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#apertus IRC Channel Logs

2014/10/05

Timezone: UTC


01:00
Q_
Thanks.
01:02
Bertl
np
01:20
intracube_afk
http://caffeineforge.com/2012/09/10/mind-the-gap-kickstarter-funding-trends/
01:20
intracube_afk
changed nick to: intracube
01:26
Bertl
interesting, thanks!
01:36
g3gg0
ah interesting
01:37
intracube
it does seem like 60-70% of successful projects have that curve
01:37
intracube
random example: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1207064031/rise-of-the-kage-ninja-board-game-with-detailed-mi/
01:38
intracube
some look more.... unusual: http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/leviathaninteractive/project-lodus-a-cyberpunk-co-op-action-rpg/
01:38
g3gg0
:)
01:39
g3gg0
well, it mainly depends on publicity
01:39
intracube
28K on the last day and -just- makes the target :P
01:40
g3gg0
when it reaches the last week, people start to spread the word
01:41
g3gg0
iirc alex made a referrer link for the direct donations when following his link
01:41
intracube
maybe around halfway through most projects go on a promotion blitz
01:41
g3gg0
yeah
01:41
intracube
which then shows results in the last 1/4 of the project
01:46
g3gg0
still impressive that there is such a coincidence that on the day the most video news sites reported about ML supporting axiom, the money flow went up that massive
01:46
g3gg0
e.g. http://www.redsharknews.com/business/item/2060-breaking-news-the-axiom-camera-team-has-joined-up-with-magic-lantern
01:46
g3gg0
or planet5d etc
01:46
intracube
g3gg0: yeah, it looks likely that ML promotion had a significant effect
01:46
g3gg0
i guess that reached out much more people than before
01:46
Bertl
yeah, I still think this had a major part in it
01:47
intracube
having key people signed up matters and encourages others
01:47
intracube
ML, Philip Bloom, etc
01:47
g3gg0
i remember alex saying that his direct referrer made ~4k after 4 days (iirc)
01:48
g3gg0
but due to his internet problems, we didnt chat much since then :)
01:48
g3gg0
nevertheless, the race isnt over yet
01:48
g3gg0
4 days, 5kâ¬
01:49
g3gg0
hitting the goal is the most important now :)
01:49
Bertl
yes, but it looks a lot better than 10 days ago :)
01:49
g3gg0
i guess you mobilized also the sensor manufacturers?
01:49
intracube
that's about 4 â¬350 donations per day
01:50
g3gg0
i.e. asking them if they are willing to support?
01:50
g3gg0
i can imagine that they are interested in this project being successful too
01:50
intracube
Bertl: are the apertus° + AXIOM logos/text available as .SVG files anywhere?
01:51
Bertl
yes, I think so, but don't ask me where :)
01:52
intracube
is asking Bertl where :)
01:53
intracube
I didn't look enough: https://apertus.org/logo
01:54
g3gg0
Bertl: http://thndl.com/how-dng-compresses-raw-data-with-lossless-jpeg92.html could make it into MLV format
01:54
Bertl
intracube: k. will try to remember that one, but I think it doesn't have the AXIOM one
01:54
g3gg0
Andrew Baldwin made a really good MLV viewer and is trying to find a good RAW compression algorithm
01:54
intracube
Bertl: yep, I'm still looking for that
01:55
Bertl
g3gg0: yeah, the problem with lossless compression is that you still have to plan for full bandwidth
01:55
g3gg0
yep
01:55
g3gg0
you cannot rely on its success
01:55
Bertl
precisely
01:56
g3gg0
this codec doesnt make it into ML firmware
01:56
g3gg0
the cPU is too slow
01:56
Bertl
we probably want something small which can be put into the FPGA
01:57
g3gg0
its meant for archiving footage
01:57
Bertl
that's the only way to make it reasonably fast
01:58
intracube
for recording 300FPS, would it be possible to distribute the frames across multiple hardware h.264 encoders
01:59
Bertl
define hardware h.264 encoders
01:59
intracube
Bertl: standardized h.264 encoder chips
01:59
intracube
I guess most of them will max out at 30 or 60fps
02:00
Bertl
got a datasheet for me?
02:00
g3gg0
is leaving to get some sleep. 4 hours of sleep is minimum ;)
02:00
Bertl
sleep well then!
02:01
g3gg0
gn8 altogether
02:01
intracube
Bertl: not currently. but 5 chips running at 60fps each = 300
02:01
intracube
g3gg0: night :)
02:02
Bertl
that probably wont work, as it would mess up all temproal coding
02:02
Bertl
you would want to split the image in sectors
02:02
Bertl
and run each sector at 300FPS
02:02
intracube
yes, the chips would have to be running intra-frame mode
02:02
intracube
so the final stream wouldn't have a GOP structure
02:03
intracube
Bertl: wouldn't that be more complex to recombine back to a single stream?
