png
18:28
intracube
is that a render or a photoshop/gimp job?
18:28
intracube
gets side-tracked
18:28
davidak
3D rendering i think
18:29
intracube
looks really good
18:29
davidak
the lens and sockets might be a photograph
18:29
se6astian
its actually a photoshop drawing :)
18:30
davidak
i hope it get's thinner
18:30
intracube
nice
18:30
intracube
I always liked this concept render: https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/project/AXIOM_GAMMA-website-banner-01.jpg
18:30
intracube
shows of the modularity well
18:30
se6astian
agreed
18:30
davidak
yes, that looks good and very professional
18:30
se6astian
next point: Super35/APS-C format
18:30
se6astian
any objections if we keep both?
18:31
intracube
might be worth putting the latter in brackets?
18:31
davidak
i think we can attract most attention if we have both
18:31
se6astian
fine for me
18:31
intracube
/ might mean 'or'
18:31
davidak
so photo and video people recognize it
18:31
intracube
but they're almost exactly the same format
18:32
intracube
at least the width dimension
18:32
dimaursu16
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18:32
intracube
actually, if APS-C is 3:2, it is a bit different
18:32
davidak
Super35 (APS-C)
18:32
intracube
maybe better left as is
18:32
intracube
doesn't matter one way or the other, imo
18:33
se6astian
right, we are through the text!
18:33
intracube
although Super35 would be the more important, since APS-C is based in still photo land
18:33
intracube
yep :)
18:34
davidak
so Super35 (APS-C) would fit
18:34
intracube
yep
18:35
se6astian
changed
18:35
se6astian
now we have the logos
18:35
intracube
although Super35 has a slightly greater height than APS-C
18:35
_florent_
left the channel
18:36
se6astian
we need to differenciate those logos that have added text
18:36
se6astian
and the logos without text
18:36
intracube
differentiate?
18:36
se6astian
yes ;)
18:37
intracube
do you mean spacing/layout or colour?
18:37
se6astian
yes
18:37
se6astian
I was thinking of making the logos plus text into 3 coloumns
18:37
intracube
or the logos by themselves could be horizontal and centred?
18:37
se6astian
but I fear it will look strange that we have so much text for the first item in the first coloumn
18:37
se6astian
and much less in the others
18:37
BAndiT1983
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18:38
intracube
and the logos + text could be as they are now (stacked), but also centreed?
18:38
se6astian
let me check if we can do live layout collaboration somewhere like draw.io
18:38
intracube
are there any better CMV12000, FPGA, ARM images? they're not that consistent in style right now
18:39
davidak
we will create icons like that
18:39
davidak
it was only to test how it looks
18:39
intracube
ah ok
18:40
davidak
to have icons for that informations in general
18:40
davidak
first this technical details was also in the text
18:40
davidak
but that would be way too much information
18:42
intracube
currently looks superfluous. 'sensor modules in development' would mean the same
18:42
intracube
remove?
18:42
se6astian
does this work: https://sketchboard.me/zAkPzBjQfPyn#/ ?
18:43
intracube
I'll need to enable JavaScript
18:43
intracube
or just switch to another browser
18:43
intracube
yep. working here
18:44
se6astian
looks good
18:44
se6astian
its really realtime
18:44
se6astian
I see every stroke being drawn
18:45
xfxf
left the channel
18:45
davidak
everyone is going crazy :D
18:46
intracube
I can't figure out how to delete
18:46
davidak
you have to select every line
18:46
davidak
and press Entf.
18:46
davidak
or Del.
18:46
davidak
i don't know how select multiple elements
18:47
BAndiT1983
shift and drag for box selection
18:47
davidak
ah, thanks
18:48
intracube
it also matters what draw mode you're in
18:48
intracube
I couldn't select multiple elements when drawing primitive shapes
18:49
intracube
is there enough room to put all the icon + text elements horizontally?
18:50
se6astian
its a challenge
18:50
se6astian
both vertical and horizontally
18:51
BAndiT1983
do you want it to be static or something like a flowpanel / carousel with slight rotation?
18:53
davidak
i would use static
18:53
davidak
but i'm not a designer
18:54
se6astian
what does a flowplanel look like?
18:54
BAndiT1983
i have to look up an example
18:55
davidak
do we have a newer PCB stack image?
18:55
se6astian
maybe like this now?
18:55
BAndiT1983
something like that, but much less round -> http://www.picz.ge/img/s1/1010/31/6/6e8a7852abce.jpg
18:56
davidak
we don't have hundesds of icons
18:56
BAndiT1983
http://bashooka.com/coding/responsive-jquery-carousel-plugins/
18:56
BAndiT1983
it's not about amount, they can just oscillate slightly, if there is less space available
18:57
se6astian
BAndiT1983: its a print flyer :)
18:57
davidak
:D
18:57
BAndiT1983
ah, :D you see i missed the beginning
18:57
se6astian
:)
18:57
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl
18:57
BAndiT1983
too much UI development at work ;)
18:57
Bertl
*phew* finally here ...
18:58
davidak
hi Bertl, we are still discussing the Flyer
18:58
Bertl
yeah, no problem ...
19:00
Bertl
what's the 'current' text?
19:00
davidak
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TPMb4SYdlWopCSHlJm4GcKz_RScZ5h3annAwawtn8vI/edit
19:00
se6astian
added layout draft
19:01
se6astian
lets see what ray can come up with this
19:01
se6astian
but I think the text is really good now
19:01
davidak
yes, i also really like it
19:01
Bertl
is my input appreciated? :)
19:01
davidak
always :)
19:02
Bertl
I'm missing the 'never obsolete' part for the hardware
19:02
se6astian
had to tune the doc sharing settings
19:02
se6astian
once posted here its public....
19:03
se6astian
'never obsolete' added
19:03
Bertl
excellent!
19:03
davidak
">Dual ARM Core and Linux inside."
