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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2014/10/05

Timezone: UTC


00:00
Q_
Thanks.
00:02
Bertl
np
00:20
intracube_afk
http://caffeineforge.com/2012/09/10/mind-the-gap-kickstarter-funding-trends/
00:20
intracube_afk
changed nick to: intracube
00:26
Bertl
interesting, thanks!
00:36
g3gg0
ah interesting
00:37
intracube
it does seem like 60-70% of successful projects have that curve
00:37
intracube
random example: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1207064031/rise-of-the-kage-ninja-board-game-with-detailed-mi/
00:38
intracube
some look more.... unusual: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/leviathaninteractive/project-lodus-a-cyberpunk-co-op-action-rpg/
00:38
g3gg0
:)
00:39
g3gg0
well, it mainly depends on publicity
00:39
intracube
28K on the last day and -just- makes the target :P
00:40
g3gg0
when it reaches the last week, people start to spread the word
00:41
g3gg0
iirc alex made a referrer link for the direct donations when following his link
00:41
intracube
maybe around halfway through most projects go on a promotion blitz
00:41
g3gg0
yeah
00:41
intracube
which then shows results in the last 1/4 of the project
00:46
g3gg0
still impressive that there is such a coincidence that on the day the most video news sites reported about ML supporting axiom, the money flow went up that massive
00:46
g3gg0
e.g. http://www.redsharknews.com/business/item/2060-breaking-news-the-axiom-camera-team-has-joined-up-with-magic-lantern
00:46
g3gg0
or planet5d etc
00:46
intracube
g3gg0: yeah, it looks likely that ML promotion had a significant effect
00:46
g3gg0
i guess that reached out much more people than before
00:46
Bertl
yeah, I still think this had a major part in it
00:47
intracube
having key people signed up matters and encourages others
00:47
intracube
ML, Philip Bloom, etc
00:47
g3gg0
i remember alex saying that his direct referrer made ~4k after 4 days (iirc)
00:48
g3gg0
but due to his internet problems, we didnt chat much since then :)
00:48
g3gg0
nevertheless, the race isnt over yet
00:48
g3gg0
4 days, 5kâ¬
00:49
g3gg0
hitting the goal is the most important now :)
00:49
Bertl
yes, but it looks a lot better than 10 days ago :)
00:49
g3gg0
i guess you mobilized also the sensor manufacturers?
00:49
intracube
that's about 4 â¬350 donations per day
00:50
g3gg0
i.e. asking them if they are willing to support?
00:50
g3gg0
i can imagine that they are interested in this project being successful too
00:50
intracube
Bertl: are the apertus° + AXIOM logos/text available as .SVG files anywhere?
00:51
Bertl
yes, I think so, but don't ask me where :)
00:52
intracube
is asking Bertl where :)
00:53
intracube
I didn't look enough: https://apertus.org/logo
00:54
g3gg0
Bertl: http://thndl.com/how-dng-compresses-raw-data-with-lossless-jpeg92.html could make it into MLV format
00:54
Bertl
intracube: k. will try to remember that one, but I think it doesn't have the AXIOM one
00:54
g3gg0
Andrew Baldwin made a really good MLV viewer and is trying to find a good RAW compression algorithm
00:54
intracube
Bertl: yep, I'm still looking for that
00:55
Bertl
g3gg0: yeah, the problem with lossless compression is that you still have to plan for full bandwidth
00:55
g3gg0
yep
00:55
g3gg0
you cannot rely on its success
00:55
Bertl
precisely
00:56
g3gg0
this codec doesnt make it into ML firmware
00:56
g3gg0
the cPU is too slow
00:56
Bertl
we probably want something small which can be put into the FPGA
00:57
g3gg0
its meant for archiving footage
00:57
Bertl
that's the only way to make it reasonably fast
00:58
intracube
for recording 300FPS, would it be possible to distribute the frames across multiple hardware h.264 encoders
00:59
Bertl
define hardware h.264 encoders
00:59
intracube
Bertl: standardized h.264 encoder chips
00:59
intracube
I guess most of them will max out at 30 or 60fps
01:00
Bertl
got a datasheet for me?
01:00
g3gg0
is leaving to get some sleep. 4 hours of sleep is minimum ;)
01:00
Bertl
sleep well then!
01:01
g3gg0
gn8 altogether
01:01
intracube
Bertl: not currently. but 5 chips running at 60fps each = 300
01:01
intracube
g3gg0: night :)
01:02
Bertl
that probably wont work, as it would mess up all temproal coding
01:02
Bertl
you would want to split the image in sectors
01:02
Bertl
and run each sector at 300FPS
01:02
intracube
yes, the chips would have to be running intra-frame mode
01:02
intracube
so the final stream wouldn't have a GOP structure
01:03
intracube
Bertl: wouldn't that be more complex to recombine back to a single stream?
