| 23:18 | troy_s | Hi Bertl
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| 23:19 | Bertl | hey troy_s! how's going?
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| 23:33 | troy_s | Bertl: flipping to desktop
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| 23:34 | troy_s1 | joined the channel |
| 23:34 | troy_s1 | Bertl, Did you get the highlight recovery issue based on my post?
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| 23:35 | troy_s1 | I honestly am unsure it is currently an issue. I'm sure you recall our profile generation issues that had problems at the higher end of the sensor due to some issues like this (and the sensor of course misbehaving)
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| 23:39 | Bertl | well, first, I don't think we can do much in this regard on the raw data (which we are mainly interested in, no?)
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| 23:40 | troy_s1 | I'm with you.
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| 23:40 | troy_s1 | The "highlight recovery" is really a problem as well.
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| 23:40 | Bertl | i.e. '255'(8bit) means '255' or over board :)
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| 23:40 | troy_s1 | In that we really have invalid data. I appreciate wanting to glean the most information from the thing, but when we are missing a channel or two, we really don't have any information there.
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| 23:40 | troy_s1 | Worse it is confusing the actual data quite significantly as being display referred. IE We have _no_ idea what the actual scene referred value is.
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| 23:41 | troy_s1 | Yep.
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| 23:41 | Bertl | shifting data down into the 8bit range is very problematic IMHO, and extending the bit size is something we can do in post anyway
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| 23:41 | troy_s1 | I wonder if there is a way that one could profile a sensor such that
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| 23:41 | troy_s1 | based on surrounding photosite ratios
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| 23:41 | troy_s1 | if we can "detect' if it is pinned
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| 23:41 | troy_s1 | Any ideas there?
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| 23:41 | troy_s1 | Or does that totally not make sense?
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| 23:41 | troy_s1 | (As in use the voltage spill and such?)
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| 23:42 | Bertl | nah, I think the best approach is to sacrifice a single value
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| 23:42 | troy_s1 | I completely agree with you 110% regarding the problematic aspect, and this is even vastly more massive for doing image manipulation. You actually have erroneous luminance values.
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| 23:42 | troy_s1 | Well yes. Avoid the damn pinned sensels.
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| 23:42 | Bertl | i.e. the highest possible value and call that 'overexposed'
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| 23:43 | troy_s1 | Yes. A debayered RGB triplet with a pinned channel value is technically undefined.
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| 23:43 | troy_s1 | I appreciate the desire to recover the other two but damn.
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| 23:43 | troy_s1 | It simply isn't a display referred ratio.
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| 23:45 | troy_s1 | God OpenCine is a bit of a ...
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| 23:45 | Bertl | I'm still not sure what T244 is about, is it to visualize post processing over exposure correction on the monitoring channel?
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| 23:45 | lab-bot | T244: image pipeline: highlight recovery - http://lab.apertus.org/T244
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| 23:45 | troy_s1 | I think it is a desire to try and make use of overexposed debayer
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| 23:46 | Bertl | but we don't debayer the raw data? :)
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| 23:46 | troy_s1 | But I'm unsure everyone grasps the implications entirely.
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| 23:46 | troy_s1 | Debayer / Bayer doesn't matter
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| 23:47 | Bertl | well, the raw data is the raw data, how to interpret is up to somebody else :)
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| 23:47 | troy_s1 | The essence seems to be an attempt to recover the unfilled photosites
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| 23:47 | troy_s1 | But in truth, the unfilled photosites around a filled set isn't data.
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| 23:47 | troy_s1 | LOL
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| 23:47 | troy_s1 | True. I'd hate to see this become some sort of "YES ZOMFG WE NEED THIS" and it ends up default.
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| 23:48 | troy_s1 | But also, the Beta isn't going to have raw. So :P
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| 23:48 | Bertl | oh yes, it is going to have raw :)
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| 23:49 | Bertl | but I guess I understand now what T244 is all about, it is not intended for the raw output only for the 'cooked' output
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| 23:50 | troy_s1 | How do you intend to do a debayer for view etc?
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| 23:50 | troy_s1 | Just pin all of the channels?
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| 23:50 | troy_s1 | And call it display referred white?
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| 23:50 | Bertl | that hasn't been decided yet, the first stage will be similar to the Alpha (poor man's debayer)
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| 23:55 | troy_s1 | Even the poor man's needs to make a decision on the pinned bins no?
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| 23:55 | Bertl | no
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| 23:56 | Bertl | we currently just combine 4 sensel and call it a day
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| 23:56 | troy_s1 | That ends up with completely batsh*t colors when they have pinned bins no?
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| 23:57 | Bertl | somewhat yes, that's why we have the second stage clipping active after color transformation
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| 06:01 | Bertl | off to bed now ... have a good one everyone!