19:04
davidak
i think "Dual Core ARM" would be more accurate
19:04
Bertl
maybe at the end of the first paragraph something like:
19:04
RexOrCine
Present
19:04
davidak
since it is 1 processor with 2 cores
19:04
Spirit532
se6astian, when you get a reply from Alexima/Luxima(same founder/employees), please PM me with the prices/whatever they give you for the LUX160
19:04
Spirit532
I might be interested in getting one myself.
19:04
Bertl
project or situation and the open interfaces allow to extend those as needed.
19:05
Bertl
(or something along the lines of 'extensions are easy to add')
19:05
Bertl
maybe extend and complement those
19:05
davidak
Bertl: that will make it much longer
19:06
Bertl
okay, length is an issue? or do we just want to keep it as short as possible?
19:06
BAndiT1983
it should have 3 to 5 sentences to make the point
19:06
BAndiT1983
otherwise it overloads people with infos
19:06
Bertl
well, strictly speaking that would be the same (last) sentence :)
19:06
se6astian
"and extendable plug-in interfaces (up to 12 Gbps bandwidth)"
19:07
se6astian
just one word added
19:07
davidak
good
19:07
Bertl
works for me
19:07
se6astian
great
19:08
comradekingu
I asked for permission to see the draft
19:08
davidak
what do you thing about the ARM sentence?
19:08
BAndiT1983
reminds me of intel inside :)
19:08
Bertl
yep Dual Core Arm is better
19:09
davidak
i changed it
19:09
Bertl
the question is, if we should mention the arm separately
19:09
intracube
is it worth adding CPU?
19:09
Bertl
because it is part of the Xilinx ZYNQ
19:09
intracube
I guess that can be inferred from 'dual core'
19:09
davidak
the beta is not special because it uses a CPU or ARM, so i think not
19:10
Bertl
so personally I'd swap that around a little bit
19:10
Bertl
we have other interesting stuff on the Beta
19:10
davidak
Linux already tells people if they know Linux they can easily extend it
19:10
Bertl
maybe have:
19:10
Bertl
(a Zynq Picture) with XIlinx Zynq SoC, Dual Amr Core, ...
19:11
Bertl
then mention the Lattice routing fabric and the Microchip PICs
19:11
davidak
what :D
19:11
Bertl
and finally add a sentence for IMU or so?
19:12
davidak
i don't understand anything and i think someone looking for a camera also
19:12
se6astian
we are already short on space now...
19:12
Bertl
then maybe skip the arm and make it a penguin
19:12
Bertl
and just write Dual Core ARM Linux inside
19:13
BAndiT1983
left the channel
19:13
davidak
"Firmware based on GNU/Linux"
19:13
davidak
i would like that phrase :)
19:13
Bertl
actually Arch/Linux :)
19:13
se6astian
tux logo plus "Dual Core ARM Linux inside" should work I think
19:13
Bertl
but yes, I agree, GNU/Linux is very Richard!
19:14
Bertl
(RMS)
19:15
davidak
i have a picture of him on the wall
19:15
se6astian
lol
19:15
davidak
holding a sign: "With free software you have freedom"
19:15
davidak
you may know that
19:16
Bertl
yep
19:17
se6astian
this http://www.opimedia.be/DS/une/_jpg/Richard-Stallman-on-the-road.jpg
19:17
se6astian
?
19:17
davidak
exactly
19:17
se6astian
very nice
19:17
se6astian
ok can we conclude the flyer for today?
19:17
davidak
yes
19:17
se6astian
anything left you do not like, would like changed?
19:18
se6astian
otherwise we let ray take a go
19:18
se6astian
and discuss what he comes up with then
19:18
davidak
we made good progress the last days :)
19:18
Bertl
the FPGA logo looks ugly
19:18
BAndiT1983
joined the channel
19:19
davidak
Bertl: what would you use?
19:19
se6astian
text above icon says "Icons are just drafts for now, should have simplified design that is the same style:"
19:19
Bertl
I would probably use the xilinx and the zynq and the lattice logos
19:19
intracube
se6astian: the paragraph for the sensor spec is a bit long compared to the other two
19:20
se6astian
true
19:20
intracube
words like pixel could be removed?
19:20
davidak
it's hard to read
19:21
intracube
you mean with pixel removed?
19:21
davidak
yes
19:21
se6astian
removing pixels is fine
19:21
se6astian
I turned "fps" into "frames per second"
19:21
se6astian
but we can go back to fps
19:21
intracube
could bullet points be put between each part of the spec?
19:21
se6astian
just not sure if people will understand
19:22
intracube
I think anyone looking at this level of camera system will understand fps :)
19:23
se6astian
ok
19:23
se6astian
google docs has so many symbols
19:23
se6astian
bathtub!
19:23
intracube
global shutter · 4096 x 3072 · Super35 (APS-C) format · up to 300 fps at 4K · Alternative image sensor modules are in development
19:24
intracube
^ something like that
19:24
BAndiT1983
looks fine with points
19:24
davidak
yes
19:24
Bertl
last comment to the logo section: I would use the manufacturer logos and drop the names from the text
19:24
Bertl
i.e. I would put the MicroZed, Xilinx, Lattice, Microchip and Cmosis logo there
19:25
davidak
so have only CMV12000 in the text?
19:25
Bertl
and just have the text use the specifica, like Zynq, PIC, CMV12k
19:26
se6astian
noted
19:26
Bertl
those technically interested will know what it means
19:26
BAndiT1983
is it "real time" or "realtime", google gives many possible cases, also real-time
19:26
Bertl
and those not interested might recognise the company logos
19:26
davidak
http://www.dict.cc/?s=realtime
19:26
davidak
also both
19:26
BAndiT1983
was there, also not conclusive ;)
19:27
davidak
i would say realtime
19:27
BAndiT1983
searched for "Internal real time video processing" on google to find similar things
19:28
Bertl
okay, move on to the GSoC project brainstorming?
19:28
se6astian
comradekingu: stop changing the text completely!
