#apertus IRC Channel Logs

Hey man, how are you going?

I've got some nice news for you

https://www.apertus.org/small-cinemas-vs-the-DCI-article

Yeah, I've seen it

We'll be arriving in Berlin on Dec 28th, heading to Hamburg to meet up with my brother and his wife & 2 kids for two days, then heading back to Berlin until 2nd Jan 2014.

Ohhh, fantastic!

Hey, going back to the Small cinema vs DCI article

thats great

I'm looking forward to it!

What type of winter coats would you recommend we wear?

The heavy and thick variety?

the text is divided into 3 colouns to increase reability

http://www.stefanjud.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Wiener_Christkindlmarkt_Rathaus.jpg

and that is the colder day: http://www.christkindlmarkt.at/fileadmin/gallery/rathauspark/02_WienerKugel_0909_0748.jpg

She probably won't enjoy the cold, but she'll love the markets :D

I personally find a narrow single column of text easier to follow

its a science :)

I agree

I switched the second text block to 2 coloums full justify

maybe making the divider line between the coloumns darker to give the blocks more visual separation could also help increase readability

The three columns at the top seems a little squashed or crowded

I turned the top block to 2 coloumns as well now

Yeah, that looks great. And maybe add a line break between the text and picture so there's a little more "white / empty" space on the page

done

great, I will continue like this then!

Cool

Seeing that sites like NoFilmSchool, Red Shark and Philip Bloom's blog, etc already have so much coverage of all cinema news / tech / film-making, I was wondering if it might be wise to not limit the portal's coverage to ONLY film related news

sounds good

A lot of people might be looking for alternatives to the Adobe ecosystem now that it's all gone into the "creative cloud"

maybe that way we can get those lazy people off their asses to do something for the project :)

the mailing list has 25+ members already

I dont know what they need

good question. I'm not sure. Perhaps they're waiting for something?

morning everyone!

I did some research about 1.8" ssds and usb 3 cradles

there are none

so what I propose is that we just build something like this: http://geizhals.at/?cat=hdzub&asd=on&asuch=sata%20usb3%20adapter into the drive bays where the 1.8" SSDs are slided in to dock with

(i.e. not sure what 'like this' is referring to)

(than modify an existing adapter)

why would we need a custom one? or what advantage would it have over existing solutions?

second, AFAIK, there is no adapter with a defined interface USB 3.0 backplane style

and finally, we want to minimize power and space, no?

the best I could find is SDI/3G chips from texas instruments

ad USB3 backplane style -> we put the SATA to USB3 bridge ( the geizhals links) into the cameras drive bays, so they stay there

and the position of the connectors on the physical drive seems to be standardized

some with cables, others without

you mean, they convert USB 3.0 to sata? :)

http://geizhals.at/raidsonic-icy-box-ib-ac603a-u3-2-5-sata-auf-usb-3-0-adapter-a836454.html

both perfect :)

we connect the USB3 cable to our zynq PCB

the SATA adapter is screwed to the camera internal drive bay

and you want to do what exactly with the two adapter bricks and the cable?

put the brick into the camera body so the SATA connector is placed at the end of the 1.8" drivebay

well, first, I haven't seen such an adapter for 1.8" yet

but do you really want to put a lot of cable inside the camera?

as I said, I'd understand if you say we put the SSD pack somewhere else and just have one/two USB3 cables running from the camera to the pack

especially as I do not see any advantage of this approach

the sata<-> usb3 adapter itself is indendent of the physical dimensions of the disk isnt it?

- it will be a lot larger than necessary

the advantage is that we save time/effort/money and get the same features by using things that are already available

(which doesn't include drive bays)

or sata if we find a sata solution

or maybe even go for 3x SDI-3G and build ontop of that

the connectors can be pulled out easily, no water, dust protection, and we would also need to come up with a way to attach the drives to the camera in a convinient way

or do you think that sata is water proof?

so you need to design a ventilated but IP-44? catridge?