01:04
Bertl
well, it would require recoding, not sure what your plans are though
01:05
g3gg0
left the channel
01:05
intracube
to have a final stream that's h.264, I-frame only, might be flagged as 25fps (so motion would playback 12x slower than normal)
01:06
intracube
as I doubt many media players (software or hardware) would handle a 300fps stream
01:07
Bertl
I don't think that you will be able to simply mix 5 overlapping (with a phase offset) streams together, but I might be wrong
01:07
intracube
Bertl: http://www.soctechnologies.com/piece.php?Id=191
01:08
intracube
Bertl: yes, simply appending frames from 5 independent encoders to a single stream might not work
01:08
Bertl
that's proprietary IP
01:08
intracube
likely there would be flags + other data that need to be there to be a proper muxed video file
01:09
intracube
Bertl: I guess most hardware encoders would be IP :/
01:10
intracube
h.264 encoders at any rate
01:10
Bertl
that's not a hardware part
01:10
Bertl
that is a netlist you can build an ASIC with or program an FPGA
01:11
Bertl
and you have to sign an NDA for that and pay big bucks to be able to use it, but you won't get any source
01:11
intracube
sorry, I know virtually nothing about hardware design
01:11
intracube
hmm
01:19
intracube
Bertl: http://www.nxp.com/products/identification_and_security/security_and_surveillance_ip_camera/ASC8852AET.html
01:19
intracube
same IP issues there?
01:21
Bertl
nope, that is hardware, but seems to require an NDA for the datasheet
01:21
Bertl
so, can't say very much right now, the leaflet doesn't give away too much
01:22
Bertl
but it seems to be an soc solution with an arm core and specialized hardware
01:41
wescotte
joined the channel
02:29
ItsMeLenny
joined the channel
02:32
Bertl
hey, it's you lenny! :)
02:45
ItsMeLenny
it is me lenny
02:45
ItsMeLenny
it's i
02:45
ItsMeLenny
its not you bert though
02:45
ItsMeLenny
it is bert1
02:45
ItsMeLenny
how are you
02:46
Bertl
no, actually it is BertL (get a decent client :)
02:46
ItsMeLenny
lol
02:46
ItsMeLenny
#couriernew
02:47
Bertl
but I'm used to folks calling me Bert-i and Bert-1 on IRC :)
02:47
ItsMeLenny
lol, if i want to ping someone i type a couple letters and hit tab so that should work Bertl
02:47
ItsMeLenny
yeah
02:47
Bertl
yup, same here ...
02:49
ItsMeLenny
i'd make a joke about people also calling you bert-[the japanese character that looks like a l] but i dont know what its called, ive only seen it on the DS XL japanese version
02:49
ItsMeLenny
http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Nintendo-3DS-XL1.jpg
02:50
ItsMeLenny
maybe i wouldve gotten better results if my google wasnt switched to german for some reason
02:50
Bertl
hehe
02:52
ItsMeLenny
axiom is nearly funded
02:53
Bertl
yes, it is looking good
02:54
ItsMeLenny
i like how axiom has put the sensor/lens mount in the centre of the camera, its one thing that drives me mad with both DSLRs and point and shoots
02:54
ItsMeLenny
as theyre uncentred, if that wasnt clear :p
02:55
Bertl
I can relate
02:56
wescotte
left the channel
03:04
even
joined the channel
03:04
even
hellos
03:04
ItsMeLenny
although i havent helped fund
03:04
ItsMeLenny
many hellos
03:04
Bertl
even: that's odd :)
03:05
even
i came to hang up paper streamers :D
03:05
Bertl
great! show them to us!
03:05
ItsMeLenny
can i have one?
03:06
even
hehe well you still have to wait 4 days
03:06
ItsMeLenny
tease us with these paper streamers and then not share!
03:06
Bertl
yeah, shame on you!
03:07
ItsMeLenny
permaban!
03:07
ItsMeLenny
:P
03:07
even
=)
03:10
even
bertl: even is my real name =)
03:11
even
i've been following the project for quite some time
03:12
Bertl
cool name, can't compete with that
03:12
even
looks great so far. can't wait to have it in my hands
03:12
Bertl
what are you going to do with it, if you don't mind sharing?
03:13
even
i'll put it on my drone and try to take over the world... just kidding =)
03:16
even
I'm looking forward to shoot some music videos.
