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01:34 | Even | Bertl_zZ: sorry got lost in time.. 3d modeling/cad actions =) sure i can send you the tablet but it should be the same price if you order it from austria (eu). the only thing that might differ is the shipment price to austria?! 5-10€? correct me if i'm wrong =)
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01:36 | Even | gotta hit the sack as well. good night
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06:14 | Bertl_zZ | changed nick to: Bertl
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06:14 | Bertl | morning folks!
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06:49 | Gegsite | mrnng
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07:43 | Bertl | morning philippej!
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07:57 | Bertl | off for now ... bbl
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07:57 | Bertl | changed nick to: Bertl_oO
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08:31 | danieel | Bertl_oO: why are these things apples and oranges? you can pretty nicely compare IIS with Apache, and xrite i1display with ColorHug ... one shall be not afraid of comparison of oss with proprietary systems
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08:44 | danieel | would like to see some specs for the beta module interface - when is that planned to be released?
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08:48 | danieel | regnirps: a color wheel coupled with bw sensor seems to be interesting also in terms of color science - if your subject is steady, you could make basically a 2D colorimeter with lighting the scene with narrow band lights (leds, or lasers) to get a lot better colors (using more than 3 primaries)
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08:54 | pizthewiz | Has there been any discussion of what image processing operations will be performed on the FPGA? I am guessing exposure, temperature, white balance, but hoping we can jump in and implement our own, no?
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09:00 | mars_ | pizthewiz: basically you can do whatever you like on the fpga frontend
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09:01 | pizthewiz | Very exciting indeed, I took a quick look at the wiki but didn't see much mention - is there some documentation I'm skipping over?
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09:03 | mars_ | i guess, for the beta there will be much more information online. the alpha was more or less a proof of concept
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09:03 | mars_ | but you can browse the vhdl code for the alpha online
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09:04 | mars_ | and of course, all the source coe for the beta will be available online too
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09:04 | mars_ | +d
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09:05 | mars_ | so can extend/alter the code and create your own firmware
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09:06 | pizthewiz | Great, I'll have a bit more of a think about it in the morning and might jump on the campaign in its waning moments then.
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09:07 | mars_ | you are welcome :)
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09:07 | pizthewiz | I haven't done any image processing on an FPGA but have a fair amount of CPU and shader experience, it'll be interesting to see what sorts of things are doable in a reasonable timeframe
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09:07 | pizthewiz | Thank you!
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09:11 | mars_ | if you have more in-depth questions about the fpga, you should ask Bertl_oO, he is our fpga whiz
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09:18 | pizthewiz | From a high-level, I have a shader pipeline I'm running on captured content as a post-process, a mix of corrective and artistic look and I'm thinking through what if any of that could be moved to the FPGA.
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09:35 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
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09:35 | se6astian | good morning
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09:45 | danieel | morning... se6astian do you thing there will be a specs for beta add on modules released soon?
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10:10 | se6astian | danieel: what addon module idea did you have in mind?
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10:15 | danieel | high speed output for native res raw
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10:16 | se6astian | what interface standard would that be?
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10:25 | danieel | mechanical constraints will define that
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10:27 | Bertl_oO | changed nick to: Bertl
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10:28 | Bertl | the specs will be released as soon as we fix the interface
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10:32 | Bertl | welcome mikea!
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10:48 | Nikolay | Hi
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10:49 | Nikolay | When will the sales of this camera?
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10:51 | se6astian | Hi Nikolay, the crowdfunding campaign runs for another 45 hours
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10:52 | se6astian | https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/axiom-beta-the-first-open-digital-cinema-camera/x/5022798
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10:56 | Bertl | the Beta will be completed in Q1 next year, and we will probably start selling it in Q2/Q3
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11:13 | Gegsite | so I guess the end will be <15.000€
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11:13 | Nikolay | Se6astian, In Russia, it will be possible to order?
| 11:18 | Gegsite | meant 115.000€
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11:19 | Bertl | Nikolay: yes, I do not see why not
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11:20 | Nikolay | Ok
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11:20 | Nikolay | Thank you
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11:20 | Bertl | Gegsite: how so?
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11:20 | Bertl | Nikolay: you're welcome!
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11:23 | Gegsite | I looking the campain
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11:23 | danieel | Bertl: because of customs office, you will have a lot of fun with them :)
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11:23 | Nikolay | Thought sanctions simply)))))
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11:25 | Nikolay | Sorry for the bad english)
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11:25 | Bertl | no problem, we'll manage to communicate
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11:26 | Bertl | well, I guess we will find a way ...
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11:29 | Nikolay | =))))
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11:30 | Nikolay | нуы
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11:30 | Nikolay | ой yes
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11:31 | Bertl | welcome ch3f!
