23:05 | lab-bot-1 | BAndiT1983 committed rOPENCINEcc72b57e490d: - Prototype: Submitting for backup, not much time atm (authored by BAndiT1983).
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02:35 | Bertl | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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07:38 | Bertl | morning folks!
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08:05 | dmjnova | morning Bertl
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08:59 | Bertl | off for now ... bbl
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09:24 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
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09:26 | se6astian | good morning
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09:34 | lab-bot-1 | sebastian created T275: write summary of relevant points from article. http://lab.apertus.org/T275
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14:08 | se6astian | any native speaker around who can take a look at a letter I just wrote for another grant application?
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14:16 | intracube_ | changed nick to: intracube
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15:21 | comradekingu | how about crop-shooting 1080 on a 4k live-view screen, where the outlay is green-tinted so that you dont lose anything to where a frame would otherwise bee, and you see the difference between inside and outside the shot more clearly
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15:22 | comradekingu | With the sensor being much less widescreen than the final shot usually is, it could be interesting to see what happens off-screen this way, without having to doublescope it
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15:25 | se6astian | what?
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15:26 | se6astian | you mean the "look around"?
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16:20 | comradekingu | what is the "look around"?
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16:34 | se6astian | https://images.indiegogo.com/file_attachments/845931/files/20140909152450-look-around.jpg?1410301490
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16:36 | comradekingu | se6astian: yes, the problem i have there is the white frame
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16:37 | comradekingu | if you squint at it, you see the off-screen as a black outlay, thats the effect, only in a green tint
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16:39 | intracube | ah, I see. yes, that might be useful
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16:41 | comradekingu | the way i imagine it, it works
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16:43 | comradekingu | I find if you look through the scope of a rifle, its works to have the other (noscope) eye simultaneously scout out the general area
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16:44 | comradekingu | The cases when it doesnt work on a camera is when you have major crop factor, massive magnification, and just a screen with no extra info to look at.
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16:45 | comradekingu | A nice attachment for that could be a laser scope mount, to know where you are pointing
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16:45 | comradekingu | Which could also be used to instruct people to move around i imagine
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16:52 | lab-bot-1 | Schuh created T276: Accessories / Compatibility. http://lab.apertus.org/T276
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16:57 | intracube | comradekingu: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/mxfUbooXeGayetVQJW8SKdnMYJUeo0pIYlHIxcDKFzM=w1134-h318
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16:57 | intracube | like that?
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16:58 | comradekingu | intracube: yes, perfect, except i dont think the white frame is needed
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16:59 | comradekingu | bonus for making the tint change colours to be different than what you are looking at. Lets say it changes to red if there isnt any red in the scene
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17:01 | comradekingu | see the oak on the right hand picture, i have trouble seeing how it extends, because its behind the white line
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17:03 | comradekingu | i imagine i can then nudge it ever so slightly to set it up just right, instead of having to bring the frame to somewhere else, only to re-align it where i want. That isnt as precise either
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17:07 | intracube | https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hVHOnI-e0II/VNZTedhHDGI/AAAAAAAAA_8/HUezUjn4IjE/w1134-h318-no/green_framing_mask_2.png
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17:07 | intracube | the edge of the frame isn't so clear without the line IMO
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17:08 | intracube | but just personal preference
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17:12 | se6astian | let me create a lab task for that
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17:16 | comradekingu | i like it better, but its not quite there
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17:16 | comradekingu | how about inverted colours on the outlay, and pink tint
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17:16 | comradekingu | or maybe just inverted colours alone
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17:16 | intracube | inversion looked distracting to me
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17:17 | comradekingu | ill try to gimp something up
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17:17 | lab-bot-1 | sebastian created T277: Look Around (see area around the recorded one). http://lab.apertus.org/T277
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17:17 | se6astian | http://lab.apertus.org/T277
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17:18 | se6astian | please add further concepts/ideas directly in the lab task
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17:18 | se6astian | this looks great already :)
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17:19 | intracube | last one: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kNvw3Rs6e70/VNZXACRkEsI/AAAAAAAABAM/ROb9aikAi6U/w756-h425-no/inverted_framing_mask.png
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17:20 | comradekingu | inverted sepia-outlay and no frame
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17:27 | intracube | se6astian: the image isn't creative commons. I doubt anyone will complain, but I'll use CC images in future
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17:31 | se6astian | noted
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17:32 | se6astian | intracube: are you a native speaker?