03:17
even
and sorry for my bad english... i'm from germany
03:17
ItsMeLenny
people who speak english can't even speak it properly, so nobody noticed
03:18
Bertl
I'm not a native english speaker either, so no need to apologize
03:18
ItsMeLenny
i thought axiom was german
03:20
Bertl
no, not really :)
03:25
even
it's from these guys.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm6TSVRi-BA
03:25
ItsMeLenny
that video is unavailable with safety mode enabled
03:26
even
don't worry haha it's nothing important just funny as a flying banana
03:27
ItsMeLenny
whens inspector rex come in
03:38
wescotte
joined the channel
03:49
even
is there an estimated weight of the system already? *points at the beta concept model*
03:50
even
i know that question might be to early but i need some numbers to calculate with.
03:50
Bertl
not really, we did a few checks on the electronics side, but as the case/mount materials are still undecided, it's problematic
03:52
even
>1kg incl. lensmount?
03:52
Bertl
the MicroZed is about 45g, the Beta PCB with parts and socket will be about the same
03:52
Bertl
add two shields and the dual microSD, you'll get about 150g without case, sensor, mount and cooling
03:54
Bertl
mount and case can go between 50g and 500g I guess, depending on the materials used
03:54
Bertl
you need to add a lens system to that, but that can be rather light as well
03:56
Bertl
(the nikkor lens we used on the Alpha has about 170g)
03:56
even
nice thank you
03:57
Bertl
so if you want to use a quad copter or similar you probably want to avoid a heavy case and use light materials for lens mount and lens system, and of course, high density batteries
03:58
even
yap that was my thought. it's a self made cinestar x8
04:00
Bertl
nice! anyway, I'm off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
04:00
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
04:00
even
sleep well
04:40
Nathan___
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05:05
Nathan___
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05:13
ItsMeLenny
left the channel
06:38
Hyuri
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07:51
g3gg0
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07:56
daFred
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08:05
daFred
even: at the moment the stack of pcb's and the lensmount is planned to be held by a sturdy part including tripod thread. So for development it should work without housing. The lightest housing would be a plastic bag :-))
08:09
even
what about duck tape? :D
08:09
daFred
as the design is open source there could be lightweight versions in the community too. In the moment I'm thinking of a cast variant ranging from aluminium or transparent plastics or even ceramics...
08:10
dmjnova
even: you're interested in the axiom for drone use?
08:11
daFred
duck tape holds the world together :-)) btw is it open source??
08:14
dmjnova
what drone are you flying now?
08:14
even
daFred: i've seen the design. i have the possibilites to mill parts myself. got a 5 axis cnc and a 3 axis cnc at my work place so if anyone needs help. feel free to shoot at me. i can't use it everyday but weekends is np.daFred: i've seen the design. i have the possibilites to mill cases got a 5x cnc and a 3x cnc at my work place
08:15
even
whoops sorry
08:15
even
dmjnova: i built a cinestar x8
08:15
even
it's not completly done yet but mostly =)
08:16
even
i'm designing the gimbal at the moment
08:17
even
i was planning to buy a 5dm3
08:17
even
because of ml =)
08:18
even
but i'm pretty confident that this project will be awesome in a few years. the possibilities are endless
08:18
even
so i passed on the 5d for now
08:21
even
a live streaming module would be dope
08:21
even
2,4 or 5.8 ghz
08:22
dmjnova
noted :D
08:22
dmjnova
designing your own gimbal, sounds familiar
08:23
dmjnova
axiom should be much nicer for drone flying than epic
08:23
even
hehe apart from the electronics
08:23
dmjnova
what will you be doing for gimbal controller?
08:23
even
alexmos 32bit 3 axis
08:24
dmjnova
was just tuning a gimbal with one of those
08:24
even
how is it? i haven't ordered it yet?
08:25
dmjnova
be very conscientious about IMU wire length
08:25
dmjnova
where were you going to order from?
08:25
even
sec have to look
08:25
even
http://flyduino.net/Brushless-Gimbal
08:27
dmjnova
Had some problems using frame IMU with the RCTimer one
08:27
dmjnova
so the onboard frame IMU sounds like a great idea
08:28
dmjnova
otherwise seemed to work great until it came to tuning the yaw axis
08:29
even
what motors and camera are you using?
08:30
dmjnova
that particular one was using the NEX, don't remember what motors
08:30
dmjnova
something brushless obviously
08:30
dmjnova
but that was just tuning an existing gimbal
08:30
dmjnova
designing a gimbal currently as well though
08:31
even
nice!
08:32
even
yeah it's tricky but best is learning by doing =)
08:32
even
i really like the mövis but the prices are insane
08:41
dmjnova
I happen to work at a multirotor manufacturer
08:41
dmjnova
so the axiom is pretty darn interesting
08:41
dmjnova
of course I was already into the axiom before that
08:43
dmjnova
hmm...the cinestar really could have more lifting capacity
08:43
even
conclusion: we need an apertus gimbal, an apertus timlapse slider and an apertus robot arm (kuka like) for slowmotion shots with micrometer precision. lol
08:44
dmjnova
nods knowingly
08:45
even
g3gg0: love you guys!