19:28
davidak
from the translation, i think "real time" means something else
19:28
BAndiT1983
yes, haven't considiered the translation
19:28
Rex0r
joined the channel
19:29
comradekingu
se6astian: i just corrected some errors
19:29
comradekingu
Made comments for the ones that were hardcoded into images
19:29
intracube
as word pairings become popular, they usually end up joined or hyphenated
19:29
comradekingu
You can give suggestion rights if you dont want errors fixed
19:30
intracube
so I think realtime or real-time is more common now
19:31
comradekingu
se6astian: Try reading that sentence now, it makes no sense
19:32
se6astian
you removed half if it
19:32
comradekingu
The part i removed did nothing
19:32
se6astian
unfortunately revision history is hard to read to revert it....
19:32
comradekingu
I could make suggestions
19:33
comradekingu
This is the sentence "The worlds first, fully open source and open hardware motion picture camera system. has been devised to be modular and repairable, designed by a worldwide community of film-makers, camera experts and free software enthusiasts."
19:33
se6astian
we just concluded the meeting that deals with writing this text
19:33
comradekingu
The worlds first comma. provides no info
19:33
davidak
we discussed that several time
19:33
_florent_
joined the channel
19:34
Bertl
hey _florent_!
19:34
intracube
this was the original first para text:
19:34
intracube
"The worldâs first, fully open source and open hardware motion picture camera system. Devised to be completely modular and repairable and designed by a worldwide community of film-makers, camera experts and open source enthusiasts. All device schematics and software source code have been made publicly available. Not just a camera, the AXIOM Beta is a constantly evolving, sustainable hardware and software ecosystem. With Interchangeable lens
19:34
intracube
mounts (e-mount as standard), swappable image sensors (Full-frame, High Speed, Four Thirds, 2/3", etc.) and plug-in interfaces (up to 12 Gbps bandwidth), the AXIOM Beta provides the building blocks to master any project or situation."
19:34
comradekingu
Well, my argument is what it is, not how it came to be that way
19:35
intracube
in case it got lost in Google's revision system...
19:35
se6astian
thanks intracube
19:35
se6astian
replacing
19:36
comradekingu
completely, fully, deviced and enthusiasts can be done away with
19:36
comradekingu
and world's
19:36
se6astian
ok flyer meeting concluded
19:36
se6astian
comradekingu: feel free to add comments in the google doc
19:37
comradekingu
ok
19:37
comradekingu
extenable not a word btw
19:37
se6astian
so GSoC is on!
19:37
se6astian
we are VERY late
19:37
davidak
yay
19:37
Spirit532
though it's not going to be very open if it's still in eagle
19:37
intracube
:)
19:37
Spirit532
because autodesk
19:37
se6astian
and I have to admit I have doubts if we can still finish everything in the next 22hours
19:37
davidak
true
19:37
intracube
this was my rough layout idea: http://i.imgur.com/kGVtBkk.png
19:38
comradekingu
I am the green snowy pine trees
19:38
Bertl
yeah, well, autodesk will help to speed up the kicad transition
19:38
se6astian
but lets try!
19:38
BAndiT1983
what the hell, i have missed the point in time when autodesk bought it
19:38
davidak
se6astian: YES
19:38
se6astian
so the application text is pretty much finished
19:39
Spirit532
BAndiT1983, it's also subscription only now.
19:39
se6astian
the biggest thing google reviews is the idea page
19:39
Spirit532
autodesk killed eagle
19:39
davidak
se6astian: i have read it, it's ok
19:39
se6astian
just look at KDE: https://community.kde.org/GSoC/2016/Ideas
19:39
Spirit532
it was "an okay" software to use before
19:39
Spirit532
now it's obsolete
19:39
BAndiT1983
i used target3001 before, was never big friend of eagle user experience
19:39
Bertl
okay, I've got a list of 17 (seventeen) potential tasks/projects for GSoC
19:39
se6astian
great!
19:40
se6astian
how to best organize them?
19:40
se6astian
google doc?
19:40
Bertl
but I would prefer to start with a brainstorming, where everybody says what comes to his/her mind
19:40
se6astian
sure
19:40
se6astian
I ll collect them in a google doc
19:40
se6astian
shoot
19:40
davidak
Bertl: how much students do we want
19:40
se6astian
I d say 3 max
19:40
davidak
and how much tasks do we need so
19:40
Bertl
as many as we get and we can handle
19:40
se6astian
6-9 would make sense
19:40
se6astian
more = better
19:41
Bertl
if we make a list of 20 tasks, I think that is fine as well
19:41
BAndiT1983
which students can apply, just from austria and surrounding or from evrywhere?
19:41
se6astian
right
19:41
Bertl
it doesn't mean that we have to put them all on GSoC :)
19:41
se6astian
worldwide
19:41
intracube
changed nick to: intracube_afk
19:42
BAndiT1983
oha, time difference will be interesting thing
19:42
se6astian
so I added the 4K HDMI fpga code as idea in the lab workboard already
19:42
se6astian
plus a nodejs API
19:42
se6astian
for future interactive webinterfaces, etc.
19:42
davidak
shouldn't it be a Python API some time ago?
19:42
Bertl
isn't nodejs that thing which didn't work?
19:43
Bertl
(i.e. didn't want to install/work/etc)
19:43
BAndiT1983
is there already something like a remote app for android?
19:43
davidak
yes, i think so
19:43
se6astian
hackmd yes
19:43
se6astian
but saying it the way you did it its like saying "isnt that the C++ thing that didnt work" :)
19:43
Bertl
so I don't think java is a good idea _on_ the camera
19:43
BAndiT1983
nooooooo
19:43
davidak
:d
19:43
Bertl
it will make the camera die a horrible death :)
19:43
se6astian
nodejs is javascript
19:44
BAndiT1983
have to develop in java at work, still happy to be c++ developer at home
19:44
davidak
it would need lot's of RAM :D
19:44
BAndiT1983
java is not javascript ;)
19:44
Bertl
okay, so brainstorming!!!
19:44
se6astian
shoot people!