02:04
Bertl
well, it would require recoding, not sure what your plans are though
02:05
g3gg0
left the channel
02:05
intracube
to have a final stream that's h.264, I-frame only, might be flagged as 25fps (so motion would playback 12x slower than normal)
02:06
intracube
as I doubt many media players (software or hardware) would handle a 300fps stream
02:07
Bertl
I don't think that you will be able to simply mix 5 overlapping (with a phase offset) streams together, but I might be wrong
02:07
intracube
Bertl: http://www.soctechnologies.com/piece.php?Id=191
02:08
intracube
Bertl: yes, simply appending frames from 5 independent encoders to a single stream might not work
02:08
Bertl
that's proprietary IP
02:08
intracube
likely there would be flags + other data that need to be there to be a proper muxed video file
02:09
intracube
Bertl: I guess most hardware encoders would be IP :/
02:10
intracube
h.264 encoders at any rate
02:10
Bertl
that's not a hardware part
02:10
Bertl
that is a netlist you can build an ASIC with or program an FPGA
02:11
Bertl
and you have to sign an NDA for that and pay big bucks to be able to use it, but you won't get any source
02:11
intracube
sorry, I know virtually nothing about hardware design
02:11
intracube
hmm
02:19
intracube
Bertl: http://www.nxp.com/products/identification_and_security/security_and_surveillance_ip_camera/ASC8852AET.html
02:19
intracube
same IP issues there?
02:21
Bertl
nope, that is hardware, but seems to require an NDA for the datasheet
02:21
Bertl
so, can't say very much right now, the leaflet doesn't give away too much
02:22
Bertl
but it seems to be an soc solution with an arm core and specialized hardware
02:41
wescotte
joined the channel
03:29
ItsMeLenny
joined the channel
03:32
Bertl
hey, it's you lenny! :)
03:45
ItsMeLenny
it is me lenny
03:45
ItsMeLenny
it's i
03:45
ItsMeLenny
its not you bert though
03:45
ItsMeLenny
it is bert1
03:45
ItsMeLenny
how are you
03:46
Bertl
no, actually it is BertL (get a decent client :)
03:46
ItsMeLenny
lol
03:46
ItsMeLenny
#couriernew
03:47
Bertl
but I'm used to folks calling me Bert-i and Bert-1 on IRC :)
03:47
ItsMeLenny
lol, if i want to ping someone i type a couple letters and hit tab so that should work Bertl
03:47
ItsMeLenny
yeah
03:47
Bertl
yup, same here ...
03:49
ItsMeLenny
i'd make a joke about people also calling you bert-[the japanese character that looks like a l] but i dont know what its called, ive only seen it on the DS XL japanese version
03:49
ItsMeLenny
http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Nintendo-3DS-XL1.jpg
03:50
ItsMeLenny
maybe i wouldve gotten better results if my google wasnt switched to german for some reason
03:50
Bertl
hehe
03:52
ItsMeLenny
axiom is nearly funded
03:53
Bertl
yes, it is looking good
03:54
ItsMeLenny
i like how axiom has put the sensor/lens mount in the centre of the camera, its one thing that drives me mad with both DSLRs and point and shoots
03:54
ItsMeLenny
as theyre uncentred, if that wasnt clear :p
03:55
Bertl
I can relate
03:56
wescotte
left the channel
04:04
even
joined the channel
04:04
even
hellos
04:04
ItsMeLenny
although i havent helped fund
04:04
ItsMeLenny
many hellos
04:04
Bertl
even: that's odd :)
04:05
even
i came to hang up paper streamers :D
04:05
Bertl
great! show them to us!
04:05
ItsMeLenny
can i have one?
04:06
even
hehe well you still have to wait 4 days
04:06
ItsMeLenny
tease us with these paper streamers and then not share!
04:06
Bertl
yeah, shame on you!
04:07
ItsMeLenny
permaban!
04:07
ItsMeLenny
:P
04:07
even
=)
04:10
even
bertl: even is my real name =)
04:11
even
i've been following the project for quite some time
04:12
Bertl
cool name, can't compete with that
04:12
even
looks great so far. can't wait to have it in my hands
04:12
Bertl
what are you going to do with it, if you don't mind sharing?
04:13
even
i'll put it on my drone and try to take over the world... just kidding =)
04:16
even
I'm looking forward to shoot some music videos.
04:17
even
and sorry for my bad english... i'm from germany
04:17
ItsMeLenny
people who speak english can't even speak it properly, so nobody noticed
04:18
Bertl
I'm not a native english speaker either, so no need to apologize
04:18
ItsMeLenny
i thought axiom was german
04:20
Bertl
no, not really :)
04:25
even
it's from these guys.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm6TSVRi-BA
04:25
ItsMeLenny
that video is unavailable with safety mode enabled
04:26
even
don't worry haha it's nothing important just funny as a flying banana
04:27
ItsMeLenny
whens inspector rex come in
04:38
wescotte
joined the channel
04:49
even
is there an estimated weight of the system already? *points at the beta concept model*
04:50
even
i know that question might be to early but i need some numbers to calculate with.