08:46
even
http://vimeo.com/94871761 =)
08:51
Hyuri
left the channel
08:51
dmjnova
the look reminds me of The New World
08:54
dmjnova
quite steady
08:54
even
have a look at that one i love the flying shots http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ_IQS3VKjA
09:02
dmjnova
that's some nice clear action shooting
09:03
dmjnova
beautiful gopro footage aside
10:13
philippej
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10:27
daFred
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daFred
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daFred
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11:53
philippej
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12:11
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
12:11
Bertl
morning folks!
12:14
Bertl
96.5k \o/
12:20
Gegsite
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Gegsite
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Gegsite
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12:26
philippej
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12:37
Gegsite
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12:47
nnailer
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12:49
danieel
Bertl / g3gg0 - i would rather see a side by side comparison of the two chips - but there is a lot of possibility to do software based corrections - the actual harware plays a minor role
12:53
philippej
danieel, I guess it's always better to have actual sample files, since you never know what a specific sensor will bring in reality. It might be interesting to see if the software side strategies can be reused for different sensors.
12:57
Bertl
of course I meant unmodified i.e. sensor raw data, with and without sensor side corrections enabled
13:00
wescotte
left the channel
13:12
danieel
yes but of what subject - e.g. the sensor behaves very different when in complete darkness, and when even a tiny light hits it
13:12
danieel
we found a lot of strange things on the live 4k setup we have now
13:13
Bertl
dark frames, IIRC
13:13
Bertl
that's what alexML required
13:13
danieel
even after a fpn is removed (substractive) there is a fixed pattern remaining
13:13
Bertl
yes, that is why there are two components of FPN
13:14
danieel
unless the frames are taken under controlled conditions, the results are hard to compare to anything
13:14
nnailer
Thank you for adding a third batch of the super35's. I just heard about the project from Magic Lantern and made my contribution almost immediately after.
13:15
Bertl
you're welcome!
13:15
nnailer
Do you know if VAT will be added on to orders shipped to USA?
13:16
danieel
Bertl: the 1 min video is showing the kac with "super35" text in same time :) lol
13:17
Bertl
yeah, result from cutting down the video, we filmed the KAC but not the CMV at this time
13:18
nnailer
Never mind. I think I found my answer at http://www.brighton-accountants.com/blog/vat-uk-usa/. VAT is not added to orders shipped to USA.
13:18
philippej
nnailer : it shouldn't.
13:18
philippej
you might have to pay some import duties
13:18
nnailer
Cool. One less thing for my wife to freak out about :)
13:18
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
13:18
philippej
:-)
13:19
nnailer
I probably should've waited for her to wake up before I gave $440 USD up for a beta. I couldn't risk it though. Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission sometimes.
13:19
Bertl
nnailer: we still have to figure out the best way to get everything to the users
13:19
philippej
the good thing is that it's already a low risk proposal, since you fund only the development for now, you don't have to put the whole money on the table now
13:19
Bertl
for example it might be "better" to order all the MicroZed (or PicoZed) designated for the US, within the US
13:19
se6astian
good afternoon!
13:20
nnailer
Good morning.
13:20
philippej
afternoon !
13:20
Bertl
morning! :)
13:21
Bertl
I just got up an hour ago *G*
13:22
nnailer
Is there a getting started section for new developers to get up to speed on contributing?
13:23
Bertl
not yet, but if you are going down that path, maybe help creating one on the wiki or so?
13:23
nnailer
I don't know where to start. I am a developer by trade though and I would like to contribute.
13:24
se6astian
there are general pages
13:24
se6astian
https://apertus.org/contribute
13:24
se6astian
and https://apertus.org/join-the-team
13:24
se6astian
though non technical details related
13:25
nnailer
Are you guys tracking defects ?
13:25
Bertl
nnailer: what have you been developing so far?
13:25
se6astian
you mean a bugtracker, its planned yes
13:25
Bertl
nnailer: not yet, but a bug/feature tracker is in the works
13:25
nnailer
Anything that is requested ranging from low level touch screen and printer drivers to high level javascript webapps.
13:27
nnailer
Currently an IVR developer primarily working with C, VXML, Java, and Javascript.
13:27
Bertl
sounds good, how about embedded systems? microcontroller? FPGA?
13:28
nnailer
I've dabbled with ladder logic, stepper motors and such. Not much experience outside of that.
13:28
Bertl
okay, no problem
13:29
philippej
whare are we on the bugtracker side btw?
13:29
Bertl
nnailer: what platforms? Linux? MacOS? Windows?
13:30
nnailer
Primarily windows and linux.
13:30
nnailer
Current day job is linux.