19:44
Bertl
what would you want somebody to develop for the Beta
19:44
Spirit532
nothing containing the word "java" should ever exist on embedded hardware
19:44
Spirit532
ever
19:44
Bertl
(software only, unless you can come up with the hardware)
19:44
BAndiT1983
and still android is one of the best selling plattforms :D
19:45
Bertl
agrees with Spirit532
19:45
davidak
the remote software
19:45
se6astian
define "remote software"
19:45
Spirit532
Qt, maybe
19:45
Spirit532
(if we're talking PC)
19:45
davidak
the software running on the remote
19:45
Spirit532
that's still embedded
19:45
BAndiT1983
like the one with which i can control my canon DSLR from my smartphone
19:45
BAndiT1983
you have live preview and can set shutter, exposure etc.
19:46
Spirit532
well, smartphone apps have to be made with their own SDKs
19:46
Spirit532
so that's a given
19:46
davidak
yes
19:46
se6astian
-) moving the FPN calibration routine plus validation into the camera and all into one script
19:46
davidak
but maybe the remote uses the API?
19:46
BAndiT1983
Qt would be not a big problem, and there can be a module for OC for such things like remote control or similar
19:46
davidak
so we need that first
19:47
Bertl
brainstorming, not arguing or thinking! :)
19:47
se6astian
slower than realtime camera internal hdmi overlay text and primitive drawing framework
19:47
Spirit532
the remote could use the same interface as apps
19:47
Spirit532
(minus live view)
19:47
Spirit532
bluetooth perhaps
19:48
se6astian
"ESP32 bluetooth communication demo" added
19:48
davidak
implement the remote software -> http://files.apertus.org/controller-simulator/
19:48
Spirit532
ESP32 wouldn't be fast enough for live view though, would it?
19:48
Spirit532
davidak, that looks like something I can do in a day
19:48
se6astian
collecting ideas from brainstorming here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n7BxN4UFok-JP47zsJ2w6oAErJ1aFpHtssCNx4dB9P0/edit
19:49
BAndiT1983
does Beta has wifi or just BT?
19:49
se6astian
davidak: no hardware yet
19:49
se6astian
wifi and bt
19:49
davidak
ok
19:49
BAndiT1983
canon uses wifi for live preview
19:49
BAndiT1983
it could be useful for static recording, when you don't need very fast preview
19:49
BAndiT1983
there is also not much delay, as i can tell from my experience
19:49
Bertl
BAndiT1983: the Beta itself doesn't have either, but we have an ESP32 shield in the works which does both and we can use USB dongles for Wifi/BT
19:49
se6astian
make that MJPEG encoder fpga code
19:51
se6astian
added
19:51
Bertl
okay, unfortunately not much storming here ... so let's discuss the list I madeL
19:51
Spirit532
I've got some debayering code
19:51
BAndiT1983
Sebastian, what about the new algorithm from Stephan?
19:52
Spirit532
it's not very good though
19:52
Spirit532
just nearest neighbor
19:52
BAndiT1983
i've added simple linear debayering and was on to adding SHOODAK, but priorities changed half a year ago
19:52
BAndiT1983
but nearest is also helpful for draft preview
19:52
Spirit532
I don't really contribute to hw projects I don't own
19:53
Spirit532
and I'd rather drop $5k on a good lathe/mill combo right now
19:53
se6astian
herbert can we control the fan speed on the microzed yet in software?
19:53
davidak
maybe there is already good open source code out there somewhere?
19:53
xfxf
joined the channel
19:53
Bertl
the fan is on a port pin, so PWM could be implemented
19:54
Bertl
but we don't have an implementation yet
19:54
davidak
some python dev to work on Elmyra
19:54
Bertl
it is controlled by one of the routing fabrics
19:55
davidak
active lens mount for aperture control
19:55
davidak
and focus
19:55
davidak
autofocus
19:56
se6astian
is there
19:56
se6astian
Lens Control (various Protocols: Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc.)
19:56
BAndiT1983
there are some command-line tools in the repo, should the get some UI?
19:56
BAndiT1983
*they
19:56
se6astian
good idea
19:57
Bertl
maybe we should simply do a GET/POST interface for camera control?
19:57
comradekingu
Made a comment with a suggestion for the text
19:57
Bertl
with a well defined API
19:57
BAndiT1983
REST API?
19:57
se6astian
added
19:57
davidak
Bertl: would that be called REST-API?
19:58
Bertl
yep, we could do REST
19:58
Bertl
then all kind of client side apps can use that
19:59
davidak
should that api be high performance and written in native language like C++, Go or Rust?
19:59
Bertl
regardless of what underlying language or presentation
19:59
davidak
so a picture is taken immediately when you hit the trigger?
19:59
Bertl
my preference would actually be C
19:59
BAndiT1983
yeah, C on the embedded side for performance
19:59
davidak
C has some problems you see in current OSS like openssl
20:00
BAndiT1983
it has to be evaluated how much performance C++ consumes on chip
20:01
Bertl
davidak: what problems do you expect for a REST api?
20:01
BAndiT1983
https://github.com/babelouest/ulfius
20:01
davidak
someone hacks your camera because of buffer overflows and stuff
20:02
davidak
not sure if that is important here
20:02
Bertl
well, they don't need a buffer overflow to hack it? :)
20:02
BAndiT1983
you should only allow specific things, to overcome that problems or even prevent them
20:02
alexML_
I like the idea of Rust, just that it doesn't seem the easiest thing to learn
20:02
BAndiT1983
hack an open-source camera :D this has funny side to it
20:04
se6astian
enough brainstorming?
20:04
BAndiT1983
the list is long enough, i think
20:04
Bertl
yeah, I don't have a problem with Rust either ... I'm just worried that we will not find a Rust hacker :)
20:04
davidak
or someone to maintain it later
20:04
BAndiT1983
we should use languages which have established over years
20:05
niemand
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20:05
niemand
left the channel
20:05
niemand
joined the channel
20:06
se6astian
so now we need to break it down
20:06
se6astian
each idea needs a mentor
20:06
Bertl
okay, so I propose we create 'new' tasks for each of them in the Lab with a common structure
20:06
se6astian
I would do that after we made a selection
20:06
Bertl
and incorporate old tasks with similar/related stuff
20:07
se6astian
each idea for google needs
20:07
Bertl
well, we don't want to lose any of those ideas, no?