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17:38 | intracube | English, yes
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17:38 | comradekingu | Here is my take on it http://lab.apertus.org/file/data/ux5v3ndhakzkjichdvyy/PHID-FILE-bwsfpvdvxb2asn45xq7r/redoutlaynoframe.JPG
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17:39 | intracube | comradekingu: maybe it would be possible to generate a wacky LUT that does a combination of these things
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17:40 | comradekingu | i increased cyan on shadows, then filled all the black with gray. Id probably do something else if the shot was different, but there are uses
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17:41 | comradekingu | i can for example see there is a bit of noise here, but i dont have to have it in the actual shot
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17:42 | comradekingu | If i could drag one slider for fill colour, then another for fill treshold thats all i did really
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17:43 | comradekingu | Atleast for still shots the camera computing power could keep up, maybe it has to be simplified a bit for camera movement shots
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17:45 | intracube | se6astian: I can look at the letter if you'd like
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17:46 | comradekingu | I can have a look too
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17:48 | se6astian | great
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17:48 | se6astian | one sec
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17:50 | se6astian | pmed
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17:51 | comradekingu | pm meeeee mememememe
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17:52 | se6astian | I did already
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17:52 | troy_s | comradekingu: You just described over scan.
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17:53 | se6astian | troy_s: technically no
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17:53 | comradekingu | nice, tools i understand means tools i can use
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17:53 | troy_s | se6astian: Technically yes. Overscans just matte with black to varying degrees.
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17:53 | troy_s | (Opaque to semi)
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17:53 | troy_s | The rest is just fluff.
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17:54 | se6astian | overscan shows the area outside the safe area, this "look around" shows parts of the image that are not even recorded
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17:54 | troy_s | Uh that is overscane
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17:54 | troy_s | And it comes from history
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17:55 | troy_s | Optical viewfinders used to show the safe range that landed within the gates confines
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17:55 | troy_s | But _also_ areas beyond, because it was merely a mirror and prism.
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17:55 | troy_s | This was of course critical for operators to see booms, gear, and other unwanted bits to avoid shooting them.
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17:56 | troy_s | The first earlier gripes against the entire digital camera format was that this critical "beyond area" was missing, making it deadly hard to operate as they used to.
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17:56 | troy_s | And the vendors had to work around to fixing it.
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17:56 | troy_s | :)
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17:57 | se6astian | but are you sure most in the community would associate "overscan" with the camera recording side and not the monitor/safe area side?
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17:58 | troy_s | Over scan has always been overscan, which I believe got lumped into the extra non-gate discussions. Probably semantic now as it is always on sensor.
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17:58 | se6astian | great, then let me rename that task on the forums
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17:58 | troy_s | (Not to be confused with "safe", because that was a broadcasting bit of history)
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17:59 | se6astian | done
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17:59 | se6astian | http://lab.apertus.org/T277
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17:59 | troy_s | Check OIIO, as it has plenty of discussion regarding over scan, which is specifically dealing with stuff in data, but not there.
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18:00 | troy_s | se6astian: http://www.arri.com/camera/alexa/technology/viewfinders/electronic_viewfinder_evf_1/
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18:01 | troy_s | Look around / over scan. Not sure what term is more correct these days.
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18:01 | troy_s | Seems to be rather willy nilly.
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18:03 | comradekingu | i understand outlay and frame
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18:03 | troy_s | What is outlay?
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18:03 | comradekingu | or just "off-camera" and "on-camera"
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18:03 | comradekingu | outlay are the bits that are off-screen
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18:04 | troy_s | Uh.