13:31
Bertl
okay, sounds good ... my suggestion would be to get a Zynq based development board which can be reused for the Beta later and get comfortable with that first
13:32
Bertl
unless you want to work on the "other side" i.e. outside the camera on applets or other stuff required to communicate with the camera
13:32
nnailer
I've worked with FFMPEG code in the past and wrote FLIC rendering into SDL among other things.
13:32
nnailer
Not sure that there is much crossover there.
13:32
Bertl
yeah, SDL is nice, I've been using it for many things, but I do not see an application there right now
13:33
nnailer
I would like to work on both sides if possible but I think my immediate experience lends more towards the software side..
13:33
Bertl
yeah I was referring to software on both sides
13:34
nnailer
Ahh. I meant the fluffy side.
13:35
se6astian
current status on bugtracker: we used buggenie in the past, good user experience but it unfortunately was not really ready for production sites - got flooded with spam and has pretty much no countermeasures so we had to close it again; I am hesitant to deploy something like bugzilla because its a total overkill for our target audience as it will consists of a lot of non-software developers so we need to make sure the system is easy to navigate and re
13:35
nnailer
Are you guys using the Zynq 7020 for beta?
13:35
se6astian
we should test buggenie though maybe they fixed it by now
13:36
Bertl
Zynq Z-7010/7015/7020 yes
13:37
Bertl
se6astian: I had good experiences with bugzilla, it is rather straight forward
13:37
regnirps
left the channel
13:38
nnailer
Any specific model that I should get Bertl?
13:39
Bertl
we will definitely do a Beta for the MicroZed 7010/7020 (in this case I'd go for the 7020)
13:40
Bertl
but we also plan a Beta variant using the new PicoZed 7015
13:40
Bertl
(which might be a little further down the road)
13:40
Bertl
and we plan to make another variant based on the Parallella board
13:40
Bertl
which features an Epiphany core in addition to the Zynq
13:41
danieel
what will the PB do?
13:42
Bertl
PB?
13:42
danieel
parallella board
13:42
Juicyfruit
se6astian, for a bugtracker / issue tracker / patch tracker the blender project uses phabricator and I am very happy with it in terms of features and interface and use patterns
13:43
Bertl
danieel: mostly processing image data I guess
13:43
philippej
we could try to compare bugzilla, mantis and phabricator
13:45
Juicyfruit
philippej, it mostly depends on what you as a project want and need to get out of the software .
13:45
nnailer
Any vender recommendation Bertl? digilentinc.com has a 7010 dev board for $189 USD.
13:45
Juicyfruit
phabricator has really nice patch review and in is a lot more then just a bugtracker
13:46
Bertl
nnailer: no recommendations, wherever it is readily available and the price acceptable you can go for it
13:46
Bertl
(but consider the 7020 version for the MicroZed, it has more I/Os)
13:47
Bertl
and get one of those Xilinx programming cables, they simplify interfacing the board till you get a Beta Board
13:48
nnailer
Thanks Bertl
13:48
philippej
Juicyfruit
13:49
Juicyfruit
philippej, yes
13:49
philippej
Juicyfruit, it will probably depend of the ease of use for non developpers
13:49
philippej
(sorry, pressed return too soon :-) )
13:49
Juicyfruit
philippej, well i would just look around on https://developer.blender.org/ :)
13:49
philippej
since developpers usually have some special abilities to use non straightforward tools
13:50
philippej
It looks really nice btw
13:50
Juicyfruit
philippej, it was made by facebook people i think they even use it
13:51
Bertl
one important thing is that there is some kind of email interface
13:51
Bertl
i.e. notifications about updates at least and email replies would be highly appreciated
13:52
Bertl
from the interface, the developer.blender.org looks fine to me
13:53
nnailer
I have to take off for now. I will place my order for the 7020 and stop back in soon. Thanks again for this awesome work. I hope to help in the near future.
13:53
Bertl
nnailer: you're welcome! and looking forward to it!
13:53
philippej
inbound email documented here : https://secure.phabricator.com/book/phabricator/article/configuring_inbound_email/
13:54
philippej
See you nnailer !
13:57
even
gn8 =)
13:58
even
left the channel
13:58
mars_
over 97k!
14:03
Bertl
\o/
14:03
Gegsite
joined the channel
14:09
se6astian
ok gotta run
14:09
se6astian
see you later
14:09
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
14:47
Bertl
98k \o/
14:49
philippej
2k to go
14:51
Gegsite
will make
14:55
Gegsite
dont the mega :P
14:55
Gegsite
Done the Mega :)
14:56
Bertl
great!
14:57
Gegsite
just for the T-shirt lol
15:04
comradekingu
wont a lens mount in aluminium be lighter and better for heat dissipation?