04:50
Bertl
not really, we did a few checks on the electronics side, but as the case/mount materials are still undecided, it's problematic
04:52
even
>1kg incl. lensmount?
04:52
Bertl
the MicroZed is about 45g, the Beta PCB with parts and socket will be about the same
04:52
Bertl
add two shields and the dual microSD, you'll get about 150g without case, sensor, mount and cooling
04:54
Bertl
mount and case can go between 50g and 500g I guess, depending on the materials used
04:54
Bertl
you need to add a lens system to that, but that can be rather light as well
04:56
Bertl
(the nikkor lens we used on the Alpha has about 170g)
04:56
even
nice thank you
04:57
Bertl
so if you want to use a quad copter or similar you probably want to avoid a heavy case and use light materials for lens mount and lens system, and of course, high density batteries
04:58
even
yap that was my thought. it's a self made cinestar x8
05:00
Bertl
nice! anyway, I'm off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
05:00
Bertl
changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
05:00
even
sleep well
05:40
Nathan___
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06:05
Nathan___
left the channel
06:13
ItsMeLenny
left the channel
07:38
Hyuri
joined the channel
08:51
g3gg0
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08:56
daFred
joined the channel
09:05
daFred
even: at the moment the stack of pcb's and the lensmount is planned to be held by a sturdy part including tripod thread. So for development it should work without housing. The lightest housing would be a plastic bag :-))
09:09
even
what about duck tape? :D
09:09
daFred
as the design is open source there could be lightweight versions in the community too. In the moment I'm thinking of a cast variant ranging from aluminium or transparent plastics or even ceramics...
09:10
dmjnova
even: you're interested in the axiom for drone use?
09:11
daFred
duck tape holds the world together :-)) btw is it open source??
09:14
dmjnova
what drone are you flying now?
09:14
even
daFred: i've seen the design. i have the possibilites to mill parts myself. got a 5 axis cnc and a 3 axis cnc at my work place so if anyone needs help. feel free to shoot at me. i can't use it everyday but weekends is np.daFred: i've seen the design. i have the possibilites to mill cases got a 5x cnc and a 3x cnc at my work place
09:15
even
whoops sorry
09:15
even
dmjnova: i built a cinestar x8
09:15
even
it's not completly done yet but mostly =)
09:16
even
i'm designing the gimbal at the moment
09:17
even
i was planning to buy a 5dm3
09:17
even
because of ml =)
09:18
even
but i'm pretty confident that this project will be awesome in a few years. the possibilities are endless
09:18
even
so i passed on the 5d for now
09:21
even
a live streaming module would be dope
09:21
even
2,4 or 5.8 ghz
09:22
dmjnova
noted :D
09:22
dmjnova
designing your own gimbal, sounds familiar
09:23
dmjnova
axiom should be much nicer for drone flying than epic
09:23
even
hehe apart from the electronics
09:23
dmjnova
what will you be doing for gimbal controller?
09:23
even
alexmos 32bit 3 axis
09:24
dmjnova
was just tuning a gimbal with one of those
09:24
even
how is it? i haven't ordered it yet?
09:25
dmjnova
be very conscientious about IMU wire length
09:25
dmjnova
where were you going to order from?
09:25
even
sec have to look
09:25
even
http://flyduino.net/Brushless-Gimbal
09:27
dmjnova
Had some problems using frame IMU with the RCTimer one
09:27
dmjnova
so the onboard frame IMU sounds like a great idea
09:28
dmjnova
otherwise seemed to work great until it came to tuning the yaw axis
09:29
even
what motors and camera are you using?
09:30
dmjnova
that particular one was using the NEX, don't remember what motors
09:30
dmjnova
something brushless obviously
09:30
dmjnova
but that was just tuning an existing gimbal
09:30
dmjnova
designing a gimbal currently as well though
09:31
even
nice!
09:32
even
yeah it's tricky but best is learning by doing =)
09:32
even
i really like the mövis but the prices are insane
09:41
dmjnova
I happen to work at a multirotor manufacturer
09:41
dmjnova
so the axiom is pretty darn interesting
09:41
dmjnova
of course I was already into the axiom before that
09:43
dmjnova
hmm...the cinestar really could have more lifting capacity
09:43
even
conclusion: we need an apertus gimbal, an apertus timlapse slider and an apertus robot arm (kuka like) for slowmotion shots with micrometer precision. lol
09:44
dmjnova
nods knowingly
09:45
even
g3gg0: love you guys!