20:07
se6astian
for ourselves, sure
20:07
Bertl
we can still cherry pick those for GSoC
20:07
se6astian
ok
20:08
se6astian
please make a note in the google doc if you can think of mentoring any of these projects
20:08
Bertl
alexML_: the problem with overlays is that they come in different flavors
20:08
Bertl
zebra or peaking or similar is best done in the FPGA in realtime
20:09
Bertl
basically when the data passes by
20:09
alexML_
yes; I meant zebras and peaking are very similar in the backend, so they can be grouped in a single project
20:10
Spirit532
are they though?
20:10
Bertl
stuff like frames or grids too, they do not even need input data
20:10
Spirit532
I mean, they're both LPF/HPF
20:10
comradekingu
Could add some shadows from the camera onto the backdrop?
20:10
Bertl
but user elements, info, graphs, etc should be handled by a framebuffer overlay
20:10
niemand
That's music to my ears... :)
20:13
se6astian
Andrej are there any other tasks/subprojects for opencine that you can think of?
20:14
BAndiT1983
i also could supervise the REST API
20:14
se6astian
great
20:14
BAndiT1983
just don't know at the moment where it should be put, as i haven't looked in the camera code yet
20:14
Bertl
a few tasks require that we provide hardware to work on/with
20:15
se6astian
BAndiT1983: dont worry about that
20:15
Bertl
we should color code them or similar
20:15
se6astian
agreed
20:15
BAndiT1983
can it be surpassed by emulation?
20:16
Bertl
some parts maybe, others hardly
20:16
Bertl
but it shouldn't be a problem to provide the required hardware from our side
20:16
comradekingu
Btw, the oshwa cert is no longer self-certification, and it costs money. Im pretty sure they own the blue gear logo and use it for that
20:16
BAndiT1983
depends on the location of the student
20:17
BAndiT1983
or do you want to carry it over to himalayas ;)
20:17
davidak
comradekingu: we are officially certified :)
20:17
comradekingu
oh ok
20:17
davidak
AT01 i think
20:17
comradekingu
How about including some test shot imagery, there was a nice video of some trees yesterday, could use a still from that
20:18
BAndiT1983
Sebastian, you can include me for the API tasks, is just software after all
20:18
comradekingu
It is a bit "concept art" CGI heavy atm
20:18
Spirit532
I'd love to contribute a lot, but I can't afford a beta right now
20:19
Bertl
se6astian: which reminds me that the OSHWA cert logo should be on the flyer as well, probably also OSHpark
20:19
Spirit532
though most of it doesn't require hardware
20:20
davidak
Bertl: we have the open source hardware logo, maybe replace that?
20:20
davidak
else it would be redundant
20:20
Bertl
I would mark the typical FPGA parts separately (not as requires hardware)
20:20
se6astian
Bertl: noted
20:20
Bertl
because FPGA/HDL designs can and should be tested with simulations
20:21
se6astian
davidak: noted
20:21
Bertl
of course, the final code will be integrated and tested on real hardware as well
20:21
davidak
Bertl: for that you could provide ssh access to betas you have
20:21
Bertl
yes, that's the idea
20:22
davidak
if some studen't don't needs it all the time
20:22
comradekingu
All the logos are for the initiated. It would be good to provide some starter info, cheif among which is the copyleft logo, which is instantly recognisable as not standard copyright
20:22
Bertl
we have had a working setup for a remote Beta some time ago
20:22
BAndiT1983
time for jenkins CI i think
20:22
Bertl
so that seems to be doable and reasonable
20:22
se6astian
Bertl: please mark the tasks that are FPGA related but do not require special hardware
20:23
niemand
BAndiT1983, for the FPGA part or other code?
20:23
Bertl
with the symbol I do not see except for a binary code :)
20:23
davidak
BAndiT1983: i have used Drone CI the last days, it's really simple like Travis
20:23
davidak
(i don't like Jenkins because it's too complicated)
20:23
BAndiT1983
jenkins 2.0 is really good
20:24
se6astian
Bertl: yes that one :)
20:24
BAndiT1983
CI would be good to gather the code and to test automatically on hardware, like nightly build with flashing and testing
20:24
comradekingu
se6astian: Can it be RYF licensed?
20:25
Bertl
I don't see why not?
20:26
Bertl
we don't do any DRM and we do not actively support it in the hardware/software AFAIK
20:26
se6astian
moving ideas/projects out now who do no have a mentor
20:27
davidak
should we scrap node/Python API in favor of native language?
20:27
davidak
or do you mean a client for the API?
20:27
Bertl
I think a python interface would still be a good idea
20:28
Bertl
but it can either be a wrapper of a common C library
20:28
Bertl
or already a REST client
20:28
BAndiT1983
both would be good
20:28
comradekingu
I really like this folding orange thing on the logo https://www.apertus.org/sites/default/files/logo-history.jpg
20:28
davidak
when we have REST we can connect with every language
20:28
BAndiT1983
what about performance?
20:30
BAndiT1983
i would suggest REST and some "native" API, e.g. Python
20:30
davidak
what about Elmyra? could Simon mentor some tasks of it?
20:32
Bertl
some of the tasks can also be formulated in different levels of complexity
20:32
Bertl
for example, the sensor simulation for me has three different levels
20:32
Bertl
easy: create a simple test data stream like from the cmv* sensor
20:33
Bertl
medium: simulate the data and timing behaviour of the sensor including data related registers
20:33
Bertl
hard: create a full fledged simulation which can be put into a separate FPGA
20:34
Bertl
similar is true for most of the FPGA related parts
20:35
se6astian
gotta leave now for dinner....
20:35
davidak
students could work as a team
20:35
BAndiT1983
have a nice meal
20:35
se6astian
I gave you edit access
20:35
se6astian
to continue the list
20:35
Bertl
okay, let's take a short break ... I could use something to eat as well
20:35
davidak
same
20:35
se6astian
next step is adding one lab task per idea with brief description and a list of prerequisites, description of programming skills needed and estimation of difficulty level.