15:05
comradekingu
with some ridges on the outside it doubles as a capable heatsink and grip for holding the camera
15:05
seku
joined the channel
15:06
seku
hiyas! congrats on reaching the 98k!! and random greetings from canada. taking the plane home tonight and looking forward to see how the campaign ends :)
15:06
mars_
thx seku!
15:07
seku
coming home with 1.5 tera of ML raw video ... i wonder how i will cope with 4k raw with the axiom ^^;
15:09
seku
now .. packing up. ill be joining the chat more regularly again when im home.
15:13
seku
cya tomorrow
15:13
mars_
cya
15:13
seku
left the channel
15:20
Gegsite
left the channel
15:22
mars_
98.6k, getting closer
15:25
Bertl
I think we might make the goal tonight
15:25
jucar1
left the channel
15:27
jucar
joined the channel
15:27
philippej
left the channel
15:29
mars_
that would be awesome
15:39
comradekingu
sent mail to my other videographer aquaintance
16:03
philippej
joined the channel
17:09
g3gg0
Bertl: if you want to provide a1ex raw images he can use to determine sensor quality, there are various methods to do so
17:10
g3gg0
a) static scene with deepest shadows (light trap) and overexposed areas, totally out of focus (blurry) so you have gradients. this shot with every ISO the sensor has, at least two images per ISO. (fixed position, no movement at all)
17:12
g3gg0
b) total uniform gray shots without any visible pattern. doable with e.g. a tissue over the lens pointing into sky (of course no focus at all) also at different ISOs
17:12
g3gg0
a) is for determining DR and noise and b) is for FPN measurement. (plus a few dark frames of course)
17:14
g3gg0
i think if he can get hands on these raw images, he can run his statistics tools and present you DxO-Mark like results :)
17:14
jucar
left the channel
17:15
Bertl
yeah, that was the idea, danieel can you do that?
17:16
jucar
joined the channel
17:22
Q_
I was thinking about doing some stats too, but didn't get around to it yet.
17:23
intracube
â¬99,000 :)
17:24
comradekingu
alluring 99%
17:41
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
17:41
se6astian
back
17:44
se6astian
99% - I think now is a good point to consider if we really want to build a camera..... :P
17:45
Bertl
nah :)
17:46
se6astian
I have always been really fund of cookery you know
17:47
se6astian
erm I mean *fond :)
17:48
Bertl
let's make an open source hot-plate then :)
17:54
se6astian
I read on heise there is great demand for it!
17:55
philippej
left the channel
17:56
troy_s
Congrats se6astian / Bertl
17:57
Bertl
thanks! congratulations/thanks to the community!
17:57
troy_s
g3gg0: You can profile without the full sensor diffuse white and a light trap for black.
17:57
troy_s
You basically add two synthetic points into your profiles for generating after you have done the first pass in processing them.
17:58
troy_s
This allows the resultant LUT or matrix to span the full range, with proper correct values.
17:59
troy_s
If you use real-world white / black, you are A) likely to never get the true values of black and white B) are subject to the worst regions of sensor capture etc.
17:59
troy_s
The resultant profile will almost always likely be a skewed mess.
18:08
wescotte
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18:21
Legendin
joined the channel
18:21
danieel
troy_s: do you know how to do a 3x3 matrix math in Baselight?
18:21
danieel
seems that there is no such functionality easily available
18:22
troy_s
danieel: You can do a transform in Baselight. Any reason you are using Baselight for it?
18:22
troy_s
Just use OCIO and OIIO's tools. Lean and weaponized.
18:22
Q_
So I'm looking at one of the darkframe images. Does it have known dead pixels?
18:22
troy_s
(And utterly configurable)
18:22
danieel
we had our matrix written on paper, and wanted to apply to the reels we got
18:22
troy_s
danieel: Then use OCIO / OIIO. Want me to set up a config for you?
18:22
danieel
we found just a rather complicated profile setup for in/out conversion
18:23
danieel
no.. i wanted to do it as an effect
18:23
danieel
like realtime :)
18:23
troy_s
Say what?
18:23
troy_s
Snag Resolve then.
18:24
se6astian
Q_: yes there are 8 dead pixels AFAIR
18:24
danieel
ok, i thought so that different sw would be better for the task
18:24
Q_
I think I see 5?
18:24
Bertl
you won't see black sensel on the dark frame I guess
18:25
Q_
I guess so too.
18:25
troy_s
danieel: Honestly though, you can do it with GPU and OCIO.
18:26
troy_s
danieel: Hell, you could do it in Blender if you wanted.
18:26
troy_s
danieel: Dead easy. Just set the transform as a spimtx file (a 4x3 matrix with far right column being 16 bit offsets (0))
18:27
troy_s
danieel: Then set up a view. Done.
18:28
troy_s
If you want help, it would take me four minutes.
18:28
troy_s
Dead simple.