09:46
even
http://vimeo.com/94871761 =)
09:51
Hyuri
left the channel
09:51
dmjnova
the look reminds me of The New World
09:54
dmjnova
quite steady
09:54
even
have a look at that one i love the flying shots http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ_IQS3VKjA
10:02
dmjnova
that's some nice clear action shooting
10:03
dmjnova
beautiful gopro footage aside
11:13
philippej
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11:27
daFred
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daFred
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daFred
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12:53
philippej
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13:11
Bertl_zZ
changed nick to: Bertl
13:11
Bertl
morning folks!
13:14
Bertl
96.5k \o/
13:20
Gegsite
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Gegsite
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Gegsite
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13:26
philippej
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13:37
Gegsite
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13:47
nnailer
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13:49
danieel
Bertl / g3gg0 - i would rather see a side by side comparison of the two chips - but there is a lot of possibility to do software based corrections - the actual harware plays a minor role
13:53
philippej
danieel, I guess it's always better to have actual sample files, since you never know what a specific sensor will bring in reality. It might be interesting to see if the software side strategies can be reused for different sensors.
13:57
Bertl
of course I meant unmodified i.e. sensor raw data, with and without sensor side corrections enabled
14:00
wescotte
left the channel
14:12
danieel
yes but of what subject - e.g. the sensor behaves very different when in complete darkness, and when even a tiny light hits it
14:12
danieel
we found a lot of strange things on the live 4k setup we have now
14:13
Bertl
dark frames, IIRC
14:13
Bertl
that's what alexML required
14:13
danieel
even after a fpn is removed (substractive) there is a fixed pattern remaining
14:13
Bertl
yes, that is why there are two components of FPN
14:14
danieel
unless the frames are taken under controlled conditions, the results are hard to compare to anything
14:14
nnailer
Thank you for adding a third batch of the super35's. I just heard about the project from Magic Lantern and made my contribution almost immediately after.
14:15
Bertl
you're welcome!
14:15
nnailer
Do you know if VAT will be added on to orders shipped to USA?
14:16
danieel
Bertl: the 1 min video is showing the kac with "super35" text in same time :) lol
14:17
Bertl
yeah, result from cutting down the video, we filmed the KAC but not the CMV at this time
14:18
nnailer
Never mind. I think I found my answer at http://www.brighton-accountants.com/blog/vat-uk-usa/. VAT is not added to orders shipped to USA.
14:18
philippej
nnailer : it shouldn't.
14:18
philippej
you might have to pay some import duties
14:18
nnailer
Cool. One less thing for my wife to freak out about :)
14:18
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
14:18
philippej
:-)
14:19
nnailer
I probably should've waited for her to wake up before I gave $440 USD up for a beta. I couldn't risk it though. Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission sometimes.
14:19
Bertl
nnailer: we still have to figure out the best way to get everything to the users
14:19
philippej
the good thing is that it's already a low risk proposal, since you fund only the development for now, you don't have to put the whole money on the table now
14:19
Bertl
for example it might be "better" to order all the MicroZed (or PicoZed) designated for the US, within the US
14:19
se6astian
good afternoon!
14:20
nnailer
Good morning.
14:20
philippej
afternoon !
14:20
Bertl
morning! :)
14:21
Bertl
I just got up an hour ago *G*
14:22
nnailer
Is there a getting started section for new developers to get up to speed on contributing?
14:23
Bertl
not yet, but if you are going down that path, maybe help creating one on the wiki or so?
14:23
nnailer
I don't know where to start. I am a developer by trade though and I would like to contribute.
14:24
se6astian
there are general pages
14:24
se6astian
https://apertus.org/contribute
14:24
se6astian
and https://apertus.org/join-the-team
14:24
se6astian
though non technical details related
14:25
nnailer
Are you guys tracking defects ?
14:25
Bertl
nnailer: what have you been developing so far?
14:25
se6astian
you mean a bugtracker, its planned yes
14:25
Bertl
nnailer: not yet, but a bug/feature tracker is in the works
14:25
nnailer
Anything that is requested ranging from low level touch screen and printer drivers to high level javascript webapps.
14:27
nnailer
Currently an IVR developer primarily working with C, VXML, Java, and Javascript.
14:27
Bertl
sounds good, how about embedded systems? microcontroller? FPGA?
14:28
nnailer
I've dabbled with ladder logic, stepper motors and such. Not much experience outside of that.
14:28
Bertl
okay, no problem
14:29
philippej
whare are we on the bugtracker side btw?
14:29
Bertl
nnailer: what platforms? Linux? MacOS? Windows?
14:30
nnailer
Primarily windows and linux.
14:30
nnailer
Current day job is linux.