20:36
Bertl
can we continue in half an hour or so?
20:36
davidak
ok
20:36
BAndiT1983
by the way node.js and REST go together, if i interpret my google searches correctly
20:36
BAndiT1983
alright
20:37
davidak
BAndiT1983: of course you CAN do that but is it good for our use case in embedded hardware?
20:38
BAndiT1983
depends on what do you want to achieve through it
20:38
davidak
take a picture just now?
20:39
davidak
like tethered shooting
20:39
BAndiT1983
which MCU is used at the moment?
20:39
slikdigit
joined the channel
20:39
davidak
what is MCU?
20:39
BAndiT1983
microcontroller unit
20:40
BAndiT1983
sorry, use this abbreviation since my student years
20:41
davidak
what microcontroller do you mean?
20:41
BAndiT1983
i think the Zynq®-7000
20:41
davidak
Zynq 7020
20:41
BAndiT1983
have looked up the tech specs of beta
20:42
BAndiT1983
usually people use like node.js or python to get REST on their embedded hardware
20:42
BAndiT1983
node.js seems to be faster
20:42
Spirit532
javascript on embedded hardware = death
20:42
Spirit532
or anything involving java
20:43
BAndiT1983
here is also node.js as example for some Zync present -> https://docs.resin.io/installing/gettingStarted-Zynq-ZC702/
20:43
BAndiT1983
???
20:43
BAndiT1983
you know that javascript and java are 2 different things? node.js is based in Google V8 and is driven by C++
20:43
Spirit532
it has the letters in it
20:44
BAndiT1983
we should forbid the letter -> J, V and A as they are evil :D
20:44
BAndiT1983
*leters
20:44
BAndiT1983
*letters
20:45
niemand
running javascript on a mcu seems awkward
20:46
BAndiT1983
on camera-side we could implement in C++, client-side doesn't really matter then
20:46
BAndiT1983
just tell it your smartphone with Android ;)
20:47
niemand
Keep the number of software which needs to be updated and maintained low, to reduce the effort needed
20:47
dimaursu16
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dimaursu16
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dimaursu16
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20:49
davidak
also remember we need maintainers
20:49
BAndiT1983
it's always a balance act between usability and maintenance, we should decide what's important for the remote control
20:50
davidak
if we get a student that likes Rust and provide amazing code, we still need someone to maintain it in the future
20:50
davidak
i'm not sure how much people are good C programmers
20:50
niemand
and someone who reviews the code in the first place :)
20:50
Spirit532
C is universal
20:51
BAndiT1983
i can review the code if necessary, it's almost my daily task in my job
20:51
Spirit532
and when you aren't here?
20:51
niemand
yes, for rust that's not so easy I think (tough I agree that would be great actually)
20:51
BAndiT1983
what's so great about rust?
20:52
Bertl
a systems programming language that runs blazingly fast, prevents segfaults, and guarantees thread safety.
20:52
BAndiT1983
but there has to be some trade-offs, or not?
20:52
Bertl
well, it's not trivial to read/write :)
20:53
BAndiT1983
the syntax is not to my liking, but my area is object oriented, so i'm biased
20:53
davidak
i think it's just a modern language and C is very oldâ¦
20:53
niemand
which is the same for c, but we are all used to c because we have been raised with it
20:53
BAndiT1983
:D instead of milk?
20:53
niemand
I (tried to) answer to Bertl^^
20:54
BAndiT1983
don't underestimate C, it's still very good
20:55
BAndiT1983
and i'm looking forward to C++17
20:56
Spirit532
left the channel
20:56
Bertl
yeah, well, I'm not against Rust per se, but C and gcc is already installed, and Rust seems to come with its own install/update tool (that seems to be modern as well :)
20:57
BAndiT1983
do we have C++ support?
20:57
BAndiT1983
just asking in case we would use some REST lib
20:57
GrahamM
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20:58
Bertl
personally I don't like C++ very much, if you want to go object oriented, use a truly object oriented language not a hack :)
20:58
davidak
one point is also that you can code faster in Ruby, Python and i think Go than C or C++
20:58
BAndiT1983
i disagree with that sentence ;)
20:58
Bertl
or do it like the Linux Kernel and code object oriented without language support
20:58
niemand
That cargo bullshit in rust is really disgusting
20:59
BAndiT1983
faster execution depends on many things, especially first execution can take much longer
20:59
niemand
before I start ranting, i'm off
20:59
davidak
(I'm not really a programmer. just know python and perl ;))
21:00
BAndiT1983
i fell outnumbered by hardware guys somehow ;)
21:00
davidak
what i know is that Go software is amazing since the programmers are very entusiastic about it :)
21:00
BAndiT1983
maybe another hipster thing
21:00
davidak
like Syncthing, Grafana, ...
21:01
davidak
BAndiT1983: when it result's in good software i think it is good :)
21:02
BAndiT1983
it also depends on the usage case, imho
21:02
davidak
and i see no one want's to take care of old openssl code
21:02
BAndiT1983
is it bleeding again?
21:02
davidak
not yet
21:02
intracube_afk
changed nick to: intracube
21:02
BAndiT1983
what's the matter with it?