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| 06:01 | Bertl | changed nick to: Bertl_zZ
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| 11:10 | HAL-1999 | joined the channel |
| 11:11 | HAL-1999 | Hello guys. Anyone here?
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| 11:15 | HAL-1999 | I'd like to try to contribute to the case design and other mechanical stuff if possible. What do I need to do to catch up with the current work?
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| 11:16 | HAL-1999 | From the video I gather there is a manufacturing company that did the prototype. Are there any CAD files available?
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| 11:18 | mars_ | the best way is to talk to se6astian|away or Bertl_zZ (both are away right now) and to take a look at http://lab.apertus.org/
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| 11:21 | HAL-1999 | I was lurking there for the last two weeks but there are very few things about the mechanical aspect. I'd like to meet the team and start doing work.
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| 13:03 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
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| 13:03 | se6astian | good day
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| 13:03 | se6astian | hi HAL-1999!
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| 13:04 | se6astian | We built the prototype ourselves
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| 13:04 | se6astian | laser cut acrylic glass enclosure :)
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| 13:05 | se6astian | The AXIOM Beta related CAD files are here: https://github.com/apertus-open-source-cinema/beta-hardware/tree/master/Enclosure/Version%20002
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| 13:06 | se6astian | currently designed in Inventor but I can export STP, IGES, etc.
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| 13:14 | se6astian | email me if you have more questions, apertus.org/contact
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| 13:14 | se6astian | gotta go to a CAD design meeting for the enclosure :)
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| 13:14 | se6astian | changed nick to: se6astian|away
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| 13:24 | HAL-1999 | thaks se6astian I'll try to import these in solidworks.
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| 13:24 | HAL-1999 | Was there any discussion about the modularity of the enclosure? This is kinda my expertise...
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| 13:25 | HAL-1999 | Also if there is a meeting I'm interested.
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| 13:34 | Bertl_zZ | changed nick to: Bertl
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| 13:35 | Bertl | morning folks!
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| 13:36 | HAL-1999 | hi
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| 13:36 | Bertl | HAL-1999: it is very likely the "local" meeting of the ergonomics group (or similar)
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| 13:36 | HAL-1999 | oh.. ok.
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| 13:36 | Bertl | so unless you are in Austria (nearby Vienna) it won't be easy to be there
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| 13:36 | HAL-1999 | I'm trying to get up to speed
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| 13:37 | Bertl | but I'm sure your input is very appreciated
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| 13:37 | HAL-1999 | Well, I'm working on my own thing which also include a modular stacking design
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| 13:38 | HAL-1999 | it has similar form factor too, but nothing I've put online yet
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| 13:38 | Bertl | so maybe get started with that and show your designs?
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| 13:40 | HAL-1999 | Yes this will happen in time.
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| 13:42 | HAL-1999 | The thing is, if my project and the Appertus camera happen to be similar enough mechanically there might be some benefit in defining a common form factor.
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| 13:42 | HAL-1999 | This would be especially beneficial to science folks
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| 13:42 | HAL-1999 | especially the scientific imaging people
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| 13:43 | Bertl | maybe
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| 13:45 | HAL-1999 | I have no idea where you guys stand on this of course.
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| 13:46 | HAL-1999 | I'd like to present some work which we can talk on.
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| 13:46 | Bertl | very much depends on your "project" and the common form factor, I guess ...
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| 13:48 | HAL-1999 | There are many form factors out there, some of which are not even open source and the ones which are open source do not play very well with each other
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| 13:49 | HAL-1999 | And all of them deal purely with PCB form factors. There is nothing much mechanicak out there
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| 13:50 | HAL-1999 | Ecept the 19" rack, the optical bench assemblies and a few others.
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| 13:50 | HAL-1999 | I am researching a way to bring all these together in an open source form factor
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| 13:57 | HAL-1999 | Here is some conceptual work done by NASA in 95
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| 13:58 | HAL-1999 | http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/30351/1/95-0940.pdf?origin=publicationDetail
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| 13:58 | HAL-1999 | It shows some aspects for modular (stacked) electronic equipment
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| 13:59 | HAL-1999 | Some of the ideas there have been implemented commercially
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| 13:59 | HAL-1999 | I think we could do it better justice in the open source community
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| 14:07 | Bertl | looking forward to see how you map that to a camera
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| 14:10 | HAL-1999 | I believe it is possible. In the prototype ypu already show a modular assembly with components stacked behind the sensor module.
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| 14:10 | HAL-1999 | Not only possible but it could ve cheap to produce too
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| 14:11 | HAL-1999 | There was something about you looking for a CNC mill?
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| 14:12 | Bertl | correct
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| 14:12 | HAL-1999 | Have you looked into Deckel-MAHO machines? They are quite local to your area and should be available cheaply. Many people convert them to CNC and use them in production..