14:31
Bertl
okay, sounds good ... my suggestion would be to get a Zynq based development board which can be reused for the Beta later and get comfortable with that first
14:32
Bertl
unless you want to work on the "other side" i.e. outside the camera on applets or other stuff required to communicate with the camera
14:32
nnailer
I've worked with FFMPEG code in the past and wrote FLIC rendering into SDL among other things.
14:32
nnailer
Not sure that there is much crossover there.
14:32
Bertl
yeah, SDL is nice, I've been using it for many things, but I do not see an application there right now
14:33
nnailer
I would like to work on both sides if possible but I think my immediate experience lends more towards the software side..
14:33
Bertl
yeah I was referring to software on both sides
14:34
nnailer
Ahh. I meant the fluffy side.
14:35
se6astian
current status on bugtracker: we used buggenie in the past, good user experience but it unfortunately was not really ready for production sites - got flooded with spam and has pretty much no countermeasures so we had to close it again; I am hesitant to deploy something like bugzilla because its a total overkill for our target audience as it will consists of a lot of non-software developers so we need to make sure the system is easy to navigate and re
14:35
nnailer
Are you guys using the Zynq 7020 for beta?
14:35
se6astian
we should test buggenie though maybe they fixed it by now
14:36
Bertl
Zynq Z-7010/7015/7020 yes
14:37
Bertl
se6astian: I had good experiences with bugzilla, it is rather straight forward
14:37
regnirps
left the channel
14:38
nnailer
Any specific model that I should get Bertl?
14:39
Bertl
we will definitely do a Beta for the MicroZed 7010/7020 (in this case I'd go for the 7020)
14:40
Bertl
but we also plan a Beta variant using the new PicoZed 7015
14:40
Bertl
(which might be a little further down the road)
14:40
Bertl
and we plan to make another variant based on the Parallella board
14:40
Bertl
which features an Epiphany core in addition to the Zynq
14:41
danieel
what will the PB do?
14:42
Bertl
PB?
14:42
danieel
parallella board
14:42
Juicyfruit
se6astian, for a bugtracker / issue tracker / patch tracker the blender project uses phabricator and I am very happy with it in terms of features and interface and use patterns
14:43
Bertl
danieel: mostly processing image data I guess
14:43
philippej
we could try to compare bugzilla, mantis and phabricator
14:45
Juicyfruit
philippej, it mostly depends on what you as a project want and need to get out of the software .
14:45
nnailer
Any vender recommendation Bertl? digilentinc.com has a 7010 dev board for $189 USD.
14:45
Juicyfruit
phabricator has really nice patch review and in is a lot more then just a bugtracker
14:46
Bertl
nnailer: no recommendations, wherever it is readily available and the price acceptable you can go for it
14:46
Bertl
(but consider the 7020 version for the MicroZed, it has more I/Os)
14:47
Bertl
and get one of those Xilinx programming cables, they simplify interfacing the board till you get a Beta Board
14:48
nnailer
Thanks Bertl
14:48
philippej
Juicyfruit
14:49
Juicyfruit
philippej, yes
14:49
philippej
Juicyfruit, it will probably depend of the ease of use for non developpers
14:49
philippej
(sorry, pressed return too soon :-) )
14:49
Juicyfruit
philippej, well i would just look around on https://developer.blender.org/ :)
14:49
philippej
since developpers usually have some special abilities to use non straightforward tools
14:50
philippej
It looks really nice btw
14:50
Juicyfruit
philippej, it was made by facebook people i think they even use it
14:51
Bertl
one important thing is that there is some kind of email interface
14:51
Bertl
i.e. notifications about updates at least and email replies would be highly appreciated
14:52
Bertl
from the interface, the developer.blender.org looks fine to me
14:53
nnailer
I have to take off for now. I will place my order for the 7020 and stop back in soon. Thanks again for this awesome work. I hope to help in the near future.
14:53
Bertl
nnailer: you're welcome! and looking forward to it!
14:53
philippej
inbound email documented here : https://secure.phabricator.com/book/phabricator/article/configuring_inbound_email/
14:54
philippej
See you nnailer !
14:57
even
gn8 =)
14:58
even
left the channel
14:58
mars_
over 97k!
15:03
Bertl
\o/
15:03
Gegsite
joined the channel
15:09
se6astian
ok gotta run
15:09
se6astian
see you later
15:09
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
15:47
Bertl
98k \o/
15:49
philippej
2k to go
15:51
Gegsite
will make
15:55
Gegsite
dont the mega :P
15:55
Gegsite
Done the Mega :)
15:56
Bertl
great!
15:57
Gegsite
just for the T-shirt lol
16:04
comradekingu
wont a lens mount in aluminium be lighter and better for heat dissipation?