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11:32 | rceed | yo
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11:32 | rceed | people
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12:40 | PhilippeJ | By the way, I had this crazy idea last night, that might be interesting to some. Reading this : http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2014/10/06/the-skeptics-guide-to-low-fidelity-prototyping/ I think we could ask people to build their own dream camera using low fidelity prototyping technique. Nintendo example here : http://www.smashingmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/nintendo-low-fidelity-prototyping.jpg
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13:27 | se6astian | funny comment on the NFS article
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13:27 | se6astian | "It looks promising. but remember Red One took about 2 years after release to become stable and that's with the backing of a billion dollar company. This may be digital bolex but better, but again, I unfortuately long for the days where the camera comes out then you buy it - not crowdsourcing the money from random people. I think Ouya and other tech released this way has disappointed many and the ability to raise millions this way is more and
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13:28 | se6astian | a few minutes later: "I take back everything I said - this is an exciting project and a worthwhile investment if the camera can deliver. This is the future - the internet and crowdfunding and how new technology can be made not with the support of bigger hands but with young smart talent. I think this could be a hit product - but of course, meet all new ideas that aren't out yet with healthy skepticism.
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13:31 | mars_ | nobody knows where the money for the ouya went. apparently not into the hardware
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13:31 | mars_ | or anything technical
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14:14 | se6astian | they showed a big office with lots of glass walls in their crowdfunding video :)
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14:14 | se6astian | bet that was expensive
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14:15 | mars_ | :D
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14:22 | Bertl | they probably ran out of money right after they bought the office :)
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14:32 | aombk | why? isnt ouya out yet?
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14:33 | comradekingu | random people... i think these, and myself included are very low entrophy people
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14:36 | mars_ | aombk: it is, but it's a joke
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14:36 | aombk | wont you be buying big offices with lots of glass walls?
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14:36 | mars_ | low quality, bad engineering
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14:37 | Bertl | yeah, I think we should get big offices with wall sized virtual windows
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14:38 | comradekingu | i only saw ouya outside E3 on the parking lot with a stand
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14:38 | comradekingu | not that i was there, but that seems low-budget enough
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14:39 | aombk | crowd funding is loosing peoples trust because of many bad projects
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14:39 | aombk | you can call some of them scams
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14:41 | mars_ | that's sad but true
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14:41 | Bertl | well, I guess that is like everywhere else, you have a small group of individuals who abuse the system (or create mistrust and bad reputation)
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14:43 | aombk | its not sad for me i never really liked crowd funding
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14:46 | aombk | and i dont think its a small group of individuals that abuse the system
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14:46 | aombk | the system has abuse built in
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14:47 | aombk | inherits it to the users
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14:51 | Bertl | maybe ...
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14:51 | Bertl | anyway, have to take a short nap ... bbl
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14:52 | Bertl | changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
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15:06 | se6astian | some people expressed concern about our plans because of how the digital bolex development went after their crowdfunding
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15:07 | se6astian | funny that I had exactly this fear the day they launched their campaign and I saw their plans
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15:08 | se6astian | anyway
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15:08 | se6astian | gotta go too :)
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15:08 | se6astian | see you
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15:14 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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16:33 | regnirps | danieel: Had not thought about it in a long time, but with monochrome sensor you could even illuminate with a continuous source (incandescent) throuh a monochromator and take as amny spectral slices as you want. Or a continuous dichroic color wheel and get th color data pretty quickly at high frame rate.
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17:06 | Bertl_zZ | changed nick to: Bertl
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17:06 | Bertl | back now ...
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17:48 | dmjnova | woot! stretch goal 2 funded!
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17:48 | mars_ | yeah!
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17:54 | aombk | nice!
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17:55 | aombk | what about stretch goal 4?
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17:59 | aombk | what shall it be?
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18:06 | comradekingu | aombk: hotshoe with viewfinder?
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18:08 | gocooldawg | hello everyone! awesome project and would love to help out!
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18:09 | gocooldawg | specifically hardware/FPGA design
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18:09 | mars_ | hey gocooldawg!
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18:10 | gocooldawg | hey bert1! sebastien asked me to get in touch with you.
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18:10 | Bertl | hey gocooldawg! good to hear!
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18:11 | gocooldawg | a little about myself: am an engineer working in USA and have been working on film projects for the last coupla years...
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18:13 | gocooldawg | please let me know how i can help. thanks!
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18:13 | Bertl | sounds good! yeah, there is a lot of stuff which can be done, especially in the hardware/FPGA area
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18:14 | Bertl | did you take a look at the AXIOM alpha hardware/software yet?
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18:16 | gocooldawg | have taken a quick look. is there something specific that i should focus on?
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18:16 | Bertl | no, just that you get an idea what we have done so far and how it is designed
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18:17 | Bertl | okay, so where would you like to help out, hardware or FPGA?
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18:18 | g3gg0 | €120,000 - Active Canon EF Mount
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18:18 | Bertl | \o/
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18:18 | g3gg0 | congrats :)
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18:18 | g3gg0 | a lot of work for you ;)
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18:18 | Bertl | indeed
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18:19 | gocooldawg | oh ok. let me look in more detail. i can work on the FPGA more easily being remote and all.
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18:19 | Bertl | no problem, take your time!
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18:20 | Bertl | @FPGA makes sense, what FPGA platforms do you have available?
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18:23 | gocooldawg | i can obtain the xilinx/altera ones. will need to understand what the project specs are, etc. Where is the documentation for the alpha? I have just browsed through this site so far but haven't been able to get a handle on the documentation.
