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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2015/02/07

Timezone: UTC


23:05
lab-bot-1
BAndiT1983 committed rOPENCINEcc72b57e490d: - Prototype: Submitting for backup, not much time atm (authored by BAndiT1983).
00:29
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intracube
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intracube_afk
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fsteinel_
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02:35
Bertl
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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Bertl
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ItsMeLenny
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Bertl_zZ
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07:38
Bertl
morning folks!
08:05
dmjnova
morning Bertl
08:59
Bertl
off for now ... bbl
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Bertl
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09:24
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
09:26
se6astian
good morning
09:34
lab-bot-1
sebastian created T275: write summary of relevant points from article. http://lab.apertus.org/T275
10:28
se6astian
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se6astian|away
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fsteinel
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14:08
se6astian
any native speaker around who can take a look at a letter I just wrote for another grant application?
14:08
danieel
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14:16
intracube_
changed nick to: intracube
15:21
comradekingu
how about crop-shooting 1080 on a 4k live-view screen, where the outlay is green-tinted so that you dont lose anything to where a frame would otherwise bee, and you see the difference between inside and outside the shot more clearly
15:22
comradekingu
With the sensor being much less widescreen than the final shot usually is, it could be interesting to see what happens off-screen this way, without having to doublescope it
15:25
se6astian
what?
15:26
se6astian
you mean the "look around"?
16:20
comradekingu
what is the "look around"?
16:34
se6astian
https://images.indiegogo.com/file_attachments/845931/files/20140909152450-look-around.jpg?1410301490
16:36
comradekingu
se6astian: yes, the problem i have there is the white frame
16:37
comradekingu
if you squint at it, you see the off-screen as a black outlay, thats the effect, only in a green tint
16:39
intracube
ah, I see. yes, that might be useful
16:41
comradekingu
the way i imagine it, it works
16:43
comradekingu
I find if you look through the scope of a rifle, its works to have the other (noscope) eye simultaneously scout out the general area
16:44
comradekingu
The cases when it doesnt work on a camera is when you have major crop factor, massive magnification, and just a screen with no extra info to look at.
16:45
comradekingu
A nice attachment for that could be a laser scope mount, to know where you are pointing
16:45
comradekingu
Which could also be used to instruct people to move around i imagine
16:52
lab-bot-1
Schuh created T276: Accessories / Compatibility. http://lab.apertus.org/T276
16:57
intracube
comradekingu: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/mxfUbooXeGayetVQJW8SKdnMYJUeo0pIYlHIxcDKFzM=w1134-h318
16:57
intracube
like that?
16:58
comradekingu
intracube: yes, perfect, except i dont think the white frame is needed
16:59
comradekingu
bonus for making the tint change colours to be different than what you are looking at. Lets say it changes to red if there isnt any red in the scene
17:00
dmjnova
left the channel
17:01
comradekingu
see the oak on the right hand picture, i have trouble seeing how it extends, because its behind the white line
17:03
comradekingu
i imagine i can then nudge it ever so slightly to set it up just right, instead of having to bring the frame to somewhere else, only to re-align it where i want. That isnt as precise either
17:07
intracube
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hVHOnI-e0II/VNZTedhHDGI/AAAAAAAAA_8/HUezUjn4IjE/w1134-h318-no/green_framing_mask_2.png
17:07
intracube
the edge of the frame isn't so clear without the line IMO
17:08
intracube
but just personal preference
17:12
se6astian
let me create a lab task for that
17:16
comradekingu
i like it better, but its not quite there
17:16
comradekingu
how about inverted colours on the outlay, and pink tint
17:16
comradekingu
or maybe just inverted colours alone
17:16
intracube
inversion looked distracting to me
17:17
comradekingu
ill try to gimp something up
17:17
lab-bot-1
sebastian created T277: Look Around (see area around the recorded one). http://lab.apertus.org/T277
17:17
se6astian
http://lab.apertus.org/T277
17:18
se6astian
please add further concepts/ideas directly in the lab task
17:18
se6astian
this looks great already :)
17:19
intracube
last one: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kNvw3Rs6e70/VNZXACRkEsI/AAAAAAAABAM/ROb9aikAi6U/w756-h425-no/inverted_framing_mask.png
17:20
comradekingu
inverted sepia-outlay and no frame
17:27
intracube
se6astian: the image isn't creative commons. I doubt anyone will complain, but I'll use CC images in future
17:31
se6astian
noted
17:32
se6astian
intracube: are you a native speaker?
17:38
intracube
English, yes
17:38
comradekingu
Here is my take on it http://lab.apertus.org/file/data/ux5v3ndhakzkjichdvyy/PHID-FILE-bwsfpvdvxb2asn45xq7r/redoutlaynoframe.JPG
17:39
intracube
comradekingu: maybe it would be possible to generate a wacky LUT that does a combination of these things
17:40
comradekingu
i increased cyan on shadows, then filled all the black with gray. Id probably do something else if the shot was different, but there are uses
17:41
comradekingu
i can for example see there is a bit of noise here, but i dont have to have it in the actual shot
17:42
comradekingu
If i could drag one slider for fill colour, then another for fill treshold thats all i did really
17:43
comradekingu
Atleast for still shots the camera computing power could keep up, maybe it has to be simplified a bit for camera movement shots
17:45
intracube
se6astian: I can look at the letter if you'd like
17:46
comradekingu
I can have a look too
17:48
se6astian
great
17:48
se6astian
one sec
17:50
se6astian
pmed
17:51
comradekingu
pm meeeee mememememe
17:52
se6astian
I did already
17:52
troy_s
comradekingu: You just described over scan.
17:53
se6astian
troy_s: technically no
17:53
comradekingu
nice, tools i understand means tools i can use
17:53
troy_s
se6astian: Technically yes. Overscans just matte with black to varying degrees.