18:28
danieel
no need to, offline i can do it too
18:30
troy_s
danieel: OCIO can be online ;)
18:31
troy_s
danieel: Use a quickie python script and GPU.
18:31
troy_s
You won't get tetrahedral interp, but you can demo it (and CDL) using the GPU.
18:31
danieel
just noticed that 4.4 release got a matrix :) we were on a 4.3 setup
18:32
troy_s
But a matrix is kind of crap.
18:32
troy_s
You probably want a 3D LUT for a camera profile demo.
18:32
danieel
no i did not, i wanted to mess with the channels with a matrix
18:36
aombk
joined the channel
18:36
aombk
hi everybody
18:36
troy_s
danieel: Mess? There is a right and a wrong, no real inbetween.
18:37
troy_s
danieel: Unless it is a creative twist, but that would slug in after the camera transform.
18:44
philippej
joined the channel
18:45
philippej
964 euros and we'll finaly be able to work on the pong appliance
18:47
se6astian
philippej: damn how did you figure out where the entire budget would go?
18:48
troy_s
se6astian: How is your plan looking? 100k ⬠doesn't buy a lot of time for certain.
18:48
Q_
Their seems to be a weird pattern to the samples from that dark frame.
18:48
danieel
what is the weirdeness?
18:49
danieel
g3gg0: is somewhere that evaluation script? or it is hand work?
18:50
Q_
The first 2 rows have all samples zero (except 2), the other rows have around 100 pixels zero at the start and end of each row.
18:51
g3gg0
danieel: a1ex uses matlab and a bunch of selfmade scripts. i dont have them, but he posted some of them in forums
18:51
Q_
I guess you could also see that on images that a1ex made.
18:52
se6astian
99.4%
18:52
Legendin
left the channel
18:53
se6astian
troy_s: we built the AXIOM Alpha with less than 10K⬠- for the Beta this funding will open up a new world of possibilities! :)
18:53
troy_s
I know
19:00
daFred
joined the channel
19:02
Bertl
evening daFred!
19:03
daFred
evening, happy crowd funding!!!
19:03
Q_
Any idea where that pattern comes from?
19:05
Bertl
Q_: no idea, there might be up to 16 columns black (the so called black columns) but not up to 100, and certainly the rows at the top are not special in any way
19:12
danieel
se6astian: material cost for my kac model is ~ 4000e, and it can record 4k video and has sdi link :) so i wonder what did cost 10k on the alpha
19:13
Bertl
we built two of them, no?
19:13
Bertl
besides, not everybody is as efficient as you are :)
19:14
Bertl
to compensate for that, we are doing FOSS/OH not proprietary cameras :)
19:16
g3gg0
whose F5 button already broke?
19:17
Bertl
what does F5 do for you?
19:17
g3gg0
reload the indiegogo page
19:17
philippej
they probably have a cache of at least one minute to compensate for people like you (and me) :-)
19:20
se6astian
danieel: mainly booze
19:26
daFred
I fear I need a new Safari window when the campaign is over.... and a couple of new reload buttons...
19:27
Bertl
just take the 600 EUR perk and do a single reload :)
19:29
Bertl
but we still have 3 days left :)
19:31
daFred
Se6astian I think it's time to make special offer for the Platinum Deluxe pay one, take two
19:33
philippej
latest update is nice !
19:35
philippej
(talking about that : https://vimeo.com/107801527 )
19:37
se6astian
daFred: I was thinking about just giving away everything for free from now on :)
19:38
wescotte
philippej: reminded me of Upstream Color
19:38
wescotte
se6astian: I want my 5 euros back then! :)
19:45
Gegsite
joined the channel
19:47
aombk
there is an auto reload addon for firefox
19:49
se6astian
wescotte: no refunds, we already used your 5⬠for buying rocket fuel for our escape!
19:50
intracube
â¬99,786!
19:51
se6astian
woah, so close!
19:51
philippej
(no need to reload anything, just have an irc client open :-) )
19:51
Bertl
goal reached!
19:51
Bertl
\o/
19:51
philippej
!!!!!!!
19:51
se6astian
HURRAY!!!
19:51
intracube
woooooo! :)
19:52
intracube
congratulations se6astian, Bertl and the other Apertus folk :)
19:52
aombk
congratulations people
19:52
Gegsite
YEEEAAAHHH
19:52
intracube
\o/
19:52
aombk
very nice and clever campaign
19:56
wescotte
congrats guys
19:58
Bertl
thanks to everyone for making this possible!
19:59
se6astian
you guys rock :D
19:59
Gegsite
could be a stat in a map what country did the support, to money and amount :P
19:59
beat_b
joined the channel
20:00
beat_b
Congrats team!
20:00
beat_b
â¬100,136EUR raised of â¬100,000 goal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:00
Bertl
thanks!