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18:24 | Bertl | https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema
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18:25 | Bertl | the source is the documentation (mostly) we have some software aspects explained on the wiki though
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18:25 | Bertl | https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php?title=AXIOM_Alpha_Software
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18:26 | gocooldawg | ok cool. let me get started on understanding that and i will ping you guys back. is there somebody else who is working on the FPGA that I contact?...i have another colleague at my company who does image processing stuff whom i can bug if needed :)
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18:27 | g3gg0 | which design tool do you use for circuitry?
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18:28 | g3gg0 | dont know .ipt
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18:28 | g3gg0 | ah thats mechanical only
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18:29 | Bertl | yeah, we currently use Eagle, but we plan to switch to KiCad
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18:29 | Bertl | (for schematic/layout)
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18:29 | Bertl | on the FPGA side, we use Vivado for the Zynq
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18:30 | Bertl | (WebPack in commandline mode)
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18:30 | Bertl | we have a number of folks who helped with the FPGA part, I'll make sure to get us all together in the near future
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18:31 | Bertl | gocooldawg: basic coordination and communication is via IRC (you already managed that)
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18:31 | Bertl | second best channel is via eMail (we will have a bug/feature tracker soon)
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18:33 | Bertl | gocooldawg: did you reserve an AXIOM Beta for you already? if so, you might want to get a MicroZed or PicoZed with a Zynq-7020 for FPGA coding/testing
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18:33 | gocooldawg | sounds good. i am new to irc :). I am looking at the RTL files on github and this is something i am super familiar with and can get started esily once i understand more.
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18:33 | gocooldawg | yes, will do that today.
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18:33 | Bertl | great! regarding IRC, you're probably using the web interface, yes?
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18:34 | gocooldawg | yes.
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18:34 | Bertl | there are a number of nice IRC clients out there, which make life a little easier
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18:34 | aombk | https://www.opticsinfobase.org/ao/abstract.cfm?uri=ao-53-13-C14#
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18:34 | Bertl | some with gui, like Pidgin, Xchat, etc and some without, like irssi
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18:35 | aombk | http://www.golem.de/news/bildsensor-chip-sieht-mehr-farben-als-das-menschliche-auge-1410-109655.html
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18:35 | Bertl | gocooldawg: do not hesitate to ask me if something is unclear
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18:36 | Bertl | aombk: looking forward to those sensors, but I guess it will take some time till we see one with proper open documentation
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18:36 | gocooldawg | Bert1: sounds good. let me explore a bit and i will get back to you in a day or two. thanks and am super excited!
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18:39 | Bertl | you're welcome! and we are super excited too!
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18:40 | gocooldawg | Bert1: please add me to the email list. sebastian has my id.
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18:42 | Bertl | simply subscribe to the development list, but I let se6astian know when he is back
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18:43 | Bertl | btw, the character at the end of my nick is a lower case 'L' not a '1'
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18:43 | Bertl | hard to tell apart on most clients, I know ...
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18:44 | gocooldawg | Bertl: oops, sorry :)....will subscribe to the development list
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18:47 | Bertl | no problem, I usually respond to Bert1, Berti and other similar variations as well :)
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19:03 | surami | joined the channel | |
19:03 | Bertl | wb surami!
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19:04 | surami | congrats for the campaign!
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19:04 | Bertl | thanks! and thanks to all who contributed and will contribute!
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19:18 | surami | i have an idea, but i'm not an engineer
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19:19 | Bertl | let's hear
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19:19 | Bertl | all ideas are welcome
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19:20 | surami | but first i have a question
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19:20 | surami | will that remote controll
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19:21 | surami | used for focusing with that potmeters
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19:21 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
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19:21 | surami | i think about that wheels on the left side
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19:21 | Bertl | if there is focus support on the lens, that might be used for this purpose I guess
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19:22 | Bertl | but do not take the image literally, it is an old design
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19:22 | surami | yes i thought that
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19:22 | Bertl | se6astian uploaded an updated image recently (Updates section)
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19:22 | surami | i ask this because
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19:23 | surami | what whould be if some kind of potmeter or i don't know could be connected
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19:23 | surami | to smartphones, tablets etc.
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19:23 | surami | through headphone jack port
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19:23 | surami | like this the lumu: http://www.lu.mu/
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19:24 | Bertl | headphone is probably a little tricky, because it is an output
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19:25 | Bertl | but let's assume there is a solution, maybe with external battery, to connect some kind of device to the smartphones
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19:26 | Bertl | if there is software support, the settings could be relayed to the camera of course
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19:27 | surami | ok, I understand
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19:27 | surami | i'm not a technican
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19:27 | surami | i just thought about it to keep things as simple as it can be
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19:59 | se6astian | I updated the image of the remote controller
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19:59 | se6astian | fresh new rendering :)
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20:11 | regnirps | Nice numbers! Is that total the amount pledged for imediate use, or the total when units ship and the rest of the payments come in? In other words, on a campaign like this how much of that total do you have to work with?