17:53
troy_s
(Opaque to semi)
17:53
troy_s
The rest is just fluff.
17:54
se6astian
overscan shows the area outside the safe area, this "look around" shows parts of the image that are not even recorded
17:54
troy_s
Uh that is overscane
17:54
troy_s
And it comes from history
17:55
troy_s
Optical viewfinders used to show the safe range that landed within the gates confines
17:55
troy_s
But _also_ areas beyond, because it was merely a mirror and prism.
17:55
troy_s
This was of course critical for operators to see booms, gear, and other unwanted bits to avoid shooting them.
17:56
troy_s
The first earlier gripes against the entire digital camera format was that this critical "beyond area" was missing, making it deadly hard to operate as they used to.
17:56
troy_s
And the vendors had to work around to fixing it.
17:56
troy_s
:)
17:57
se6astian
but are you sure most in the community would associate "overscan" with the camera recording side and not the monitor/safe area side?
17:58
troy_s
Over scan has always been overscan, which I believe got lumped into the extra non-gate discussions. Probably semantic now as it is always on sensor.
17:58
se6astian
great, then let me rename that task on the forums
17:58
troy_s
(Not to be confused with "safe", because that was a broadcasting bit of history)
17:59
se6astian
done
17:59
se6astian
http://lab.apertus.org/T277
17:59
troy_s
Check OIIO, as it has plenty of discussion regarding over scan, which is specifically dealing with stuff in data, but not there.
18:00
troy_s
se6astian: http://www.arri.com/camera/alexa/technology/viewfinders/electronic_viewfinder_evf_1/
18:01
troy_s
Look around / over scan. Not sure what term is more correct these days.
18:01
troy_s
Seems to be rather willy nilly.
18:03
comradekingu
i understand outlay and frame
18:03
troy_s
What is outlay?
18:03
comradekingu
or just "off-camera" and "on-camera"
18:03
comradekingu
outlay are the bits that are off-screen
18:04
troy_s
Uh.
18:04
troy_s
Ok.
18:04
comradekingu
the shot, and off-screen
18:04
comradekingu
thats easy enough
18:04
comradekingu
you see it in the shot, its in the shot, you bring it in from off-screen, its now in the shot
18:05
troy_s
I am not keen on making up new lingo.
18:05
troy_s
But to each their own.
18:05
comradekingu
outlay was a bad idea
18:06
comradekingu
renaming words and a in-camera lookup table with explanation would be a nice feature
18:06
troy_s
LOL
18:06
troy_s
Yep.
18:06
troy_s
We could do like Tolkien and invent a whole language.
18:06
comradekingu
i want to enforce my kind of idiocy
18:06
troy_s
LMAO.
18:07
troy_s
It is a funny and real discussion actually.
18:07
comradekingu
But honestly, every time i pick up something from a new camera brand, something has changed name to something spurious
18:07
troy_s
Exactly.
18:08
troy_s
And in terms of design, that tends to bust up the mental models a bit.
18:08
comradekingu
And every single PR-department probably think each new word for every slightly changed function is the best ever, but not so much when thats the only thing that gets in the way of me knowing whats what
18:08
troy_s
Hence why regarding cameras and such, we still use fstops, gates, aperture, etc.
18:08
se6astian
we call it "outlaw" :)
18:08
troy_s
Yep. Exactly. Marketing buffoonery.
18:09
troy_s
Outland.
18:09
se6astian
no much room, your mic is totally "outlaw"!
18:09
troy_s
And another button for Westworld.
18:09
troy_s
Alphaville could be the knob.
18:10
troy_s
se6astian: How go the design meetings? Good?
18:10
comradekingu
If you give someone a pre-set camera you could rename everything to dont-touch
18:10
comradekingu
I guess it would be better to gray it out actually
18:11
comradekingu
back to the letter
18:11
troy_s
se6astian: I forgot to mention that on the Alexa and the F65 they have EI indices
18:11
troy_s
se6astian: And the ISO / EI literally merely slides the exposure window up and down.
18:12
troy_s
While entirely leaving the latitude about the same (although there is a maximal latitude setting of something like 800 on the Alexa IIRC)
18:16
troy_s
http://provideocoalition.com/aadams/story/alexa_dynamic_range_its_all_in_how_you_use_it/P3
18:16
troy_s
That link shows how the window shifts.
18:19
se6astian
will do another ergonomics meeting soon, we havent had one since christmas....
18:20
se6astian
for the Alexa EI / exposurecompensation there are two lab tasks:
18:20
se6astian
http://lab.apertus.org/T271
18:20
se6astian
http://lab.apertus.org/T268
18:21
intracube
grmf - the google docs comment systems is rough
18:24
troy_s
God se6astian that second one is a ridiculous thread.
18:24
troy_s
The EI merely shifts the window. It really isn't complex.
18:24
troy_s
No idea what that peep rambles on about.
18:25
troy_s
So say you have ten stops of latitude, and EI 800 puts you five up five down
18:25
troy_s
1600 puts you four up six down
18:25
troy_s
3200 puts you three up seven down
18:26
troy_s
It really is that simple. And yes there is a "sweet" spot that probably ekes out another half stop, but the general principle is deadly simple to understand.
18:26
troy_s
Happily you cut through the BS being peddled and nailed it at the end of that nightmare thread.
18:28
troy_s
se6astian: "The formula" looks like a Reinhard. Not sure, and certainly _not_ canonical. Arri's is LogC.
18:36
dmjnova
joined the channel
18:37
se6astian
interesting :)
19:05
Bertl_oO
changed nick to: Bertl
19:05
Bertl
back now ...
21:39
se6astian
time for bed
21:39
se6astian
good night!
21:40
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away