20:01
beat_b
I am sooooooooooo happy for all of us :-)
20:01
daFred
yeah baby yeahhh, all the best!!!!
20:02
g3gg0
congratulations
20:05
wescotte
Now get the Horizon 2020!
20:09
KurtAugust
joined the channel
20:09
KurtAugust
Apertus: Ok guys, get to work! Congratulations...
20:10
Bertl
thanks, but we are already working on the Beta :p
20:12
wescotte
You were clicking refresh 24/7 for the past 26 days!
20:13
Bertl
hehe, no, I was just clicking reload at the right time, i.e. right after we passed the goal :)
20:13
KurtAugust
left the channel
20:20
jucar
left the channel
20:20
jucar
joined the channel
20:24
Legendin
joined the channel
20:26
Bertl
wb Legendin!
20:27
troy_s
Et voila.
20:27
philippej
une bonne chose de faite.
20:31
se6astian
moved up the stretch goals in the campaign site
20:34
se6astian
WORLD NEWS brings the latest update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q5wGasoiXE
20:34
aombk
i like the idea of backers funding the development, not prepaying for a future product
20:34
wescotte
I think you guys did a great job with your stretch goals. Often they have one serious one and all the rest are just wishful thinking. All of these feel very feasible both in the ability to deliver and the amount of extra funds to raise.
20:34
aombk
and gaining a discount in the process
20:40
comradekingu
se6astian: i think the changes to the explanation page make sense while the campaign is live too.
20:41
comradekingu
Those who already know are onboard, but it might win over more people who are only videographers atm
20:41
comradekingu
100% :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
20:42
g3gg0_
joined the channel
20:43
aombk
when will we get our buttons?
20:43
comradekingu
buttons?
20:44
g3gg0
left the channel
20:45
se6astian
Roberto Schaefer, ASC just emailed me: "right on! I'll chill one here too." (champagne)
20:46
Bertl
nice!
20:50
aombk
the buttorn perk
20:50
aombk
button perk
20:51
Legendin
left the channel
20:52
comradekingu
i think the people who arent quite sure are still on the fence
20:52
Bertl
aombk: I guess as soon as possible, right when the campaign is over or so ... involves some logistics
20:58
troy_s
OK... Where's the camera?
20:59
Bertl
right beside me ... a few months in the future :)
21:00
philippej
See you all "tomorow" for the rest of the story!
21:00
Bertl
yeah, have a good night philippe!
21:05
philippej
left the channel
21:11
beat_b
left the channel
21:21
wescotte
troy_s: you didn't get yours yet? Strange... Mine shipped out the same day I donated!
21:28
Gegsite
left the channel
21:43
troy_s
Bertl: I need a series of raws (the bayered footage) for a short.
21:43
troy_s
Bertl: Are there any of the shots in raw format out there? I need it for testing memory and such.
21:45
Bertl
testing memory in what way?
21:46
Bertl
I mean, why not simply take a raw or two and repeat them (forever)
21:52
troy_s
Bertl: Because I'm spending a teeny bit of time on a lab app and I need a whole shot.
21:52
troy_s
I could repeat them
21:52
troy_s
but I'm more interested in a real-world shot
22:00
troy_s
Bertl: Not fussy, but something with a human in it would be great.
22:00
Bertl
well, we only have time lapse in 4k raw, and it takes ages to upload
22:01
Bertl
because transferring a 4k raw image takes about 10 seconds on the Alpha
22:04
Bertl
and no human in it of course, just a garden from sunrise to sunset
22:05
Bertl
(maybe sebastian has done other time lapse tests)
22:11
troy_s
Bertl: I'd take anything at this point honestly.
22:11
troy_s
Bertl: Anything than a fricking still of an IT8 LOL
22:28
Bertl
a small sequence will show up here: http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/ALPHA/TL/
22:28
Bertl
takes about 10 minutes per frame to upload
22:31
daFred_
joined the channel
22:32
g3gg0_
left the channel
22:34
daFred
left the channel
22:52
troy_s
Bertl: Love you. Thanks.
22:52
troy_s
Bertl: If I gave you an IAM share at S3, would that be faster?
22:53
troy_s
Or is the crimp at the upload side?
22:54
Bertl
it's the upload which is the limiting factor here
22:54
Bertl
but in a few seconds, you have already 3 frames :)
22:58
Bertl
they will be quite similar, as they are in short sequence, i.e. 60 seconds apart each or so
23:04
wescotte
left the channel
23:07
__anton__
joined the channel
23:07
__anton__
Congrats, great day :)
23:08
Bertl
thanks! and yes!! we made it!
23:14
se6astian
ok long day already
23:14
se6astian
good night!
23:14
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
23:18
Bertl
troy_s: do you need more than seven frames?