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20:12 | Bertl | we basically have the amount contributed, minus fees, minus buttons, t-shirts and shipping
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20:13 | regnirps | You can take the data to the bank and get a loan on the ballance perhaps? Like a startup showing the financial people that they already have a purchase order?
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20:13 | Bertl | there will be a little additional gain from the 20% off perks
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20:14 | Bertl | we do not plan to take any loans, we work on the money we have available
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20:15 | Bertl | or to be precise, on the resources we have available
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20:15 | Bertl | that's how it usually works in FOSS/OH, and it worked well so far
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20:15 | regnirps | Good deal. Crowdfunding is prety interesting.
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20:17 | regnirps | I likely will not be able to buy in before the period closes but the OS is really attaractive and gives me some ideas. Do you think it will be possible to buy housings and the base electronics to which I can add a specialized sensor?
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20:18 | Bertl | all the parts will be available for purchase in some or the other way
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20:18 | Bertl | and yes, you can design your own special sensor board and attach it to the rest
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20:18 | Bertl | even if it uses some very proprietary sensor :)
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20:18 | regnirps | Very nice. This migth be the solution I need.
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20:20 | regnirps | I have been researchig some very specilized imaging and need to use quartz optics in some and saphire/NaCl optica in another with special sensors. The compact platform would seal the deal.
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20:21 | Bertl | i.e. outside the visible spectrum, yes?
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20:21 | Bertl | (NaCl hints towards IR)
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20:22 | Bertl | (Quartz more to UV)
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20:25 | regnirps | Yes. Very broad spectrum imaging of large areas.
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20:27 | Bertl | welcome niemand!
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20:28 | niemand | hi Bertl
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20:37 | surami | Bertl, do you have any plans to continue the crowdfundig campaign? i think there are many people out there, who heard nothing about this...
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20:38 | niemand | and any plans to provide payment options without Paypal? :)
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20:39 | Bertl | surami: there will always be folks who haven't heard of the Beta
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20:40 | Bertl | we could probably do that forever ...
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20:40 | Bertl | niemand: I'm sure we can arrange something via wiretransfer, as the campaign goal has been reached
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20:40 | niemand | or cash :D
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20:41 | Bertl | yeah, if you meet with me or se6astian in the next 35 hours, why not
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20:42 | Bertl | (for getting a perk, for the camera itself, of course, cash will be an option too)
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20:44 | aombk | will there be a 4th stretch goal?
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20:44 | Bertl | interesting question :)
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20:44 | Bertl | wb KurtAugust!
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20:45 | niemand | well, where can I usually meet you, se6astian ?
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20:45 | niemand | or, private chat
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20:46 | Bertl | I'm currently nearby st.poelten, more precisely laaben
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20:46 | Bertl | se6astian is located in vienna
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20:46 | niemand | bäh
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20:46 | niemand | :)
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20:46 | Bertl | where are you?
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20:47 | Bertl | and yes, probably let's take this private
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20:47 | KurtAugust | Hi! Congrats on the funding! (trying out irc client so I don't need to scroll down the logs all day)
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20:47 | niemand | vienna, that's why I asked for payment per cash :)
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20:47 | Bertl | so se6astian shouldn't be a problem for you
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20:47 | Bertl | KurtAugust: great!
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20:47 | Bertl | and thanks!
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20:48 | Bertl | aombk: check the indiegogo site :)
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20:49 | niemand | btw, saw your exhibit at the MQ
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20:50 | Bertl | excellent! did you like it?
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20:52 | aombk | great stretch goal!
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20:52 | aombk | too bad it wont be reached
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20:58 | niemand | Bertl: well, it looks nice. but to understand what's going on and what's showed some more background is needed
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20:59 | Bertl | ask away, I'll try to answer
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21:00 | Bertl | (doesn't help with the exhibit, but maybe it helps you :)
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21:00 | niemand | but way better than all the other exhibitions from der angewandten
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21:01 | Bertl | glad to hear!
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21:04 | comradekingu | put a questionmark at 150 just to have something in store
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21:08 | aombk | betrl, a usb3 device that uses for example 2 usb3 ports of a laptop has double bandwidth or are there controller bandwidth bottlenecks?
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21:08 | KurtAugust | left the channel | |
21:10 | Bertl | depends on the controller, but usb3 is very complicated (JFYI)
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21:23 | g3gg0 | i worked with USB2 once. would not dare to touch USB3. debugging was hell and with small mistakes in isotransfers it was possible to trash host controller driver on windows.
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21:23 | g3gg0 | but thats a personal decision :D
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21:24 | Bertl | yeah, USB3 in controlled environment (i.e. host and client) is already complicated enough
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21:29 | g3gg0 | definitely
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21:32 | Bertl | wb Gegsite!
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21:33 | Gegsite | Hello Bertl
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21:38 | g3gg0 | hi
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21:39 | Bertl | wb theuberkevlar!
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21:42 | theuberkevlar | howdy!
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21:42 | theuberkevlar | Congrats on the second stretch goal!
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21:43 | Bertl | thanks!