16:05
comradekingu
with some ridges on the outside it doubles as a capable heatsink and grip for holding the camera
16:05
seku
joined the channel
16:06
seku
hiyas! congrats on reaching the 98k!! and random greetings from canada. taking the plane home tonight and looking forward to see how the campaign ends :)
16:06
mars_
thx seku!
16:07
seku
coming home with 1.5 tera of ML raw video ... i wonder how i will cope with 4k raw with the axiom ^^;
16:09
seku
now .. packing up. ill be joining the chat more regularly again when im home.
16:13
seku
cya tomorrow
16:13
mars_
cya
16:13
seku
left the channel
16:20
Gegsite
left the channel
16:22
mars_
98.6k, getting closer
16:25
Bertl
I think we might make the goal tonight
16:25
jucar1
left the channel
16:27
jucar
joined the channel
16:27
philippej
left the channel
16:29
mars_
that would be awesome
16:39
comradekingu
sent mail to my other videographer aquaintance
17:03
philippej
joined the channel
18:09
g3gg0
Bertl: if you want to provide a1ex raw images he can use to determine sensor quality, there are various methods to do so
18:10
g3gg0
a) static scene with deepest shadows (light trap) and overexposed areas, totally out of focus (blurry) so you have gradients. this shot with every ISO the sensor has, at least two images per ISO. (fixed position, no movement at all)
18:12
g3gg0
b) total uniform gray shots without any visible pattern. doable with e.g. a tissue over the lens pointing into sky (of course no focus at all) also at different ISOs
18:12
g3gg0
a) is for determining DR and noise and b) is for FPN measurement. (plus a few dark frames of course)
18:14
g3gg0
i think if he can get hands on these raw images, he can run his statistics tools and present you DxO-Mark like results :)
18:14
jucar
left the channel
18:15
Bertl
yeah, that was the idea, danieel can you do that?
18:16
jucar
joined the channel
18:22
Q_
I was thinking about doing some stats too, but didn't get around to it yet.
18:23
intracube
â¬99,000 :)
18:24
comradekingu
alluring 99%
18:41
se6astian|away
changed nick to: se6astian
18:41
se6astian
back
18:44
se6astian
99% - I think now is a good point to consider if we really want to build a camera..... :P
18:45
Bertl
nah :)
18:46
se6astian
I have always been really fund of cookery you know
18:47
se6astian
erm I mean *fond :)
18:48
Bertl
let's make an open source hot-plate then :)
18:54
se6astian
I read on heise there is great demand for it!
18:55
philippej
left the channel
18:56
troy_s
Congrats se6astian / Bertl
18:57
Bertl
thanks! congratulations/thanks to the community!
18:57
troy_s
g3gg0: You can profile without the full sensor diffuse white and a light trap for black.
18:57
troy_s
You basically add two synthetic points into your profiles for generating after you have done the first pass in processing them.
18:58
troy_s
This allows the resultant LUT or matrix to span the full range, with proper correct values.
18:59
troy_s
If you use real-world white / black, you are A) likely to never get the true values of black and white B) are subject to the worst regions of sensor capture etc.
18:59
troy_s
The resultant profile will almost always likely be a skewed mess.
19:08
wescotte
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19:21
Legendin
joined the channel
19:21
danieel
troy_s: do you know how to do a 3x3 matrix math in Baselight?
19:21
danieel
seems that there is no such functionality easily available
19:22
troy_s
danieel: You can do a transform in Baselight. Any reason you are using Baselight for it?
19:22
troy_s
Just use OCIO and OIIO's tools. Lean and weaponized.
19:22
Q_
So I'm looking at one of the darkframe images. Does it have known dead pixels?
19:22
troy_s
(And utterly configurable)
19:22
danieel
we had our matrix written on paper, and wanted to apply to the reels we got
19:22
troy_s
danieel: Then use OCIO / OIIO. Want me to set up a config for you?
19:22
danieel
we found just a rather complicated profile setup for in/out conversion
19:23
danieel
no.. i wanted to do it as an effect
19:23
danieel
like realtime :)
19:23
troy_s
Say what?
19:23
troy_s
Snag Resolve then.
19:24
se6astian
Q_: yes there are 8 dead pixels AFAIR
19:24
danieel
ok, i thought so that different sw would be better for the task
19:24
Q_
I think I see 5?
19:24
Bertl
you won't see black sensel on the dark frame I guess
19:25
Q_
I guess so too.
19:25
troy_s
danieel: Honestly though, you can do it with GPU and OCIO.
19:26
troy_s
danieel: Hell, you could do it in Blender if you wanted.
19:26
troy_s
danieel: Dead easy. Just set the transform as a spimtx file (a 4x3 matrix with far right column being 16 bit offsets (0))
19:27
troy_s
danieel: Then set up a view. Done.
19:28
troy_s
If you want help, it would take me four minutes.
19:28
troy_s
Dead simple.
