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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2017/01/06

Timezone: UTC


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Bertl_oO
off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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Bertl_oO
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08:05
Bertl_zZ
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08:05
Bertl
morning folks!
09:21
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
09:51
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_oO
12:37
se6astian
great news everyone: i figured out the openpnp bottom vision axis orientation issue and can now place 0402 with near 100% perfect accuracy
12:37
se6astian
repeatedly
13:02
se6astian
there is still a small offset somewhere
13:02
se6astian
but that will be easy to correct
13:02
se6astian
https://cloud.gerade.org/index.php/apps/gallery/s/aDVX7UjLykjJeAX#0402-BV-placements-success.jpg
13:11
comradekingu
yay
13:43
Spirit532
se6astian, did you have to choose the jankiest-looking board for the test? :)
13:43
Spirit532
so much schmoo
13:43
Spirit532
but congrats
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se6astian
the double sided tape and gaveyard of resistors make it indeed look aweful :D
14:07
comradekingu
was hoping that was not the usual run of the mill :)
14:08
Spirit532
editing high speed video from a mildly aged camera is such a pain
14:08
Spirit532
their proprietary format only really usefully exports into uncompressed avi and raw tiffs, usefully
14:08
Spirit532
grrrr
14:08
Spirit532
at least resolve understands tiff sequences and plays them blazing fast
14:09
se6astian
fun!
14:09
Spirit532
I still haven't figured out how to do an average FPN removal
14:09
Spirit532
the sensor is a bit out of cal and has some black patterns
14:10
Spirit532
I know what I need to do(take an average of X black frames, divide by number, subtract), but I have no idea how to do it in any NLE/grading software
14:11
se6astian
we also tried that approach with the beta first
14:11
Spirit532
apparently I got autobanned in ##electronics, hold on
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14:11
se6astian
but did not get to a point where it produced anything useful
14:12
se6astian
alex then approached the topic from a programming POV with proper math background
14:12
se6astian
and that worked out very well
14:12
Spirit532
well, I can go inside the $60 000 camera and tweak the(presumably) 14 column amplifier voltage pots
14:12
Spirit532
but I'd rather not, seeing the numbers
14:13
se6astian
interesting that they actually expose such controls :)
14:13
Spirit532
expose?
14:13
Spirit532
who said anything about expose!?
14:13
Spirit532
I ripped into the camera, I own it!
14:13
se6astian
ha :D
14:13
Spirit532
I wouldn't be an EE if I didn't take it apart.
14:15
Spirit532
which alex is the one that made the FPN magically woosh away?
14:22
se6astian
alexML:
14:31
kaiserlich
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14:35
alexML
yes?
14:38
Spirit532
alexML, teach me the ways of fixing FPN
14:41
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14:46
alexML
these are my notes for the Beta: https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Pattern_Noise
14:46
alexML
are you talking about FPN from the same sensor, or something different?
14:47
Spirit532
something entirely different
14:47
alexML
have some samples?
14:47
Spirit532
FPN from an extremely large pixel(1280x1024, full-frame) sensor from a HS camera
14:47
Spirit532
have samples indeed, hold on
14:48
Spirit532
i.spirit.re/fpnsmp.zip
14:48
Spirit532
there.
14:48
Spirit532
these are raw bitmaps
14:48
alexML
for the beta, a large part of the dynamic row noise (the non-fixed part of the pattern noise) could be estimated from the black columns
14:48
Spirit532
it's not dynamic
14:48
Spirit532
it stays nearly perfectly constant throughout the operation
14:48
Spirit532
just getting slightly higher/lower in intensity with temperature
14:49
Spirit532
it's designed to operate at ~45-48C(silicon, body is at around 50C), but the sensor appears to have been calibrated stone cold
14:49
Spirit532
and so when it gets up to operating temp, it becomes fuzzy.
