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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2013/12/05

Timezone: UTC


01:21
FergusL
Bertl: XLR
01:21
FergusL
well utimately, a professional camera can totally go without recording sound
01:22
FergusL
most "professional" setups are done two systems
01:25
FergusL
meaning image and sound are captured on separate devices
01:27
Bertl
hmm, I know XLR from lighting control ...
01:27
FergusL
dmx ?
01:27
FergusL
isn't dmx 5 pins... ? dun remember
01:28
Bertl
I'm just asking because we had a discussion that 'professional audio' uses USB
01:29
Bertl
and I doubt that professional audio would even go near USB because of the unpredictable latencies
01:30
Bertl
yes, there is indeed an xlr audio pinout, not sure how common it is though http://www.clarkwire.com/PinOutXLRBalanced.htm
01:31
FergusL
then can you explain what you mean by interface ?
01:35
Bertl
well, we talked about audio and audio support for recording (in the camera)
01:36
Bertl
and it was suggested, that nowadays audio is sent/transported via USB, thus we need to use USB to record audio
01:37
Bertl
and as I haven't seen any professional audio equippment (not camera related) which relies on USB as protocol, I thought, I ask around what you folks have seen/used
01:39
FergusL
cameras generally have XLR , two inputs, with phantom power switch, parameters for gain in the menus, period
01:39
FergusL
that's for shoulder cameras generally designed for TV
01:40
Bertl
okay, and if they go all digital, i.e. no mic/analog input?
01:46
FergusL
never heard of such a thing
01:47
FergusL
but if there is USB on our camera and that one can plug linux-compatible soundcards there to record from the card inputs, that could be appreciated
01:48
Bertl
I don't think USB and audio is a good idea for several reasons
01:48
Bertl
first, the USB audio protocol is very tricky
01:48
Bertl
second, the linux kernel and userspace needs to handle all the synchronization
01:49
Bertl
i.e. we would need to install e.g. jackd
01:49
Bertl
that's a lot of resources and power for being able to 'plug-in' a cheap usb audio dongle
01:50
FergusL
there are very very high grade usb audio cards
01:50
Bertl
OTOH, if we support I2S or similar, maybe even S/PDIF
01:50
Bertl
then there is no problem with synchronization and stuff like that
01:50
FergusL
though there are also Firewire, PCI (has rack unit + pci card, mainly for studios) and now Thunderbolt on Macs
01:51
FergusL
I see
01:51
Bertl
AES3 is fine too of course
01:53
FergusL
never heard of AES3
01:53
FergusL
my cubieboard has I2S !
01:53
Bertl
AES3 is the professional variant of S/PDIF (which is the consumer end)
01:55
Bertl
usually using TOSLINK optical fiber
01:55
Bertl
(but works via copper as well)
02:52
jucar
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03:27
jucar
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04:34
intracube
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05:46
dmj_nova
FergusL: Yeah, please no usb soundcard stuff
05:46
dmj_nova
It's totally good enough for consumer speakers, not sure it would be a good fit here.
05:47
dmj_nova
and yeah, we definitely want to support XLR with phantom power, since that's what a lot of the best mics use
05:59
Bertl
another question is, do we want to attach mics directly to the camera? I'd expect some kind of preamp/equalizer/etc
06:00
Bertl
of course, we could make a full featured sound/audio/mic module which does all this, but I guess that's a separate project
07:26
Sasha_C
joined the channel
09:38
jucar
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09:56
se6astian
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10:30
Bertl
off for a nap ... bbl
11:39
Bertl
back ...
11:39
Sasha_C
Welcome back Bertl
11:40
Bertl
thanks!
11:59
se6astian
hi there :)
12:05
Sasha_C
I'm reading through the comments on the latest axiom update just now: Jonathan Smith wrote "Hi have you updated github? I was thinking of buying the hard ware this week and start developing along side and share ideas. Also I noticed that the component layout for sensor board was not there. Thanks for all your hard work"
12:05
Bertl
yeah, we should definitely update the hardware related stuff on github
12:06
Bertl
(will put it on my todo list for this week)
12:06
Sasha_C
Thanks Bertl
12:08
Bertl
Gabe is also waiting for an updated version to order from OSHpark
12:10
Bertl
hmm, maybe I should upload it right now, but I guess I need to add a proper directory structure first
12:12
Bertl
hmm, no, sebastian already did that, and the 1.1 version is checked in ...
12:12
Bertl
thanks se6astian!
12:12
Bertl
Sasha_C: what is Jonathan Smith referring to?
12:13
Bertl
I can check in v1.2, but 1.1 is basically what we are using right now
12:14
Sasha_C
Bertl: I'm not sure. His comment can be found at the bottom of the page: https://www.apertus.org/axiom-alpha-progress-article
12:15
Bertl
I do not see it
12:16
Bertl
I see three comments on that page
12:16
Bertl
(tommaso, Sebastian and Capion Studio)
12:17
Sasha_C
Ah, I see the problem. The last comments still require approval. Doing it now
12:17
se6astian
Sasha_C, where did you see that comment?