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21:43 | theuberkevlar | Maybe we should do a 180,000 stretch goal for 4k Internal recording. ;)
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21:43 | Bertl | then nobody will want the Gamma :)
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21:45 | theuberkevlar | haha!
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21:45 | theuberkevlar | All the people that didn't get a beta in time will.
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21:46 | KurtAugust | joined the channel | |
21:46 | theuberkevlar | The PC recording solution seems pretty interesting though
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21:46 | Bertl | the 20k perk is still there *hint* :)
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21:48 | KurtAugust | left the channel | |
21:57 | wescotte | hah
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21:57 | theuberkevlar | I'll just sell my car and all of my gear real quick.
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21:57 | theuberkevlar | haha
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22:03 | surami | PC recording solution?
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22:05 | surami | full sensor size in DNG (or maybe MLV) format?
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22:06 | surami | I mean continously video?
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22:08 | se6astian | that would be the plan yes
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22:10 | surami | thats sounds really interesting
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22:13 | surami | in eg. 25 fps it's a huge data, ca. 22 MB * 25 = 550 MB
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22:13 | theuberkevlar | how will the camera hook into the computer for recording? USB 3.0 ?
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22:13 | theuberkevlar | or something else?
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22:13 | surami | and people want 300 fps :D lol
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22:14 | Gegsite | left the channel | |
22:14 | Bertl | most likely not USB 3.0 :)
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22:18 | pizthewiz | left the channel | |
22:22 | pizthewiz | joined the channel | |
22:25 | surami | sata?
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22:25 | theuberkevlar | PCIe?
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22:25 | surami | optical?
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22:25 | theuberkevlar | ethernet?
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22:25 | theuberkevlar | haha
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22:25 | surami | usb 1 x 300? :D
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22:25 | theuberkevlar | hahahahaha
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22:26 | theuberkevlar | 5 inch floppies?
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22:26 | theuberkevlar | laserdisk?
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22:27 | Bertl | options en mass ... we'll see what we come up with :)
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22:28 | Bertl | (if the goal is reached, of course :)
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22:28 | surami | we have to pump up a bit then
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22:29 | surami | is there already some info about this direct PC recording solution on ML forum?
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22:29 | Bertl | the ML folks are here, so maybe, haven't checked yet
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22:30 | surami | if not I'll write, let's check
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22:31 | Bertl | thanks!
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22:31 | wescotte | Is the JP4 format lossless?
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22:33 | g3gg0 | we are experimenting with LJ92 compression. its lossless. dont know much about other good raw compression algorithms
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22:33 | g3gg0 | iirc LJ92 is also used in DNG
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22:34 | g3gg0 | http://thndl.com/how-dng-compresses-raw-data-with-lossless-jpeg92.html
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22:35 | seku | joined the channel | |
22:35 | seku | evenongs
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22:35 | Bertl | evenong seku!
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22:36 | seku | nice new stretch goal. appreciated :D
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22:37 | Bertl | g3gg0: ffv1 might be an option
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22:37 | seku | if we reach that one, we will nearly have a gamma on our hands o.O
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22:38 | seku | ffv1 video codec?
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22:38 | Bertl | we will make the 'Beta' label a sticker, so we can simply switch it to say 'Gamma'
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22:39 | Bertl | :)
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22:39 | Bertl | no, seriously, I think we will learn a lot from the Beta and accompanied development
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22:39 | g3gg0 | Bertl: not sure how good it works with raw bayer data
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22:39 | Bertl | and it will be very beneficial to adjust the Gamma design accordingly
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22:40 | Bertl | g3gg0: no idea here either, but I was thinking doing 4 images per frame
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22:40 | Bertl | i.e. four individual streams
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22:41 | seku | i was just thinking that with stretch goal beta will be more full featured than anyone would have guessed
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22:41 | seku | heck, using my canon glass .... 24-105 and 70-200 IS 2
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22:41 | seku | what a joy
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22:42 | seku | add a 200k goal for a speeedbooster from 35mm cinema to fullframe xD
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22:42 | seku | j/k
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22:43 | Bertl | I think we are done with stretch goals now ... a lot of work ahead of us
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22:43 | seku | much more than planned i imagine :(
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22:44 | seku | *:)
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22:44 | seku | silly us international blind keyboard
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22:45 | seku | well, if the raw recording stretch goal is reached, you will be in for crazy busy time
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22:47 | Bertl | btw, just googled for speedbooster, to confirm my assumption what that would be, and I've seen Metabones offers that for some mounts
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22:48 | seku | well, that would be head-shakingly crazy... i would get one immediately
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22:48 | seku | if only for the 24-105
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22:51 | seku | i just love that lens. with speedbooster it would be able to stop down to below 3
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22:51 | seku | well, very many fun times ahead :D
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22:52 | seku | hrm... my english deteriorates as the night creeps along
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22:53 | Bertl | don't worry, we still can tell what you're trying to communicate :)
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22:53 | seku | youre very lenient ... sometimes i think it would be easier to just write in german
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22:53 | seku | 2nd foreign language is easier than 4th xD
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22:56 | surami | raw bayer data contains 3 separeted channel or how?