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| 14:13 | Bertl | we decided to go for the Tormach
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| 14:13 | Bertl | but you might want to add that with a link to the wiki for future reference
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| 14:14 | HAL-1999 | Deckel FP1 would be perfectly suitable. They are excellent machines.
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| 14:15 | HAL-1999 | Would do, thanks.
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| 15:17 | se6astian|away | changed nick to: se6astian
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| 15:42 | Bertl | changed nick to: Bertl_oO
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| 15:48 | se6astian | HAL-1999: you still around?
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| 15:48 | HAL-1999 | yes I'm here
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| 15:48 | HAL-1999 | looking at the files
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| 15:48 | se6astian | ah great
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| 15:49 | se6astian | let me know if you have any questions
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| 15:49 | se6astian | the current concept is at the bottom of https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php?title=Ergonomics_Workgroup
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| 15:49 | se6astian | it plans the IO modules to be plugged in with two PCIe connectors
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| 15:50 | HAL-1999 | I do have a few questions actually. There are two PCBs with a cut out. I suppose they stay besides the lens mount. What are they for?
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| 15:51 | se6astian | you mean the rounded centers?
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| 15:52 | se6astian | https://wiki.apertus.org/index.php?title=File:PCBModuleLeft01.jpg
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| 15:53 | HAL-1999 | yes that one
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| 16:00 | se6astian | that is obsolete and not part of the current assembly anymore
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| 16:01 | HAL-1999 | Ok, glad to hear that.
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| 16:02 | HAL-1999 | What about the PCIe? Does that require a license?
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| 16:12 | HAL-1999 | PCI-SIG says "Your company must be a member of this organization for you to gain access to the members area of this site."
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| 16:13 | HAL-1999 | So I can't even download the spec to see if it requires a licence or not -_-
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| 16:13 | HAL-1999 | I presume it requires at least a membership fee.
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| 16:16 | HAL-1999 | which appears to be 3000$ annually
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| 16:16 | se6astian | we are not doing PCie
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| 16:16 | se6astian | we just use a PCIe connector
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| 16:17 | HAL-1999 | Oh, ok sorry.
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| 16:18 | HAL-1999 | What is the communications bus then?
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| 16:19 | se6astian | LVDS
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| 16:19 | se6astian | no bus
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| 16:19 | se6astian | just all spare IO lines routed to the PCie connector
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| 16:20 | HAL-1999 | Hmm interesting
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| 16:20 | troy_s | se6astian: How goes the housing iterations at the meetings?
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| 16:25 | HAL-1999 | Have you looked at PC/104e ? Their licencing is quite open as far as I remember and they provide a bus. Not sure if it is up to the task though, might be worth checking out.
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| 16:32 | HAL-1999 | Correct name is PCIe/104 actually --- http://www.pc104.org/pci104e_specs.php
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| 17:18 | se6astian | we did look at PC104 but see no immediate application here
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| 17:18 | se6astian | troy_s: good good, but not what you are expecting currently I guess
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| 17:18 | se6astian | we are building a 3d printed fixture for the very first prototype
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| 17:18 | se6astian | not really an "enclosure" yet
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| 17:19 | Bertl_oO | changed nick to: Bertl
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| 17:19 | Bertl | back now ...
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| 17:20 | HAL-1999 | I only mention PC/104 because it has established component stacking.
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| 17:21 | HAL-1999 | All similar form factors require a backplane or something similar to function, which limits the size.
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| 17:21 | HAL-1999 | PC/104 can expand by stacking boards without a backplane.
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| 17:38 | lab-bot | sebastian-test committed rBH0c163dec7811: added updated cmosis datasheets (authored by sebastian-test).
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| 18:08 | troy_s | se6astian: I don't really have any expectations to be honest. I just was looking at the cupboard and trying to estimate where / why it goes that direction
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| 18:11 | troy_s | (By the way, I think the larger housing adapter is helluva clever if it manages to meet the needs of its existence.)
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| 20:37 | se6astian | troy_s: the concepts are going in a lot of different directions, basically anyone having an idea can pursue it
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| 20:37 | se6astian | some concepts might never make it to actually being built
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| 20:37 | se6astian | but there is no dictation what people should/shouldnt do
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| 20:38 | troy_s | se6astian: I think you and I agree that the designs for the Cupboard aren't neutral (good thing â„¢)
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| 20:38 | troy_s | se6astian: Cupboard is definitely moving forward I hope?
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| 21:37 | se6astian | if christoph is motivated and receives good feedback I guess he will continue yes :)
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| 22:30 | Topic | apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | join the apertus° Lab: http://lab.apertus.org/ | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
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| 22:30 | se6astian | has set the topic |
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| 22:56 | Topic | apertus° - open source cinema | www.apertus.org | join the apertus° Lab: http://lab.apertus.org/ | IRC Logs available at: http://irc.apertus.org
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