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18:04 | troy_s | Ok.
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18:04 | comradekingu | the shot, and off-screen
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18:04 | comradekingu | thats easy enough
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18:04 | comradekingu | you see it in the shot, its in the shot, you bring it in from off-screen, its now in the shot
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18:05 | troy_s | I am not keen on making up new lingo.
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18:05 | troy_s | But to each their own.
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18:05 | comradekingu | outlay was a bad idea
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18:06 | comradekingu | renaming words and a in-camera lookup table with explanation would be a nice feature
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18:06 | troy_s | LOL
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18:06 | troy_s | Yep.
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18:06 | troy_s | We could do like Tolkien and invent a whole language.
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18:06 | comradekingu | i want to enforce my kind of idiocy
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18:06 | troy_s | LMAO.
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18:07 | troy_s | It is a funny and real discussion actually.
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18:07 | comradekingu | But honestly, every time i pick up something from a new camera brand, something has changed name to something spurious
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18:07 | troy_s | Exactly.
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18:08 | troy_s | And in terms of design, that tends to bust up the mental models a bit.
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18:08 | comradekingu | And every single PR-department probably think each new word for every slightly changed function is the best ever, but not so much when thats the only thing that gets in the way of me knowing whats what
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18:08 | troy_s | Hence why regarding cameras and such, we still use fstops, gates, aperture, etc.
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18:08 | se6astian | we call it "outlaw" :)
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18:08 | troy_s | Yep. Exactly. Marketing buffoonery.
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18:09 | troy_s | Outland.
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18:09 | se6astian | no much room, your mic is totally "outlaw"!
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18:09 | troy_s | And another button for Westworld.
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18:09 | troy_s | Alphaville could be the knob.
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18:10 | troy_s | se6astian: How go the design meetings? Good?
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18:10 | comradekingu | If you give someone a pre-set camera you could rename everything to dont-touch
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18:10 | comradekingu | I guess it would be better to gray it out actually
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18:11 | comradekingu | back to the letter
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18:11 | troy_s | se6astian: I forgot to mention that on the Alexa and the F65 they have EI indices
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18:11 | troy_s | se6astian: And the ISO / EI literally merely slides the exposure window up and down.
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18:12 | troy_s | While entirely leaving the latitude about the same (although there is a maximal latitude setting of something like 800 on the Alexa IIRC)
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18:16 | troy_s | http://provideocoalition.com/aadams/story/alexa_dynamic_range_its_all_in_how_you_use_it/P3
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18:16 | troy_s | That link shows how the window shifts.
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18:19 | se6astian | will do another ergonomics meeting soon, we havent had one since christmas....
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18:20 | se6astian | for the Alexa EI / exposurecompensation there are two lab tasks:
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18:20 | se6astian | http://lab.apertus.org/T271
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18:20 | se6astian | http://lab.apertus.org/T268
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18:21 | intracube | grmf - the google docs comment systems is rough
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18:24 | troy_s | God se6astian that second one is a ridiculous thread.
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18:24 | troy_s | The EI merely shifts the window. It really isn't complex.
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18:24 | troy_s | No idea what that peep rambles on about.
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18:25 | troy_s | So say you have ten stops of latitude, and EI 800 puts you five up five down
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18:25 | troy_s | 1600 puts you four up six down
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18:25 | troy_s | 3200 puts you three up seven down
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18:26 | troy_s | It really is that simple. And yes there is a "sweet" spot that probably ekes out another half stop, but the general principle is deadly simple to understand.
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18:26 | troy_s | Happily you cut through the BS being peddled and nailed it at the end of that nightmare thread.
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18:28 | troy_s | se6astian: "The formula" looks like a Reinhard. Not sure, and certainly _not_ canonical. Arri's is LogC.
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18:37 | se6astian | interesting :)
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19:05 | Bertl_oO | changed nick to: Bertl
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19:05 | Bertl | back now ...
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21:39 | se6astian | time for bed
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21:39 | se6astian | good night!
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21:40 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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