21:03
davidak
but who knows what bugs there are
21:03
BAndiT1983
every software has a lot of bugs, if you search thouroughly
21:03
BAndiT1983
i see that openssl is progressing and there was new release a couple of days ago
21:03
davidak
but there are always the same problems with C code that you don't have with Rust or Go (i think)
21:04
BAndiT1983
that's a complicated topic, the language does not guarantee that thing
21:05
davidak
i'm not sure if you could call C still sustainable
21:05
BAndiT1983
i've seen people writing in C#, like they were used to in C, and it was very awkward and slow
21:05
niemand
left the channel
21:06
BAndiT1983
C is still number one, at least according to TIOBE rating
21:07
davidak
that is not the point
21:07
davidak
Java is also used very often
21:07
davidak
i'm interested what language results in good software
21:07
BAndiT1983
yes, but i meant it more in hardware development related way
21:08
BAndiT1983
language is just a tool for that, the developer creates good software, at least one with enough experience
21:09
davidak
when you have to write more code in C for the same task than you can have more bugs in it
21:09
BAndiT1983
what do you think, how many times i'm writing ranting mails to remote engineers about bad programming
21:09
arpu
left the channel
21:09
davidak
and a language can prevent bugs, like Bertl said Rust prevents segfaults and is thread save
21:09
BAndiT1983
but the trade-off is performacne for example
21:10
davidak
so there are some advantages in some languages
21:10
BAndiT1983
yes and also disadvantages too
21:10
BAndiT1983
i could get C# to leak memory, although it has garbage collector, if one uses the language wrong, then it will result in mess
21:10
Bertl
okay, so let's continue with the task at hand (pun intented)
21:10
davidak
is there a performance issue with Rust or Go?
21:11
Bertl
let's break the task list down and get some descriptions and classifications done
21:12
BAndiT1983
just to finalize the discussion for now -> http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/rust.html
21:13
BAndiT1983
you can also select comparison to Go at the bottom
21:15
BAndiT1983
we should create the tasks, respectively sub-tasks for each difficulty, in Lab
21:15
Bertl
so a quick grep/wc (not so easy with a google doc) gives meL
21:16
Bertl
7 Alex, 5 Andrej, 14 Herbert and 1 Sebastian
21:16
Bertl
(note that there are overlaps)
21:17
BAndiT1983
overlaps are welcome, as there could be emergency cases and one mentor is away for the moment
21:17
Bertl
which tells me, that we probably have to drop a bunch of 'my' tasks to stay realistic
21:17
Bertl
yes, I think we definitely take all tasks which have overlaps
21:17
Bertl
i.e. where there is more than one mentor
21:18
se6astian
back
21:19
BAndiT1983
hm, not many overlaps
21:19
Bertl
so those three would be the ones then
21:20
BAndiT1983
not good we need more
21:20
BAndiT1983
i could overlook also the firmware tasks, have my experience from MCU programming with assembler and C
21:20
Bertl
I think the kernel driver tasks are probably very appealing for GSoC folks
21:21
BAndiT1983
it would be interesting for me also
21:21
Bertl
to do or to mentor?
21:21
BAndiT1983
both ;), but its gsoc, so mentor first
21:21
Bertl
so maybe we should simply vote for the tasks?
21:22
Bertl
and please feel free to add yourself as mentor
21:22
davidak
(is the time also payd for the mentor?)
21:22
Bertl
not from google, AFAIK
21:22
se6astian
google also has some recommendations about the projects/ideas
21:22
se6astian
Low-hanging fruit: These projects require minimal familiarity with the codebase and basic technical knowledge. They are relatively short, with clear goals.
21:23
se6astian
google pays 500$ to the org for every mentored student
21:23
se6astian
I would propose we forward that money to the mentors
21:23
Bertl
really
21:23
Bertl
so that is not too bad then
21:23
BAndiT1983
we have to do some preparation, that was just an underestimation, a lot of preparation
21:23
se6astian
well its 3 months of work for 500$ :)
21:23
davidak
:D
21:23
se6astian
Risky/Exploratory: These projects push the scope boundaries of your development effort. They might require expertise in an area not covered by your current development team. They might take advantage of a new technology. There is a reasonable chance that the project might be less successful, but the potential rewards make it worth the attempt.
21:24
se6astian
Fun/Peripheral: These projects might not be related to the current core development focus, but create new innovations and new perspective for your project.
21:24
Bertl
we will live like kings!! :)
21:24
se6astian
Core development: These projects derive from the ongoing work from the core of your development team. The list of features and bugs is never-ending, and help is always welcome.
21:24
se6astian
Infrastructure/Automation: These projects are the code that your organization uses to get its development work done; for example, projects that improve the automation of releases, regression tests and automated builds. This is a category in which a GSoC student can be really helpful, doing work that the development team has been putting off while they focus on core development.
21:24
se6astian
The project you propose will define the tone and scope of your organization's participation in GSoC. It is a key part of your organization's application. Further, it may be the first impression made on a potential student applicant.
21:24
BAndiT1983
i want to see how Bertl tries to pay his rent from GsoC :D
21:25
se6astian
so we should have a bit of everything
21:25
Bertl
I think we have
21:25
se6astian
so lets start with the lab tasks
21:26
se6astian
https://lab.apertus.org/T722
21:27
se6astian
prerequisites, description of programming skills needed and estimation of difficulty level.
21:27
BAndiT1983
will we base it on Stephans new algorithm also or is it not public currently?
21:27
se6astian
we can discuss this with stephan
21:28
Bertl
let's push out a few tasks with different mentors at a time
21:28
se6astian
but there are many things to try with debayering
21:28
se6astian
Bertl, alexML_ please edit the QEMU emulation for the Beta hardware (e.g. boot the custom Arch Linux, take a “fake” picture with cmv_snap) - hard (low-level) (Mentor: Alex, but also need Herbert’s advice)
21:28
se6astian
task
21:29
se6astian
BAndiT1983: please edit the debayering task description
21:29
Bertl
which task is the QEMU one?
21:29
BAndiT1983
i'm on to it at the moment, have to reflect a bit
21:30
se6astian
great
21:30
se6astian
Bertl: could you imagine being backup mentor for the Lens Control task?
21:30
Bertl
why not
21:31
alexML_
Bertl: QEMU is T724
21:31
Bertl
se6astian: but you should talk to the Sebastian guy, he doesn't want to mentor much :)
21:31
Bertl
alexML_: TX
21:34
Bertl
alexML_: so what prerequisites does that task have?