19:28
danieel
no need to, offline i can do it too
19:30
troy_s
danieel: OCIO can be online ;)
19:31
troy_s
danieel: Use a quickie python script and GPU.
19:31
troy_s
You won't get tetrahedral interp, but you can demo it (and CDL) using the GPU.
19:31
danieel
just noticed that 4.4 release got a matrix :) we were on a 4.3 setup
19:32
troy_s
But a matrix is kind of crap.
19:32
troy_s
You probably want a 3D LUT for a camera profile demo.
19:32
danieel
no i did not, i wanted to mess with the channels with a matrix
19:36
aombk
joined the channel
19:36
aombk
hi everybody
19:36
troy_s
danieel: Mess? There is a right and a wrong, no real inbetween.
19:37
troy_s
danieel: Unless it is a creative twist, but that would slug in after the camera transform.
19:44
philippej
joined the channel
19:45
philippej
964 euros and we'll finaly be able to work on the pong appliance
19:47
se6astian
philippej: damn how did you figure out where the entire budget would go?
19:48
troy_s
se6astian: How is your plan looking? 100k ⬠doesn't buy a lot of time for certain.
19:48
Q_
Their seems to be a weird pattern to the samples from that dark frame.
19:48
danieel
what is the weirdeness?
19:49
danieel
g3gg0: is somewhere that evaluation script? or it is hand work?
19:50
Q_
The first 2 rows have all samples zero (except 2), the other rows have around 100 pixels zero at the start and end of each row.
19:51
g3gg0
danieel: a1ex uses matlab and a bunch of selfmade scripts. i dont have them, but he posted some of them in forums
19:51
Q_
I guess you could also see that on images that a1ex made.
19:52
se6astian
99.4%
19:52
Legendin
left the channel
19:53
se6astian
troy_s: we built the AXIOM Alpha with less than 10K⬠- for the Beta this funding will open up a new world of possibilities! :)
19:53
troy_s
I know
20:00
daFred
joined the channel
20:02
Bertl
evening daFred!
20:03
daFred
evening, happy crowd funding!!!
20:03
Q_
Any idea where that pattern comes from?
20:05
Bertl
Q_: no idea, there might be up to 16 columns black (the so called black columns) but not up to 100, and certainly the rows at the top are not special in any way
20:12
danieel
se6astian: material cost for my kac model is ~ 4000e, and it can record 4k video and has sdi link :) so i wonder what did cost 10k on the alpha
20:13
Bertl
we built two of them, no?
20:13
Bertl
besides, not everybody is as efficient as you are :)
20:14
Bertl
to compensate for that, we are doing FOSS/OH not proprietary cameras :)
20:16
g3gg0
whose F5 button already broke?
20:17
Bertl
what does F5 do for you?
20:17
g3gg0
reload the indiegogo page
20:17
philippej
they probably have a cache of at least one minute to compensate for people like you (and me) :-)
20:20
se6astian
danieel: mainly booze
20:26
daFred
I fear I need a new Safari window when the campaign is over.... and a couple of new reload buttons...
20:27
Bertl
just take the 600 EUR perk and do a single reload :)
20:29
Bertl
but we still have 3 days left :)
20:31
daFred
Se6astian I think it's time to make special offer for the Platinum Deluxe pay one, take two
20:33
philippej
latest update is nice !
20:35
philippej
(talking about that : https://vimeo.com/107801527 )
20:37
se6astian
daFred: I was thinking about just giving away everything for free from now on :)
20:38
wescotte
philippej: reminded me of Upstream Color
20:38
wescotte
se6astian: I want my 5 euros back then! :)
20:45
Gegsite
joined the channel
20:47
aombk
there is an auto reload addon for firefox
20:49
se6astian
wescotte: no refunds, we already used your 5⬠for buying rocket fuel for our escape!
20:50
intracube
â¬99,786!
20:51
se6astian
woah, so close!
20:51
philippej
(no need to reload anything, just have an irc client open :-) )
20:51
Bertl
goal reached!
20:51
Bertl
\o/
20:51
philippej
!!!!!!!
20:51
se6astian
HURRAY!!!
20:51
intracube
woooooo! :)
20:52
intracube
congratulations se6astian, Bertl and the other Apertus folk :)
20:52
aombk
congratulations people
20:52
Gegsite
YEEEAAAHHH
20:52
intracube
\o/
20:52
aombk
very nice and clever campaign
20:56
wescotte
congrats guys
20:58
Bertl
thanks to everyone for making this possible!
20:59
se6astian
you guys rock :D
20:59
Gegsite
could be a stat in a map what country did the support, to money and amount :P
20:59
beat_b
joined the channel
21:00
beat_b
Congrats team!
21:00
beat_b
â¬100,136EUR raised of â¬100,000 goal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
21:00
Bertl
thanks!