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22:57 | surami | RGB?
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22:57 | Q_ | surami: There are ussually 2 Gs.
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22:58 | seku | wouldnt one combine the G into the same channel?
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22:58 | surami | that's why Bertl wrote 4?
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22:59 | Q_ | Yes.
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22:59 | g3gg0 | usually yes
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22:59 | g3gg0 | there are also cameras that have two different greens
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23:00 | Q_ | Right, but I think most actually have the same green.
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23:00 | g3gg0 | so theoretically you can stretch your gamut a bit
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23:00 | g3gg0 | yeah, only know two cameras that seem to have different G channels
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23:01 | seku | btw, on a grinningly different note ... any effort/interest in dolby vision yet
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23:01 | seku | somewhat feels like a big thing
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23:02 | seku | just asking :)
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23:02 | Bertl | the page suggests something highly proprietary :)
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23:03 | surami | did you saw this, what people are doing in japan? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGD84vkD_mE
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23:03 | seku | arf. that is unfortunate
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23:03 | surami | there are very interesting analyzator machines
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23:03 | surami | converters etc.
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23:03 | seku | 8k is around for a while in japan afaik
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23:04 | Bertl | http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/licensing/apply-license-professional.aspx
| 23:04 | seku | sighs
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23:04 | Bertl | so not an option for us anyway
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23:04 | seku | thats unfortunate
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23:05 | surami | I linked it because of they are working too with separeted channels...
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23:05 | seku | i hope someone will come up with an opensource similar colorspace
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23:05 | surami | not because 8k
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23:05 | seku | sorry surami
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23:06 | surami | np
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23:07 | Q_ | Looking at that dolby vision thing, they just want to increase the brightness?
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23:07 | seku | yes
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23:07 | seku | if i understand correctly its all about increasing apparent contrast and black level via higher brightness
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23:08 | seku | frankly i feel thats needed.... our cameras can do it, so can our displays
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23:08 | seku | no need to be stuck in rec701
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23:09 | Bertl | surami: you are referring to the segmentation, yes?
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23:09 | surami | yes
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23:09 | Bertl | yeah, that's quite common with SDI
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23:09 | seku | ah, i thought you meant color recording segmentation
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23:10 | Bertl | we can do similar with HDMI/DP but there are no recording devices AFAIK
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23:10 | Q_ | You mean Rec709?
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23:10 | seku | sorry yes... tired because of jetlag öD
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23:10 | seku | *:D
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23:11 | surami | what if 4 DNG is generated for the channels?
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23:11 | Q_ | (There is also a 601 and 2020)
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23:11 | surami | and after that we can merge it somehow?
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23:11 | seku | there has been some exceedingly positive reaction to dolby vision by DPs lately... altho that might just be marketing buzz... i dont know
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23:12 | surami | or it's bullshit what i think?
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23:12 | seku | i am dying to see some dolby vision myself
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23:12 | Bertl | surami: yeah, we have a bunch of options there, we'll see what turns out most practicable
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23:12 | surami | okok
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23:12 | seku | but really i would love to see something like dolby vision in open source :)
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23:13 | Bertl | surami: but we will definitely keep it flexible, so that anybody can implement their preferred solution
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23:13 | aombk | will you be adding dolby atmos support?
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23:13 | seku | thats one of the primary reason to save and edit in raw ... you can convert to whatever colorspace later :D
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23:13 | seku | err, atmos is sound_
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23:14 | seku | isnt it?
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23:14 | Bertl | aombk: do you have a well documented chip for that?
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23:14 | Q_ | seku: My screen can do something like 250 cd/m^2, but I find that way too bright and turn it down to something like 100.
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23:14 | surami | Bertl:ok, i understand
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23:14 | seku | Q_, the idea is that you dont show rec709 stuff on a high candela screen, but only the biggest highlights.
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23:15 | Q_ | But it might make sense that for "normal" white you'd use 100 and can go to higher brightness for highlights.
| 23:15 | seku | nods
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23:15 | seku | thus increasing apparent contrast
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23:16 | Q_ | So it's just HDR.
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23:16 | theuberkevlar | left the channel | |
23:16 | aombk | it would be great if beta inputs and outputs looked something like this: http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/marantz-sr7009-sr6009/marantzsr6009rueckseite663x267.jpg
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23:16 | seku | inverse of HDR i think
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23:17 | theuberkevlar | joined the channel | |
23:17 | seku | to me HDR is just compressing high dynamic range into low dyanmic range. whereas the idea of that dolby thing is to really show higher dynamic range on the screen. and let the eyes do the magic
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23:18 | Q_ | The idea would be to not compress it I guess.
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23:18 | seku | the idea is to use the high native dynamic range of our displays and not limit ourselves with rec709
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23:18 | aombk | i think dolby hdr is a marketing thing
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23:19 | Bertl | 125k btw
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23:19 | seku | my beamer can do 50000:1 contrast... and i beg for a colorspace/material to actually use it
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23:19 | g3gg0 | Bertl: reminds me of avalanche effect :)
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23:19 | seku | aombk, agreed. i am not saying axiom should go dolby. i am just hoping for an open source color calibration that allows for similar effects
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23:20 | aombk | like dolby NR on old tape decks
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23:20 | seku | but i think the general idea behind dolby vision is sound
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23:20 | seku | no pun intended
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23:21 | seku | its time to move beyound rec709 or DCI.