I think we should focus on getting the camera working this century :)

if we have so many resources available to do all those things, it will be trivial to adapt the camera and/or create a proper interface board later

so IMHO the focus should be on

- processing unit

- control/network in/out

(basically for free)

note that my recent test have shown that it doesn't achieve the full gbit speed (yet) but that might have many reasons

which might even come cheaper than the GTX ports in the end

what limitations do we have with that?

it would cost 5 LVDS channels and push the limits of the PL (at 3G)

btw without compression even 2 Gbit isnt even enough for UHD at 25 FPS

depends on the chip/package

let me grab the zynq model list

for the xc7z20 the clg484 package is the largest

the 676 package has 75 differential pairs AFAICT

the 484 package has 96 HR differential pairs

we need 67 pairs for the sensor

so that would leave 5 SDI-3G channels

(on the 484 package) assumed that we do not need any other interfaces which connect via LVD

and I definitely think we should focus on getting the beforementioned stuff working and not on things like attaching hard drives or displays or whatnot (but that's just my opinion :)

as far as I understood there are perfectly fine solutions for attaching your favorite whatever to your camera

sounds weird but we need to sell the camera before we can make it

the concept is what people will "buy" in the crowdfunding campaign

sure we should find something that is realistic, but we should also be aware that it doesnt need to be up and running tomorrow then

but as I said, the focus should be on the essential parts at least in my opinion

i.e. what we want to build in hardware and code in software?

don't get me wrong, a good design is essential (look and feel) and having options and features is also good (you are doing a good job there, no question)

from July 10th

thanks

luckily I have no problem being the 'bad guy' who always says 'that doesn't work :)'

so from the Axiom concept, what interfaces do we have to the outside?

SDI/3G (probably works, GTX or 5x LVDS)

Ethernet (we know that works, but at lower than expected speeds)

for version one, called "Axiom HD" in the concept image all we need is one 3G-SDI output and a power in connector, plus a usb or ethernet port internally for remote control of camera

USB 3.0 (we assume it works, there is also hardware available)

for version two called "Axiom 4K" in the concept image: usb3 or sataIII or SFP+ or something else...?

yes

(without any crc or similar)

which brings us to the question: do we need/want to build the recording device?

before we started rethinking sata we saw no other option

*no other option than an external recorder device

(besides ethernet for controlling the device)

but what about the recorder side then?

if we design a concept for a connector/IO board (like for the sensor frontend)

and at a later time, we can provide SATA/USB/whatever there

or simply plug in our own recorder

we can provide a PC based solution with the 4x SDI 3G

connector IO board for a pc ?

yes, there are lots of SDI PCIe cards

1000$ from blackmagic: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/decklink/models

that is 6G-SDI

indeed

8 SDI ports

one sfp+ link to a PC

and we start with having only SDI ports on that, or maybe only USB 3.0 ports if that is preferred for whatever reason

we can always extend that with a SATA I/O board which directly conencts to the disks for example

but how do we decide what to show in the concept for the future?

a modular concept and a basic design?

like for example with existing designs for connectors and PCB dimensions/outlines, etc

for a modular approach we would need to decide on the interfaces between the modules though

showing different modular options is also a great way to clearly show that these things define "what we could do" not "what we will do"

i.e. have some mechanism to attach a number of slices (including case) onto eachother

which in the basic configuration consists of the SFE, the MAIN slice and one IO slice finishing off with the battery pack

we definitely need to make it high speed to low speed

but something like the FMC (just with a more flexible concept) would do

and we would need to route power through it as well, so we probably need a high power connector as well

we probably want to reserve one side for the connectors

http://www.tvtechnology.com/uploadedImages/TV_Technology/The_Reference_Room/f-FRANK%283%29.jpg

so that would leave two sides for the high speed connections and the oposing side for power connections

well, I didn't expect us to be the first there

definitely

so modules would rather be flat than a cube each

http://www.negativespaces.com/storage/quick-photo/IMG_0270.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1303685704712

no, 90° compared to that

the connectors would go to the left or right

the stack interconnect would be top/bottom (and the other side)

ok, exactly the red concept then :)

anyway, with SMT, we can have connectors on both sides, given that we have enough layers to handle them properly

alternatively, we could do a backplane concept

but that would limit/fix the thickness of the slices and the number of modules

I will adapt the concept and come up with something in 3d soon

ok time to go home now

can you link me to the red concept?

http://camerarentalz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/red-scarlet.jpg

i.e. for obvious reasons we want to keep it simple, so

we do not need a closed module

i.e. the modules can consist of the PCB and just a frame around it

if you have to take the camera appart to access them

take the red module and remove the sides where they connect to eachother

and has connectors on each 'open' side to plug into another module

the last element will be the battery or if no battery is used/required, a stub just closing the stack

and they would plug into eachother similar to the PCBs

going through the entire camera body

good idea

see you