21:01
beat_b
I am sooooooooooo happy for all of us :-)
21:01
daFred
yeah baby yeahhh, all the best!!!!
21:02
g3gg0
congratulations
21:05
wescotte
Now get the Horizon 2020!
21:09
KurtAugust
joined the channel
21:09
KurtAugust
Apertus: Ok guys, get to work! Congratulations...
21:10
Bertl
thanks, but we are already working on the Beta :p
21:12
wescotte
You were clicking refresh 24/7 for the past 26 days!
21:13
Bertl
hehe, no, I was just clicking reload at the right time, i.e. right after we passed the goal :)
21:13
KurtAugust
left the channel
21:20
jucar
left the channel
21:20
jucar
joined the channel
21:24
Legendin
joined the channel
21:26
Bertl
wb Legendin!
21:27
troy_s
Et voila.
21:27
philippej
une bonne chose de faite.
21:31
se6astian
moved up the stretch goals in the campaign site
21:34
se6astian
WORLD NEWS brings the latest update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q5wGasoiXE
21:34
aombk
i like the idea of backers funding the development, not prepaying for a future product
21:34
wescotte
I think you guys did a great job with your stretch goals. Often they have one serious one and all the rest are just wishful thinking. All of these feel very feasible both in the ability to deliver and the amount of extra funds to raise.
21:34
aombk
and gaining a discount in the process
21:40
comradekingu
se6astian: i think the changes to the explanation page make sense while the campaign is live too.
21:41
comradekingu
Those who already know are onboard, but it might win over more people who are only videographers atm
21:41
comradekingu
100% :))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
21:42
g3gg0_
joined the channel
21:43
aombk
when will we get our buttons?
21:43
comradekingu
buttons?
21:44
g3gg0
left the channel
21:45
se6astian
Roberto Schaefer, ASC just emailed me: "right on! I'll chill one here too." (champagne)
21:46
Bertl
nice!
21:50
aombk
the buttorn perk
21:50
aombk
button perk
21:51
Legendin
left the channel
21:52
comradekingu
i think the people who arent quite sure are still on the fence
21:52
Bertl
aombk: I guess as soon as possible, right when the campaign is over or so ... involves some logistics
21:58
troy_s
OK... Where's the camera?
21:59
Bertl
right beside me ... a few months in the future :)
22:00
philippej
See you all "tomorow" for the rest of the story!
22:00
Bertl
yeah, have a good night philippe!
22:05
philippej
left the channel
22:11
beat_b
left the channel
22:21
wescotte
troy_s: you didn't get yours yet? Strange... Mine shipped out the same day I donated!
22:28
Gegsite
left the channel
22:43
troy_s
Bertl: I need a series of raws (the bayered footage) for a short.
22:43
troy_s
Bertl: Are there any of the shots in raw format out there? I need it for testing memory and such.
22:45
Bertl
testing memory in what way?
22:46
Bertl
I mean, why not simply take a raw or two and repeat them (forever)
22:52
troy_s
Bertl: Because I'm spending a teeny bit of time on a lab app and I need a whole shot.
22:52
troy_s
I could repeat them
22:52
troy_s
but I'm more interested in a real-world shot
23:00
troy_s
Bertl: Not fussy, but something with a human in it would be great.
23:00
Bertl
well, we only have time lapse in 4k raw, and it takes ages to upload
23:01
Bertl
because transferring a 4k raw image takes about 10 seconds on the Alpha
23:04
Bertl
and no human in it of course, just a garden from sunrise to sunset
23:05
Bertl
(maybe sebastian has done other time lapse tests)
23:11
troy_s
Bertl: I'd take anything at this point honestly.
23:11
troy_s
Bertl: Anything than a fricking still of an IT8 LOL
23:28
Bertl
a small sequence will show up here: http://vserver.13thfloor.at/Stuff/AXIOM/ALPHA/TL/
23:28
Bertl
takes about 10 minutes per frame to upload
23:31
daFred_
joined the channel
23:32
g3gg0_
left the channel
23:34
daFred
left the channel
23:52
troy_s
Bertl: Love you. Thanks.
23:52
troy_s
Bertl: If I gave you an IAM share at S3, would that be faster?
23:53
troy_s
Or is the crimp at the upload side?
23:54
Bertl
it's the upload which is the limiting factor here
23:54
Bertl
but in a few seconds, you have already 3 frames :)
23:58
Bertl
they will be quite similar, as they are in short sequence, i.e. 60 seconds apart each or so
00:04
wescotte
left the channel
00:07
__anton__
joined the channel
00:07
__anton__
Congrats, great day :)
00:08
Bertl
thanks! and yes!! we made it!
00:14
se6astian
ok long day already
00:14
se6astian
good night!
00:14
se6astian
changed nick to: se6astian|away
00:18
Bertl
troy_s: do you need more than seven frames?