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23:21 | Q_ | seku: I think it's just a matter of not having a curve that doesn't compress the highlights, and having a reference level for the white.
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23:21 | seku | it is also a matter of what colorspace you feed the display device
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23:22 | se6astian | time for bed
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23:22 | seku | nächtle, seb
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23:22 | surami | cheers all
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23:23 | Q_ | Rec709 is probably has a limiting colorspace yes, but Rec2020 should be much better.
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23:23 | seku | fully agreed.i shouldnt have been talking about rec709, but about rec2020...
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23:24 | seku | its just that dolby seems to be more known than rec2020 ... my fault :)
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23:25 | surami | left the channel | |
23:25 | se6astian | time for bed
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23:25 | se6astian | good night
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23:25 | aombk | good night
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23:25 | seku | again, nächtle :D
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23:25 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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23:26 | seku | i think that should really pushed as a RAW advantage
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23:26 | aombk | are you going to add a technicolor picture style bertl?
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23:26 | seku | mastering to colorspaces we deem necessary
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23:28 | seku | maybe i rant too much to early :)
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23:28 | seku | *too . gah
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23:30 | aombk | i am sure there will be too much colorspace testing in the open source community with the beta
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23:30 | seku | i hope so too :)
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23:30 | Q_ | seku: Just embed a color profile in it and let whatever displays it convert it? :)
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23:31 | seku | Q_, now thats wishful thinking :D
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23:32 | seku | i am using a 5k beamer. it has an accurate SRGB mode @ 6500k.
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23:32 | seku | then it has some funny cinema, animation, max colorspace, thx, and i dont know what modes
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23:32 | seku | nothing that really maxes out the potential of the beamer tho
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23:33 | Bertl | send it to us, we will make sure to max it out :)
| 23:33 | seku | mumbmles ... there should be a max contrast/max colorspace format. where the player would then take into account the beamer/display max ANSI contrast / max colorspace. and downconvert that to the dipslays best capabilities
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23:34 | seku | Bertl, you are cordially invited to visit. but i wont yet part with my trusty JVC :D
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23:35 | seku | its only 1080p anyway :)
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23:35 | Q_ | 1080p should be more than enough for displaying?
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23:36 | seku | depends. i like sitting 3 meters away from my 3.5 meters screen
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23:36 | seku | i think i could notice 4k :D
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23:36 | Q_ | For some reason I doubt it.
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23:36 | seku | really?
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23:37 | Q_ | Maybe with a 3.5 m screen.
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23:37 | seku | it is closer than a 1:1 sitting distance
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23:37 | Q_ | But why would you want to sit so close to that?
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23:37 | seku | i like sitting close to a big screen.
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23:38 | seku | my guests usually sit 5 meters away
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23:38 | Q_ | Because then can't sit any further away? :)
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23:38 | seku | the only reason i dont have screen miasma is because the beamer is D-ILA (no screendoor effect. pixels are interwoven)
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23:39 | seku | looks crazily nice. but i could use some more resolution :D
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23:39 | seku | mh, i think 6 meters sitting distance is max. but no one wants to sit that far away. because i keep the booze close to my seat :D
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23:41 | seku | i wont get into a resolution debate now... but for myself ... it does matter. 1080p 3,5 meter screen at 3 meters away... or my 2560x1600 screen at 70 cm away. the resolution increase is very noticeable. your mileage may vary
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23:42 | seku | i could use more resolution on both, and will eventually upgrade, when prices seem sensible.
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23:45 | seku | but thats still quite a while off
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23:49 | seku | mh, far way to 150k xD
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23:51 | wescotte | left the channel | |
23:58 | dmjnova | I can easily see screen door on 2k IMAX screens
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00:01 | seku | 2k IMAX is DLP, not D-ILA afaik
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00:01 | seku | d-oéa blurs screendoor, while it is quite prominent in dlp
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00:07 | dmjnova | seku: true
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00:08 | dmjnova | just commenting on the whole seeing greater than 2k resolution thing
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00:16 | FergusL | se6astian|away must be thrilled to have reached the remote control interface stretch goal
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00:17 | seku | we are thrilled too
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00:17 | seku | i wonder what happens if we reach the 150k
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00:17 | seku | some kind of crazily deformed hdmi interface recorder via pcie i guess
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00:18 | seku | the 4k 30hz option in a 1080p60 convoluted video stream maybe :D
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00:27 | __anton__ | joined the channel | |
00:28 | Bertl | wb __anton__!
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00:29 | __anton__ | Bert: Hi :)
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00:29 | g3gg0 | hi
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00:29 | __anton__ | suku: Hi, actually I read there are specifications for external PCIe - specs for cables etc. I haven't seen anything like that in the shops yet, but could it be a nice way to get video into the PC? By having Zynq 7015 talk directly to PCIe controller in your Intel CPU on the PC?