21:39
alexML_
I'd say C, ARM assembly, ability to find one's way around a huge C codebase (QEMU)
21:39
BAndiT1983
very advanced task
21:39
alexML_
yes
21:40
BAndiT1983
but you would point in the right direction, so the difficulty could be reduced
21:41
alexML_
correct; here's where we are with emulating Canon firmwares in QEMU: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2864.100
21:42
se6astian
alexML_: please review: https://lab.apertus.org/T726
21:42
alexML_
basically enough to boot the GUI on some models and also emulate image capture (enough to get raw image data in a buffer from a DNG)
21:42
BAndiT1983
i'm still waiting for eos760d ;) but i don't have time to help to develop it currently
21:42
se6astian
from RAM perspective would the darkframe processing work inside the camera?
21:42
se6astian
in raw2dng
21:43
alexML_
darkframe creation?
21:44
alexML_
yes, it uses an accumulator to average the frames
21:44
alexML_
could be even accelerated by FPGA
21:44
Bertl
se6astian: is that sufficient for QSoC? https://lab.apertus.org/T724
21:45
se6astian
alexML_: great
21:46
se6astian
Bertl: looks good, google lists Prerequisites and programming skills separately but its a gray area I guess
21:47
Bertl
okay, then let's move on to the next one, we can still refine it lateron
21:47
BAndiT1983
i've adjusted the T722
21:47
davidak
can we add a "Your Own Idea" task like https://community.kde.org/GSoC/2016/Ideas#Project:_Something_that_you.27re_totally_excited_about
21:48
davidak
this way we could also get interesting ideas :)
21:48
davidak
to implement ourselves later
21:49
se6astian
good idea
21:49
Bertl
"surprise us!"
21:50
davidak
finally implement that helicopter with the fan
21:50
se6astian
added
21:50
davidak
then we have a drone
21:50
Bertl
alexML_: I'll do a quick structure for T725 now
21:54
se6astian
we will receive students applications and mentors will pick their students from it
21:54
se6astian
if they want a drone the chance they will be accepted by anyone of us is rather small I guess
21:54
se6astian
the ideas/projects they pick are part of the application
21:56
Bertl
alexML_: please extend T725
21:57
BAndiT1983
jsut PWM the fan high enough for that task :D
21:57
se6astian
its a great low hanging fruit
21:58
davidak
it was a great feature of the alpha
21:58
se6astian
T275: we will need a working off the shelf camera/lens assembly to eavesdrop on
22:00
BAndiT1983
for such info? -> https://nikonhacker.com/wiki/Lens_Serial_Interface
22:01
se6astian
yes lets collect references as well in the task description
22:01
se6astian
there is lots of such information already on the internet
22:01
se6astian
about different lenses/systems
22:01
BAndiT1983
yes, on MagicLantern forum :D
22:01
se6astian
I am sure the entire task could be solved by just collecting google search information :)
22:02
BAndiT1983
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=3796.0
22:05
alexML_
https://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=18308 (very good docs)
22:06
Bertl
I've created T728, please somebody check
22:10
se6astian
made headers bold and added beta software project tag
22:11
davidak
should we improve the organisation of code and stuff before students search for them?
22:12
se6astian
you mean github?
22:12
davidak
and make sure the latest changes are pushed
22:12
davidak
for example
22:12
se6astian
wouldnt hurt of course
22:12
davidak
i think much is in the wiki or somewhere else...
22:14
BAndiT1983
yeah, we have to prepare separate branches for gsoc, imho
22:14
davidak
if we use GitHub the students can create Pull Requests
22:14
davidak
from their own branch
22:15
BAndiT1983
so they should fork?
22:15
se6astian
yes
22:15
se6astian
thats the standard method to commit own changes
22:15
se6astian
fork, push, merge
22:15
davidak
at least on GitHub
22:15
se6astian
yes
22:15
se6astian
ok I gotta leave for today
22:15
se6astian
I think we are progressing very well
22:15
se6astian
deadline tomorrow 18:00
22:15
davidak
yes
22:16
se6astian
but I leave office at 17:00
22:16
se6astian
then I will have to submit the application
22:16
BAndiT1983
alright, i will try to be before that time at home
22:16
se6astian
of course we can still make changes to our lab
22:16
se6astian
but we do not know if google pulls a static html page from the application process
22:16
se6astian
or if a physical person accesses it at a later point
22:16
se6astian
so we better have everything ready tomorrow
22:17
Bertl
what if a virtual person accesses it at a later point? :)
22:17
BAndiT1983
this would be the year 2035
22:17
se6astian
and what if a vertical person does that?!
22:18
Bertl
we have to add some colors ...
22:19
davidak
also take a moment and think how a students firtst impressiom would be with what we have
22:20
davidak
don't assume they know stuff, link to more information about our project etc
22:20
davidak
it is also a way to promote our vision
22:26
Bertl
definitely
22:29
RexOrCine
Whats the project assignment list called?
22:29
Bertl
hmm?
22:30
RexOrCine
The ideas list, whats it referred to inside GSoC?
22:30
RexOrCine
referred to as*
22:30
Bertl
no idea
22:30
RexOrCine
It was mentioned by someone at one point.
22:31
BAndiT1983
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n7BxN4UFok-JP47zsJ2w6oAErJ1aFpHtssCNx4dB9P0/edit#
22:31
BAndiT1983
this one?
22:32
RexOrCine
Yeah. se6astian might know. I think the term might have been laid out........
22:33
RexOrCine
Ah, workboard?
22:33
RexOrCine
Must be.
22:34
Bertl
I think that might be the term phabricator uses
22:34
RexOrCine
Ah.
22:34
RexOrCine
It'll be in the application stipulations.
22:36
BAndiT1983
left the channel
22:42
comradekingu
Do get the "obselete" changed to "obsolete"
22:57
Bertl
I'm off to bed now ... have a good one everyone! thanks for the QSoC help!
22:57
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
22:58
davidak
good night Bertl
23:17
Rex0r
comradekingu - Where's this?
23:17
Rex0r
Flyer?
23:22
Rex0r
Ah. I see. The Nofilmschool quote.
23:29
comradekingu
Rex0r: It is in the quote on a few of the images
23:29
comradekingu
yesyes
23:36
se6astian
off to bed as well
23:36
se6astian
good night
23:36
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
23:55
jucar
joined the channel
23:57
dimaursu16
left the channel