12:18
Sasha_C
Check the comments again now on the news update page
12:18
se6astian
ah thanks
12:18
Sasha_C
No problemmo
12:18
Bertl
do I need to add something silly again to get the page to update?
12:19
Sasha_C
Hit refesh?
12:19
Bertl
doesn't change anything
12:19
Bertl
but adding ?silly works :)
12:20
Bertl
IMHO this bug should get fixed really soon
12:21
se6astian
its not a bug
12:21
se6astian
its a feature :)
12:21
se6astian
caching of pages
12:22
se6astian
but I just turned down max lifetime of cached pages from 12 to 3 hours
12:28
Bertl
why does it cache pages when they have changed?
12:29
Bertl
usually a smart cache requests a header, which contains information about the last change to the page/content
12:29
Bertl
when the page changes, the header is updated and the cache purges the old data
12:30
Bertl
(so something must be misconfigured, and it isn't the max lifetime IMHO :)
12:36
se6astian
I will look into it
12:36
Bertl
not terribly urgent, but annoying I guess (not just for me)
12:40
FergusL
Hi there
12:40
se6astian
http://www.slashcam.de/news/single/Axiom-Alpha---Fortschritte-beim-Prototypen-11057.html
12:43
Bertl
please somebody hint Jonathan to https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/alpha-hardware/tree/master/SFE-PCB
12:43
Sasha_C
Will do
12:44
Bertl
v1.1 is the one we are using, v1.2 incorporates all the changes we found useful so far and a little more
13:00
se6astian
I have installed an action now that should automatically invalidate a node cache in drupal when a comment is updated aka approved
13:00
se6astian
lets see if that does the trick
13:03
Bertl
sounds good
13:16
troy_s
Bertl: Don't quote me but 5 pin stereo XLR.
13:21
troy_s
Bertl: F65 is a module (double system) IIRC. (3 pin in, 5 pin out (XLR)).
13:22
troy_s
Bertl: But just commit to a double system and skip it.
13:22
troy_s
Bertl: BNC for TC.
13:23
troy_s
Bertl: Camera's primary target is imaging. Audio is yet another distraction for a too small Axiom crew.
13:24
troy_s
Bertl: Just nail TC and leave it at that.
13:26
Bertl
well, the decision is not mine (alone) to make, but I agree that audio is not the primary focus
13:28
troy_s
Bertl: Look to the defacto imaging devices on a set - Arri and Sony's.
13:29
troy_s
Bertl: You won't find a single small low budget production that _doesn't_ use a double system.
13:29
troy_s
Bertl: Sony's F65 is an add-on and Arri's is most certainly only as editorial.
13:30
troy_s
Bertl: Even on no budget shorts I have participated on we _always_ used a double system.
13:30
troy_s
Bertl: Plus, given the team's size and capabilities, it is the no-brainer decision. Nail timecode and ignore audio.
13:32
Bertl
speaking of, how is time usually synchronized in a camera? i.e. do you care about the real time or just about relative timing?
13:33
troy_s
Jammed
13:33
troy_s
Or constant TC via a sync box.
13:34
Bertl
jammed means?
13:34
troy_s
(A sync box lives on the camera and provides a TC out via BNC. Jamming is once everywhenever (start of day, lunch, etc.))
13:34
troy_s
Jam = intermittent TC sync from a master
13:35
troy_s
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/562544-REG/Denecke_SB_3_SB_3_Syncbox_Time_Code_Generator.html
13:35
Bertl
okay, got it, so a timecode output from the camera is fine, but an input would be better, yes?
13:35
Bertl
or is the video data the time base?
13:37
se6astian
left the channel
13:37
Bertl
I'm wondering because we won't get high precision timing without GPS for example
13:37
troy_s
http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/6892-more-alexa-timecode-sync-info/
13:37
troy_s
Bertl: You need an input.
13:37
troy_s
Bertl: The sound peep usually has the master.
13:37
Bertl
ah, good to know, simplifies things
13:38
troy_s
Bertl: So you either jam off of his master or you roll a syncbox attached full time to camera.
13:38
troy_s
Both are pretty common practice.
13:39
Bertl
okay, makes sense
13:41
troy_s
And the sync boxes too can be jammed off of a single master.
13:41
troy_s
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/562544-REG/Denecke_SB_3_SB_3_Syncbox_Time_Code_Generator.html
13:41
troy_s
3.5 in
14:01
Sasha_C
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14:04
se6astian
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14:11
se6astian
I just backed http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1608311032/lenzhound-wireless-lens-motor-control-system
15:58
se6astian
time for the first christmas punsch of the year :)
15:58
se6astian
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jucar
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se6astian
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[1]se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian
21:59
Bertl
off for a nap ... bbl
22:02
se6astian
good night :)
22:40
dmj_nova
se6astian: hmm honestly not sure if we can pull it off this year or not
22:40
dmj_nova
would be cool
22:40
dmj_nova
could certainly pull off January
22:40
dmj_nova
and depends on what we want to show in the crowdfunding video
22:43
se6astian
lets at least try :)
22:46
se6astian
time for bed
22:46
se6astian
good night
22:46
se6astian
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