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00:30 | seku | that would be fun. wouldnt that need them crazy reworked drivers tho?
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00:31 | __anton__ | seku: well a new card for the PC would require drivers as well
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00:31 | seku | true :)
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00:31 | g3gg0 | cant it emulate eSATA? ;)
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00:32 | seku | i thought along something similar to the blackmagic intensity range. capable of doing 1080p60
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00:32 | seku | (thus getting is 4k raw 30fps)
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00:33 | seku | just silly ideas tho
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00:35 | g3gg0 | when using 4k*3k res with 25fps and 10bpp pixel depth, it would just hit the 3gbit/s SATA spec. of course you will never reach 3gbit.
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00:36 | seku | for starters id be happy with 4kx2k :)
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00:36 | g3gg0 | there is still room due to the latest sata standards, going up to 6 or even 8gbits
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00:36 | seku | mh, nearly 2am. work shall be harsh tomorrow. and i am still jetlagged
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00:36 | seku | s-ata express? xD
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00:37 | g3gg0 | yes, then we are pcie again
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00:37 | g3gg0 | people will have fun with designing and fine tuning the pcb ;)
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00:38 | seku | very much fun indeed... i have no clue about pcie design issues but i can guess the high frequency parts wont be easy
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00:38 | g3gg0 | i bet this gets quite esoteric
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00:39 | seku | but i guess if the camera wants to go 4k raw... even at 25fps uncompressed its a major challenge
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00:39 | seku | not even mentionning 300fps xD
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00:39 | g3gg0 | 300fps is not meant at 4k streaming
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00:39 | seku | i wonder if it wouldnt be cheaper to just put 64gigs ram on the cam as buffer for 300fps and let it that way öD
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00:40 | g3gg0 | sure, how many seconds? :)
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00:40 | g3gg0 | 10 sec or so
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00:40 | g3gg0 | ok maybe a bit more
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00:41 | seku | 6.3 gigs per second
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00:41 | seku | quite accurate
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00:41 | seku | but still... 10 seconds at 300fps is a LOT
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00:41 | g3gg0 | heh, nice. "a bit" is 0.2 seconds more :)
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00:41 | g3gg0 | true indeed
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00:41 | seku | especially for the low low price of 64 gigs of ram
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00:42 | g3gg0 | but accessing that huge amount of ram...
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00:42 | Bertl | depends on the ram
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00:42 | Bertl | 64Gbyte of static memory is not cheap :)
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00:42 | seku | dumping the ram wouldnt need to be realtime i guess
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00:42 | g3gg0 | sdram controller implementation on fpga for 64GiB RAM...
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00:43 | seku | mh, i put 32 gigs of ecc ddr3 into my fileserver for fun
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00:43 | seku | its not that expensive :D
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00:43 | g3gg0 | SRAM != SDRAM
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00:43 | g3gg0 | SDRAM == DRAM == requires refreshing every 15µsec (iirc?)
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00:43 | Bertl | ddr3 actually needs a quite complicated controller for all the refresh stuff and banking
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00:43 | seku | mh, no way to buffer stuff from the FPGA into sdram_
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00:43 | seku | *?
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00:44 | seku | ah i see... i lack way too much knowledge
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00:45 | seku | a SDRAM ram drive might still be fun tho. at gamma level :)
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00:45 | __anton__ | The only place I found this on the net. A contraption to get PCIe out of your PC. Made by Blackmagic. Costs whopping EUR 43. http://www.marcotec-shop.de/en/products/cat_538/detail_5834.htm
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00:46 | g3gg0 | Bertl: SATA-Slave mode, emulating a block device that just streams data with 6GBit/s - might that work? but then we had still to fight with cable lengths
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00:46 | Bertl | __anton__: 43 EUR?
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00:46 | g3gg0 | expensive for just an adapter :)
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00:47 | Bertl | especially as I'm not sure what you would do with that
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00:48 | Bertl | the trace length is somewhere around 10-12 inch, IIRC
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00:48 | seku | just a random thought... infiniband?
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00:49 | seku | proprietary too i suppose :(
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00:49 | g3gg0 | okay, its getting late. gn8 everyone
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00:50 | Bertl | have a good one!
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00:50 | seku | gnight :)
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00:50 | seku | 126k ... rather nice
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00:53 | seku | gnight here too... work awaits :)
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00:53 | seku | left the channel | |
00:55 | __anton__ | well people seem to making them a few meters long external PCIe calbes, say here http://www.scsi4me.com/tmc-c5458-xm-pcie-x4-x8-external-pcie-x4-to-external-pcie-x8-cable.html not sure if that works well.. I've also come across this: http://www.terasic.com.tw/cgi-bin/page/archive.pl?Language=English&No=704 an adaptor for $150 which has got some chip on it
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00:55 | g3gg0 | left the channel | |
00:56 | Bertl | you can extend it with proper signal equalization and retiming
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00:56 | Bertl | but a few meters won't work that well I guess
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00:58 | __anton__ | another prob is these cables are probably rather stiff and inflexible.. same applies to Infiniband cables..
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