14:50
intracube_afk
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14:50
alexML
if it's not dynamic, a dark frame subtraction should do the trick
14:50
alexML
it's a bit harder to measure the temperature variations though
14:51
Spirit532
except I can't just subtract that
14:51
Spirit532
at least I wasn't able to in AE/Vegas
14:51
Spirit532
it just goes funny
14:51
alexML
are you working on raw (linear) data?
14:51
Spirit532
I think so
14:52
alexML
what image format do you get from the camera?
14:52
Spirit532
proprietary voodoo, can be exported into tiffs
14:52
Spirit532
https://i.spirit.re/UL0Ln.zip
14:53
Spirit532
frame 0 is black(almost completely), the other is with action, slightly underexposed
14:55
Spirit532
that was shot at ISO 3200-ish, 1/100 000 shutter, f/5.6
14:55
Spirit532
no gain
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pusle
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14:58
alexML
try this:
14:59
alexML
octave:1> a = imread('match1_1kfps_100kthshut_f56-N001_00000000.tif');
14:59
alexML
octave:2> b = imread('match1_1kfps_100kthshut_f56-N001_00000899.tif');
14:59
alexML
octave:3> imwrite(uint16(b-a), 'd.tif');
14:59
alexML
octave:4> imshow(sqrt(b-a), []);
14:59
Spirit532
implying I have octave D:
14:59
Spirit532
but, that's just subtracting it directly, right?
15:00
Spirit532
and making it non-linear
15:00
alexML
the nonlinear part is just to boost the shadows when previewing
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15:01
Spirit532
the other problem is
15:01
Spirit532
sometimes the shots can't be purely dark
15:01
Spirit532
and I can't do a reference frame every shot
15:01
alexML
it changes over time?
15:01
Spirit532
no, I can't have a black shot for every frame, since I don't have a shutter capable of flipping at 168kHz
15:01
Spirit532
lol
15:02
Spirit532
the pattern is static, but it gets more/less pronounced
15:03
alexML
so it's not static :P
15:04
Spirit532
can that be defined as not static?
15:04
alexML
it changes during a single video clip?
15:04
Spirit532
no, but it changes clip-to-clip
15:04
alexML
even if the clips have the same settings? (exposure time, iso/gain)
15:04
Spirit532
if they're shot almost sequentially, not really
15:05
Spirit532
but if I give the camera an hour to warm up, they vary wildly
15:05
alexML
ok, so it's probably temperature
15:05
Spirit532
yes
15:05
Spirit532
I can actually get the raw sensor temp with each clip
15:05
Spirit532
but I doubt that really helps
15:06
Spirit532
in that clip the sensor was at 44C
15:06
alexML
you could record a series of dark clips (along with temperature metadata), ranging from cold (winter helps) to hot (say after 1-2 hours of recording)
15:07
Spirit532
that's kinda what I did with the first archive
15:07
Spirit532
but it's never spot-on
15:07
alexML
you may find hints about temperature by measuring hot pixels
15:08
alexML
https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php/Black_Calibration#Dark_current_measurement_from_hot_pixels
15:08
Spirit532
if you scroll through the images blown way up in gain
15:08
Spirit532
https://i.spirit.re/OGZx7.webm
15:08
Spirit532
you can see that there's regular CMOS sensor noise, and then there's this "filter" on top
15:08
alexML
although, this alone was not enough on the Beta to fix temperature variations
15:08
Spirit532
which remains absolutely constant
15:09
Spirit532
I guess my best bet is to just take a calibration shot before every real shot as close as possible
15:10
alexML
looks like some flicker; I'm not sure what I'm looking at (e.g. what's on the time axis, how the grayscale mapping was done)
15:10
Spirit532
that's just flicking through the images in irfanview
15:10
Spirit532
it does a min-max thing
15:10
Spirit532
to show you the most image
15:11
alexML
ah, so that is very likely to cause flicker
15:11
Spirit532
there's no real flicker
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Spirit532
yes
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alexML
afk
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